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December 8, 2010 by dignity
Using the new Earth & Steel book from Flames of War, Karl goes through a 1750pt army list for the Axis powers.
cool and interesting vid. I know nothing about FoW so I can’t really say what to add.
Nice Vid. Could you guys post your list. It would be really handy for those of us learning the game. Thanks
couldnt see a link to the list-but here is what I would suggest with the 70 points left over(and not having my books with me right now not sure exactley what force options are available for Panzer Kompanies as I 80% of my lists tend to be infantry lists)
how many of the quad 20mm do you have? 2 or 3? if its 3 you may want to think of downgrading to 2 vehicles BUT upgrading them to 37mm AA vehicles. The 37mm has a much better chance of knocking down any flying tank aircraft you may run across and if your oppoents are anything like mine…they will spend the few extra points to upgrade thier aircraft to the flying tank versions
the 37mm also makes a real good infantry killer if you run into dug in infantry positions. The higher firepower comes in real handy
Surely dropping the trucks defeats the purpose of them being Panzergrenadiers? You could use the 70pts to give them some Half-tracks. Never underestimate the hitting power of the Armoured Assault rule.
From a theme point, the Germans were on the defensive for the most part. Trucks (of any kind) were also not widely common to the German forces in France. The real advantage to taking the Infantry as PZ Grens is that they are rated as MG teams instead of Rilfe/MG. The firepower is the same on the move, but the Pz Grens have more defensively. In a list like this, you are going to be counting on that platoon to defend at least one objective.
I would agree with steelwhip, swap the 2cm AA for 3.7cm. It is not only the firepower that is a bonus, the 2cm guns only have 16″ range vs 24″ for the 3.7cm guns. It allows you to cover a lot more real estate.
Another option would be to swap out the 12.5cm guns for some Nebelwerfers. Artillery in the German lists has always been far more expensive than it is worth, the once exception being Nebelwerfers…which have always been fantastic value. Truth be told, you could probably get 4 Panzerwerfer 42s for similar points as 4 12.5cm guns. and with the cheap crew upgrades your Panzerwerfer 42s are counted as an 8 gun battery.
The 503rd’s only other AA option is 88′s. And 4 Panzerwerfer 42s are the same points as the 12.5 cm guns plus 20 points to add extra crew, and then the ability to remove smoke trails. So that would be a good trade. So 50 points left, so drop the 1 flak halfrak and the Panzerfaust from he panzergrens and I can afford a 2 squad Schwere Panzer Pioneer Platoon. Handy for clearing obstacles and assaulting heavy armour like Churchills, but not Crocs.
@fawlkes: I think you would need armoured half-tracks to make a successfull mounted assault not trucks right?
@steelwhip, I thought that only the russian sturmovik and the german Henschel 129B were flying tanks. If this is taking place in normandy then you will be facing western allied airpower all of which are not flying tanks.. correct me if Im wrong but I saw nothing in the british or american arsenals that are noted flying tanks or have the option to upgrade to flying tanks.
I think the combination Karl has laid out has most of his bases covered. I would change out the Panzergrenadiers with a panzer pioneer platoon and give them armoured half-tracks. I would also upgrade the scout platoon with assault rifles so they can assist in the assault after they have thwarted any ambushes.
If your Artillery and panzergrens are coming on the table as reinforcements then you are going to have to wait for them. With a small force like this I would much rather have as many fast hitting units availble on turn 1 as possible.
@souldier you make a good point..IF this list if for only a normandy style action and only facing off against Amis or Brits then you wont be facing off against flying tanks (my groups has such an eclectic batch of players we often times have odd matchups…german on german…..russian on american…so I always try to form my lists on potental opponents.) I would still recomend taking the 37mm as the range is greater (as blitzer pointed out) but is a moot point as the 37s are not options for this list(odd that infantry lists can get the upgraded AA but Panzer lists cant)
I would second the option of upgrading the scouts to assault rifles-they make a great little assault group for clearing out any light oposition you come up against 15 dice of fire even if they moved can pin alot of targets softening them up for an assault.
and Im a big fan of the Maulter 42s-they are not armor killers like 125s and 155s but it doesnt cost much to get them to an 8 gun battery and that gives you a double wide template and I have found that to be great for hitting infantry positions(they tend to be spread out) and gives you a chance to hit more targets.
You can also lay a LOT of smoke down if you need to. When you only have a rather small force to start with, sometime your greatest weapon is simply denying the enemy a chance to shoot effectively.
Sure the 15cm rockets are not great against armor, but then you have a few Tigers and a Tiger II to deal with that (is a somewhat limited volume capacity).
Recived my book today after a 10 day delay, (snow & post man) delighted with them both i have a massive 1944 army and the book is deserving attentions, different points and some new add’s, that few tanks will get wasted unless in ambush, more tanks, art and AA, i have played with 5 tigers in 1750 many time they work only if you balance it out or air and enemy art will destroy you wholesale…King tigers are scary but will destroy 2 enemy tanks per turn if lucky 3 is stood, if the enemy player does his hard work he wont engage you with his tanks at all and you will be over run.. (my thoughts and experiance only) pic of some of my Germans http://shadowking-shadowkings.blogspot.com/2010/07/flames-of-war-army-complete.html
Some nice looking figs there shadowking1957, any close ups? I agree that big cat lists are hard to use, and ignoring them is a sound tactic. (Only faced them so far.) Winning a free for all on turn 2 with 7th Armoureds Stuarts was a bit cheeky, but there was no way I was going toe to toe.
WE started FOW and being long time WW” players with other systems we were confused by a stuart comp army we saw 3 years a go, well my long time gaming buddy and i now agree Stuarts win battles, a tiger hits and destroys a Stuart as easy as a Sherman, objective takers and enough machine guns to take on infantry. Close ups of my huge Russian army, i must lay them out like the Germans. http://shadowking-shadowkings.blogspot.com/2010/05/flames-of-war-game-may2010.html http://shadowking-shadowkings.blogspot.com/2010/09/fow-6000-point-side-game-at-maelstrom.html http://shadowking-shadowkings.blogspot.com/2010/10/flames-of-war-russians-and-big-tank.html thanks for looking Tony
Has the list been posted yet I am looking forward to it.
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