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Know a story from the imperium, tell it here!
Got a question about the background to Warhammer 40k? Your in the right place.
If a space marine’s gene seed is matured inside 10 years of implantation (5 years for neck progenoid and 10 for chest) then why do authors continually describe this image of apothecaries running across the battle collecting gene seed from decades (or centuries) old marines? Surely the gene seed would be removed during the marines time as a scout at the latest?
If the gene seed (my theory) is removed when the marine was a scout then he would have no knowledge from the more veteran space marine that cam before him and because the gene seed was removed that early then the problem is that if a new aspirant wants to join the ranks the the gene seed that is implanted will have very little knowledge for ten new aspirant.
The one in the neck is in such a place as to allow its removal any time after maturity, the chest progenoid is behind both the black carapace, and the Marine’s ribs- which by then are more like plate mail than the cage form we’re used to- so removal would more than likely kill a marine.
I’d suggest that possibly more than one progenoid could be implanted into the neck to provide more marines in a shorter time, but the Imperium and the Codex Astartes 100×10+change limit on numbers would forbid this out of paranoia, IE if the marines could double their strength every decade or so, what’s to stop another heresy if one of the more respected chapter masters twigs he has enough marines to take terra and a much better way to run the galaxy than the high lords?
@cazboab said: IE if the marines could double their strength every decade or so, what’s to stop another heresy if one of the more respected chapter masters twigs he has enough marines to take terra and a much better way to run the galaxy than the high lords?
lets face it if they would …they could’ve already. There are more then 1000 spacemarine chapters each with round about 1000 marines that alone is 5 times more Marines then back in the days of the Heresy ^^
+ the fact that todays spacemarines aren’t only crusading chapters/warriors but own star systems and whole sectors with millions – if not billions – of imperial guardsmen and huge production facilities ( capable of building mile long ships and mile high titans) at their service – that are more likely to follow the command of the gods they can touch and see in person when they say its the emperors will ( aka their ruling SM chapter ) then some guys on a planet so far away that they’ll probably never see it in their lifetime (aka the senate of terra on terra )
my humble opinion ^^ Seb
I didn’t mean marines in general, I meant in one chapter, as it is no single chapter can have enough force to take terra, if every single marine in every company of every chapter went along with it then yes, around a million marines + the regiments of home worlds would be an almost unstoppable force, but due to the indoctrination and religious fervour of the imperial cult it would be nigh impossible, at the very least the more zealous chapters such as the Black Templars would fight back, ad to that the dark angels and space wolves animosity, one chosing a side could be enough to decide the other’s allegiance, then there’s the Ultramarines and all the chapters that call Guilliman their Primarch, almost none of them would oppose Calgar, unless he’s obviously tainted of compromised in some way- one fanfic I saw had the second heresy sparked off by his death- he’d rally all, or enough as to make no difference, of the marines of Ultramarine decent to whichever side he’s on that it could split the marines in half before most of the galaxy was aware of a revolt.
Plus the marines of any chapter are spread out over a sector in company strength block at best, and that’s were the limits in the codex prevent the revolt killing a whole chapter(or more) with brute force is difficult because you simply can’t bring enough to bare at them to do the job once they’re dug in and supported by their fleets, but a company could be wiped out. The limitations on numbers of marines isn’t to prevent their being enough marines in the galaxy to take it over, its to stop there being enough marines with allegiance to the same chapter master in one place to get that snowball rolling long enough to reach the critical mass that would allow them to be a significant threat. Look at the badab war, the loyal forces were able to move quickly and isolate the Astral claws and their allies before they were able to draw in more chapters to their cause, which many chapters might have supported had the war gone on long enough or had Lufgt Huron been a more popular chapter master it could have been a much larger conflict.
still, think about chapters like the Blood Angels ( one that is very close to the emperor as a being not to the Imperium of Mankind as such) in the Armageddon Wars multiple chapters bowed down to the lead of Dante in no time including stubborn leaders such as Logan Grimnar as well ( though given that was a totally different situation ^^ ). So the situation that one chapter would attack on its own probably never occurs, as all chapters do would pick a side and not all of them would choose the Imperium I guess.
And the Ultramarines you mentioned is the best possible guess for that to happen as they have a lot of chapters that specifically own their loyalty to them and would follow their lead in no time no matter what. They could easily mass up dozens of chapters and actually thats the point here if one of the 9 main chapters really would plan this out they could put this through before the rest of the Imperium could respond to that threat. It would take at least one year if not more to gather their forces enough time for a strike ( planned out long before) to be successful
And many chapters are known for not taking any orders whatsoever from the senate ( its mentioned several times in many publications that Space Marines decide mostly on their own what to do and where to operate ) which as such is a strong sign where their loyalties are bound , which clearly isn’t the Imperium as an institution but as an idea (an idea solely bound to the Emperor ), it wouldn’t be the same as in times of the Heresy but still there would be dozens of different scenarios where this could mass up to a huge threat in no time , the sole reason this isn’t happening is because GW would have to deal with the aftermath story-wise and thats not gonna happen ( and seriously, as long as Mat Ward is working there we really do not WANT that to happen either )
that brings me to that Badab War scenario…I personally think that this isn’t necessarily a paragon for how things (WOULD) work in the Warhammer 40K universe … as GW ( or in this case its branch Forgeworld) tries desperately to keep the status quo for as long as possible
– they (GW) would have to make rather drastic changes maybe with a blunt step like some chapters/armies disappearing at all because they would simply be wiped out of existing in such a large scale War
- they (GW) would actually have to decide which SIDE THEY ARE ON because after a huge step like this they would have to give a face to the remaining factions, plot them out give them a reason to be and so on + they suddenly would have to deal with a more diverse background. For now basically Warhammer 40 000 is just the story of the Imperium and its struggle to survive, most visuals and stories are connected to the Imperium its basically most of the existing background and the pivot of the Warhammer 40 000 branch, the other races are somewhat like the antagonists to the Imperium after all
SURE they do each have their own motivations and background and from a story point of view thats not the exact truth but from a marketing and branding point of view this is basically it.
It would be a shift in emphasis to change that running system and I guess they simply don’t know how to deal with it . I think their main problem is that over the past 25 years they created such a strong and firm imagine of what the imperium is that Warhammer 40K simply BECAME that image. I mean heck the Aquila is even their company sign ^^
So changing that would be a huge ( that word is not enough to describe it ^^ ) risk in maybe losing a big chunk of their audience if not executed right on spot and with a lot of preparation and thinking beforehand.
In this light they OF COURSE had to make the Badab War a threat that after some billion deaths was dealt with with the Imperium being the victor.
I think the basic here is : never touch a running system. Which keeps them from changing things. They have to stick to it even to a point where it starts to get implausible i.e. :
most of the background concerning the Imperium tells us that its a unimaginably huge thing ( in terms of worlds, distances, the number of people in it – literally billions of billions – where decisions and requests sometimes take years if not decades to be processed , where most parts mind their own damn business or aren’t in contact with any other authority of the Imperium for hundreds of years whatsoever
STILL every war story they present to us reads the same :”OME !!! ( standing for “Oh my Emperor!” ) A HUGE FUCKING THREAT ! that could easily wipe out entire Star Systems if not a whole sector !!! ” ………” FEAR NOT ! For a dozen Spacemarine chapters and hundreds of IG regiments are on their way helping you arriving after pretty much no time !” turning the war around . But lets face it: in reality ….the might of the warp alone could wipe out the Empire in no time …( again : 13 failed Black Crusades anyone ? ) not speaking about the Tyranids or the Orks here or the Necrons or whatever …seriously the problem is all is pointing towards a change but it simply never happens due to GW fearing the outcome ( which is a purely business related thing ) ….and thats why they come up with stories like the Badab War, the 13th Black Crusade, Armageddon ( which simply are in part contradictory to other parts of their background the way they are handled and presented) …literally the Imperium won every single one of these conflicts but always GW had to add ” but it was a close one and that sector/star system/planet will remain a flash point ! ” to keep that feeling of constant pressure alive …… lets say that just happens once a year in one spot of the Imperium …that would make at least round about 20 000 such flash points for the time the Imperium exist …(each one of them binding millions of soldiers, thousands of tanks, several Spacemarine chapters, Titan Legions, fleets and what not )….but lets face it counting in the sheer number of threats in that universe it would have to be hundreds of thousands if not millions of flash points and honestly the Imperium of Men should be at an end by now. ….and thats just the ” flash points” not talking about a full blown warzone here …because lets face it even a flash point has a different scale in this universe.
my two cents ^^ Seb
P.S. if it sounds confusing then its due to me having trouble to properly convey some points because of simply lacking some words and/or terms/ structure of sentences. so ….sorry for that ^^
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