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Anything from the Warp. Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Khorne
So to branch off from the Tau discussion group, they started a fun thread about what players would and would not like to see in the next codex. So what would the Chaos Daemon community like to see in the next codex?
Off the top of my head.
1. Ability added under ability “Daemon” called “Warp Assault”, this allows Daemons who have deepstriked to assault in the same turn. 2. Beasts of Nurgle changed to “Beast” 3. Beasts of Nurgle recieve ability called “Lumbering Beast”, must roll 3D6 to determine movement distance. 4. Daemon Prince “Flight” changed from 60 points to 30 points 5. Daemon Prince “Iron Hide” changed from 30 points to 20 points 6. New ability to purchase for 40 points by all Greater Daemons, “Unholy Speed”, if no initative inhibating abilities are used against the Daemon, the Daemon strikes out at blinding speed allowing it to always attack first in assault (assumed initative 10). 7. Great Unclean One receives “Consumer of Souls”, this is a 6″ ranged attack, if the target is hit, it must test to see if the Great Unclean One eats its soul. Take a Toughness Test, if failed, the foes Soul is consumed and the GUO can take 1D6 to regerate 1 Wound. 8. One Bloodletter can buy “Bad Blood” for 15pts. Everytime it recieves a wound in assault, its attacker must also take a wound.
Chaos Daemon Start Changes
1. Battle of the Gods- During the “Random Roll” to decide which half goes through first, declare which half you wish to go first and roll. If you failed, you can choose to Battle the Gods. Each unit in the chosen side of the army must take a leadership test with a LD of 8 and fearless does not apply. If they pass, their battle has torn the warp wider letting them through. All units that pass their leadership test must deepstrike on the 2nd turn.
2. Warp Tear- A Chaos Daemon player may purchase a single “Warp Tear” at the beginning of the game for 80 points. A Warp Tear can be placed anywhere on the board during the deployment phase but must scatter to determine final placement. During the beginning of any round, a Chaos Player can use the Warp Tear to deploy a single MC, independent charater, or single unit within 6″ of it. This comes at a cost however as Warp energy is unstable. At the beginning of every turn, the Chaos Player must dedicate a unit or character to use the Warp Tear and place it within 6″ to simulate them emerging from the warp. They must then roll 1D6 to determine the status of the Warp Tear. On 1-3, the Warp Tear becomes highly unstable pulling in the very souls of any unit (friend or foe) within 10″ of it dealing 1 wound to all in its radius, no saves of any type allowed, this includes emerging Daemons. On a 4-6 the Warp Tear is stable and its horrific energy radiates, all daemons within 10″ gain +1 to attacks, all enemies within 10″ must take a leadership test.
How about more shooty units that can do damage to armour
The ability of assaulting on the turn that you deep strike would be of great benefit. Maybe if you could do it when deep striking beside an iocn bearer as the unit would be more “guided” by it. It would also allow players to play more tactially. The beast of nurgle would be a beast but it would still have to be slow and purposeful. Although I think it should have 3 wounds. Flight should be cheaper although iron hide seems fair enough. The whole random deep strike is off putting with daemons at the minute but the most annoying thing is the risk in deep striking all your units and rolling on the misshap table. Space marines have drop pods and nids have spore things as a relative cheep and risk free transport. Daemons should also have something similar like a warp transport thing to get a unit or two in close and safely on turn 1.
That’s what developed my thought of a “warp tear” its similar to a drop pod or a mycetic spore but it has several big differences that fit in line with Chaos Daemons power and randomness.
1. If you choose to use one, you MUST send 1 unit through each turn its not a choice.
2. After the daemons start to emerge from the Warp you have to see if its stable or not meaning it could kill the daemons you send through or any that are within its reach. However this also goes for your opponent.
3. If it is stable, and you have units near it, they get a stats bonus and it can scare away foes.
The chaos Icons are handy…I don’t leave the Warp without them since they can be used at all times as long as the unit is still alive. The ability to deepstrike without the worry of scatterdeath is without a second thought a great ability. However its rather dumb that daemons cannot assault on the turn they deepstrike since deepstriking is already a massive risk
How about an upgrade for a bloodletter in the form of a spear that can be thrown with the following profile 12″ s8 ap2 assault 1 lance
@akblu convince me to get into daemons they do look like fun if somewhat suicidal sometimes a lot of it seems to come down to chance
I think you just need to give all the units more daemonic gifts to choose from. Anti-vehicle powers for Tzeentch units and plenty of stuff for the other gods. If you look at the daemon unit entries we have maybe 2 or 3 gifts/options for our units while other armies have huge armories and their basic units can be customized extensively. I want that for our unit leaders not just a guy who can take bolt, maybe even allow more than one guy to take the anti-vehicle option per squad.
A lot of this thread is horrendous wish-listing.
Honestly, the Chaos Daemons codex needs very few changes. Removing the “deciding the waves” roll in Daemonic Assault would be a good start. Lowering the points on a Daemon Prince’s wings to 20pts like the CSM codex would be much needed. As is returning the Furies to S5.
Another thing would be not having a Codex Chaos Daemons and instead having Codex Chaos, where you can have Chaos Daemons, Space Marines, Renegades, mutants and Cultists in the one army. If you take Heralds you can’t take any CSM but you can deep strike without using Icons etc.
@maxwelledison said: How about an upgrade for a bloodletter in the form of a spear that can be thrown with the following profile 12″ s8 ap2 assault 1 lance
Death Strike already does that…
Ooh cool I must get there book and see what they are like and maybe buy a hq choice, what should I choose as my general? I quite like the skulltaker model, from th games I have seen them used in daemons look a bit like they get shot to pieces whilst trying to get across the board so maybe get something to counter this maybe something similar in it’s workings to a monolith
A monolith type vehicle would not exist. I’d proxy a game with Daemons before committing to buying an army. I’ve heard that fiends are the best unit for taking on a castling enemy.
No one said this was a “This is what’s in the next codex” thread. Have you seen the Tau version thread of this? You get people in there saying Kroot should be riding around on knarlocs that instant kill and all crisis suits should be epic in melee Its just a fun thread to see what we can generate and hope for.
Besides, I doubt they will ever go back to daemons and CSM in one book. That would belike removing the Grey Knights book because “It doesn’t belong since they are a space marine faction” :O Space marines have the most variety and sub groups, and Chaos is actually 2 levels itself. You have Chaos Space Marines which are worshipers of the Warp and all its horrific entities and then you have the actual Daemon armies. Two different things.
Davian cool is right in that a Daemon Prince can take deathstrike which is just a whip that does the same thing. However you suggest that for a Bloodletter unit which would be excellent anti-tank for them!
I originally played Tyranids which was all melee and then Tau which is all Shooty (still do and love’m) but then recently caught a glance of Chaos Daemons since I wanted another army that didn’t in some way involve space marines. They caught my eye cause they are extremely colorful but because they look vastly different from anything else in 40k. Playing them is the same way. Yes, you’re right max that its about chance, which is why many people don’t like to play chaos daemons. This is because you only can start with 1/2 of your army and all of it must deepstrike on the first turn. Really its not that bad. If you balance out your army well enough this removes the starting problem and if you have atleast 1 unit in either half carry a chaos icon of some sort then they become mobile spawn points essentially.
The thing is that Daemons start like this because of two words, “over powered”. If you look at each unit, all of them are rediculously powerful, I mean your basic troops either are extremely tough and have feel no pain, or they can be lightning fast and rend, or they can be average speed but weild power weapons.
However if you start getting into the Greater Daemons, these guys are nasty as hell. I pitted my chaos Daemon Prince of Khorne against 30 ork choppas and won If that sounds far fetched, my flamers of tzeentch (flying, screaming, laughing, singing, flamethrowers) have zipped out of deepstrike and killed scores of foes in their first round of shooting. Or say even my slowest daemon, the Great unclean one, he lumbers along and is painfully slow…but he never ever ever dies but if you get into assault, he destroys.
Daemons are a lot of fun and wildly different from any army ive seen or played, but yes they can be a tad frustrating if you just don’t have the dice rolls with you. However even in games that go completely sour are still a blast to play since you drag so many enemies back to the warp with you.
Honestly if you want to get into Chaos Daemons I would read the codex, there are a lot of different HQ choices and each is very special. There are two types really, Greater Daemons, which are all monstrous creatures that tower above all, and then there are Heralds. Heralds are smaller versions that aren’t as powerful but the advantage is that 2 heralds can be taken as 1 HQ choice allowing you to be more flexible and have 1 herald like skulltaker to get into the thick of things while you have another like the blue scribes zap people from afar.
It sounds like you are heading in the direction of Khorne, which are mind blowing in assault and is definitely fun to play, but get the codex and read up a lot on them first. There are a few ways to play I found. The first is mono god, meaning you only take units from one particular god. Its great because you become uber powerful in one aspect of the game, but thats also its downfall to that style. The second is power struggle (my fav) which is when you select two different gods and get 500pts of each, Khorne and Tzeentch would be great for example. The last is mixed bag, its basically as if all gods decided to send as much stuff into reality to claim as many lives/land as they could. This list is the most balanced to play and can tackle anything but you won’t be rediculously powerful as if you specialized in a mono god.
Hope that helps!
Yea, well and that’s what this thread is basically about, to discuss what we all think would be neat and fun additions to the Chaos Daemons. I agree that tzeentch should really be the anti-tank daemons of the lot. But definitely having more options would be great! I always thought it would be neat to give Tzeentch a ability called “Chaotic Reality”, during the shooting phase the character with this ability could shoot it at a unit, if it hits that unit is switches places with another unit of the Chaos Players choice. Oh god! Terminators with powerhammers! (Zot!) Op, nm just some scouts.
Mobility isn’t an issue with Chaos Daemons as you can deepstrike in someones face. However you do get shot up pretty fast which is the problem with it since you can’t assault in deepstrike. The best way to get around this is use Nurgle units. Nurgle units are meant to be shot and can take a LOT of firepower before going down. Deepstrike these guys in someones face or on an objective between your foe and the rest of your daemons and it helps a fair amount.
Again though, if you are interested max, read the codex and then pop on here what you think is good and I can help ya put together a fun list.
The only issue I see with chaotic reality is that you wouldn’t be able to exactly replace the models moved.(position and numbers being the issue) Also people already complain when we use pavaane and lash. Many chaos units are very powerful though I’d say that parts of Slaanesh and Nurgle are lacking in comparison to other armies. Genestealers are better at what they do than daemonettes and Plague marines are basically beefed up plaguebearers. And of course there’s the few units that are never used because they’re terrible at doing anything like screamers and beasts of Nurgle. Those units need lots of help. Personally I’d like to see screamers turn into something like dark eldar jetbikes (basically what they are in fantasy).
I like the idea of plaguebearers and bloodletters with some support from horrors and a soul grinder I would like to take skulltaker on a juggernaut too that seems like it would be pretty hardcore
The codex needs choice over using deepstrike or not, and then, if you do choose it you should be able to assault afterward.
At the moment this is the biggest hinderance. Yes, you can buy icons to get around it but that defeats the object.
OK, I get the ‘chaos’ element. If I wanted a gun line I’d play Imperial Guard (which I do). Deepstrike is too random. You lose units due to bad dice rolls, not bad choices. Perhaps if the rules stated that you didn’t lose a unit, but any 5-6 was a ‘off the talbe until next turn’, or you lose one model from the unit.
I like the ‘which half’ idea. I find it annoying that you could be facing your entire opponents army with only half of yours while he’s had three turns to dig in and prepare kill zones/spread out to hinder DS (which is perfectly legitimate!) so you’re either playing completely defensively or aggressively and hoping you roll well.
I played against a Dark Eldar player over the weekend – furiously good gamer. Thing is, by turn three, after his witches were fighting my ‘Letters he’d arranged his Kabalites in a semi circle behind cover so I could only deepstrike in front of him or off table/into dangerous terrain. Excellent strategy, but as he said “boring” to play against.
In short, Daemons prevent you planning, they avoid tactics and sometimes just aren’t fun to play as you’re more at the whim of your own dice than your opponent. What sort of a game is that for either player?
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