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MIDWAY NAVAL THREAD – Add Your Own Naval Awesomeness! (204 posts)

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  • Avatar Image oriskany10853p said 2 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Greetings, Beasts of War!

    Okay, with the Midway 75th Anniversary article series up and running, I’d like to start our traditional “parallel thread” in the forums. The purpose of the thread is to present much of the material that wouldn’t fit in the front-page article series.

    More importantly, these forum threads allow more participation from the community, because here you can post your OWN photos, maps, games, references, links to documentaries and TV shows, and all other manner of input on the Battle of Midway, or Naval wargaming in general!

    For now, here are some great photos sent to me by @ecclesiastes (Hendrik Jan) for the Midway series, photos which sadly could not be included in the front page article series (there’s only so much room, after all).

    The initial Japanese carrier-based air strike coming in on Midway Island. Please remember that each stand represents 6 aircraft! In all, the Japanese hit Midway with over 100 aircraft that morning.

    A few Marine Corps fighters try to stem the Japanese fleet, badly outnumbered, and flying obsolete F2F Brewster Buffalo fighters.

    The first dice are thrown . . .

    The Japanese aircraft cards for this period of World War II.

    Meanwhile, add your own! Photos you find on the net, your own battles, your own ships!

    These don’t have to be about Midway in particular!

    Pirates, Vikings, ironclads, ships of the line, WW2 cruisers and battleships!

    Any naval wargaming is more than welcome!

    So let’s “weigh anchor” and “raise steam” . . . the Beasts of War Naval Thread is underway!

    August 6, 1777240th Anniversary – The Battle of Oriskany – New York / Saratoga Campaign, American Revolution
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  • Avatar Image oriskany10853p said 2 months, 2 weeks ago:

    The Beasts of War Naval Thread continues!

    American aircraft for “Naval War” – as presented by @ecclesiastes.
    Be sure to check out this game at https://www.naval-war.com/

    The two carriers of American Task Force 16, USS Hornet and the immortal USS Enterprise.

    Japanese cruisers and two destroyers.

    The “Kido Butai” – Japanese Carrier Striking Force at Midway. Clearly visible are the Japanese carriers Akagi, Kaga, Soryu,and Hiryu. Two battleships (Haruna and Kirishima) and a screen of cruisers and destroyers are also visible.

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  • Avatar Image jamesevans140832p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    Great start to the traditional side thread @oriskany. Unlike previous threads we are not going to see both sides full force going for it on the same table. Perhaps some small non historical battles without the carriers are in order to show us in more details how Naval War works. Like a step by step first battle with just a small handful of ships. Then add aircraft, carriers and subs. Again simple straight forward gains. :-)

  • Avatar Image ecclesiastes157p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    @jamesevans140 I’ll see what I can do :)

  • Avatar Image oriskany10853p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    Awesome! I’ll put up some more photos later today (when I get home from work, and eventually get to my own Naval War battle report (I have a few Axis and Allies WaS ships, nowhere CLOSE to the right ones or enough to do any part of Midway, but enough for a fun mash-up). Also some “Midway Operations” game (complete with battle report) and even some “Fire when Ready” pre-dreadnaught battleship action!

    Definitely looking forward to @ecclesiastes ‘ battle reports (especially to make sure I’m doing this right). :D

  • Avatar Image ecclesiastes157p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    It might be a bit longer than I hoped guys, one of our little girls has gone ill yesterday, so its no sleep and lots of cleaning and caring for me currently. :(

  • Avatar Image oriskany10853p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    Very sorry to hear the bad news @ecclesiastes – please take care of priorities! I’ll keep the thread going in the meantime. :D

  • Avatar Image oriskany10853p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    The Beasts of War Naval Thread continues with more offerings from @ecclesiastes I was regrettably unable to include in the front page articles.

    The center of the Japanese “Main Force” battle fleet from its port quarter, where we see the majestic “Yamato” (battleship in the center right) – flagship of Admiral Isoruku Yamamoto himself.

    Part of Admiral Kondo’s Second Fleet, this is the actual invasion force that would have put some 5000 SNLF (Special Naval Landing Force) Japanese marines into the beaches of Midway.

    There were two American carrier task forces at Midway. We’ve already seen Task Force 16, built around carriers Hornet and Enterprise. This is the heart of Task Force 17, built around the carrier USS Yorktown.

    The flagship of the Japanese carrier task force, (Vice-Admiral Chuichi Nagumo) – Akagi. You can tell because it’s one of only two fleet carriers to my knowledge built with the “island” on the port (left) side rather than the right, and other other carrier that has this feature (Hiryu) has a distinctive-shaped fantail on her flight deck. Mitsubishi A6M “Zero” fighters fly overhead in “CAP” (Combat Air Patrol).

    American Devastator torpedo-bombers attempt to attack a Japanese carrier, only to be intercepted by swarms of Japanese Zeroes. Now if these Devastators had proper fighter escort, the Zeroes would have to engage the fighters first, and only after shooting down or driving off these escorting fighter units, does “Naval War” allow the defending fighters to engage the torpedo planes. No such luck here, and these Devastators will pay a horrific price. Just another way Naval War recreates the overall dynamic of naval aerial combat, without sinking too deep into excessive detail or turning into a “fighter combat” game.

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  • Avatar Image jamesevans140832p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    Thanks @Ecclesiastes but only after looking after your child and I hope that they bounce back soon.

  • Avatar Image jamesevans140832p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    A fleet in any scale its beautiful.
    A couple of years ago at a local scale modelling show a guy build a glass table come sort of fish tank. It displayed a modern US carrier fleet at station in 1/700 scale. The sea surface detail was great and the light fading into the depths was magic. It is then you discovered he had modelled all the associated subs. It was a sight to behold. :-)

  • Avatar Image oriskany10853p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    Good afternoon, all ~

    Okay, while I await some materials needed to stage myown “Naval War” game, allow me to re-post some naval battle reports recently shared on the Hobby Weekender Live thread –

    I have built a tiny fleet of 60 1:8000 ships (more “gaming pieces” than true miniatures) for Metagames / MicroHistory’s Fire When Ready, it’s time to set up a map and chuck some dice on the table.

    Once more to recap, Fire When Ready was a great little game designed in 1982 for naval combat in the age of pre-dreadnought battleships. So this is 1875-1905, when we have steel-built warships with internal, turret-mounted, breech-loaded guns and coal-fired boilers … but before the construction of HMS Dreadnought in 1906, with steam turbine engines, all big-gun armament, and the advent of what most people consider the first true “battleship.” This game sets up battles from the Spanish American War, the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-05, and the Yalu River War between China and Japan (First Sino-Japanese War? Not 100% on that).

    Just to try out the game and re-learn the rules, I’m setting up a hypothetical “Red vs. Blue” scrimmage. But where’s the run in Red vs. Blue? So in honor of Viking Week on Hobby Night Live, I’ve set this up as a battle at the BoW studios, with a Blue Fleet under the command of Admiral @Warzan up against a Red Fleet under the command of Admiral @Lloyd .

    The fleet rosters are below. Each fleet has an “advanced” battleship for its flagship (Warzan and Lloyd). Each fleet also has a “standard” battleship in support (Dignity and Lyons), one “advanced” armored cruiser (Avernos and Lancorz, and two standard cruisers (Brennon and Kattegat for Blue Fleet, Adam and Viking for Red Fleet). Finally, both fleets have a screen of six destroyers Nachtwulf 01-06 and Dragonship 01-06).

    So here are the fleets on the approach, with Red approaching from the east, while Blue sorties to meet them from the west. In these photos, the size of the playing pieces can be a little tough to distinguish. So they are built with a simple recognition system: four smokestacks = a battleship. Three smokestacks = a cruiser. Two smokestacks = a destroyer.

    Warren’s Blue Fleet in line-ahead. We are on the fleet’s starboard quarter as they sail away from us. In the distance, the fleet’s vanguard is an arrowhead of three destroyers, Nachtwulf 01, 02, and 03. Cruisers Avernos and Kattegat form the base of the spearhead, followed by the flagship Warzan. Closer to the camera was have battleship Dignity and cruiser Brennon, with their flanks and rear secured by three more Nachtwulf destroyers (04, 05, and 06).

    Here we have the Red Fleet sailing out to give battle. They are moving from east to west, and we are looking from their port beam. In front (left), screened by three small Dragonship destroyers, we have the forward element, the cruisers Lancorz and Adam, followed by the battleship Lyons. In the trailing element, we see the flagship battleship LLoyd, followed by the cruiser Viking and three more Dragonship destroyers.

    After three turns of approach and maneuver, the biggest guns on the biggest ships are finally able to range in on the leading enemy ships. This is the age before smokeless cordite, so immense sheets of white smoke are still produced as the fleets open fire. At ranges of 6000 and 6500 yards (12 and 13 hexes), the Red battleships Lloyd and Lyons open fire on Nachtwulf 01. Lloydscores hits on her deck plating and gun batteries, while Lyons drops a 12” shell deep inside and sets off an magazine. Nachtwulf 01 explodes and sinks. But the Blue Fleet’s battleships have also opened fire and although Warzan’s initial volley misses, Dignity’s big 12” main batteries land direct hits (even though she has a smaller gun battery, lower crew training, and suffers a +1 difficulty because she has to shoot through a hex occupied by a friendly ship) and immediately sinks the destroyer Dragonship 06.

    We’re just getting started here, folks. This is only Turn 3, and most of the opposing ships are still too far away to open fire, much less launch torpedoes or ram. Who’s coming out on top?

  • Avatar Image oriskany10853p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    Predreadnought madness continues in Fire When Ready.

    Admiral Lloyd’s Red Fleet keeps winning initiative, forcing Admiral Warren’s Blue Fleet to move first so Red Fleet ships can respond with the best firing positions. In general, both fleets have reformed into lines … their formations having suffered a bit during the early game maneuvering during initial approaches. Yes, the movement rules in this game make is surprisingly hard to keep a battlefleet together in an orderly line during maneuvers.

    In general, though, Red Fleet is a little better organized, with battleships closer behind their screen of cruisers without their cruisers actually getting in the way. In this manner, Red Fleet is able to put more focused firepower down into select targets. This is proven as the fleets open fire on Turn 04 (cruisers are now close enough to fire with their primary batteries). Warzan hits Rec cruiser Lancorz and does some damage, this time it is Dignity’s turn for a clean miss. Blue cruisers Avernos and Kattegat also land some hits, but don’t score very big on damage. Cruiser Brennon is out of position, and too far behind the rest of the fleet to fire right now .

    The Red cruiser line, however, is in perfect order. Lancorz, Adam, and Viking all land hits at 3000 yards on Blue cruiser Kattegat, and quickly have her in a mass of flames. Then come the big guns of battleships Lloyd and Lyons, which simply pummel Kattegat to pieces. She rolls over and sinks.

    Turn 5 – The two fleets are now dangerously close, and at last the destroyers can open fire. To the north, Nachtwulf 01 and Nachtwulf 03 open fire on Dragonship 05 (Nachtwulf 04 is too far away), and with some lucky hits, set off an internal explosion and sink her.

    Then Nachtwulf destroyers 05 and 06, just 1000 yards from the damaged armored cruiser Lancorz, open fire. One scores a perfect snake eyes “F” class hit (“2” on 2d6) on her damaged hull, which sets off a magazine explosion and instantly splits the cruiser Lancorz in two, but not before Lancorz puts an 8” shell through the hull of Nachtwulf 06 and sends her to the bottom as well with an exploded boiler and mass flooding. Lancorz may have gone down, but she took one of her killers with her.

    Has the tide started to turn? Blue Fleet smells blood in the water as the rest of the fleet opens fire. Forward batteries of the flagship Warzan sets off a magazine deep in the hull of Red cruiser Viking, positively gutting the ship but not quite sinking her (note Warzan’s position is such that she can’t bring her aft gun turrets to bear on this target). Viking is about to break off when another broadside from battleship Dignity finishes her off. Avernos has already declared her targets for the round, and she’s putting 8” shells into the sinking Viking even as her twisted, red-hot steel hisses beneath the waves. A bit of overkill, perhaps.

    Red Fleet isn’t just taking this, however. Viking landed some shells into Nachtwulf 01 before she was obliterated, and now Red flagship Lloyd finishes off the little Nachtwulf 01 with her secondary guns, while her big 12” guns open a broadside into the enemy flagship, Warzan. Battleship Lyons adds to this barrage, but Warzan is an “advanced” battleship with enhanced armor, and weathers the storm well for now, and returns fire with her aft guns (forward guns helped sink the Viking remember). Meanwhile, Red cruiser Adam, assisted by secondary guns from the Lyons, sinks the destroyer Nachtwulf 05.

    Turn 6
    Now it gets damned deadly. As ships move to within one hex of each other, they’re within range of torpedoes (very rudimentary in the 1880s-90s). They must also start moving past the sinking wrecks of other ships, their own ships, and possible even enemy ships and maneuvering gets very tight. Also remember that these ships, especially the big battleships and cruisers, can’t turn as they please. Turning is very limited in this game to reflect the engineering limitations of these period warships.

    This comes into marked focus as Blue battleships Warzan and Dignity HAVE to move through the hex containing the sinking wreck of the cruiser Kattegat. Warzan easily evades, but Dignity ALMOST hits the sinking cruiser. Red destroyers Dragonship 01, 03, and 04, meanwhile, have to make multiple evasion checks to get around battleship Lyons and the sinking Nachtwulf 05 to get within ONE HEX of Blue battleship Dignity.

    Dignity has a problem here. Not only are these tiny Dragonship destroyers too close for his big guns to hit (battleships and cruisers cannot hit destroyers with their primary batteries at ranges of three or less – the guns just don’t depress that far) … but all three of these Dragonship destroyers just launched torpedoes at her.

    What happens next? Stay tuned to see how this battle unfolds!

  • Avatar Image oriskany10853p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    The predreadnought naval battle concludes!

    Three torpedoes were just launched from Red destroyers Dragonship 01, 03, and 04 at the Blue battleship Dignity. In this game, a torpedo attack has to be launched from exactly one hex away, and each ship only gets one torpedo attack per game. They are resolved both with “crew training” rolls to hit and a “collision” check (i.e., target ship gets a chance to evade). So they’re always a long shot. But if they hit, they cause tremendous damage, and right at the waterline, causing immense hull damage and flooding that almost always sinks all but the largest ships.

    Dignity evades the first torpedo, but not the other two. The first hit only does two hull points of damage, but the third torpedo is devastating. Combined with the damage she’s been steadily accumulating from surface gunnery action throughout the game, this second torpedo hit is just enough to doom the Dignity. She rolls over to port and begins to sink, but not before putting on last devastating broadside into Red battleship Lyons at just 1000 yards.

    Having lost one of the battleships, prospects for Warren’s Blue Fleet seem pretty bleak. Still, they’re not going down without a fight. At last cruiser Brennon arrives within range, and quickly starts to make up for lost time by putting a torpedo into the destroyer Dragonship 04, instantly sinking one of the destroyers that just helped sink the Dignity. Brennon also puts guns into the rapidly-deteriorating superstructure of the Red battleship Lyons, along with the forward turrets of the battleship Warzan.

    Note that Warzan cannot engage Lyons with her aft turrets, Admiral Lloyd keeps winning initiative and is doing his best to keep his broadside “crossing the T” or Blue’s battle line.

    Indeed, Red seems to be winning, even as Lyons completely misses on both primary and secondary broadsides, despite a perfect broadside position on battleship Warzan. Just crap dice, is all. Meanwhile, Lyons has taken “D” class penetrating hits, losing some primary guns, most of her secondary guns, her speed, and her armor plating. Red flagship Lloyd does NOT miss, however, and now that Dignity has capsized, Red gunnery is beginning to pound away at Warzan instead.

    Still, Blue fleet continues to fight back. Cruiser Avernos lands a magazine hit on destroyer Dragonship 01 and all but blows her in half, while Nachtwulf 03 and Nachtwulf 04 take down Dragonship 05.

    Turn 7 – Brave as they maybe, it seems Blue Fleet is definitely losing this battle. With now just one battleship Warzan against two Red battleships Lloyd and Lyons, its time to break off. They raise steam and head south, hoping to open the range a little. But bad luck continues to dog the Blue Fleet as destroyer Nachtwulf 04 collides with the sinking Dignity, taking damage but remaining afloat . . . for now.

    Red Fleet isn’t about to let Blue Fleet escape, however. Unscathed, in fact not even shot at yet, Red Flagship Lloyd “crosses the Blue T” so close she damned near collides with cruiser Avernos. big 12” guns hammer into the Warzan, who is concentrating her fire on the badly damaged Lyons. The logic is, if Warzan, Avernos, and Brennon can sink Lyons fast enough, than it will be back to one battleship per side. But Lyons is refusing to go down, even as the damage is quickly piling up on the Warzan.

    Meanwhile, the cruisers and battleships of both sides use secondary guns to engage and sink the remaining destroyers. There are only a handful left, and most are damaged by gunfire or collisions. Cruiser Brennon hits and sinks Dragonship 02 (not before she puts a torpedo into the hull of battleship Warzan while Avernos sinks Dragonship 03. Cruiser Adam sinks Nachtwulf 03 while battleship Lyons sinks the collision-damaged Nachtwulf 04.

    At the beginning of Turn 8, all that remains are:
    Red Fleet: Battleship Lloyd (undamaged), battleship Lyons (all but crippled), and cruiser Adam.
    Blue Fleet: Battleship Warzan (badly damaged), armored cruiser Avernos and cruiser Brennon.

    Blue finally wins initiative and reorganizes a battle line right down the middle of Red Fleet ships that can only turn so fast. Red battleship Lyons also only has a speed of ‘1’ at this point so is distressingly easy to set up on.

    A withering salvo of 10” and 12” shells from Warzan finally sets off internal explosions aboard the Lyons, and she starts to break up and sink. Lyons lasted way too long for Blue Fleet to turn this thing around, though, all this while the Red flagship Lloyd has been POURING shellfire into Warzan, which is about to capsize and sink herself. Secondary batteries from all three remaining blue fleet ships rack up some horrific damage on the Red cruiser Adam (80% of weapons gone, -1/3 hull plating, -1/3 speed), but it’s actually a shell from Adam that finally sinks the Warzan.

    This game is decidedly over. As if to add insult to injury, the cruiser Brennon fails her evade check and collides with the sinking hulk of Warzan, rolls badly on her damage check, and actually sinks right there as well. Only the armored cruiser Avernos escapes.

    It’s been a hard-fought battle, but Red is the clear winner. They may only have two ships left, and one of them (cruiser Adam) badly damaged, but the advanced battleship Lloyd doesn’t have a scratch in her paint. This ship alone represents a massive force remaining in the battle area, leaving Red Fleet to rule the waves in this corner of the ocean.

    Hope you liked the battle report!

  • Avatar Image oriskany10853p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    Okay, I’ve marshaled my resources, sortied my fleet, printed out some cards, and set up a table (about 170 cm x 120 cm). AS I said before, my collection of naval miniatures is pretty humble, and drawn from at least 3 different companies so my scale isn’t very consistent. But I’m not worried about all of that.

    I don’t even know what half these ships actually are (I have American Japanese, British, German, Italian, you name it) – mostly snagged off of E-bay when I found a good deal. I’ve printed out American and Japanese cards (the part of WW2 naval history I’m interested in) and hope to do some theoretical mash-ups, mostly cruiser actions like those that took place through the Solomons campaign of 1942-43.

    Wish me luck! Tomorrow morning I start chuckin’ dice!

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  • Avatar Image ecclesiastes157p said 2 months, 1 week ago:

    Looks great! Kids are improving, but my weekend gaming window has expired. I’ll try again next week :)

    Some more random shots: