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Expanding the 40k line (23 posts)

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  • Avatar Image apocryphal600p said 9 months, 3 weeks ago:

    So with the return to the 40k hobby, I decided to read my first Black Library novel – I think I might have read one or two eons ago, but not so memorable that I can recall. Anyways, read book 1 of the Horus Heresy – great read! It also gave me an idea: Why doesn’t GW release micro-factions for narrative and local campaign use?

    Infinite worlds of Humanity – many of them conquered during the crusade, but many of them I’m sure left abandoned after the Heresy and the start of the endless wars. With the new balanced systems, they could release a micro-faction of say, 5-6 unit options, give them a few keywords and allow players to collect these single system or single planet factions for use as mentioned above.

    I feel like this would be a benefit all-round – 1st it would allow GW to ‘experiment’ with new designs and see what people like – without committing to a whole new faction; 2nd it would allow people who have their full space marine army, just the way they like it, to collect something else rather than having to cater to those players with power-creep units from the same factions.

    I was thinking of the 6319 forces – they had a military force like the Imperial Guard, a militia, tanks, heavy weapons and sentry guns, plus they had an elite force who could cloak and made quick work of space marines during several encounters.

    Then there were the megarachnids – kinda like the bugs from Starship Troopers – fast, sharp and deadly – with a few variants like flyers and giants.

    I mean you could release a Start Collecting box for $85 USD which contained a Patrol detachment – and then release an elite, heavy and fast option and see how people respond. Or maybe for $120 you sell a 1000 pt. Battalion, and you just see how well it does for sales.

    I don’t know, I think that would add a lot of variance to the model range, keep long-term customers coming back to the well, encourage new and unique sculpts, and not interfere with over-all balance. What do you guys think?

  • Avatar Image admiralandy275p said 9 months, 3 weeks ago:

    That’s Kinda how Necrons were introduced from WD217 in tail end of 2nd ed over a few issues and look where they are now.

    Theres certainly room in the army roster for long lost and never arrived armies that constantly have expressions of interest. Squats, Slann, Hrud (space Skaven), lets face it Mantic have pushed out Vermyn and Forge-Fathers as cornerstones of there systems for a reason…..

  • Avatar Image apocryphal600p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Yeah, I get the desire for some of these armies to return – but I’d more like to see an intentional stand-alone force, maybe 1000-1500 points – maybe designed in collaboration with major tournament winners – not to be a tournament force mind you, just to be a narrative/open expansion – maybe a little $10 codex to go with them.

    The problem I have with Necrons, and to a lesser degree Squats, Slann, and Hrud is that they are just ports of Tombkings, Dwarves, Seraphon and Skaven – I want to see something like Infinity Combined Army or Non-stadard Imperial Guard…. like what about a world of Imperial guard types who used high-tech, small-scale grav mortars that they buzz around on in teams of 3 – what if their armour looked more eldar than terran and their leaders were floating hive-minds. I mean it would make for some table-top interested and a little bit of fun on a sunday morning but not be a serious influence on the 40k universe – unless the market made it too lucrative a choice for GW to pass up.

  • Avatar Image apocryphal600p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    And as a side note – you could just release a box every 6 months or so and even do limited release and I think they wouldn’t have trouble selling out when they do – plus if they can make their money back on the casting, they could hang on to the design and just print new runs by popular demand. As long as their sculpt quality didn’t suffer, I don’t think they’d have trouble selling out every time

  • Avatar Image onlyonepinman5414p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    I’m not sure exactly what you mean by a “micro faction” but certainly in 7th they released a few sub-faction codice. Iyanden, Harlequins and Tempestus Scions spring to mind. Not sure how many they did

  • Avatar Image apocryphal600p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Sub-factions are ok, but by micro-factions I’m refering to having a faction that is like: “The Freeworld of Novus Terra”
    Then have a maybe, 45 models to go with it.
    1 Heretic Emperor
    1 Heretic High Priest
    Squad of 3 Rocket Hang-glider Troops (Fast Attack)
    Squad of 10 Heretic Guard – Bolter-armed exoskeletons with Crystaline armour (elites)
    3 Squads of 5 Heretic Bretheren – variously armed as ranged, scout or assault (troop)
    Squad of 5 Tradesmen Heavy Mining Equipment volunteers (Heavy Support)

    And that’s it – Then you could have something that is different looking, hopefully cooler looking, that people can pick-up and play narratives with or play with friends.

    Another Example:
    “Death Planet CX-4Z5″
    29 Models in the set
    1 x Top Tier Carniverous land shark
    2 x Psychic Slugs which are hard as hell to destroy and dampen XYZ abilities
    2 x Death weaver plants – moving venus flytraps that shoot terminator skewering barbs
    10 x Parasite Infested Orcs/Eldar/Marines – remnants of a scout party – assault only
    5 x Steel Carapaced Hornets – snatch and grab enemies to feast on them
    10 x Death Monkey Colony – hit and run with plant-based fire bombs

    Listen, I’m not as creative as some people but I think you get the idea – you release these boxes of 1000 points and you can play a crap-ton of scenarios where Marine Scouts make planet fall, Eldar make first-contact, tyranids try to consume a world nastier than they are…

    Keep in mind that I’m not kickstarting this idea or anything, just putting it out in the world to see what comes back – maybe it seems stupid to diverge from solid intellectual property – but I don’t see this as a true divergence, more of a fleshing out – and I’d love to hear about ideas people could think of for different micro-factions

  • Avatar Image admiralandy275p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    I see what your saying but I think ‘novelty’ armies would only work if there was something to give it some longevity. If they were released in one of there box games, then you could play the game for what it is and had an option to field it in actual 40k with a few add on unit packs could work and GW might try.

    But as a stand alone force pushed out on its own merits I don’t think so. Like Space Vampires (An option in Rogue Trader) starting from a boardgame to a niche force. Just as Genestealers where but it took Space Hulk and Hybrids from Deathwing to galvanise them to be a faction.

    So I think the Boardgame kind of option more likely for a test run on a totally new force in 40K.

  • Avatar Image apocryphal600p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Good point, I think board games would be a good introduction – or maybe an armageddon size expansion – actually, thinking of that death world example – a faction that could also be hazardous terrain would be fun – but I guess that can be home-brewed lol

  • Avatar Image onlyonepinman5414p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    You also need to bear in mind that often, the boardgames are really excuses for people to build a collection of miniatures quickly and at a slightly discounted price; the game itself isn’t necessarily a gateway but the miniatures in them certainly are. So any boardgame they produce would probably need to include miniatures that would eventually form part of a larger collection.

    What they might do is release small codexes allowing to create armies from micro factions and possibly a couple of character models but the rest of the army would need to be made up of existing ranges – possibly more than one range.

    So for example, The Freeworld of Novus Terra might just be an army made up of Imperial Guard models (cadians and vehicles) but maybe also allowing units of Chaos or Genestealer cultists (the two armed varieties) to represent the untrained masses involved in a worker uprising. On top of that they might then make a couple of character models like the Triumvirate boxes which have been very well received so I would expect to see more of them in the future and little narrative stories like this would work well as a means to sell them.

    I think what I would like see is more conversion kits. They used to do a Knights of the Blazing Sun kit that allowed you to turn the standard Reiksguard Knights into a different order by using a few different bits. They also did a Dark Angels veteran conversion kit too. They currently do a genestealer cult conversion set for the Cadian squad and a Storm Cast Eternal conversion set too. I think producing more of these so that you start to personalise and customise your armies would allow people to essentially invent their own micro factions. At the moment I spend a lot of time scouring the web for 3rd party bits but I would also like to see GW make some offerings in that section of the market. They could probably add an extra £10 onto whatever I buy from them because I would be happy to pay the extra for the conversion parts.

  • Avatar Image admiralandy275p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    @onlyonepinman they have done exactly as you describe a number of times. The Dark Shadows? Summer Campaign had a few extra models for the campaign. They did a limited chaos conversion sprues ina bag £10 set with sprues of Orks IG/Chaos? and Zombies for The Black Crusade and Mutants unit?.

    Feral Orks and Kroot Mercenary armys in WD Chapter Approved, admittedly this is more than 12+ years back, but if moving back to that kind of time then of shoot armies are possible in a number of ways.

  • Avatar Image onlyonepinman5414p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    I am very much expecting more Triumvirate boxes although I suspect they will be limited to established characters for a while, maybe a couple of years, until the new 40k universe becomes more established. Which actually has me a bit excited – I have been very impressed with the three Triumvirates released so far and it would be great to see some for other factions (Orks?)

  • Avatar Image admiralandy275p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Unless Orks get a major storyline I don’t expect a special character Ork set. Chaos would seem more likely, at least in the near future. If they find it working then maybe other factions like Orks might get a special character set role out.

  • Avatar Image xnickbaranx23p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    I’m going to answer the OG post with two words:

    “Continued Support”

    Here’s the problem for GW: the GW fanbase is rabid and at this point any line that gets added to 40K, and doesn’t get continued support, creates an angry subset of their fanbase who feel neglected and who will vocally assert their perceived neglect.

    It seems like a little thing, but it is a huge difficulty. When GW decides to add something into their games, they can’t take the freewheeling approach of their first two decades as a company. There is no longer the flexibility to throw things out there and see what sticks. I’m sure it is as frustrating for the designers as it is for the customers, but they have too much riding on each release, both financially, and creating something lasting for their fans that will justify continued support.

  • Avatar Image dogma2097605p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    The Kroot were a fantastic example of scope expansion – a single box and a few blisters and made 40K feel much more real – I think the Tau would never have been as important if it weren’t for the Kroot (background wise).

    Sure, the Vespid were a bit rubbish, but it seemed that GW took the Kroot as an opportunity to expand into some simple new races successfully, but tripped at the first hurdle and nixed any future plans with the Vespid. If we had all bought Vespid Stingwings, we would have Hrud/Enslavers/Demiurg models by now. IMO

    The only other alt-xeno we’ve had since (correct me if I’m wrong) is the single Jokaero (not counting the Squat/Power Armoured Grombrindal)..

    I’m kinda hoping that Genestealer Cults have been of some success, and that that may mark a return to some more lightweight old factions and another chance for us to see some experimentation. Hell, even some interesting bits to convert existing xenos kits like you get for Marines ad nauseum. Freebooterz and Death Skullz for Orks, specifically. Plenty of human stories to look at, plenty of xenos too. I always enjoy the Ravenor bit where they visit the 40K “Mos Eisley” – loads of xenos species working as mercs and stuff.

    A 40K equivalent of a “Regiments of Reknown” would be sweet – that we’ve never had official models for Loxatl (Gaunts Ghosts) as a merc unit is absolutely criminal.

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  • Avatar Image dogma2097605p said 9 months, 2 weeks ago:

    On the rules front – since when do models NEED support? Most variations of human sized to Dragon sized modesl are represented pretty well in 40k, in various armies – esp now vehicles are made of flesh and bone too (Toughness) – so long as you’re clear what “counts as” what – it’s simple to batter a few variants out on the theme of Guard/Nids/Marines.

    Does everyone need special rules that much? So many guys still plopping Squats on a table and saying “These are Guard/Space Marines/Whatever” to nary a raised eyebrow.