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Talk about the latest in Warhammer Fantasy including the newly released 8th Edition rulebook!
So I have a unit of skeleton archers from my tomb kings list trying to fire over a unit of skeletons at a unit of minotaurs beyond them. My opponent says that there’s no way that I can even try to shoot at them since they’re blocked by my skeletons(who are not currently fighting the minotaurs). I look and the minotaurs are twice as tall as the tiny skeletons and I tell him that true line of sight says that I can see and shoot them but at a -2 penalty (except that tomb kings always hit on a 5+ because of magic arrows). He says I’m too much of a power gamer and storms off with his army after one of the minotaurs dies to the shots fired by my archers. This was only in the second turn and most of his army was still alive. Was I wrong or did he overreact?
in this case you where right, as it is now true line of sight. even in the rule book there is a couple of pictures and examples where a unit shoots over its own uningaged units. i think its a bit of a odd move to storm off after a unit of archers only does 3 wounds on them since i bet your unit is prob like 20 – 40 models. next time call over someone for 3rd opinion, like if its at a game store, someone who works there.
Just adding here, true line of sight can be quirky, but it was partly due to it that they removed the old “large target” rules, I reckon. Shooting bows is nice, I’m just waiting for GW to make high elf archers a bit more worthwile.
cheap-er-ness i think is what they need, i was at a tournament the other weekend, and a guy had like 4 units of just plane archers, and two units of 10 great swords, bit of an odd army. he didnt do that well tho :S shooting is alright in fantasy these days but you cant rely on it 100% almost like you cant just rely on combat armys anymore, or they suffer from ranged things
My only problem is that he’s the only other guy who plays fantasy consistently at my club. He’s a player who’s used to older versions of the game but he’s been claiming I’ve been interpreting the rules only for my own benefit lately and I guess this was the straw that broke the camels back. Don’t think I’ll get to play fantasy again for some time because he doesn’t think it’s true line of sight. I even asked him if he’d like to come over look at it and make the call. He’s also a guy who gets pissed if he sees killing blow or (god forbid) heroic killing blow. He got pissed earlier in the game when I killed a chariot with my heroic killing blow Tomb King.
well considering your other posts, you come across as someone who does push the rules to the limit. but i know people like this guy who act do the opposite and almost ignore rules they dont like. but has he even seen the new rule ook, cus there is like 3 pages on shooting and it says the game is true line of sight, even the pictures are from models eye view. he would hate my bret army that has a few heroic killing blow never worry about it tho, there are usely more people than you think that play near you, even fantasy and not many people play that anymore
I will admit to be a rules lawyer but I at least try to be fair and balanced about it. If I find something that works against me I bring it to my opponents attention. You probably remember me from the open terrain discussion which I’m actually arguing for my opponent since he brings beastmen a lot of the time.
Unfriendly reactions is one of the reasons I kind of started avoinding the tournament scene around here some time ago. Had a really bad experience with a player wanting to bend everything so he could squeeze a win out of a game that was going to be a tie on reegular turn time. But on friendly games I’m always up to discuss rules issues. This one is pretty straightfoward, I think. You can see, you can shoot, if it’s partially blocked you put up cover modifiers and that’s it. It’s a pain to try and screen cavalry models with infantry, sometimes, but it stills helps minimize casualities from shooting. It somewhat makes big models fire magnets on this issue. I just never bring my dragons to competitive games anymore, as people just cannon snipe them to oblivion as soon as I can get them out from behind some big terrain piece that get to hide them. Minotaurs have the same problem. I also heard a lot of complaining about beastmen around here, don’t know how they are playing right now, as I never faced beastmen. But on this edition normal size infantry and good warmachines pack quite a punch (I say good ones as I kind of have been leaving my Bolt throwers home as well due to them having two wounds and not being on par on shooting power with some warmachines that are costed similarly… plus chameleon skink trauma).
High elves? Who cares about high elves? How about wood elves? High elves already have everything. :/
@aellan said: Shooting bows is nice, I’m just waiting for GW to make high elf archers a bit more worthwile.
yeah i avoid the compedative scene on the most part and only go once and a while. but you can ether get lucky and have a really good time, or like my last tournament have 5 dick heads who ruin your whole weekend. i dont mind rules banter, i act like it but only if you can explane it and dont take a hissy fit about it what do woodelves need they rock, hard to play but once you get it right you can kill most things. my main gripe about them is they shouldnt get -to shoot in woods thats just silly
I won’t deny wood elves also need to be updated, but shooting wise High Elves are.the less interesting.elven choice. No fluffy rules, nothing.that makes you think “Oh, thats high elf archery.” Wood elves have great scouts mobility and that str bonus to their bows at shorter range, if I’m not misken, and a few more fluffy rules, dark elves got repeater crossbows, high elves got expensive bs4 plain archers and the worst scouts in game ( I still cant figure why shadow warrior won’t use poison on their hated enemies like most other effective assassin scout). But we are getting offtopic here, as I said before, true line of sight can be hard to get used to for older players, and now 40k will get it as well, so maybe more people will get used to it. Try and talk to that guy about it when he is in a better mood, maybe try and discuss what he considers exploiting about it and try to make him understand different army mechanics that allow the kind of move you used and how, getting.to know your army, he could better counter it.
hmm yeah i always thought fluff wise the shadow elves are sapose to be the best scouts / assassins / bowmen there is or close to it anyways. 40k has had true line of sight for 2 editions now. he will come back, cus he plays wargames, its like an addiction. no point spenting all that money and time to not play
Well the weird thing is wouldn’t I have been able to shoot monstrous infantry behind regular infantry under old line of sight rules anyway? Other systems that don’t use true line of sight have it so that if your base is larger you can be seen over smaller based models. As for elves don’t high elves have fire arrows base? That’s kind of good. Though for the most part high elves are just good at CC and magic.
i wish elves had fire arrows lol but they dont they are so good at cc and magic they couldnt make them good at shooting as well, i mean they not bad just nothing special in the old system i think you had to draw a line between the units with no other unnits in the way.
Huh thought seaguard or some other unit had fire arrows since I was using a hellpit abomination against a high elf player and he said they had fire arrows so no regen save.
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