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August 1, 2012 by beerogre
Video Sponsors: Mercs – Warmachine
The Kings of War hardback edition rulebook has just hit the shelves… what do the guys think of it?
Fun, fast paced set of rules.
@darrell … Ogres are part of the Kingdom of Men list, so you can field up to five different types of human artillery with your Ogres.
Glad someone got it.
I’d love to give this game a go, but I think I need a little push….or some inspiration. I’ve played 8th ed regularly since it came out and I’m a huge fan of that ruleset. My question is….why switch? I’ve read all of the rulesets since it started, but i’ve never felt like the game really captured my imagination. What makes this game more than just streamlined WHFB….I know the experience of playing a game is much different than your initial impressions reading the rulebook…..so to people who’ve played this game….what makes it good?…..and can you at least try to find reasons why I would enjoy this. I have a 300+ mantic undead models that I use for WHFB….get me into a game of KoW
@t9nv3 … we’ll try. You may well see a 750pt battle on Live Rounds in the future.
Need to get some painting done first mind you.
More coverage would be very appreciated, especially the “hands-down” Live Rounds would provide.
“What makes this game more than just streamlined WHF”
Really that IS the benefit of the system. Its a difficult sell if you enjoy and are used to the idiosyncrasies of Warhammer – which I love as well – but sometime you want to get a game done and dusted in 90 minutes and Kings of war allowed us this. I guess if you are a time-poor parent like me its a god send no tables, no fiddly rules and cheap to get into.
If you enjoy Warhammer and you have opponents that love it then that’s great I would say stick to that. But if you feel like a change but don’t want to shell out for new rule set then download the free rules and give it a go as it costs you nada.
For more of my opinion please check out:
It’s a faster, easier game to play, I suspect it’s less competitive and more “chips and beer” or what-not.
Also there’s the issue of you can technically have larger armies than the models you actually have.
If anything I’d say it lets you be more competitive. People tend to misunderstand overabundance of (sometimes meaningless) options with competitiveness. Seeing how KoW is probably quite a good deal more balanced and how the tournament rules for chess clock actually force you to think on the go, I’d say this actually lets you play more competitive games. Or to re-phrase that a bit, games where you play competitively instead of look for holes to abuse and try to be be up to date with all the army books and errata (and specific tournament rules and tweaks). It does, however, seem to lend itself beautifully to the more relaxed games, where just because of the streamlined system you actually get to finish both the game and your beer.
Looking forward to receiving my copy later this month, after supporting the Kickstarter project – which, by the way, entitled supporters to an astonishing number of future releases.
With GW continuing to hike up prices, I think Mantic could carve out a place for themselves in the market. I hesitate to use the word ‘niche’ because they might end up bigger than that. I bought a unit of twenty skeletons the other day – really nice models. Not as many options as GW, but half the price!
Looking forward to gaming fun
@t9nv3 said: What is the fun part of playing a TTMG?
Actualy playing the TTMG. And KoW rules just gets you there quicker and without any confusion misdirection or mis understanding. Because the rules are so easy to understand and use , it lets you focus on PLAYING the game.And you can ENJOY playing the game , because the rules dont get in the way.
Obvioulsy WHFB is much better for arguing, er I mean debating rules interpritation and dividing the player base ….
As the rules are so easy to get to grips with , the players actualy can focus on tactical interactions and narrative.
I may not have made much sense…but I urge you to try out these rules, they are fast and FUN!!!
Yup that’s it exactly you play the game the game doesn’t play you.
I don’t reject your argument at all, but ‘fast and fun’ is something I have been sold by before and they ended up fast and flavour less.
To provide a parallel many battles have been won in history and in fiction but the ones you remember are not those won through some military brilliance but those with valient last stand or acts of heroism or skill at arms – a lot of ‘fast and fun’ games never create these moments
Actually, the Nerve system — being an abstract damage mechanic — does this really well. You can have a small unit get lucky and stop a big unit in it’s tracks, or have a unit absorb damage that should have destroyed it.
It really is a fast game and lots of fun. And the rules are free for download on Mantic’s site, so there’s no risk at all to trying it.
Just remember — when you play it, you’re not playing Warhammer. You have a lot of different options for how you move and attack an opponent. (Unit interpenetration means you can use screening waves.)
Looking forward to getting the hardcopy – it is so much easier to use than a pdf – Even if I did get the full electronic form of the book from the kickstarter – and 4-500 figures
More coverage would be great, I am like @t9nv3 I play Warhammer in a way that suit me and find the system adequate given opponents etc. I have more models and armies (Approx 4k plus for all bar Brets and atleast 3 armies over 10k) than I will ever get painted – some need to be sold off and through reading the last edition of KoW I did not see enough to convince me it was worth a move to another system. (I also have warmaster forces and war of the ring forces – i know I have a problem)
I would love to see Mantic do well, they could help bring much need change to the state of the industry and I think that they have a very positive attitude and are deserving of success. Although some sculpts are really not to my taste, which is a barrier to me.
I have never found against reasonable opponents any barrier to just playing in any of the above games, and find the strong fluff of those a big draw and have never been a fan of the generic fantasy. SO I guess I am saying what makes the game outstanding – and I think that is something that Beasts of War could help highlight. It maybe I will never be convinced, or I simply have too many systems/minis to up and move – but I am always looking for that perfect game (Which is probably the quivilent of chasing the philosphors stone)
But fluff-wise, I actually see this as a strong point of KoW; if you love the WH universe you can certainly use your WH armies with all the fluff you’ve built around them. But if I have an ancient Greece “human empires” army, we now have a chance to meet on the tabletop. You can imagine you’re facing a Dogs of War army and we’ll both be richer for an experience.
“Although some sculpts are really not to my taste, which is a barrier to me.” quote dags
You dont have to use Mantic miniatures, it says so in the rules.
My army is made up of Mage Knight / Rackham / D&D miniatures / Heroscape / Battle Masters / World of Warcraft miniatures……………….
anything i like the look of really.
As long as they are painted, its all good. There is more to fantasy gaming than GW.
A very valid point and nice to have a system that lets you field the models of choice, but I have done the same in warhammer – I don’t need someones permission to use models unless its an offical tournament.
I would also add I am not singling Mantic out for this. However, I like cohesive forces, and rarely do models mix that well which is why I look for the complete package – rules/models/fluff
There is definately more to fantasy than GW, being a highly referential setting with a gothic twist. In terms of fiction, roleplaying etc there are many more intersting settings.
Picking up on @lucas‘s point that is not a setting, that is a sandbox in my opinion much like some role-play rulesets. The difference is if I fill in/create a roleplay setting I can be completely original and with out much better sculpting skills that is not possible in a miniatures games (Well not to meet what I want from a minis game)
Point taken. Hope you find a “complete package” system that you really like.
Thanks, I am a fussy old git – I am glad its being well recieved and will keep an eye on the new releases, we werewolf and angelic sculpts are tempting.
In all honesty if it were GW trying to launch now they would face the same issues as I don’t think they offer that. I was just trying to see what so many people like about the system – to be honest its not looking like one for me.
Got the kick-starter pdf and there is a lot of stuff in there. Full rules set and 8 fleshed out armies will keep you going for a while. The biggest boon for KoW is the brevity of the rules, rather than simplicity as they are still complete enough to provide a good game. It makes this a really fast fun game for newbies, kids and time pressed veterans. There is no way my wife would ever sit down to read the 40k rule book, but a 10min read through of the entire 20pages of rules while I set up a game and we were good to go. 1 thing I did do was to print out little stat cards with the unit profiles to save on checking profiles in the book constantly but I find that helpful too. Really hope the Clash of Kings gets a lot of players onboard and lets this game really take off as I think it deserves it. Also, Daryl has been busy hasn’t he, is that his new Long Fangs Special Snow Board for 6th ed you filmed on?
You don’t appear to need minis to play KoW at all – the units are set up in effect by movement tray size so cut some squares of cardboard to suit, write the unit type on the cardboard, download the rules and have a go at the game – if you like it great if not then there’s nothing lost except a little time – one of the things that I find interesting is the use of the chess clock for competitive play. It throws a whole new set of problems into your army builds
Good point I remember when fantasy came with card cut out peices in the back to play the intro game. And 40k in fact, might be worth trialling that way, but minis maketh the game for me.
I preordered the KoW rulebook, and it’s excellent. WHFB is still my game, but I really Like KoW for a few reasons:
I can use rectangles of card as units and play my brother for an hour or two at Christmas without bringing boxes of minis and three books home, and annoying everyone.
I can use my WH Dwarf army, and preserve all of the fluff that goes with it if I want to.
If I was a teacher and wanted to start a school war-games club, this would be the system I’d use to bring kids into the hobby- you can learn the (free) rules in a lunch-break, you can buy an army for £50, and you’d still give the kids with WHFB armies a chance to bring them to school and show off. I think (I hope) it’ll do great.
I really need to have a run out with the game, i was hoping for something more originally but it seems to be an ok system. Id rather go 15mm on 80mm frontage personally (Impetus style)
I was thinking of using it with 10mm. I certainly don’t see why it wouldn’t work. With a little thought on measuring distances (though as they are, might look cool with 15mm) and cohesive basing, I think it should be OK. As suggested a bit higher in the thread, you can at least cut out some mock “elements” and try how it works.
1 of my “I’ll get round to that one day” ideas is a travel Kings of War set. Would need to be about 10mm scale, 2 1000pt armies (probably dwarves v orcs or elves trying to find minis that fit the regiment types), couple of those little trees, maybe a farmhouse, dice, 6″ ruler, all wrapped in a green cloth and ideally fitting in a large Mantic unit box. Chuck it in your your hand luggage and Costa del Gaming is on. One day….
Hi dags. When I said fast and fun.I meant it plays fast and can be easily adapted to suit your idea of fun. For hard line competative play the addition of chess clocks gets you to focus heavily on tactical interaction over a series of timed turns, totaly engaging you in the battle plan ..
Or you can scale back and use the rules without chess clocks, but add beer and pizza, and get a relaxed game.
And you can make up your own senarios/campains and play purley narrative games too.
The rules give you a straight forward solid foundation to build on,to arrive at the level of narative and competitivness and size of game you want to play.
KoW suffers from being tacticaly rich, as thier is little in the way of ‘ list building’ ‘unit load out’ ‘most cost effective spam units’ to polute the interwebs with . Because ACTUAL tactics are situational and can not be written down as set pieces.
@lanrak, and @lucas,
Thanks for the replies, and clarification. I may well do the proxy with card and try out a few things to give it fair judgement. Its good to hear its not a list driven game – although Darrel and Andy seem to be trying to make it so – as that does tend to very narrow thinking and is not an area I am keen on. I guess my issue is that between GW and PP with a few side bits thrown in I get my gaming fix, albiet by choosing how and who I play and nothing about KoW aside from Mantic’s approach says you have got to try this.
Even back when I used to tournament play, I never tended to follow the meta-list drawing on my interpretation of background and models like and getting what I could from them.
GREAT REVIEW, I should be receiving my book any day now. I have only been playing KoW for about 4 months now. Having said that I really love this system. Troops matter and can actually kill characters. This is truly a game of epic battles. While the characters are fun they won’t win without the troops. I like this system so much that I am working on an ACW version.
I have been playing KoW using 10mm based on20*40mm Warmaster style bases. Each base in the unit corresponds to the unit increment size (1 for Troop, 2 for Regiment, 3 for Horde) and we switched inches to cms.
It has been great fun to play so far and I got this force painted in my spare time over 3 weeks or so http://sho3box.wordpress.com/tag/10mm/
I must admit that my partially BOFA box set would love some copplestone additions and KofW at 10mm could well work nicely
I took some quick photos of the three, 1000pt games of 10mm KoW war that got played in my place on Saturday if any of you are interested in a look
YES finaly a reson to get my armaleon minis out of theyr box
I have been following Mantic for some time and the difference between Mantic and another so called games company is they care about their customers. Plain and simple…
Got the book, love the AFFORDABLE mini’s and the direction they are heading.
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