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July 21, 2011 by beerogre
Andy and Jake have a quick game of the new Dwarf Kings Hold… I wonder if Andy’s going to finally win a game…?
Love seeing games getting played. MUST BUY this now. Love the mechanics and it looks a lot of fun…need to trample some elves lol.
Agreed. The last game had dwarfs smacking undead into piles. Smacking around elves, such a satisfying sound… and confounding orcs sounds kind of fun too.
Dear oh dear Andy…shield bash!!! Fun to watch the dice gods at work as well
Watching this, it was odd the way we’d say something then the dice gods would make it so. No camera trickery here guys, this is how it went. Maybe the dice gods really do hate Andy. And here’s me thinking that was just a rumour…
I’m lucky in love…
Just not with dice!
You are too. She’s a lovely lady.
Yeah… I get all worked up about hitting stuff and forget about shield bash…
I did the same thing in the first DKH.
We’ve just played Scenario 8 and I totally forgot about Shieldbash and got bogged down for several turns in which all but 2 of the Orcs were slaughtered by Elves. By ELVES I tell thee!
Luckily the dice gods were with me and the tide was turned and in true R(orcs) Drift style the remaining Orcs butchered the entire Elf party and stomped out with 2 treasure.
Great game, simple to play, hard to master.
Shieldbash! Must remember shieldbash!
Shield bash does dramatically increase your tactical options in a turn. Always worth considering, even when you decide to just batter the opponent anyway.
I’m kind of confused. The orcs are hard to kill, get stronger when wounded, and can shield bash. The elves are fast and can dodge. The skeletons can be brought back to life. What makes the dwarves special?
The Dwarfs are better at fighting, have more armour and move faster than the Undead (who are the ones they meet in the first box).
Sorry I should have been more specific. I meant that in the future when new scenarios are created that bring the two sets together (so you can have dwarves against elves or orcs) what makes a person want to play the dwarves over the orcs? The orcs seem to be better in every aspect. And it was also said that there are plans to do a four player scenario using the two sets what is a person’s motivation to play the dwarves if they don’t do anything that is unique to them?
boromirandkermit (below) lists several differences. However, you make the mistaken assumption that they will be fighting on a one-to-one basis. Compare a Skeleton to an Orc and they look pretty feeble, but you know they will not be fighting in equal numbers. Nor will the Dwarfs be. In addition, the Dwarfs in Dead Rising are lightly armoured non-elites. There are more heavily armoured and better fighting Dwarfs coming to add to the mix (along with Dwarf shooters and berserkers). The aim is to have what amounts to a points system to balance the sides so that all have an equal chance. And nobody else has Son of Stone, so that will always be unique to Dwarfs. So, in answer to your question, there are a number of reasons why you might want to play Dwarfs, Orcs or anyone else. As the options for each side expand you should be able to mix and match a wider variety of models to suit your playing style and your opponents. Each side should be different, with some more numerous and others more elite, but all balanced.
On a side note, I’m not sure why this question has gained several posts a negative Karma. It seems to me that thekingofblades asked a reasonable question. If you think he’s got it wrong then you should comment and tell him why he’s mistaken, not just lob negative Karma about. At least that’s my view. Chucking negative Karma instead of commenting is unhelpful and seems to me to be borderline cowardly. There, I’ve said it: go on and drop some more negatives on me if you like (and prove my point)
Dwarf’s have Son of Stone which can be powerful and they have one more movement than the Orcs as well. Their Action Chits are different remember too.
most important question.
Where do I get my “I’m not Lazy I’m out of action points” shirt?
It was actually given to me a couple of years ago for something completely different, and I’ve been waiting for the right moment to wear it ever since. This was it
If anyone’s played the Dwarf King’s Hold AND Incursion, please PM me. Thanks.
Well then, if you’d be so kind as to name the elements you prefer in DKH and some you like more in Incursion, that would be really helpful. (Either here or privately)
Well I’m obviously a little biased as I wrote DKH, but for my 2c I’ll tell you what I think (in brief). Just for reference, I’ve played DKH hundreds of times, and Incursion only twice. The chap who had it at the club said it was broken and that the Germans couldn’t win. We played with me as the Yanks (I won) and then swapped sides (I won again – he only got one model off when I pointed out how he could do it). This isn’t to say that my opponent is dense, far from it, just that the learning curve on the two sides is very different. He’d already played it several times before we had a go, but he’d not *clicked* with how the Germans needed to be played. This difference in learning curve is true of both games (and many others).
I can see that this is going to get way too long for this space, so I’ll try to summarise:
The themes are obviously very different: alternative WWII and fantasy. I like both, myself.
Price: Each DKH set is a stand-alone game, complete with miniatures for £35 (less if you shop about). I have not bought Incursion because the miniatures are so nice. Playing the game with card counters is the same game mechanically, but a far lesser experience. When I worked out how much it would cost for the game + miniatures it was about £120. Too much, in my view, for what was an OK, but not stunning, game. Which leads me to…
Game play: Incursion uses action points to buy each step forward, each turn a model makes, etc. This is a level of detail more than DKH uses. Personally, I think this works at times, though I don’t think it really adds to my enjoyment much. I discarded this level of detail as unnecessary for DKH, which tells you something. DKH is designed to have a great deal of depth, replayability and expansion potential. You can play straight out of the box or take it as far as you like. Incursion felt a little limited to me, though I did only play it twice. I would expect that there is more to it than I saw, though how much more it could cost to get there I don’t know. Both games are expandable with extra models, but models for DKH are rather cheaper. Both games play by taking actions with individual models to achieve missions. DKH uses separate tiles which can give more variety in layout of scenario than the Incursion board.
Components: Incursion is on thicker card than DKH. Both look very pretty (same excellent graphic artist). DKH has all the models you need in the box, Incursion has card counters. You can buy models for incursion separately with each side (Axis/Allies) costing about the same price as the game again, each, on top.
Summary: with my limited experience at Incursion taken as a caveat, I felt that the game play for Incursion was a little thin compared to the simplicity and depth of DKH. YMMV. If Incursion had been the same price as DKH (including figures) I would have bought it anyway because the APE models are lovely and I like the theme. I can imagine playing it every now and again. Unfortunately, it simply isn’t worth well over £100 for an occasional run out, at least. Not to me. There are too many other places I could spend that amount of money on toys and have more fun. For example, I spent £106 last friday and bought starters for two factions of Infinity, a beautiful Smog miniature, the rulebook for Dystopian Wars, some paints and a spray. A bit scattered, but you see what I mean.
If someone gave me a copy of Incursion I’d be happy to keep and play it. I am slightly curious to see what extra depth I’ve missed (I assume there is some). I have DKH because I wrote it, but even if I hadn’t it’s price point, completeness and replayability would probably add it to my collection. You should read the reviews at Frontlinegamer’s blog, and elsewhere. There are a number of DKH reviews about, and there must be some for Incursion too.
I hope this has been useful. I’ve tried to be as fair as possible.
* more gaming musings at http://www.quirkworthy.com *
The fairness you’ve shown does you credit. In truth, I prefer the theme of Incursion. But all the minis one gets with DKH are a major pull, even though it wouldn’t be too hard to proxy the zombies (Mantic! ) and Apes on a budget. Still, one could spend the resources on building a cool 3D DKH board instead. From what I’ve seen I’m leaning towards DKH. Thanks for your thoughts!
You’re welcome Lucas. You could indeed proxy the Zombies relatively easily, though I’ve not seen nicer models for the APEs than the real ones. There are also a handful of character models for the Germans that you’d need. Nice models again, it’s just the cumulative price. Of course, if you already play a tabletop WWII variant then you may have some for that.
A 3D DKH board would be fun. I’m told that Ainsty have suitable bits, and I’ve seen people make dungeons for other things out of Hirst Arts moulds, so there are a few options apart from scratch building. Mantic were talking about a 3D board for demos at one stage, but they went 3-up scale instead.
If you were feeling rich you could get both
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