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July 20, 2013 by dignity
Video Sponsors: Infinity – Warmachine
Welcome to another Weekender where the guys have managed to get their hands on the Warhammer 40,000 Apocalypse sets. Let’s see what the guys think of these massive kits.
Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/games-workshop/warhammer-40k/apocalypse/cat_28.html
Convergence of Cyriss Breakdowns http://www.beastsofwar.com/warmachine/convergence-cyriss-force-breakdown-warcasters/
Dropzone Commander Previews http://www.beastsofwar.com/dropzone-commander/flee-deadly-dropzone-scourge-reaver-gunship/ http://www.beastsofwar.com/dropzone-commander/prepare-bombardment-ucm-dropzone/ http://www.beastsofwar.com/dropzone-commander/hawk-wargames-send-hades-massive-beast/
Infinity Anaconda Sneak Peek http://www.beastsofwar.com/infinity/infinity-sneek-peek-anaconda-mercenary-tag-squad/
Acquisitions Incorporated Choose Their New Buddy http://www.beastsofwar.com/dungeons-dragons/acquisitions-incorporated-find-questing-buddy/
The Fire Caste for Dark Age http://www.beastsofwar.com/dark-age/fire-caste-world-dark-age/
Mantic’s Kings of War Week 2013 http://www.beastsofwar.com/kings-of-war/mantic-delve-deeper-kings-war-week/
Risk Lagacy; http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/wizards-of-the-coast/risk-legacy/risk-legacy/prod_20158.html
M14 – Event Deck http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/magic-the-gathering/m14/magic-the-gathering-2014-core-set-event-deck-rush-of-the-wild/prod_21800.html
M14 – Boosters http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/magic-the-gathering/m14/magic-the-gathering-2014-core-set-single-booster/prod_20561.html
M14 Fat Pack
M14 Deck Builders Tool Kit
M14 Intro Packs
Hurrah Weekend at last
Just to agree with the rest of the internet – the Khorne Load of Skulls is dreadful.
I agree with @Warzan
don’t worry Warren, it was said during the GW open day that all Datasheets are going to be re-released through Warzones and the like. My Armoured Interdiction Cadre is also not in there, but it will probably reappear
Snap with ya there Warren, any knda Titan/Hound for chaos would have been better but considdering the two spru philosophy of the kits the yeild wasnt going to be much for the Khorne thingy. The tricksy thinking that went into the Necron whatever is the best of them. Baneblade…its the centre piece of Apoc, pity the spru ratio didnt expand to the other kits. Yes, I want a titan and yes its a bit sh1t that there are no rules for one. Verry. Now, wheres that backstage, oh yeah tomorrow isnt it?
I just wanted a gorgon heavy assault vehicle or a Crassus… But all I got was a riptide and a wraith knight
Warren, I’m 100% with you! Well I understand Stu’s argumentation, I think there is no good reason (except making money) to leave the total hobby section out of the new Apo-book. Maybe it will lead all the older players (like me to:)) to keep to 5th edition and build more lovely terrain and a Warlord on their own (like I do at the moment).
I have to admit the book is beautiful, but it had not been ugly if the added data sheets for models GW does not sell at the moment. Show some cool terrain and how you can build it. I just don’t get it, it all was in the previous book, why is it not in the new one?
I guess they could build a basic warhound chasis kit and have two kits of armour, weapons and head for chaos and imperial. I’d buy one……or two……. Khornelord is too niche. Would have been nice to have a more mechanical option for weapons etc instead of torso/head. Then able to use it as mechanicum allies as a second option. Hopefully Forgeworld or Chapterhouse will make it so….. Good healthy disscusion on the kits but how does the book work, any cool formations? I have never had the book or played it………..
baneblade thing Plague Reaper
Nice show again.
I actually own one of the original forgeworld baneblades myself, and whilst I’m not going to suggest GWs pricing policy is anything but insanity for buyers, I did pay, from memory, at least £150 for that when new, I can’t remember the exact figure they sold at.
I don’t like the khornemower either, and its models like that that sort of push me towards other games and away from the current 40K scene, its just not for me any more. We still break out second edition occasionally, and I still enjoy painting and converting my space marines as part of my hobby time, but for playing games I do think that other games offer more of what I’m looking for, and what initially attracted me to 40K , than current 40K does.
Infinity, X wing, malifaux is another I’m looking towards when 2nd edition appears, I’ve bought a victorias starter box already, I just like the ‘feel’ of those games better than what 40K has become. A reimagined Necromunda would, though, probably take all the hobby money I would spend on the above combined, so I do think GW are very much missing a trick focusing so much on the dingle demographic.
And that would be single demographic, although a dingle demographic does sound like a new weapon for noise marines.
Hi all. I have just tried to apply logic to the idea of Apocalypse.
And if we assume that the idea of Apocalypse is so EXPERIENCED/VETERAN gamers to grab everything they own and have a MASSIVE NARRATIVE battle.(Cool!)
Then do these people need to be told how to play this sort of game? And if they do, surely they want INSPIRATION in the form of massive CENTER PIECE models and NARRATIVE driven senarios.
Rather than the ‘Hi kiddies, if you want to play Apocalypse BUY MOAR GW KITS!!!!’ (Eg Warren description/dislike of ‘cookie cutter formations’ …)
Unless you have a suitably large playing area, Apocalypse sized games tend to look like a massive traffic jam, where road rage gets out of control.
I like the idea of big battles , in fact I love EPIC battles in the 41st millenium. But I prefer a rule set written for this type of game play, (Epic Armageddon,) and suitably sized minatures.
In reguards to Warrens comment about GW not being a hobby compnay any more.Then it depends on which definition of hobby you use.
If you are talking about the massively creative and inspiring Table Top War-games hobby, where hobbiests expand their knowledge ,ability, and skill in craft and social interaction.
Then no GW is not a hobby company any more.
However , if you mean the GW hobby, ™ of selling toy soldiers to children , then yes GW are more hobby focused than any other company in the world!And Apocalypse is a prime example of this IMO.
Some public companies are able to be customer-centric and still reward their shareholders. GW has not been able to make that work and continues to do anything to increase its bottom line in an effort to delight shareholders, not its customers.
Great vid guys , I agree the khorne half n half thing is pants!!, and warren, Titan porn?, you really need to switch off when looking for that kind of thing on the net dude!!!!
Nice show again. I quite enjoyed the massive rant that Warren had. I actually agree that it is a bit of a rubbish kit. However I believe that it does not upset me as much because I have actually lost interest in the GW stuff. Privateer press, Mantic and other gaming companies are what keep me interested today.
I’m the same.. my sigh of disappointment has just generally been replaced by a nonchalance towards everything GW releases these days. Is it changes with me? Or changes with the game/target demographic? Perhaps a bit of both, but the end result is I can’t help but look at these kits as potentially firing plastic missiles with digitised sound effects, designed to wow 12-year olds, rather than serious modelling and gaming kits.
I’m totally, 100% with Warren on this one in that, whatever the cost, the Warhound would have been a better choice than the lord of skulls (or for that matter, the necron one, or both even!)
Let’s say that the tooling costs for the warhound were £100,000 and it’s retail price was £115. That £15 would *probably* be enough to cover the costs of production (the actual plastic that makes the kit) and the cost of packaging etc. Leaving what is essentially £100 for “profit”.
Now, initially, that “profit” needs to pay back the cost of design before it can really be considered profit. So, if the kit cost £100,000 to make, Games Workshop would need to sell 1000 warhound titans before they’ve paid for the tooling costs.
I’m not certain on the number, but lets say there are 300 Games Workshop stores (not including independant retailers) worldwide. So each of those stores only needs to sell 4 warhound titans before the mold has paid for itself and started making profit. That doesn’t take into account GW online sales, or independent retailers.
I am certain, absolutely certain that a warhound titan kit would pay for its tooling cost and start making profit on the day of release. Even if only 2 or 3 gamers per store worldwide bought on on release (which I think is a very, very low number) it would make its money back and start making profit right away.
Even if the tooling cost was £200,000, which is a huge number, I’m certain it would make it back on release.
Yes, it’s a massive investment for GW to make, and the only reason I can see for them not doing it is that they don’t have the money to give the tooling costs. Well, if ever there was a product that GW could take to kickstarter, it’s a plastic Warhound titan. People would be up in arms, furious that the industry leader is using kickstarter, but people would still back it.
If they said “look, we know you want a plastic warhound, and we do too. But unfortunately the tooling costs are so much it means we would have to produce nothing else for X months, so we can’t justify it. But with kickstarter we can secure the funding we need straight away, continue to give you the volume of kits you’ve come to expect, but in 12 months time, you’ll all have a Warhound titan sat beneath your Christmas tree.”
I do agree with you Warren about that Khorne thing, its horrible. Now the Necron thing I really liked at first and while I still think its a cool concept, it looks rather flimsey to me. The open version seems to only have those wall pieces held on by 1 piece of thin plastic and even in the GW pics they seem to sag. I have a feeling that it will break very easily and if thats the case it seems like a very poorly designed kit, IMHO.
couldn’t warrens dream of a titan be done if they made a hybrid kit with plastic and resin
There isn’t much point. if you’re going to spend the money to tool parts of the titan in plastic, but not all of it, what’s the point. I doubt the price would fall by much as they would have to pay for the cost of the tools that they did do, and less people are going to buy one if its still part resin (and therefore, still expensive)
sticking to the old apocalypse myself for a while indeed i’ve been organising a last hurrah for it with a friend at my club before leaving it for my rare games at home… goodby apocalypse mk 1 i’ll miss you… mk 2 you better have more to you than that damn tractor
I dont completely hate the Lord of Skulls but I definitely dont like it. Its trying to call back to something old school but.. I dont know, I just dont think it works myself.
Not that Im collecting Chaos but if I ever was going to, that wouldn’t be a reason why
While I get what Stu is saying that potentially you could make all 8 variants from the Baneblade kit, by magnetising it etc, that argument doesn’t stack with his earlier argument about GW shops being a one stop shop. Last time I check (and I maybe wrong) GW don’t sell magnets, and the drill kits associated with magnetising (although they do sell very small drills for barrels etc).
The move by GW to include all the variants is a purely financial one, it combines multiple SKUs (stock keeping unit) into one SKU, therefore reducing shelf space required to stock all the variants. It’s a sound move for any company they is interested in maximising profits. The price increase justifies the cost of all the extra plastic and tooling required to produce the one box, but doesn’t include the savings that are associated with stream lining their production process, savings on storage space, multiple packaging designs, etc.
Recently in my opinion GW seem to care less and less about ‘the hobby’ and more about making lots more money at the expense of ‘fairness’ to there customers and customer satisfaction. I don’t begrudge any company making profit, and lots of it, but it’s how they do it! A huge shame from such a pioneer of the hobby.
Just my 2 pence worth.
The lord of skulls is crap. On another note on p66 of the new apoc rules section vehicle damage it states that old datasheets can be used just use the formula of sp x 3 = number of hp. So Warren you can still use your warlord titan. Though I do agree that i am little disappointed in this new book they could have left the armageddon crap out and put more data sheets in. I do also agree with stuart that it is sometimes nice that gw make a lot of stuff so those without the skill or time can to make stuff can buy it. BTW ask stuart if he up for a rematch on Relic
QUESTION: is there a ‘datasheet’ for the skullhamma?? You’d think that, especially since Phil Kelly co-wrote this edition, there must be somehting orky other than the stompa for us dedicated ork players out there (yes, we still exist).
Warren, support your point entirely, and my heart weeps for the big nids that we wished we could see one day, but Stu has a very valid point: at it’s corrupted, festering heart, GW is a company, and companies must make money; it would be folly not to create kits that appeal to the broad spectrum of gamers out there. Yes, the lord of skulls is HIDEOUS, but one mustn’t forget that those of us – like myself – that regularly attend gaming nights at their local GW store find ourselves mixed in with ankle biters that have no business messing around in our hobby (but then, we all started somewhere ). These children, no doubt, love the sight of a huge skull encrusted leviathan, and perhaps GW want more chaos products to sell, and this is a gentle push towards that aspect of the warhammer 40k universe.
Totally agree GW is no longer the” hobby” company it once was. From talking to club members who still visit our local store from time to time, it all seems a bit sterile on the hobby side of things. When i think back to some of the gaming tables that were made in store they were pretty spectacular.
Just adds to the opinion that GW is run by Grey businessmen and not hobbyists/business people otherwise we may have seen something that we may want to buy. Apart from the tank which is as you pointed out is mostly an old kit, the other kits are just so uninspiring. I don’t think the big chaos thing would have excited me even when I was a kid, for me first and foremost things had to look cool even when they’re not (still true today), mind you cool to me when I was a lad was an 1/72 scale Airfix Panther which incidentally had lots of seperate wheels and fiddly parts which were not beyond the attention span or skill level of a 10 year old.
Warren is spot on! There was quite a bit of good to come out of this release, but the the really big ‘guns’ and fun bits were totally lost.
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