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January 9, 2013 by dignity
Warren and Darrell have a look at some of the new Finecast models from Games Workshop and give us their thoughts… not that Darrell has many…
Whoah that battlefoam advert at 14:00 made me jump Now let my show you some miss casts – BOOM
Just when I was relaxing, listening to a good ol’ ramble about Finecaste I get Blitzkrieged by Battlefoam!!!! Holy crap! I even split my Coffee all over myself!
LOL did the same thing to me
its damn hard to see were the line between sarcasm/joking around and hidden critique is ^^, especially if youre from Germany ^^
Finecast in the spotlight? Wouldn’t they melt?
Wow It seems that you have won some sort of award!! Well done!!!
Yeah, seems like that. +31 is a lot of approval
Good video. Great to see your views on the GW range. I’m trying to flesh out my Dark Eldar, and the idea of converting a Lady Malys using the metal Vampire Counts’ Vampire Lord’s body was going to be a nightmare. I had her in hand yesterday, and if I ever get around to it, she’ll make an excellent conversion project – made easier with the new finecast.
Pricing….well, it’s GW, the world would have to end if we ever see a price drop across any of their ranges.
also just to point this out, since its resin, isnt more easily to do conversions with,
Certainly a lot easier than metal though
No just different, same difficulty other problems.
I feel the perception of metals difficulty is it is hard to cut, while not all miniature manufacturers make the blocky type of models GW used to make, so cutting difficulty is relevant to the miniature, the metal is indeed a bit more difficult to cut than plastic or resin, on the other hand that “difficulty” means the material itself prevents you from over cutting a part because the material presented less than expected resistance, it also cleans easier and there is less expected loss of detail than resin or plastic, one good thing in comparison to resin is you do not have to be afraid of splintering the resin while cutting it and finally all materials need resulpting when doing excessive conversions.
the short version is while each material has its unique quirks, I view them as equal in difficulty on working with them, I can’t say X is easier or more difficult than the other.
I’m very excited about this move and what it will bring in the future, not a huge fan of it at the moment but only because of the teething problems which I’m sure will be sorted out soon.
VERY informative. Well done Warren on explaining this in such a fair and well balanced way. I agree on all points.
We are going to see some great stuff coming once the teething problems have been ironed out. I have now bought 4 Finecast models and I have had very little excuses for concern or complaint. (btw.. Wheres my article )
It’s with the editor @beerogre – i will politely nudge him over coffee in the morning
Metal shrinks when it cools, hence the loss in detail as it moves away from the mold slightly
Yup. That’s one way you can know these are new molds, too. Metal and resin will have different shrinkage rates, so they have to make new molds to accommodate that.
I think a video showing some of the properties would be of great interest. For instance:
1) Show cutting/sanding/sawing 2) Melt point (Ala Myth Busters) heat it until it melts and show us what temperature it occurs at 3) Try and reshape the melted mini 4) Show us the how it handles falls (assembled/painted/sealed miniature)
I’m really curious how well paint will stay on something that flexible. It seems that while a drop won’t do much damage to the miniature itself, it could possibly “shatter” the paint job if the material flexed enough.
I would love to see a Mythbusters take on this! “Tale of Four Finecasts” as you subject each one to a different environmental terror. Just throwing this out there: I’d love to know how Finecast reacts to cold. I live in the Great White North of Canadia, and in winter I worry the resin would become extra brittle. The opposite of what folks in Texas have been experiencing, with melting in the sun/car, etc.
I dunno about you guys, but watching a model being destroyed in the name of crude science sounds like a good video. Not that I have anything against the models… but settling the debates about Finecast by actually torture-testing minis would be very informative.
And while they’re at it, they can put some under a stereo magnifier glass or something a machine-building technician would use to close-up/measure an edge and see if the resin detail is indeed sharper, as opposed to the “rounded” in metal.
For the second point :
“It’s a good idea to Microwave this ?”
Talk to this guys , the could even try to microwave a microwave if they could fit in some other one XD
i may buy a box of plauge marines onnce they are not in a rush, in trying to make them, as stated in the video, this is a new process for them kind of, im just kind wondering why didnt the outsource all this work to Forgeworld, and that they should start selling forge world proucts through GW, so i wont have go through conversion charges on my charge, and suffer imort fees,
The difference in detail seems insignificant. Metal is reflective and the reflection obscures detail when you’re looking at unpainted models. For a good example, take a look at this review: http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=37868
The flexibility is a trade-off for me. It’s easier to reposition bent pieces but I can imagine a lot of paint flaking as thinner resin pieces flex during handling.
Thanks for the attention
Upon seeing the full video, the “meh” is for Finecast. As a material I’m not sold on it.
I think there’s something to the “environmental friendliness” of this material. If you can chuck a failed metal back into the pot and try again, that metal is going back in a product. Throwing out tons of petrol-based(?) resins due to miscasts, especially by the world’s largest mini maker…. that adds up.
Great video and passionate, well-informed opinions. Enjoyed hearing about the casting process too, learned a lot.
Also, what about the role of casting professionals in all this? If those are the first line of quality control, this whole process must make them a bit redundant. I just hope nobody lost their job/got downsized since GW decided to shore up their margins.
Why doesn’t someone build a Finecast version and a metal version, prime them both gray, and put up side by side comparisons!?!? For the love of pete! And for construction – have you tried to build a metal Zoanthrope? Dear lord… the Finecast Zoanthrope is a dream to build in comparison.
Do the comparison! Put up the results!
google finecast comparison…1000′s of blogs have done this, one was even linked in this comment thread , just above here.
i think PP is looking at workshop and laughing. warmachine & hordes is the new king of the hill…there i said it!
I bet if anyone is interested in Finecast, it’s Privateer. They will learn from GW’s process and how its received by fans, and apply it to their own manufacturing. GW had the benefit of seeing PPress do resin and their growing pains.
too late. they did a similar switch away from metal, starting in force last year. The battleboxes, new issue jacks , some infantry(including full resculpts) and forthcoming 2p starter are all non metal. They use a plastic/resin hybrid, and in the case of the menite jacks at least, it is sharper.
Privateer press has been doing ‘finecasts’ for a while now…
Everyone has, pretty much. Only better. Those Finecast minis can only get better, and it sure is good news… But GW should have done that ten to twenty years ago. They are now at the stage where Fenryll was in 1991…
only sort of. The resolution is much better on the GW stuff at the moment. (Not for long I’m sure)
With that ammo belt you could just clip it above the miss cast, then it would just look like he has fired off some rounds. I think the finecast stuff is very well detailed. I went into my local GW store to have a look and they had some built. When i saw them i said oooh. I spent about an hour going round the shop looking at all the different models and my response was always oooh (exept when i saw a miss cast, then i said eegh) But over all they were very nice. I dont think i will be getting any fine cast models in the boxes where you cant see inside them, i will want to check it out for any problems before i buy one
I think the cast was short shot.
Good call for a simple fix for that problem Badger.
yeah, i bought a telly once that didnt work, so I laid it on its back and used it as a table….is that also a good call for solving a problem i shouldnt have?
Funny you should say that I bought a table once that had one leg shorter than all the others. So I turned it on its side and used it as a plasma screen TV set!
I was not suggesting that correcting manufacturers’ faults is ideal, but sometimes it is less hassle to do a simple 5 second fix than mess about returning products.
If i was still buying, I’d buy a big batch, make sure they were all miscasts and make gw replace them all. I’d end up with a lot of free bits.
Very informative, great thumbs up. Havent actually seen any finecast myself but personally i hate metal (both painting and playing with) since it needs to be handled with alot more care. Gonna need to get my hands on some of these models soon tho so i can see it for my self.
Finecast looks interesting and the possibilities that can be achieved with the material are promising, but GW really have to sort their quality control out before I take the plunge. Price issues aside, I think they are on to a winner here, but it’s early days and I’m sure GW will overcome the teething problems they’ve had so far. It’s a new technology (to GW at least), plus the scale on which Finecast is manufactured, there are bound to be hiccups. Caveat emptor, but I’m sure GW customer service can handle any issues?
I think the idea is sound, I really like resin, but the current implementation is what you would expect from a part timer casting in his shed, not the market leader wo’s charging a premium.
My Dante had issues, enough that I won’t be in any hurry to buy another finecast until they implement some working QA procedures.
Having said that, if I had the choice of a metal azhag or a properly cast resin one, I would take the resin every time.
The real issue with it is if they can get a properly cast one out there, for me the boxed ones would be a complete no go , you cannot buy this stuff blind right now.
My Mcvey resin is so much better than the finecast one you wouldnt even suggest the two were producing product for the same markets, my Kara’s last stand looks like its worth more than £13, my Dante’s jump pack looks like something that fell out of a cracker its so rough.
If GW hadnt promoted this stuff as the second coming I think they wouldnt be getting such a hard time, but this, with price rises and the trade embargo all in one week, it was a PR disaster in the first place, adding in the poor quality of the first product was just commercial suicide.
Given the amount of goodwill they gave up , this HAD to be right, and it simply isnt right now.
I agree, Finecast is nowhere near as revolutionary as GW claims it to be. Mcvey, Spartan and some of the Troll Forged stuff is as good or even better IMO.
I’m looking forward to seeign the Necron finecast releases, when they get 5th editionified.
They’ll be the first army to be released after finecast. :p
I got a Hive Tyrant in finecase, and I have to say, I’m very, very happy with the product. I couldn’t find any bubbles or defects, though. Except for the tail which was a bit… meh.
Could you be more specific than “meh”? What do you mean? Was it bubbly, rough, mis cast, was detail obscured?
So a friend had one the other day of in Hun Stanton. Surprisingly sunny and Hot so we decided to have a game. We almost had to put in a glass to move it around. God save our fi-ine cost! God save our massive cost! God save our cash!
I’m surprised the melting part didn’t come up at all, I’m picking up my first finecast today (not by choice, only option available) and I’m kinda worried it might just be a puddle of resin in a tiny plastic box since it’s been 100+ degrees out here for the past week or two (Texas). Really, if they used the exact same resin as FW and let them handle it I would be all about finecast, but alas they don’t…
Well big surprise, not melted but completely full of bubbles on every tiny detail, it’s abbadon so every spike on the model has a bubble in it’s place, hunks of foot, shoulderpad, and armor abundant. Here’s to hoping the replacement will be good.
I’ve had a 50/50 relationship with the new Finecast minis. The first being when I first picked up a new Finecast (A lictor,) I popped it open, and saw that there were two holes in the back carapace. I called GW Customer Service, and they said no problem, and sent me another one. They had to keep sending in new ones though, every new Lictor I got was miscast. Everything ranging from, missing pieces, to miscast heads and arms etc. etc. I ended up getting four lictors for the price of one.
This led to the plus side to the finecast. I’ve been playing Tyranids since 1999. I have a few metal minis in my collection. Putting together lictors was not always the easiest thing, and the old metal models (3rd and 4th edition.) weren’t forgiving for customizing. I’ve always wanted to model a lictor in a getting ready to pounce pose. With the new finecast, a bit of chopping, minor amounts of Greenstuff and some super glue, and my lictor was ready to jump out and assault some bio mass. It went together easily, and the pose looks pretty darn nifty. I haven’t painted them yet, so that remains to be seen.
It’s 50/50 so far. The detail is pretty good, but like Darrel said: You just have to wait until you get a good one!
To get your defective model replaced did you have to buy your model from GW online or a Store? i.e have proof of purchase? Cause I wanted to buy from Wayland Games but if the items are defective I don’t want to run into problems with getting them replaced?
GW made it, they’ll replace it. They seem to be responding well to customers with Finecast issues, from what I’ve heard. If they weren’t replacing them it would be a PR storm.
Well, if nothng else it makes them worth the price!
Fantastic video, love the info on the molding processes!
I bought the Stormcaller Space Wolf guy.. The detail is “impressive” I’d say it’s about 10% more crisp and sharp than the metal. A bit better is better than not better at all I guess. It is NOT bendy as GW say. In fact some parts are just as fragile as metal, or even plastic. DO NOT go around bending stuff! You will cry when you snap it. Do not test the Resin gods!
I was lucky to have a miss-cast free model. It had seven bubbles in, 2 of which were a little bigger than the normal. The bubbles do ruin the experience of getting the model after you fork out a lot of cash, and certainly render the item defective. I cannot think of an product out there where you get defective products and shrug it off with a “meh, that’s gonna happen”. It’s insane. But, one could fix the bubbles with a bit of super glue etc (but why should you? given the cost of the things! it’s offensive).
Overall, ignoring the retail price etc, it’s a pretty decent model. Easy to glue together. The bubbles are disgusting but I’m just pretending they’re not there right now. There are probably some fools-of-a-took who think bubbles should not be a negative as you can fix them easily. Firstly, not everyone is versed in modeling etc, and these are not ‘expert’ models, they are all bread-and-butter models. Secondly, just think about what you’re saying for a second. Is it ok for KFC to sell chicken slightly undercooked, where you just say “meh, I’ll just put it in the oven for 5 minutes?” or a book with several pages torn out? where you go “meh, I’ll just write my own page and insert it”. It’s disgusting. This may well be unavoidable but the price does not make this cool at all.
It’s an improvement on metal, I think. The bigger models are gonna be amazing and easy to glue. That’s what finecast is talking about. No more pinning, no more crying over arms falling off. The model does feel cheap but the detail and sharpness makes you see things in a different light. Putting the price aside (and assuming GW stop putting out miss-cast models), for collectors and painters who aren’t collecting armies to fight, Finecast is perfect! The lightness and extra crispiness, the easy of cutting, no more pinning.
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