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January 23, 2012 by elromanozo
Video Sponsors: Dark Age - Battle Foam
Romain takes you through the steps required to fix up a Games Workshop Finecast model, using an Eldar Farseer.
While I give all respect in the world to Romain, a part of me is pissed off that we need this at all. If GW was actually doing what we are paying them for, then vids like this should never be required.
All I can say is: just imagine how much work this model would be if it was still in metal. Or from Forge World (now there’s a company with shoddy product control). In fact, I know how much work it was, cuz I have these things in metal. Finecast is a godsend. I certainly like it much more than metal or other resins, incl. FW’s. That doesn’t mean you should accept shoddy castings. If you get a model that is bad, take it back to the store. But that has always been my policy and I haven’t had to adhere to it more since Finecast. Just my 2cts.
This particular example in metal would never have survived long enough to see the packing department, it would have been chucked back in the forge and done again, you can’t do that with resin, so GW send ‘em out and most folk either accept it or never notice- even on the necron box art models the GW studio painters have actually highlighted some of the bubbles thinking they’re part of the sculpt, and the staffs are almost exclusively visibly bent…
Before finecast I’ve only had one maybe two crap figures from the countless bought from GW. The quality used to be there. Sure you still have to clean mold lines or a little flash but that is extra metal ,as apposed to a lack of, and expected. However, the idea that you have to re sculpt parts of your mini for it to just look normal is ridiculous to me. And the worst of it is I have friends who have no access to GW stores and have told me that their locals are starting to refuse to accept product returns. They are saying its a manufacturers defect and needs to be returned directly to the manufacturer because they are tired of dealing with so many returns. So the shoddy craftsmanship isn’t just affecting GW anymore it’s straining relations between customers and their locals as well. Driving a wedge into the community. All because GW wont just put a small warning label on their product saying resin dust can be harmful if you decide to snort a ton of it. That’s why it sucks because it’s not real resin. They say resin but it’s actually a resin/plastic mix that is so diluted that they don’t legally have to use a warning label. The result is unstable crap. Just to sell a few extra units. Greed is the culprit here. Usually is I’m afraid.
No. Seriously, @lordrao, I can’t let you say that.
I KNOW exactly what it would be with metal. i’ve been working with metal for decades.
It doesn’t come close to the work I had to do to even approximately fix this “Finecast” figure… Part of the helmet and a bit of the cape is missing for Pete’s sake !
In this case you can’t choose a good model because this is a boxed set, not a blister. Furthermore, taking it to the store means you’ll just get another box with different problems.
As there are several minis in the box : Chances are you’ll get one with no significant bubble after the fourth of fifth exchange… Perhaps more, perhaps less.
I loathe that stuff. I really do. It’s just my duty to teach people how to fix it.
And yes… fixing it is doable. Everything is “doable”. Even if you have to resculpt teh whole thing, it’s doable. But what’s the point ?
There are SO many wonderful minis out there that are perfect compared to that failure…
I do hope it gets better.
I don’t get your “if GW was actually doing what we are paying them for” comment. You aren’t paying GW to do anything. GW have made a product. If you like it you will buy it. if you don’t like it you shouldn’t.
What I meant is your paying for a product that works and looks right. If GW was dime store cheap and had stickers on their boxes saying “Here it is, good luck s#*t head!” Then I would agree that you get whatever they give. But at the prices they are asking for they are certainly charging for quality so I want it to actually be there. If you buy a Blu-Ray player and it has a bunch of holes in it or a section is warped I don’t know a single person who wouldn’t take it back. And get a apology to boot.
GW are paid, like everyone else, to do it right. Finecast that is defective is not Finecast as a product, it is a defective product and should not be accepted by anyone – it should be taken back. Almost all my Finecast is flawless ergo anything less is defective and should not be considered “real Finecast”. You have to separate Finecast that reaches the consumer in the manner it was intended from GW’s massive failure to engage in quality control. If you buy a bucket of KFC and find some of the chicken is clearly below standard, missing the skin for example, then you take it back – it would absurd for KFC to turn to you and go “you don’t have to buy our products” – same with GW.
It seems to be a British thing, to lay down and be willing to “fix” Finecast instead of kicking up a storm at GW in front of the rest of the customers. Learn to complain more like our European brothers.
I don’t know whats more shameful: that this video needs to exist at all, that GW didn’t make it themselves, or that it needs more than one 30 minute segment.
I did spend hours on a single mini.
Looks like nobody likes finecast.
I Like finecast!
Never had a problem bar a few tiny bubbles. Thanks for the vid anyway. will be handy if i ever do get a bad one.
“Let’s check wheither there are any instructions… No.. There’s just a little… Image”
I find finecast to flimsy…I went to pick up one of my Finecast Dark Eldar characters and the sword just snapped off!!!! thank god it was a clean break a spot of super glue and you wouldnt notice….but i hate how flimsy it is!!
Cryptek Staves are the worst. My Necron playing chum has just clipped them all off rather than have them snap when he tries to get them out of the foam.
The only alternative is to replace the staff with a brass rod, but you need to know what you’re up to with that.
Maybe I’ll make a video on it.
Try ‘painting’ the offending bits with thin superglue before you paint them. it makes the resin go more rigid.
It also ruins any detail. Well, any remaining detail.
Finecast is brilliant. What I don’t like is that Gamesworkshop made it.
Over pricing, poor quality control. If you find bubbles take it straight back to the shop. You don’t pay that kind of money for a product with obvious defects. Liquid Green Stuff is perhaps one of the only under-priced things GW release, but don’t use it for Finecast – take it back to the shop. Under no circumstances should you let GW get away with selling shoddy quality miniatures. They want to be the premium brand – so treat them like it.
That’s what i tell my friends. I ALWAYS buy in store so i can see the product and check it while i am there. I also find the staff very helpful in the GW stores, any models i have found to be defective i have pointed it out and they have removed them from sale straight away.
Underpriced ? Liquid Green Stuff ? Vallejo, Tamiya dna Humbrol have bene doing similar (and better) putties for decades. And they’re SO much more affordable !
Well I got it for barely more than a pound! And feel it was worth more of my cash…. Surely this means Vallejo, etc are even more underpriced? I wasn’t aware they did liquid putty of this sort, I looked around the internet before buying! Clearly I’ve not searched effectively.
Well I’d say not “they’re more under priced” but GW is actually overpriced compared to their market competitors. Going on RRP Liquid Greenstuff is £2.30 for 12ml (about 19p per ml) where as Vallejo Plastic Putty is (according to Maelstrom) £2 RRP for 17ml, just under 12p per ml. My rusty maths works that as being GW is 63% more expensive. Where I live I can find Vallejo Model Color (which the putty is a part of) more easily as it’s also stocked in regular mainstream model shops like Model Zone. This is why I love the internet and sites like BOW. If I was stuck with what the GW stores and White Dwarf tried to spoon feed me I wouldn’t know about Vallejo paints, Tamiya clear paints for effects and many other cool things =)
Had no idea Tamiya and Humbrol did one too. Might need to keep an eye out. Saying that, I think I’ve a few years worth of the Vallejo still to go
I have yet to buy finecast models. From what I seen the thinner the part the more likely it will snap. Personally I just don’t like the light feel of the models now. I like heavy models for some reason.
For gaming I can see a lighter model being a good thing, stick a metal terminator, Gazghul or something similarly sized like a warjack etc on a lightly built terrain piece and you can see it sag, but the resin version of the same model will sit fine.
The feel of metal models is something I’ll miss though, I’ve noticed it since the plastic marine captain came out, and that light weight is really the only “advantage” us mugs forking out the cash see from finecast…
The detail of finecast is maybe 5-10% better than metal (ASSUMING you don’t get a bad finecast sculpt). I certainly appreciate the difference. 10% (or whatever it is) is probably not worth the price hike though.
I bought a Finecast shagoth and it was p*ss-easy to put together. Refreshing. However the single piece metal, older, models really don’t need the finecast treatment, it’s just an excuse to hike the price up (look at those new finecasted Metal necromancers… £9.50 each).
The price increase has little to nothing to do with finecast. GW ups their prices with inflation pretty much annually. They just made the stupid mistake of switching to finecast DURING one of these price hike periods.
You’re right the price hike wasn’t directly related to finecast. However one of the reasons GW usually trots out to justify their price increases is the increase in the cost of materials(the price of pewter went up considerably) But when you combine a way over inflation rise coupled with switching to a cheaper material how else are we to view it other than a price hike?
tek7297 you were tricked. I know GW trotted out this claim to try to fix the damage caused by the FC launch but none the less, there are various arguments, but if there was any doubt just look at the cost of the new release Finecast models (such as the Finecast Vamp Necromancers) and compare them with the cost of the original metal. PRICE HIKE BABY. And it’s Dec/Jan. The price hike is arbitrary and they select which products go up in price.
They upped the cost of Finecast items UNDER THE COVER of this general price hike. You’ll note normal metal figures were not upped at the same level at the same cost as Finecast which is evidence enough.
I don’t presume Finecast isn’t worth the cost. The cost of the machinery, worker salaries, and investment into Finecast could cost far more than the actual material itself. But they should be honest about it. I don’t believe for one second GW raise their prices according to inflation. That’s what they may claim but I’d wager they go up above inflation, they never drop the price when inflation is lowered.
It makes sense at first glance what you say, but when you look, in my view, at what GW actually did in that period and continue to do, when you track the prices of their items, it becomes clear that Finecast was released intentionally at a greater cost than Metal. Had they released Finecast in Jan or Dec you would be still paying more. And I think deep down we all know this to be true …. search your feelings.
try a metal base, or metal insert for base, to add back weight
Thinking about adding weight. I’m going to recast my minis in depleted uranium just to make them extra heavy.
You’ll get in trouble with the Geneva boys for using DU models
Don’t accept inferior models from GW if you contact there customer services they will send you another miniature and let you keep the defective one. With my experience of fine cast you may be able to get a unit of models for the price of one due to the constant defects in the casting, finecast I think not!
I’ve had a few finecast miniatures now and some of the quite recently and I have to say they’ve all been pretty awful. Tons of flash and bits of venting, combine that with the bubbles and warping I’m often left wondering if it’s flash I’m about to hack off or misshapen detail. The ironic thing is all that those problems happen at areas of fine, concentrated detail – precisely what the damnable material was supposed to capture better in the first place. From my experience of Rubbercast/Failcast the material couldn’t have failed more spectacularly to deliver it’s supposed objective.
Half an hour video, removing mould lines and flashing. Not on to repairing bubbles and deformations yet… seems par for the course with Finecast!
When the first half(or even third…) of a video showing how to prepare a single model for assembly takes as long as it does to prepare assemble and possibly even base coat a small unit of other manufacturers resin models, somebody ain’t done their job right at the factory…
i think its bloody awful stuff. i too have this model in metal and that didn’t take me half as long to prepare as this first video is.
Too be honest I am resorting to phoning/emailing indy retailers around the country and asking them if they still have the metal version of the characters I am looking for. I’ll take the metal model of any character over the finecast model. I went through a total of 6 boxes before I got a Casket of Souls that wasn’t miscast.
I don’t understand how anyone wasn’t fired over the Finecast failure. Almost all of my finecast is bloody brilliant, grisp and clear. Took me seconds to glue together. Outside the offensive price hike and the lying over how it was part of the normal “annual price hike”, it’s great. Whoever allowed a clear majority of their products to be released, defective, should get the sack. So many people have negative feelings over finecast because of this – most of it stems from no attempt at quality control in the launch period. Someone should have lost their job. The fact that every time you buy a finecast product you’re closely looking at every single inch and cranny of a single model in FEAR that there’s a bubble just goes to show how GW royally messed up. And such a shame, as the material itself is astounding. If only GW didn’t come up with it …
*on top of this some finecast models snap easily not because of the model in and of itself, but because of the bubbles within the material … another headache. And something you can’t visually pick up.
Thanks Romain for at least trying to tackle this issue head on. I have only bought one figure in finecast. I did try to correct its many flaws using filler and hot water. I remain unsatisfied with the result. It certainly at least to me seems utterly no improvement on the metal versions and has the addition of being more expensive. There is clearly no quality control not was there any real research done into the material as a replacement for metal prior to release and swift replacement in the shops of the metal versions. I also suspect the people who are saying it is great are either GW employees or so far into fanboi territory GW could sell them rats droppings and tell them its the new Tyranid creature and they would buy it in droves.
I solved my finecast problem anyway. GW lost a customer.
I am not a “fanboi” nor a GW employee. I simply like the finecast
i also like minins from other companies, Infinity and Privateer Press to name but a few.
I’m not a fanboi either. I collect to paint for pleasure. I rarely play the games though Beasts of War has pushed me into trying at some point. I have a host of finecast. The first Finecast I bought had 7 holes in it, the rest barely any any holes at all. I know what Finecast looks like when it’s “as it should be” and I know how it looks when it is released without quality control. Just as there are fanboys there are those who want to lash out at everything GW does without sitting down and looking at the multiple perspectives.
If PP released Finecast everyone would love it, I have no doubt. Because PP wouldn’t pull the sh*t GW pulled. They wouldn’t fudge the prices up unless they had to (and they’d tell us why) and they’d make sure only perfect sculpts were released.
In fact, PP have released resin figures. And they’re indeed way better than Finecast. Because they did exactly what you said they would do.
@poosh I wouldn’t say it’s limited to the launch period. I have some Finecast bought very recently and the material is riddled with bubbles, excessive flash and deformations. It was a Christmas gift so unfortunately I couldn’t return it. In contrast I also got some resin from Studio McVey and Kingdom Death. The difference is night and day, the Studio McVey in particular is exquisite. Like @crovax20 if I’m buying GW now I will hunt high and low to source a metal mini and would only buy Finecast as a last resort and I blame the material itself. Compared to any other resin mini I’ve handled it feels (and looks!) cheap and nasty =(
I see so many people complaining about Finecast pretty much everywhere. I have yet to get a poor cast to be completely honest with you. Sure they take a bit more time to clean up but that’s part of the hobby so you should prepared for it. Also, if you don’t like the product, instead of ranting about it, JUST DON’T F*CKING BUY IT! Seriously, SHOW the company that you are displeased with them through their income, not their message boards and forums. As a business, then their Income is their source of motivation, things will get fixed… imagine that -_-
Finecast has been hit and miss. Larger models work very well in Finecast and it was a good thing to help keep some of the older models going. I prefer gluing the light material finecast is made from to pinning metal on a large dragon. I would have thought that not using metal would save on costs, but apparently, it actually raises said cost. There are various problems with GW finecast: the bubbles, bending, mid-level quality control, etc. Many of the cast lines with metal were rather easy to sort out, but finecast tends to crumble and requires more care. Finecast also responds more than it should to the elements and as others have said, can be rather brittle. Compare this to resin produced by Privateer Press or Mantic and you’ll see how resin should be. More dense, durable, still light but not nearly as breakable. I bought a few of the older models I liked in finecast and I don’t hate the product and if you get a good cast, like I was lucky to get with The Green Knight, the detail is quite good. In the end, unless it’s a “must have” GW model, I’ll stay away from finecast. Top end models should not come with so much trouble. Thanks for the scrape of a tutorial Romain!
Good to see this area being properly looked at but the vid was a bit long and tedious. I look forward to the other parts. Finecast is a mixed bag to me, I havesome gorgeous characters in Finecast that were great to paint but I’ve seen some rough casts too. I went looking for a Vlad mini when the Vampire nes broke but the two versions at my local store had badly cast right hands so I gave them a miss.
That’s the way to do it!!!!
I only bought my first piece of finecast the other day for use in the local GW painting comp. I was looking forward to getting my hands and brushes on it. The first blister I picked out had such poor surface pitting it lookid like it had been sand blasted. After a few blisters i found one I liked and payed for it. The damn thing was miscast to high hell. I had to resculpt a shoulder and half the cloak myself and it took me hours to fill in the bubbles and gaps caused by the warping. I have worked with a lot of resin from a lot of different companies and finecast is by far the worst I have come across.
Now don’t get me wrong I do like GW thier plastics, paints and fiction are some of the best around but they need to get thier act together with their resin production.
Please GW, rehire Mike McVey as your head of miniature production. At least he knows what he’s doing with resin.
Heres hoping it gets better.
You should have brought it back to the store and demanded they order another… or get a refund.
The problem is for the mail orderers then. Or very far away shops: how many boxes should a shop buy to guarantee not bubbled miniatures? UK, statistics craddle, please give us the number! I will try to incorporate this idea of buisness. Hope the car industry doesn´t like it “client bubble testing” . You like it you buy it, you don´t…and survive, you don´t buy it. Simple.
I wonder if PP or Infinity was producing finecast as it is now there will be so much hate towards it? Don’t get me wrong finecast has its failing…some of them huge. I never see anyone moaning about the mould lines on the metal PP models – some of which are nasty, I know as I have the displeasure of trying to clean some of my warjacks up!
Not so long ago Darrel did a Heavy Gear review of some turrets, the metal parts on the model had awful mould lines on the missile pods – He didnt mention them in the video but makes a big fuss over air bubbles in finecast!
I’m not a GW fanboy by an means, I play many companies games and buy there models and in my opinion they all have there issues, pros and cons.
It doesn’t matter how much the model costs, you expect a good cast whether that be in finecast, metal or plastic. I think Finecast is unfiarly singled out as the worse offender…but I will say its alot easier to ‘fix’ than some of the metal models Iv’e seen.
I think one of the reasons for the reaction is the GW marketing hype. They’re selling this as the next evolution in miniatures, a brave new dawn of high quality, fine detail but the reality is that couldn’t be further from the truth. The work up on the metal versions of fine cast miniatures I’ve had has been much easier to deal with and the resin I’ve had from any other company much better.
I will give praise where praise is due, GW have some nice sculpts and their plastics are great but, for me personally, Finecast is the worse quality I’ve had to deal with from any miniature company… well that’s not strictly true. I bought some Rifts miniatures many (many, many!) moons ago and the Glitterboy mini was probably the worst thing I’ve seen and the metal they cast it in was horrible but Finecast is close second.
Do other miniatures have flaws and imperfections? Yes, of course they do. Do other miniatures tout themselves as heralding a new age of excellence in miniature perfection but in reality have a far more imperfections than anything else on the market? Not that I’ve seen so far. I don’t think it’s blind GW bashing, it’s wholly justified GW bashing
people are moaning about the pp plastic over on the pp forums. Normaly mold lines can be cleaned up easily and are a factor with metal, plastic and finecast.
Mis casts and excessive bubbles are a problem in particular when you charge heavily for a mini thats been out for years. GW over hyped and over charge for finecast. Ive seen some excellent minis in finecast so it should be ok but Ive also seen stuff that should never leave the foundry
I’ve spent far longer cleaning and putting together PP models, than Finecast. Which just goes to show how useless GW are at quality control. I don’t moan at the PP models though because I’m not a lazy muppet who isn’t prepared to put the effort in. Cleaning the mold lines of Finecast is easy as pie compared to PP resin-plastic or metal.
Finecast is outstanding for those lucky enough to get it as the product it was meant to be, someone made a series of stupid choices at GW and needs to be fired, but I’ll bet he is still there, ready to make the next terrible decision!
I think mold lines and flash get a pass because that’s a result of the manufacturing process. But bubbles and air pockets are a chemical problem stemming from an incorrect mixture. A problem that can be solved but is instead just ignored.
A moot point… If anyone but GW was producing it, they would sink. No one would buy that !
GW can afford to push it because they have the money for publicity, because they have the captive fan-base (and they no longer selle metal, so if you want to keep playing you HAVE to buy finecast…), and a lot of their fan-base is either very young or very much unaware that there are other games and better minis out there.
If they didn’t have the shoulders for it, they wouldn’t have done it.
Oh yeah don’t get me wrong, the air bubbles are a pain in the backside – especially when its on some fine detail like hair or intricate armour. GW should indeed step up there quality control, for example I bought the new Izzy von Carstien model over the weekend and her entire left arm was missing from the sprue! Since it was mail order I had no control on what I was buying per say, but it was obvious it was missing as soon as I looked at the pack!
@elromanozo You make a valid point mate. For the most part I totally agree with you! Though to me it doesn’t matter who or how big the company is, you do expect a good product without bubbles or distorted excessive mould lines that ruin the detail of the mini.
It’s a strange situation really, for years GW was at the top of there game in quality control, but now for whatever reason there standard is slipping.
@spaderfish I know mould lines are part of the process, however some of the casts I had in over the years, especially from PP the cast each side of the line had slipped a few mils so left the mini distorted somewhat – Something GW metals I saw very little of!
Again it sounds like im defending GW, and I suppose I am as such, but if they can sort out some of the bubble issues, I think finecast resin is a great medium to work with.
I snorted my tea when he pulled a face and said “people insist on buying it”
looking forward to part 2 so i guess he really like this stuff then
I remember when Finecast first came out down our local store. There were quite a few blisters on display and some models in store to be assembled by customers. As a promotion it was quite laughable you could see daylight through all of the models. That night I drew up a list of all the models that I thought I might want in the future in metal and started to buy them online from GW and on ebay. I have characters and elites for armies I havn’t even started yet. I’ve got to say, I’m sad to hear it was probably a good idea
I must say i like the stuff, or maybe its more i dont like metal, i have bad memories of cutting my self on plenty of spiky mini’s. Resin as a medium is a bit hit and miss though, as it seems many companies have had some troubles from it, i have heard Fenblades can be a headache. I think an open mind is all thats needed, if something is not up to scratch take it back, i see no need to hold a grudge, but thats just me
People had “trouble” with resin back in 1991 when it was new. GW was pretty much the only company NOT to do resin, before Failcast. Now they do it, they would like you to think that it’s brand new and they’re the first ones to do it.
The truth is pretty much every miniature company out there except GW does better resin casting. And that includes a pal of mine who casts parts with silicon moulds in his back yard ! The kinks of this technology have been ironed ages ago, it’s cheaper and lighter than metal.
I don’t know what your experience with resin is, but trust me, Finecast doesn’t do it justice.
Romain Fixing Finecast ? and this is only part One, This could be to bigger task. I hope you will find some time to do some more painting articles.
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