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May 16, 2012 by darrell
Ah Darrell is being a sneaky sod and yet again twisting rules in weird and wonderful ways.
This time he’s even suggesting you toast yourself with your own flamer, yeah I know what the hell but watch and see peeps.
agreed i like the way you guys look at rules who said i cant burn myself try to burn someone els!
The rules do “With out touching any friendly models.” you are a friendly model. Its a nice try but it doesn’t work unfortunately.
Actually, as much as I hate to agree with him, Darrell has a point. The rules for flamers state that you need to touch the firing models base with the narrow end of the template. This overrides the rule about the template touching any friendly models, since it is implying that the template must touch, and therefore hit, the firing model, which is then being ignored for the purpose of firing. Thus, you can argue that the template can touch anywhere on the base of the firing model, so long as it does not contact any other friendly models. If you go purely by the rule of “without touching any friendly models”, then you either cannot use flamers, since they must touch the friendly firing model, or you can use flamers in more or less any way you want, since it cannot touch the firing model, therefore allowing you to place the flamer template in any way that suits you best as long as the narrow end is in some way toward the firing model.
I don’t think it’s good that you just look for cheese. Because in the future we will never can play a game anymore without discussions about think’s like that. I mean how can he put his flamer behind his self and shoot with it.
Maybe the flamethrower-user adjusts the nozzle of the weapon for a wider spray, much like you can on a garden hose?
but what if there are many guys close to the your base can you then turn the template round so the circle is touching the base ???
unfortunately (or fortunately) no, the rules say the narrow end must touch the edge of the base
Than you made an error when moving those terminators.
for vehicles you could moddel the guns so they reach accross the bord so you can shoot from turn 1
To add to that idea, lets have the end branch off in all directions so you can place the flame on any of them.
I would say this is cheese hunting. I don’t see how it would be physically possible for a model to hold a flamer behind themselves, perfectly perpendicular to their body, and pull the trigger. That said, if you and your opponent agree to this before the match, then game on. I would be a little pissed off if my opponent attempted a “self flame” before a friendly agreement was made on the subject. In general, a player cannot willfully harm his or her own units (special rules aside).
By this logic you could argue that the flamer template could originate from any point on the base of the model and go in any direction (including 3rd dimensional space).
well he could always turn round, bend over and stick it between his legs … but that would be risking a LOT of, shall we say … “personal glory”
or his copy of conquering overlords cursed killers!
I see the point you’re getting at, and i can see there the rules laywers would agree. BUT i have to disagree all together cause baring special rules in specific armies (Summary Execution) you cannot shoot you’re own troops, unless it’s a weapon that can drift into them. So i would see this as you are purposing shooting you’re own troops to get more models in the template. It is not worded the best BUT interesting view
Let’s hope he doesn’t fart.
hahaha I just love that video, almost cracks me up to the point I start my own birthing. Someone at BOW must have vetoed Darrells request for a re-take on that – Thank you! LOL
The rules state that you can’t touch any friendly models with the template, surely that includes the guy holding the thing (yes it needs to touch the base but you also need to measure range), this sort of thing would go against common sense and the obvious reasoning behind the rules. But are you wrong Darrell? Would you use this move against a friend?
Darrell i have to disagree with this as if you did this you would be touching the inside of te base which isnt the edge so i dont think you can pull this off i think the idea is that the model can fire in any place on the “edge” so if you imagined a load of templates it would kinda make a circle. I like the idea but its WRONG please argue i like arguing/debating
Darrell of course you are always right except this time ! i love your rule interpretations that cause a good discussion but this is one too far. I agree with a couple of the other comments if it is not physically possible to do it then it is not within the ‘spirit’ of the game and one thing i get the impression of with you guys at Beasts of War is that you do play within the ‘spirit’ of the game. Or not ? .
Lets just say I wouldn’t be best pleased at this being suggested to me lol. Sometimes there’s a bit of cheese hunting and this is the sort of thing I would try on mate for shits and giggles after a couple of beverages but wouldn’t really expect to get to do it. I might get a plus 4 on it though so worth a shot hehe.
this isn’t right. because the model firing would wind up under the template. yes the template must touch the base of the firing unit, however only those models which are either fully or partially under the template are hit. in darrells example only the marine is hit. the necrons are not. an interesting idea but completely wrong. sorry darrell i think you got excited with the idea without fully looking at the rules. “Instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template so the narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit without touching any friendly models. … Any models fully or partially under the template are hit.“ pg 27 pocket rulebook.
I don’t think in his demo he had the flamer touching the back of the terminator but if it was the template would have been over parts of the necron bases.
jarredmcg is absolutely correct and you darrel are absolutely wrong plus this is major cheese hunting, your never orignally going to think that unless you are just trying to find a cheesy but “legal” way to make yourself win every single game like a power player
Darrel is corrupted by the Forces of Chaos and must be purged -somone get the Inquisition over here!
Nice provocation, but a little to obvious. I would just laugh if someone tried to make this happen in a game…
What utter crap, I have lost all respect for this arogant, cheesy, powergaming (add expeltetive here). Just how are you supposed to hold a gun behind you and fire it through you? Looking at his other vids, his sole gaming tactic is to find possible loopholes and cheat his way through a game. No wonder the rulebooks have to be so large to try and stop this abuse.
Wow relax its just a game….
Of course he can bloody flame himself! He’s CHAOS!!! What? Do you think chaos marines aren’t weird enough to flame themselves? They bloody let themselves be possessed, for Khornes sake!! GAH! And ‘heraldofchaos’ is right, it’s just a bloody game, no reason to get so damn pissed off, because some weirdo who kills people for his gods, flames himself to kill more people.
This is definitely not in the spirit of the game, but aside from that: “Without touching any friendly models” is really the statement in question. Does this include the bearer of the weapon? I’d say that, yes, he is considered a friendly model so you can’t do this.
If you tried this against me though I’d let you do it as long as you took a hit as well since it seems like a fun bending of the rules. And of course what’s one more warrior against the small chance of downing the terminator?
I love Darryl’s opinions. These videos are a real highlight for me.
I’d actually accept this if someone could point to even once specific incident where anyone in their right mind might actually hold a flamer anywhere except right in front of him. I doubt that even John Woo could imagine any such scenario.
…if some big gust of wind comes along and your not holding that flamer in front of you…you’re in trouble. I imagine it’s the kind of thing that’s counter-indicated in most flame thrower user manuals.
Very creative….but no….I doubt many tournament refs would allow that. Now…if only Darryl would apply himself to something more useful…like figuring out all the secret spy codes contained in news paper classified adds, humanity would very much be in his debt.
I would never do this, since its indeed not in the spirit of the game, and it doesn’t make sense either. This smells! Bad.
Mmm… Toast and flamed cheese aka grilled cheese sandwich, yummy. But I am sorry to say Darrel you are wrong. And ‘jarredmcg’ is right. But enjoy your toast. And thanks for the idea. I’m going to go make myself a grilled cheese sandwich for lunch.
What was the email for ASK BOW? I can’t find it anywhere.
I have a question about the Holocaust pyskic power from the DaemonHunter codex. The rules state that you must place the 5” template in contact with the users base, and all models under it (Friend and Foe) are hit. I’m wondering how this could be useful in anyway other than baking my Grey Knights.
I took this video with a pinch of salt – I’m sure Darrell realises trying this on wouldn’t be advisable in a lot of gaming situations…
But I wonder if BoW need to perhaps have an extra video category and differentiate the standard Tips videos (which are genuinely useful) with the ‘how to bend the rules within an inch of their life’ videos?
I always find Darrell’s vids entertaining either way though.
If Darrell is in the vid i usually expect this sort of stuff tbh
Why you always ask “am I right guys?” if you always say that you are always right? Oh cocky Darrel, you are one hell of a character :/
Eehm, actually this effect can be achieved without the template being on the base of the firing model. As far as I know it hasn’t been mentioned that you are obliged to keep the template completely horizontally.
Page 29 of the BRB says you cant.
If you read them, you would know, that actually they say you CAN: “(..) simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it (..)”. But in my opinion Darryls way is against spirit of the game and i would love to watch him using flamer that way himself.
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