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December 13, 2010 by dignity
Today Darrell has a look at how immobilized walkers and shooting work in Warhammer 40K.
Page 61. “..crippled a wheel, track, grav plate, jet or “leg”. ..may not move.. ..may not turn in place..” I would take that statement as you would not be able to pivot on the spot with a walker if you’re immobilised. As “may not turn in place” stops it from pivoting, even if pivot is not a move.
Darell is so wrong on this one. He just hasn’t read the “immobilised” entry in the rule book for quite a while
Another thing is… Ork deffdreads are great in close combat when you put extra dreadnought close combat weapons on it. I don’t think it’s role is to kill troops. It has some high strengh attacks with which you can kill quite a lot of standard vehicles or i.e. Independent Characters.
This is correct. If immobile, the walker may not pivot in place; the rules say that on the vehicle damage page 61. Unless of course, the walker has some sort of turret weapon listed (not sure if any do) This is why the walker rules go on to talk about the 45 degree arc of fire.
Oh Darrell, I don’t think I’ve seen you get a rule right since Halloween lol
Apart from it was wrong…
Other than that though it was a cracking video
Yeah. It was funny in this particular Darell kind of way
I think it is really a good question.
Ok, the rules say it cannot turn on your movement phase, but if it gets assaulted it will turn, since the rules for the walker specifically say so, thus all assaulting units will hit the front armour and not the rear one.
So I think Darell may be right (form a certain point of view)
I think Darell’s got it right. The pivoting occurs in the shooting phase so it’s not really movement, more like a turret rotation which you can still do if immobilised. If pivoting wasn’t allowed when immobilised then why wouldn’t assaulting troops be allowed to hit the rear armour?
Don’t bring CC into it since it’s entirely separate from shooting. The rules clearly state that a walker has 45 degree firing arcs for it’s weapons and that it should pivot towards it’s target when shooting(pg 72). However the rules for vehicles on pg 61 quite clearly say immobilized vehicles may not even pivot on the spot and that weapons retain their normal firing arc, in this case 45 degrees to the front. Nothing says that the rules on pg 72 grant an exception to the rules on pg 61 so a walker may not pivot and fire if immobilized.
CC is relevant since I thought the rules specifically say that during CC the Walker turned to face it’s attackers… but it doesn’t sooo….. an immobilized walker cannot turn as per Immobilized vehicle rules, not even in CC. However, in this case you’ll always hit on the front armour eventhough the walker cannot turn.
Ah, but its not just a vehicle, its a walker. Which is different in so many ways to normal vehicles.
That’s why @Bigbri said “Nothing says that the rules on pg 72 grant an exception to the rules on pg 61 so a walker may not pivot and fire if immobilized.”
whoa, pg 72 entry specifically states that the pivoting of a walker during the shooting phase does NOT count as movement. Therefore, the pivoting it is not subjected to the immobilized vehicle damage result.
excerpt from page 72. “When firing a walker’s weapons, pivot the walker on the spot so its guns are aimed at the target (assume that all weapons mounted on a walker can swivel 45 [degrees], like hull-mounted weapons) and then measure the range from the weapon itself and line of sight from the mounting point of the weapon and along its barrel, as normal for vehicles. This pivoting in the shooting phase does NOT count as moving and represents the vastly superior agility of walkers in comparison to other vehicles.”
Page 61: Damaged / Immobilised “The vehicle has taken a hit that has crippled a wheel, track, grav plate, jet, or LEG. It may not move for the rest of the game. An immobilised vehicle MAY NOT TURN IN PLACE, but its turret may continue to rotate…”
Page 57 Under Vehicles and Movement “Pivoting on the spot alone does not count as moving… (however, immoblised vehicles MAY NOT even pivot)
Once again… Walkers, while in the general classification are vehicles, they are more. They are WALKERS. Rules applying to vehicles apply to vehicles, rules that apply to walkers apply to walkers. That doesnt mean that because pg 57 says VEHICLES cannot pivot in the movement phase that walkers cant pivot in the shooting phase as clearly stated on page 72. Pg 72 actually looks like an exception to the rule to me.
And once again, you completely ignored page 61 where it makes reference to a LEG getting damaged and the model not being able to move in place.
I’ll give you a hint, only one type of vehicle in the game has legs. A walker.
This is why I hate it when Darrell is forced to make videos in a rush and makes a mistake. People embrace the wrongness in all its glory.
Remember the infamous Spore Pod video? He had people convinced that you could tank shock a mycetic spore pod and get an instant kill point with no chance of anything bad happening to your tank lol
Yes, but it can’t move. Then it goes on to clarify that VEHICLES can’t pivot in spot when immobolized, doesn’t say walkers. Which makes sense, considering how their allowed to rotate for the CC, but not shooting. Grant you, might not be allowed to physically rotate their base, thus altering which armour is facing which direction,but can and will still pivot to fire, just returning to current facing after shooting
Yes vehicles can’t pivot on the spot, and what is a walker if not a vehicle? Walkers are subject to all the basic vehicle rules, plus there own exceptions on pg 72. However nothing on 72 exempts them from the damage table, which specifically stops them pivoting when immobilized. More importantly you claim they pivot and fire then return to normal, yet you don’t provide any rules quote to back it up, most likely because it is completely wrong. The walk shooting rules quite clearly state the pivoting determines the facing for return enemy fire, which clearly indicates that once it’s pivoted it stays facing that way.
They can’t pivot, end of story.
You guys need to put all of your troll accounts back on the shelf until next month when you can act retarded again. Don’t worry, you’ll have plenty of chances.
Darrell just needs to post a video and say “oops, sorry!”.
I personally think that a walker can’t pivot whilst immobilised because page 65 states that:
“Damaged – Immobilised The vehicle has taken a hit that has crippled a wheel, track, grav plate, jet or leg. It may not move for the rest of the game. An immoblised vehicle may not turn in place but it’s turrets may continue to rotate to select targets, and other weapons retain their normal arc of fire.”
To me this basically says what’s on the tin, If your immobilised you can’t move, end of story. On page 72 under the “walkers shooting” section it states:
“When firing a walker’s weapons, pivot the walker on the spot so that it’s guns are aimed at the target (assume that all weapons mounted on a walker can swivel 45degrees)…”
This paragraph is referring to a walker that has not been immobilised so it cannot be applied to this situation. I interpret this as a walker can move 6″ in a straight line and then pivot on the spot to face in a different direction to face the enermy.
but, its not “turning”, its pivoting. The dreadnought’s upper and lower sections are separate, and can move and function independently of each other.
so in the BRB where it says: “Damaged – Immobilised The vehicle has taken a hit that has crippled a wheel, track, grav plate, jet or leg. It may not move for the rest of the game. An immoblised vehicle may not turn in place but it’s turrets may continue to rotate to select targets, and other weapons retain their normal arc of fire.”
this is true. But, it isn’t MOVING. it is stuck to that spot on the map for the rest of the game.
therefore, Darrell is correct, as is the video. =)
Feel free to go away now.
Except despite how the model looks the top of a dreadnought is not a turret and does not act as such in game. Even if it did other walkers don’t have one so they’d still be subject to the no pivoting bit.
So you’re saying that the upper torso of a Dread is considered to be a Weapon turret?
No, it’s not. It would be listed as a turret weapon if it was.
Take one look at the walker models and you will see that they can’t do that the way they are built.
If they could spin around, the models would have the turret pegs and be able to spin, just like a leman russ. But they can’t.
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