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August 3, 2012 by beerogre
Video Sponsors: Infinity – Kings of War
Darrell & Andy are living up to their forum promise to mine the Tyranid Codex for a cheesy list to use for 6th edition… could this be it?
Excellent video, no use for my model collection as I used to have the old nidzilla list, with a fair new little nids for larger games. That really isn’t viable now as points have gone up and access to 2+ saves is so limited. Can definately see this list causing some problems for armies.
Not forgetting the potential amount of shots coming in from those termaguants close range is scary.
Now puppet war or someone just needs to do tentacles stealer heads – ahem squidman heads
the only flaw I noticed is that if the ymgarls charge from cover they strike at initiative 1, where as outflankin genestealers will have more attacks and more then likely they will have a clear charging path… also you could throw in some zoanthropes to use as a meat shield for the doom of malantai and supply you with ap3 space marine killing attacks.
Oh forgot to add, more of these would be great
You cannot have a heavy venom cannon and 2 sets of twin linked deathspitters. You cannot have more than two sets of ranged weapons on the hive tyrant.
A Flyrant with 2 TL Devourers seems to be the goto for a tyrant slot. A walking tyrant with Old Adversary with some Hive Guard rerolling their misses is good as well but Armored Shell is a must and so are Tyrant Guard for the LoS! rolls on a 2+.
You did touch upon psychic powers a little, but Biomancy makes some hard hitting units hit even harder. Warp Speed and Iron Arm are great for buffing you/your units and Enfeeble makes sure tough units don’t survive the charge… assuming you survive the Overwatch.
In my last game I had a Tervigon with Warp Speed and got +3 for I and +2 for A. So an I4 MC with 5 Smash attacks (with reolls on 1′s to hit… Scything Talons, and rerolls to wound… Toxin Sacs) striking at the same time as a Terminator Libby AND making him roll 3D6 for his force weapon because of Shadow in the Warp… I think Tyranids are a lot better than they were, and with the right psychic powers become a real threat on the table.
Now that AP – weapons are not penalised in vehicle damage chart, the big version of the Devourer (the one for Montruos Creatures, with a weird name) is a much better option than the Deathspitters. Double shots (6, also twinlinked), more strength (6), same range, and it costs 15 points as well. AP 5 is the only advantage for the Deathspitters, but I think it´s not worthy,
I agree, lahmeck, TL Devourers with Brainleech Worms are so much better than Deathspitters with that strength 6 and 6 shots.
I guess eldarmojo is correct. Another thing that would bother me with your Tyrants is the price tag for their 4 wounds. Close to 300 points each is quite a bit. Winged MC have a 33% chance to go down for every hit they take. If they go down, they get a str 9 autohit without armor saves and lose their advantages for being a flyer. Any MSU List will deal a lot of pain to them. Even a few guardsmen have good chances get them down to earth with their flashlights. Also, I don’t know whether Tervigon spam will be more effective than in 5th. I have the suspicion that you’ll see a bit more flamethrowers and blasts (especially those that deny cover) in the meta soon to counter guardsmen and Necrons behind fortifications. That will hurt Termagants and Ymgarls as well. The close combat capability of that list is more or less limited to the Ymgarls. Everything else will have a very hard time to stay alive against any close combat option Grey Knight, Blood Angels, Spacewolves or Necrons can field. Just think of your favorite choice and imagine what it would do to a Tervigon or two. 3 Attacks are not impressive. I would not waste too many shots on 3 Targets with 6 Wounds, T6 and 3+ Save. Even Krak missiles with BF 4 will need more than 16 shots for one Tervigon on average due to 5+ cover. Just get through or behind their meatshield somehow and attack them. Shoot the killy guys, kill the shooty guys still works against any list.
It’s only a 33% chance per unit shooting at them, provided they hit at least once. So it’s not too bad.
The good thing about these vids is that the guys take some time to explain the effects, the options and how it all ‘works’. The comments above are written in some sort of txtspk from hell, which is why I dont bother with the forums.
What about now that monstrous creatures can now deep strike into cover and having some warriors or smaller nids jump out and move through the cover
That is a good point. With Move Through Cover now ignoring Dangerous Terrain tests, you could at least get a cover save if your Flyrant got shot down over area terrain. This would also blunt any assault later as the assaulting unit would be at Initiative 1 for moving through terrain.
you also have to remember that you are not allowed to attack after infiltrating, outflanking etc. making for some problems with your genstealer selection infiltrating into weapons range to anything.
Yes, however the list gets around that by taking Ymgarls. Conversely, if your opponent knows you have those all they are going to do is park a unit in any area terrain on their side… if the Ymgarls can’t deploy when they show up they’re destroyed.
Is that a toilet right behind the cabinets? 0_o
The Tervigons spawned termagaunts have no biomorphs, so I don’t think it’s worth buying the toxin sacs on the Tervigon, there isn’t much above T6 you’re going to face ad wounding on 2′s beats 4′s re rolling normally.
Also, you wouldn’t get anything against a lascannon with FnP, it’s double toughness! Casting it on the Tervigons could be a very nice trick to make it harder to kill with rockets though. Instead of casting 5+ FnP on the squad, it might be worth taking a venomthrope with the points you save on not having toxin sacs on the Tervigons, dropping the illegal deathspitter on the Hive Tyrant is worth considering. Also, why no trygon? Those things are awesome!
Yes, Trygons are awesome.
It is so worth taking Toxin Sacs on the Tervigon as the new poison rules mean it still benefits from the reroll but if it can wound on a lower roll it takes that instead of the 4+ and all Termagants within 6 inches of a Tervigon with Toxin Sacs also have Toxin Sacs. Anything Toughness 5 or higher won’t be insta-gibbed by a Lascannon, so the Tervigons can cast Catalyst on themselves or the Hive Tyrants for FNP against anything short of Force Weapons. Venomthropes suck, they’re expensive, won’t survive past turn 1, don’t give you defensive grenades any more, and only remove the bonus attack for charging if they’re the unit being charged. They were bad in 5th and are worse in 6th. But yes, Trygons are awesome.
New rules for poison are awesome, now you get to reroll on your 2′s to wound as well.
With the Tervigon’s Brood Progenitor rule all ‘Gants within 6″ get to use it’s leadership, any benefits from the Tervigon having Toxin Sacs and/or Adrenal Glands, AND the ‘Gants also get Counter Attack. Now that you can’t pop a Tervigon from wiping out the ‘Gants through Fearless is gone, Tervigons got a boost in survivability.
Also, don’t forget the new rule for Rage. It’s no more mindless running after Landraiders with your Gaunts when they fail their Instinctive Behaviour, now they get +2 attacks on the charge. So you could deliberatly move your gaunts and Raveners out of Synapse range in turn one, and closer to the enemy. The there is a good chance for them to fail their Ld test in turn 2 and get the Feed (rage) special rule. If you pick your combats wisely ( and you can with both of these units) you don’t really need to worry about them not being Fearless. Yes, it’s all a bit far-fetched, but their is something about Gaunts attacking with 4 att and Raveners with 6 att.
You could run big units of Hormagaunts at the flanks outside of Synapse range a lot more confident now. Just an idea
That’s true, but every time I have tried to get this to work at all… my units have passed their Leadership test. I would love to see a Rage fueled Trygon on a rampage of carnage… but no, he has to play it cool.
With this and the Tau one I think you’re maybe losing your touch on a few things
As mentioned already your Ymgarl trick won’t work because you can’t assault the turn you arrive. For me that makes the traditional genestealer roles pretty much useless now. With the 6th ed reserve rule and overwatch I think I’d even think twice about fielding genestealers at all.
Also mentioned arguably you want to loose synapse now with units with the rage instinctive behaviour for one more attack than normal. I’ve not looked at the codex in-depth but liked your ideas with flyers =)
Actually Ymgarls can assault after coming in from reserve, says so right in their Codex entry under the Dormant special rule “The Ymgarl Genestealers can move and assault normally in the same turn they are revealed” Always remember FAQ trumps Codex trumps Rulebook, and this has not been FAQ’d. And you don’t want to lose synapse considering the buff Fearless got this edition, also they have no units with Instinctive behaviour – Feed in their list.
I hadn’t read through the codex before posting (d’oh!) so hadn’t realised there was a specific wording in there although it could be argued “can assault normally”, specifically the word “normally” means can move/assault given the normal rules for movement/assault of a unit just arriving which is now to say they can’t. Have a feeling that’ll be FAQ’d but until then I’d accept that they can assault turn one as you say
My point on rage isn’t to their list, their list is “mining the codex for cheese” and the point is Feed units are potentially better than they were before and given one of the main weaknesses in 5th was vulnerability of synapse it was just to say I think they’re missing a trick. More “feed” units and then loss of synapse is potentially a boon rather than a penalty. Yes you lose fearless but given that your opponent isn’t getting an initiative bonus from furious charge anymore and you’ve got extra attacks on top if you get the charge then you’re going to hit first more often and take more down that would have fought back so the wound difference, hopefully, will be in your favour. Also the more complex multiple combats are far less likely given the disorganised charge penalties (no bonus attacks, multiple overwatch shots, etc.) It is one of those situational ones were it depends who you’re up against and what’s happening on the field but worth a mention.
Flying monstrous creatures though, definitely one of the few things that improve the Nid’s with the extra wounds from vector strike. Opponent can only take snap shots at you and just passing over D3+1 AP3 hits without even engaging and can then dive to get Jink for cover saves if need be.
Oh and also Carnifex’s getting a bit of a boost with Hammer of Wrath. S9 I10 bonus attack? Yes please
Ofcourse, I wasn’t saying to build a list around rage ( way to upredictable, but makes Pyrovores a bit better (3 attacks on the charge with no armoursaves should they fail their test ^^)), but just a heads up for peeps who have read around it. I haven’t read the rules on flying monsters yet, so can’t say anything about it.
And Carni’s have become better. Remember the test they did with 3 fexes against a bunch of hammer+stormshield termies? The termies wiped the fexes out because of the old Fearless rule. Now that isn’t the case anymore, a brood of Carnifexes can really lay waste on infantry. And yes, the Hammer of Wrath is good; it can potentially Instant Death a character in base contact with any fex before the battle even starts. Don’t give up on our beloved Carnifexes, they will come back!
i think this is a good list but i would swap out the ymgarls for 2 x 3 zoanthroapes and give the tervigons crushing claws (+ d3 attacks) i would then roll for all 12 psykers. there are some game changing powers. imagine a doom of malantai that you cant insta kill
I’d never thought of that one before on Psychic powers… again it’s perhaps a situational one but if you consider one of the old favourites, outflanking genestealers with a broodlord, there’s some potentially nice powers in there. Say you give the broodlord psychic shriek, it gives you a decent shooting attack vs a unit you’ve popped up beside and can’t assault in the new rules.
Ok, it’s risky; 3d6 – Ld of target wounds with no armour/cover saves allowed but considering the average result of 3d6 is an even split between 10 & 11 you’re talking 1.5 dead marines (Ld 9) which isn’t too bad considering you’re not rolling to hit, wound or allowing saves. Yes you can fluff it and it does nothing but looking up some statistics on 3d6 there’s about a 25% chance of getting 13 or over. That’s not bad odds for 4 or more dead marines…
There may well be other/better combo’s that was just the first that caught my eye at a glance but certainly worth considering some of these =)
Broodlords can’t use Psychic Shriek as they have BS0. They can use Beam, Nova, and Maelstrom Witchfire powers, but not normal or Focussed ones.
Ah right, it’s a psychic shooting attack so needs roll to hit which it can’t because it’s got BS 0, fair point. If it was shooting it’d need to be beam or a template… Not up on the psychic rules too much, I have some tyranids kicking about but I’m an ork player so none of that applies to us so only gave it a light skim =)
I would play it differently. Warriors and shrikes kick ass shooting and in combat and should always be taken with a prime. Zoanthropes are the perfect anti space marine unit: warp lance destroys land raiders easily and warp blast is ap3 so good against power armour. In my experiance gaunts are too weak against most things and monstrous creatures too expensive, so go with warriors and genestealers. also gargoyles automatically wound on a 6 to hit, great against those combat orientated characters. tyranids are still a good army and have some of the best units in the game
To be clear, the list is as follows?: HQ: 2x Flyrant w/TL Deathspitter & Heavy VC
Elites: 2x Ymgarl (10per Brood) 1x Doome of Malan’tai w/ Mycetic Spore
Troops: 3x Termagant Brood (10per brood) 3x Tervigon w/ TS & Catalyst
Total pts: 1835
Sorry if I missed something in the vid
The Ymgarl/area bits are a stretch.
A bastion is a bastion. It’s a building/fort. It would have to be the same distance from any other type of terrain as it says in the book. By the same logic as “if you model rocks on your infantry bases, they don’t count as cover”.
The Aegis are barricades. If you jump behind it and shoot the guys sheltering there, they don’t get the save.
I can see the logic of Ymgarl emerging being able to charge on the turn they come in by the “codex overrules BRB” bit.
I have them and use them (or did before I got sad about my warrior-heavy army insta-dying on turn one every game and switched armies for awhile). Looking forward to my Harpy actually being able to drop bombs now.
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