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November 9, 2011 by darrell
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Warren and Darrell discuss the elites section of the New Necron Codex.
Warscythe is +2, so with Lychguards, Strength 7!. So it is almost a chainfist!, and with no Initiative cost!
I’d imagine using the sniper rule is to give an additional benefit for a high roll – it’s just the name that makes it sound daft …
The Deathmark Gun actually has a a 1500m range, but they only have one eye so their depth perception is off and they wont fire until they think they’re in range…
Writhing worldscape is 35 pts.
Think the goodies will be in the fast attack section me thinks.
It seems like the rules are inversely proportionate to how good the model is, the more awesome it looks the more mediocre it plays, the flayed ones are fairly nasty, but the models are both horrible and over priced.
I don’t think Warscythe’s ever had a shooting attack, I think you might be thinking of the Staff of Light, which had an Assault 3 S5 AP3 12″ shooter what was also a power weapon, but that is now just the shooting weapon bit, there is no Power Weapon janx involved with the new Staff of Light.
Also, Lychguard are essentially the new Pariahs. :0
Also, also, I don’t think the Triarch Stalker is suppose to be more of an infiltrator, shooter thing. I can see them being used as marching to cover, remember they have Move Through Cover, so you just move them into cover closer to the opponent, and if a Dreadnought wants to assault you, it’ll have to get through the cover, and go at I1. That’s it if gets past your 2 Multi-Melta shots that you should have fired at it first….
The pariah warscythe hada gauss blaster built into it.
Maybe its because i play guard, so im used to my walkers being shooting platforms, but the Triarch Stalker is amazing! A 2 shot multimelta is great, and then it has the option of a heavy flamer, meaning it has no weakness in shooting. It has the quantum shielding, which makes it pretty tough, and anything it hits gets markerlighted. If you want to take out a vehicle with it, multi melta will make quick work of it and if for some reason it doesnt, you can now fire your other anti tank weaponry at it twin linked. If you want to take out an infantry unit, heavy flamer them for some damage and boom the rest of the army is twin linked against it. If youre fighting an enemy that NEEDS to be taken down but the Triarch Stalker doesnt have the right guns for it but someone else nearby does, hit them with the flamer for an auto hit, that other unit is now twin linked. Its a beautiful weapon and super tactical.
seems pretty meh tbh for the elites
If you want a nasty combo add some Crypteks with the Tremorstave, they just have to HIT a unit with the blast marker to force them into difficult terrain. You can have 10 crypteks if you want thrown about and can force most if not all of your opponents models to have to take dangerous terrain tests as long as the C’tan is on the board.
Sniper is also pinning… so 10 shots from a rapid-firing 95 point unit could be quite nice. I think the number of rending, pinning shots they can put down sounds quite reasonable for their cost.
Wasn’t expecting this so fast
Well the Deathmarks look great – at least they have that I think you missed the part where each Deathmark unit that arrives on the table gets to choose a target each. So you can have 3 units on the board that hit on 3′s and wound on 2′s against 3 seperate targets. If you can rapid fire you can get between 10 to 20 sniping shots off, all wounding the chosen target on 2′s and ignoring saves on 6′s. They could take out monstrous creatures and do some damage to small elite units if you’re lucky enough to get some rending shots off.
As for the Lychguard I’d say T5, 3+, 4++ followed by a 5+ to get back up again (or 4+ with orb lord) is pretty decent. They are expensive (perhaps a little bit too expensive) but for that investment you’ll be adding a Cryptek with either Gaze of Flame, Lightning Field or Seismic Orb – give them Furious Charge from Zahndrek and you have 15 Strength 6 PW attacks at I3 (for 5 of them) on the charge – still not great but if they survive they’ll hit back hard. You could always add Obyron to give them the extra punch they’ll need. It’s a lot of points but if you take them it’s worth giving them the best chance to cause as much damage as possible IMO.
The C’tan Shards aren’t the gods they once were (sadly). I agree most of the abilities aren’t great. Writhing Worldscape can also be used with the Cryptek’s Tremorstaves.
Flayed Ones just needed something else for me. If they had Furious Charge as standard and cost a little more – It’s a shame they’re Finecast at £25.50 for 65pts worth Imotekh can get them to Deep Strike without scattering, but whether you want to or not?
I’m not a fan of the Stalker, if it was 100-120pts and I could take up to 3 in a squadron (which is what the Annihilation Barge is also lacking) then maybe. As it is I don’t think the ability to get twin-linked against a unit is worth it. I’d rather have 10-15 Flayed Ones.
It’s alright to hypothesise what the units are like, but until you try them in battle situations you don’t really know how they’ll work out. They may surprise you or they may be as “Me’h” as you suspect. I feel the ‘crons are all about working together to get the best result.
So to recap Darrell’s appraisal so far is that no Heavy Support is worthwhile (as I’m sure the Death Ray isn’t the uber-weapon of doom), the Troops are “M’eh”, Imotekh is “M’eh”, the Night Scythe is pretty decent and the entire Elites section is “Me’h” to rubbish.
With only 3 Fast Attack slots available is it enough to save the Necrons from a “m’eh” rating? Tune in later to find out
The “meh” rating is coming from a power gamer (not you per se, Darrell ). If you’re just looking to have a fun game with friends than the all the sections covered so far have some nice variety and good looking models to boot.
Agreed, Darrell is looking for something to stomp with at tournaments, so he in his usual fashion is fast tracking through the units to see what is deadly, reliable and repeatable without too much randomness. The fact is that because Darrell is having difficulty finding these things in the codex, it really makes it better for those of us who want to have a game that’s full of story fun and general awesomeness.
Bottom line, the worse Darrell says something is the better it actually is for those who want to have fun.
He truly is the ‘Inverse Gamer!’
Yeah, I know that, I was just jesting
Flayed Ones are currently kinda bad while Deathmarks, Lychguard and Preatorians are rather nice. C’tan Shards are rather sick.
Can the deathmarks deep strike in their transports on the enemy turn with their special rule? Would it be more useful to do so?
I don’t see why not and I don’t think it would as they won’t be able to shoot. I don’t get the Deep Strike in the enemy’s turn (unless it’s changed in 6th Ed) other than to try and move enemy units around the place?
also if you have flayed ones and imotehk the storm lord, you can deep strike yopu flayed ones withen 6″ of a target enemy unit without scattering. that makes flayed ones sooo much better not having to walk across the board.
if you run stalkers or canoptek scarabs run canoptek wraiths with whip coils with them. in the assault phase you move the wraiths to base a dreadnaught, the dreadnaught is then innitiative 1 then your stalker or scarabs get to go first. and the scarabs will shred a drednaught to nothing but quick.
Check out the rules for dedicated transports, because the night scythe would either have to deploy with it’s dedicated squad embarked or nothing embarked and then pick up a unit in it’s travels.
My problem with the Lychguard is that if you give them shields, in order to take advantage of the shield rule you have to drop your 3+ save to a 4+ invul. If its an AP-3 or better weapon, well, its a no brainer. But if it was bolters or pistols etc, then I don’t know about you but the special rule isn’t enough to make me want to have more guys die.
Actually I don’t think you can use the invulnerable save if the shot would allow an armour save, I dont have the page number to hand but I believe the rulebook says something to the effect of “always use the best save available”, so unless the shield has a line that says its allowed to ignore this anything less than ap4 can’t be bounced back.
Warren If you played me with that list of the Difficult/dangerous terrain , i would bring 2 GMs put them on the field and only them hid them and not move them and then 2nd turn i would deepstrike in 5 units of Terminators on a 2+ (because of Pyschic communication from both GMs) and 2 dreadknights and they would all have lots of fun kicking your ass
Orikan and a C’Tan shard with Writhing Worldscape… place your Doomsday Arks within range. Either they don’t move on their turn and their weapons get blasted by your Arks with automatic hits (twice if you happen to go first), or they take the dangerous terrain tests getting to your Arks and run off the board. What a lark!
Another incredibly useful combo I see being faq’d to read more akin to: “Temporal Snares pg 57: At the end of the paragraph add: “Terrain altered by special abilities, weapon abilities, etc is not affected by the Temporal Snares.”
Deathmarks are being undervalued here. So you can deep strike them on your enemies turn in order to get their full movement and shooting in your turn. If you don’t like that you can wait until your immediate turn after his in order to avoid having them shot at. They also wound on a 4+ against everything, and a 2+ against specific targets, so Carnifexes beware.
Another thing to point out, and I’m still not sure if this is a douche move or not, but under the rules for Deep Strike they state that “In that turn’s shooting phase, these units can fire”. I’ll be discussing this with some of the more reasonable people at my FLGS to find out if that makes more or less sense with how the models are described.
Personally I think transports are over-rated, and I’ll be bringing all the Deep Striking shooting I can. Including Crypteks, Deathmarks, and Vargard Obyron.
Some serious cheese I want to point out is the ability to field 9 Night Scythes, which have a Tesla Destructor, Arc ftw.
“In that turn’s shooting phase, these units can fire.” While I like the way you think, and that would definitely be a boon for the Deathmarks, I think most would it’s negated by where that line is. Specifically it’s under the rules for how to deploy reserves during your turn (DS units having to be held in reserve to DS.) Since the Deathmarks’ ability allows them to DS during your opponents turn it would then default to regular turn order.
I can easily see both sides of the argument and both sides have roughly the same amount of ammunition. I’m very curious to see how it gets faq’d.
I have a difficulty with all the ‘deepstrike’ talk going on here. Its great for a fun game with mates, but in truly competitive play its a pretty unreliable form of deployment. (I have lost many untis while deepstriking)
I think this is partly why Darrell is quick to dismiss units that have to rely on a deepstrike to unlock their potential.
Congratulations! You just dismissed Codex: Chaos Daemons from competitive play. Brent from strictlyaverage.com disagrees with you.
That aside, I disagree with the Triach Stalker analysis. You seriously undervalue the synergy it offers; you can advance under the cover of Night Fighting thanks to Imhotek, then light up certain units and make all of your guns firing at them twin-linked. This is really nasty, and it can make horde units explode in ten seconds flat, not to mention tanks.
Just visited strictlyaverage.com looks like Brent hasn’t erm… deepstriked in just yet
Remember to take what we say in context, in the hands of the right player any army has the potential to be great, we can only really cover what we feel for the majority of players. And for the majority Daemons just hasn’t been a particularly competitive army.
If we had to reiterate all the baseline statements in every video there would be no time to discuss anything else.
Interesting take on the Triarch Stalkers but I wonder how effective it would actually be in practice as they can only ‘light up’ one unit at a time if I remember correctly. So you would need to be very careful with their deployment in the first instance.
Looking forward to seeing it in practice though!
I love how you said “just dismissed” like its the first time anyone’s done that…
It’s odd as so many units have deep strike, including the Jump Infantry – you’d think they’d have a Cryptek power which lessens scatter or means they won’t scatter within 6”? The same kind of applied to the Grey Knight Codex.
I agree, I’ve lost many units to deep strike (my brother lost over half an ork army in a game of planetstrike, which was as funny as it was dull) and most of the Necron units are expensive, if only it was a little more reliable. Still with night fighting, units with Night Scythes can speed across the board. It’ll be interesting to see how any competitive armies turn out over the next 6 months or so as it’s not exactly clear cut.
I agree, Necrons have always been about the movement game and Matt Ward has not disappointed on that front.
We have ended up with a very tactically deep army here – that’s easy to paint!
The deathmarks could nominate a unit at the beginning of the game and that would force your opponent to keep them out of the way of the deathmark unit. This could make an elite combat unit stay away from a certain area of the board ?
not really your opponent will just turn enough guns on the death marks to get them out of the way, then he has nothing to worrie about.
Deepstirkes are always risky if you have to roll 2 d6 scatter.
The only benifit the deepstriking in on your opponents movement phase with your death marks is that on your go, they can move, shoot and assault, where if they deepstriked as normal on your go, they could just shoot. You just deep strike them behind cover/out of line of site (if possible, and the dice god’s being kind on the scatter dice), then on your go, come out guns blazing.
For me, the Triarch Stalkers are the winner of the elite section.
Lychguards look awesome, but in the end, what will they do with their Initiative of 2? And you have no reliable transport for them. Deathmarks are “gimmicky”. Not great, not bad. Flayed Ones… I don’t know. Maybe deep strike a big unit behind enemy lines? Or maybe put them in a Nightscythe? But then you need a Monolith in your army, because if the Nightscythe goes down you don’t want your Flayed Ones to enter the table on your side and have to march across the battlefield. Triarch Preatorians: Interestion option here, but I don’t really know what their place is.
Triarch Stalker: He is (initially) better armoured then standard Walkers. He shoots two Multimeltas. You’ll have a Solar Pulse for a first turn of Nightfighting in most armies, so this might help with the range a little bit. And the ability to “tag” an enemy just makes them really interesting. My “imaginary” 2000p army has three of these guys. Seems to be the most reliable ranged anti-tank platform for me. But then its really shortranged, which is a big drawback.
But the issue here is: Against a shooty army like IG or Tau the Stalkers won’t be your best bet. But against combined arms forces or close combat armies, your opponent will come to you anyways. And thats when the Stalkers will shine and shoot Crusaders and Redeemers to pieces.
deep strike your wraiths into difficult terrain near an enemy snipe post. seeing as to how they ignore it for movement. then assault for the fun next turn. i love the whip coils. but the transdimensional beamer is nice. question. how do you randomly select a target. say you opponents has a mob of boyz, how do you “randomly” select the nob?
I can’t wrap my head around the Orikan the Diviner and the C’tan combo for a Dawn of War type game or any game for that matter so maybe a discussion on the topic would help.
First, Orikan can only use this ability in the first game turn. C’tans, at best, have a 50% chance on the second turn to come into play. Is there a rule I am missing allowing C’tans on the table in the 1st turn in Dawn of War?
Second, I have sucessfully argued at my local game store that temporal snares cannot be combined with the C’tan ability. Units that move count as moving through difficult terrain, not that the terrain itself becomes difficult so there is no difficult terrain present for C’tans to make it dangerous. Necron players never agree with me of course so it would be nice to hear thoughts on this that are not bias.
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