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March 8, 2013 by warzan
Video Sponsors: Wayland Games – Mercs
Warren, Mike and Swampy sit down to discuss another section of the new Warriors of Chaos Army Book. This time they are looking at the Special units you can field in this army of the damned!
why do you think chimerae are bad? not saying that i dis/agree with you, just wondering why you said that.
I just think there are better beasts in the army. It also our oppinion and everyone has thier favorites mine is the dragon ogre shaggoth.
I like the new breakdown format, getting full blooded Fantasy players to do it does add something – and should you just stick to the break down in this format who need a full blow week of all things of the “X” army
Good video, a few points I might disagree with:
Chimerea, all god awful model comments stand up, its a terrible model. Trying to find an alternative, those I have found I like I have since found to be rather small, or overly large. However they are manoverable, they deliver a good punch – you forgot to mention thunderstomps (and indeed stomps for ogres/trolls/d.ogres) are idea for roasting chaff with a breath weapon and smashing small elite units. Also the terror can be devestating if you can land them in good spots. As @m1che3l says if you want pile into the front agression shaggoths in the rare section are better, but chimerae are more versatile due to potential breath weapon/flying. Once I can source or convert models I will be looking a fielding 2 on occassions.
(@warzan – as you seem to be rusty on your fantasy stomp + base str attack ignoring parry saves at end of combat for every model in base to base, thunderstop = d6 hits)
Ogres I would field as 8-4 wide 2 deep as per swampy as they are not going to be your main combat force. If they are why aren’t you playing an ogre kingdom list?
D.ogre I would only filed in units of 4, or the frontage becomes too large, and no point doing ranks of three as monsterous beasts only get a single attack from second rank.
Fully agree with the chosen and war alter comments – although if I was using choosen as a bodygaurd unit I would expand them up to 20 ish.
The gorebeast chariot is good, but I will be using my khorne jugger chariots as counts as – thats a fugly model.
Oh if you want a monster army check out Ben Curry’s Bad dice daily lists – 2 deamon princes, 5 chariots, 3 chimerea, 2 shaggoths as a fun but scary army. http://baddice.co.uk/daily180/ – Ben is great for finding out what happening at tourney level and has an amazing understanding of the rules, great listen as well.
All good points I wont disagree with that but its our oppinions we are talking about. I going to the throne of skulls next weekend and doubt I will se that list as I dont think in 2000 points 2deamon princes will work there is nothing to stop magic.
Completely, your not forced into a list – you can do solid characterful lists. The ‘local’/ group meta will determine what works and what doesn’t. Also it depends what you want from your army – something I feel with GW sometimes means compromising your chances of winning – but this book is actually a really solid release
Have fun, and good luck
Cheers it always good to se other opinions and other peoples ideas on how to use them. Is thieranything in the book u not to keen on or dont like?
In all honest my big problem was I felt new releases were uninspired in model terms. I cannot see myself getting much use out of either of the new big beasties – vortex beast will eat power dice I would rather save for wizards – nurgel lore attribute is amazing, and slaaneshi one is pretty good as well. The maulerfiend just strikes me as not standing upto the shaggoth as a choice, add in model dislike and that kills it.
Personally I favour warrior heavy with chariot support – with home made characters – I would of like to of seen a few more power only items but thats a minor and risks overall balance. I know locally a lot of players are hitting the monsterous cavalry and I am not a fan given every army (bar orcs) seems to be getting some.
I don’t rate the seekers of slaanesh as a unit – although the discussion on their point values may make me rethink – I just think they are rather gimicky as opposed to a well rounded addition. Dragon ogres I think are also in an odd spot – they fall in between bloodcrushers and ogres but do neither role as well, may be missing something will try with the old models and see what they can deliver.
All i can say is FINIALLY !! a series of videos that has opinions that arnt just based on the tournement scene(much better than the Vampire Counts week of just use zombies = win any other tactic was just discarded and not disscused), I mean my favorite part of this video was the answer to the question about how would you use the chaos orges? a full unit of 18!! just brilliant thats how i imagine orges would fight run at you and hit you like a run away frieght train. I dont play orges or woc (yet, but i have plans too as part of my 3 themed chaos armies and the ideas that are being generated game wise and fluff wise is just awesome) but i do own 18 minotaurs and 2 doombulls who could be just as brutal by the looks of it used the same way.
Also really like the way these videos have been produced with the questions asked from a new players point of view to the answers given of “personally prefference” and more than one tactic or weapon/mark loadout given a fair arguement, not just you should run “xyz” unit this way because is just good/broken, just shows the experence and depth of knowlegde of @m1cha3l & Swampy( would love to bounce ideas off you guys for beastmen) Well done keep it up, finding these really helpful for the know thy foe aspect atm, looking forward to the rest of these and any other army books you do, Beastmen would be nice ( give the older books some love not just gw “X” flavour of the month)
Even as a more experienced player who disagrees with some points they are fantastically put together videos and the whole not dismissing units is a real positive.
I know I mention Ben Curry and his tournament focused podcast but its not a scene I want to be involved in currently. I find the discussions and tactics interesting though.I just view things from the view of players I face regularly.
Beastmen are a tricky one @yraider1989 as now they are block infantry they have lost a lot of mobility and the infantry is not particularly hard hitting or durable. Not saying its not possible but often you are looking to magic lores to augment the troops in combat – and not using the beasts deck.
Minotaur blocks can works and if they can win a couple of combats they get to insane damage output levels. There is an intersting if slightly tournament focused beastman review on the hammertime podcast. Big issue monotaurs have is lack of access to heavy armour and the d6 pursuit, meaning you often have to break a unit multiple times, and end up in bad positions. – although I have a unit of 8, inc doombull, in my beast contigent of my chaos force. You also need support units to ensure you can get the minotaurs to fight units of your choosing, not the opponents but thats try of an infantry unit.
I personally like centigor but have never really got them working – chariots are massive for the beastmen, and even though they are don’t count towards your core I never use em without 2 packs of chaos hounds and I want to add some ungor raiders. when I revisit it them I want to add in a jabberslyth just love the model and think there is something there I could get working. But I have way to many projects and minis.
Beastmen difficult army in general but never over look the ambush rule as it makes your opponent react and I always find they make mistakes to capatlise on as 2blocks of 18 gors turn up behind them on on either flank.
I tried to laugh with the “two pounds per model, it is GW but its not that bad yet” but chaos knights are four pounds per model.
@dags & @m1cha3l – cheers for the help. I’m not in the tournement scene either so for me its all about just having good fun games, with out getting absolutly getting smashed of the table casue thats no fun. And as for the many projects on the go yeah i think i fit that discription too – magpie syndrome is rather annoying but fun at the same time.
I actually like the chaos lord on the manitcore model and I thought of fielding a chimerae with him. I figure in my group dealing with two flying monsters would be a headache for people. I don’t mind the model really either.
Hellstriders are a joke, for the points.
The trolls section got me good … *blah*! I plan to use quite a number of them.
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