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August 3, 2010 by warzan
Darrell takes us through the rule changes for the Dwarf Cannon looking specifically at Grapeshot.
Umm, sorry to nitpick, but For the Article title cannon is spelled wrong and you used the wrong “to”.
Warren’s dyslexia shining through there! Fixed now
Heh, being dyslexic is fnu.
ah, the joys of dishing out large amounts of shrapnel at close range
Isn’t that what Darrell excells at?
I’d rather the crew charge out. But I suppose in terms of grape shot it is an improvement for the defending cannons point of view. Now make us a rule where they kick out the block to the cannon, so the whole thing rolls down the hill into the mobs while jam packed with black powder, fuse sizzling and barrel blocked.
Oh and rocks and scrap together? *Spark spark spark*
I like the new grapeshot rule compared to the old template way. Though I had lots of fun with the template and trying to kill stuff up close, this is an improvement overall.
Hmmm, interesting to see that they basically went back to the way it was. In 6th edition grapeshot caused an artillery dice worth of HITS, but only at strength 4 and a range of 8″.
Grapeshot seems to be a half-range, semi-accurate version of an Organ Gun (appropriate to use Dwarfs then: in fact, a conversion of a Dwarf Cannon with an Organ Gun set underneath/on top to represent their grapeshotting).
It means less necessity for having a template with you, but I feel like it should probably be automatic hits.
Rules are rules though, so I guess that’s how I’ll play it
I do like the simplicity, rather than trying to count how many models are touched by a template, but the chance to misfire, followed by the chance to miss, followed by the chance to not cause any wounds, followed by the chance that they may make their armour saves means it feels a little like it’s not as devastating as it could (maybe should be).
Still, desperate measures mean that it’s better than no grapeshot
Actually, automatic hits would be unrealistic. Even though you are shooting a number of objects the odds of them hitting are rather low. Best example I can think of is from Deadliest Warrior, were the Mongols Hornet Nest shot out 30 rocket arrows and only hit 2-3 guys out of 12.
As unrealistic as when the organ gun does it?
I’d also like to point out that the rules aim for ease of play before accurate realism: consider the ranges of things. For example, a longbow has 32″ range, but in this scale, it should have something around the 720″ range mark to be accurate. Compromises need to be made.
Not to mention, the rolling to wound at least partially represents them missing.
720″ range?? More like 250″
I was basing it on a number that I had previously been given. Plus, a LONGbow only being able to shoot approximately 250′ in real life? It must have an incredulously low draw rating.
As a final note: even if it were “only” 250″, do you not think that that would be more than just a little bit of a ridiculous sized playing board to use?
I thought that is how cannon would be used, though “historically” that may have been later.
Firstly I mean that I see the setting of WHFB as mediaeval/renaissance. Secondly, that there would be grapeshot used. blunderbuss stylee for close range devastation to break up enemy formations.
On a gaming note, skirmishers can’t be spread out thinly now unless I’m mistaken. This makes grapeshot even more attractive
sorry if I am talking nonsense as I’ve not had chance to play the new system yet
The blunderbuss never actually was designed for spreadshot, that’s what the shotgun was invented for The blunderbuss was for ease of loading, hence it being a good choice for someone on the move (such as coachmen).
However, having said that, the Chaos Dwarf rules for the blunderbuss match what you’re saying, so you’re right in that sense, lol
Where do you get those sound effects for those video intros?
The 12″ range of Grapeshot makes it a very viable alternative to a cannonball, and making it 12 inch range means more of a chance of getting it off than the old template needing them to be really close, which usually meant they were charging you anyway and you can write off that cannon as a casualty.
Isn’t the strength 5 against their toughness 2 to wound so you got 6 wounds ? Yeah I like it have used it already and its a lot simpler. Cannon would have used grapeshot historically, again as described a collection of anything to hand. this later developed into canister shot, specifically designed to fire at close range, against lite troops, effectively turning the gun into a big shotgun. I think myself that the dwarves would use canister shot, as their machines use shells, where empire, being slightly behind them technoligacally would use grape loads (they dont have shells…yet ) anyhow thats my nonsense done here. Good vid!
I thing that grapeshot in 8th edition is awsome much better than grapeshot in 7th edition.
Firing a grapeshot which is composed of small sharp objects and having to roll for a hit is nonsense. Helblaster, Organ Gun and grapeshot should all be auto-hit weapons/attacks. Even a monkey can fire it and anihilate a group of over eager warriors coming to close. I mean, all you have to do is just point the cannon towards them, shoot and forget about them, no precise aiming is required because the grapeshot has a very wide range of fire. Just my 5 cents here.
Watch Darrell thieve a dice at 3:57!
Hey Darell, well I’m an ogre player as well and personally, I did not enjoy my game vs the dwarfs. My opponent had 3 cannons at d6 wounds instead of d3 and 2 organ cannons. Hmmm In round 3 I had 1 gorger left, 2 ironguts left from a unit of 8, another 4 guts left on a unit of 8, a scrapluncher, a tyran and a bruiser on a 2500pts game. Sounds unbalanced to me : ( Maybe you have some advise?
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