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February 20, 2012 by beerogre
Video Sopnsors: Battle Foam – Infinity
Declan has submitted another Warmachine list for us to peruse… what will the guys think of his new Khador army?
well by getting the butcher you gain a point so you dont need to drop the wardog
You say to submit lists for this type of review. Where?
In a previous video they said to send them to email@example.com
Right guys, the suggestion that Sorcha isn’t a great starter caster just isn’t true. Between Wind Rush for mobility & DEF and Fog of War to help out DEF; she has the goods for a starter to run around and is pretty survivable. On average she sits on DEF 20 against both ranged and melee if you take the old doggie for a point. She makes Khador’s slow stuff fairly OK by speeding it up and has both knockdown and freeze effects for assassination runs.
If I can I’d like to suggest an alternate 25 pnt expanded list based on the Starter Box which is easy enough to run and pick up for a starting player.
Kommander Sorscha (*5pts) * Destroyer (9pts) * Destroyer (9pts) * War dog (1pts) Battle Mechaniks (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts) Man-o-war Shocktroopers (Leader and 2 Grunts) (6pts) Winter Guard Mortar Crew (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
This list takes advantage of Sorcha’s feat to freeze everything in her LOS and shoot a caster. Knocking down screens of jacks/beasts or infantry with Tempest if needed. She in this way sorts out the big problem khador ranged stuff has; hitting.
Other additions include the mechanics who are just there to keep your jacks in the game and act as a LOS blocker for Sorcha if things get dicey. The Mortar Crew which has a higher POW and range of 20. The mortar can also be used to hunt stealth solos as it has a big AOE and blast damage can often kill models with stealth, try and put it on a hill.
If anyone has any comments on this list or the lads want to respond feel free.
5 + 9 + 9 + 1 + 2 + 6 + 3 = 35. You’re 10 points over your stated target.
Baummonster below is correct, casters and warlocks add points to an army.
Is a great resource for list building.
Nope it actually is 25. You dont add up the 5 points from Sorscha, you substract them from the first warjack
@brass – As I’ve said time and again, “bad” is a very relative term in Warmachine.
The Butcher is just a much better Warcaster to start off with…
1) Better (if not THE BEST) melee power 2) Higher ARM (he won’t die as readily to Fire) and good DEF with Iron Flesh 3) More damage boxes 4) In small point games, he’s a One-Man-Army, with Reach and Weaponmaster thrown in. 5) Has some potent warjack buffs 6) A feat that boosts melee and ranged attack damage
Compared to Sorscha he’s the complete package and very strong at 15pts.
Hey Andy, I would agree that the Butcher is a simpler caster to learn, than Sorscha is. But what the Butcher can’t get around is the biggest Khador weakness. They are slower than cold molasses. This means that khador under the butcher still has the problem that they can’t get their hitting power where they need it. I on the other hand would always suggest Vladimir the Dark Prince as a starting point for khador. He is still a melee monster under blood of kings (not as much as the butcher okay but still….) and he has the best support spell in the game and has a possibility to speed up his heavy hitters. So he has a bit of everything and his spells are straight forward, so pVlad would a be a much better starter caster in my oppinion.
Now I love me a bit of Butcher, but as Knubbl points out bellow he’s slow. I think for starting players slow casters, you can’t over extend are a tough play (I speak from experience with my first casters a year or two ago being Sorcha, Butcher, eBucther and Karchev).
In smaller games especially movement shenanigans and assassination runs are business of the day. In this world butcher has a few enemies that mean a lot of his self buffing and focus mean nothing. One of the most widespread solos out there is the two Eiryss. The epic version in particular annoys the hell out of medium base butcher relying on focus and a upkeep which she strips off with one shot at RAT 9, more if aiming.
So in summary though Butcher is a interesting and all round fun caster, he sometimes can’t get where he needs to go and often can get him self assassinated if you are not keeping him very hidden.
Why not consider Harkevich? if you are just starting with the battlebox, but havent assembled anything yet buy harkeich and the black ivan upgrade so the force would now be harkevich (5 WJP) Juggernaught – 7 Black Ivan – 10 5 Manowar shock troopers – 9 Manowar Kovnik – 3 wardog – 1
this gives you 25 points, plus tier 2 on Harkevichs tier list. harkevich and black ivan is an amazing combo, broadside allowing the bombard, shield cannon, harkys gun and axe cannon to fire twice, you could let the kovnik jack marshall the jugger if you want for the drive.
If someone is wanting to build on what you get from the 2 player set, then I don’t really see why people are suggesting the Jacks to be anything other than the Jug and Destroyer.
The Butcher has the signature Iron Flesh spell that is so loved by Khador, and is a relatively straight forward caster to play, in addition to giving out that extra Jack Point, making him a solid choice. With the boxed set, he has the added bonus of having a unit that can block LoS to him.
If you’re wanting a change from Sorsha, he’s certainly an attractive alternative with his very different play style.
As a sidenote, Sorsha + Windrush + Wardog is not defense 20 against range, because the Wardog defense bonus only helps out with melee attacks. I’d argue that Sorsha is a bit more selfish with her focus.
If people are wanting a Ret list to critique, I can offer up the one I used at the weekend.
Rahn (+6) Manticore 8 Pheonix 10
Battle Mages 5 Stormfall Archers 5
Mage Hunter Assassin 2 Arcanist 1
Obviously not a tip top list though, because I’m using 2 heavy Jacks (but then, I got into this game to use big stompy things).
you are right of course that the war dog only gives +2 def in melee but wind rush and fog of war and you are on 20 def against ranged and magic attacs
The one thing you really need to look out for is being knocked down or having someone slammed through the poor old girl.
for newbies, that 1 point could be used for reinholdt gobber speculator. You can pre measure which will be huge for newbies.
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