Securing The Future Of OnTableTop [Radio Show Discussion Added]
October 13, 2020 by warzan
Click Here For The Recorded Cult Radio Discussion (Warning: Strong Language)
2020 didn’t quite turn out to be the year we had all been expecting, did it? It has been a year that would stretch the innovation and resources of any small business. Like many, we have seen aspects of our organisation surge in growth and other aspects slow down.
The last six months have been an eye-opener for myself and Lloyd as business owners as we look at the possible lay of the land including its risks and more importantly its opportunities.
Over the last few weeks, we have been in close contact with the management team at Wayland Games Ltd. and have as of yesterday reached an agreement to sell OnTableTop and merge it into the much larger organisation.
During this process, we have met some wonderful and caring folk within Wayland’s management who share our passion for innovation, community and just trying to get better at what we do!
As we worked with them it became clear that we all had an opportunity to bring the best of what we have together and really do some great things in the gaming industry. Wayland Games have become an absolute powerhouse over recent years and have stepped in with resources, infrastructure and scale to allow us to take the platforms we have been developing to the next level. Ultimately, they have also provided our gaming communities with the best tools, content and community platforms we can create.
By joining this larger family we are being given the opportunity to create all manner of things to help improve your gaming lives and provide even more fun and innovative opportunities for amazing companies and game designers we work with.
I’ll be honest. Lloyd and I have some mixed emotions about the whole thing. We have worked our little socks off to build and grow this platform, and packaging up that ten-year labour of love to a new owner does leave a little lump in the throat.
However, both Lloyd and I have a 360-degree view of the business, the industry and its community. We see the infrastructure required, the industry trends and the opportunities appearing plus the costs and risks involved in attempting to seize those opportunities.
This then was an opportunity we decided to seize. It not only secures the long term future of the platform and community but the opportunity to bring forward some of the exciting projects and ideas that we have been sitting on was irresistible!
Going forward there will be a relatively short period of integration where we can capitalise on the significant and well-oiled infrastructure the team at Wayland has built. This will heavily free up the time of myself and other key team members, to turn our sights to the future.
So yes, Lloyd myself and the team are all sticking around and will continue to be completely involved. Securing the future of our team and community during these troubled times was a decision we did not take lightly and we are looking forward to the journey ahead with you guys and gals!
This is another milestone in the "Beasts Of War" project. Many of you have been on this journey from the start, and we look forward to many more years with you both online and at events all over the world.
Join Us For A Discussion On The Future
I (Warren) will be hosting a live "Town Hall" in the Discord Server during the Live Cult Radio Show (8pm BST Wednesday 14th October) to chat about all of this and answer any questions I can. You are all very welcome to tune into that or even call in to ask questions.
Click Here For The Recorded Cult Radio Discussion (Warning: Strong Language)
Join Us On Discord
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I’m sure we will talk about the last time we tried this and what has changed since then!
OK, folks, onwards and upwards!
I thought BoW started out with Wayland Games? Or did BoW just have a close relationsip with Wayland in the early days. Many a weekender did I watch in the early times and Waylands name came up quite a bit, so it should be a good fit.
Both teams became a thing around the same time, so we have known each other for a long time now.
I remember a previous partnership with Wayland Games and I also remember it having to come to an end (which I think was some kind of legal issue at the time). So as surprising as the announcement is, the choice of partner is not a surprise and given the evolution of both businesses, I actually think that it could be a very promising move.
I also think that Wayland’s reputation is perhaps tarnished somewhat by the sins of the past. I have had issues with them and for a while I stopped buying from them (not least because I don’t actually live very far from Element Games). However I have purchased a number of items from them recently and found that the service is vastly improved and the webstore is really good with live stock levels. Obviously the real proof is how they deal with things when they go wrong, however if you get nearly everything right the mistakes don’t matter so much.
I would really like some kind of video update about this when you have more details, until I wish the whole of the OnTableTop team all the best in the future.
Very sensible and balanced.
I get it. People have had bad experiences with Wayland. So have I. But I have had bas experiences with element games too. And amazon and so on. It stings when it happens and you want to lash out. But I realized a truth quite some time ago. Generally when you do that the only person you actually affect is yourself. Wayland games obviously get more than enough things right to continue trading so if I choose not to buy who is losing out and what point am I really making? And if I react this way to every company who gives me a bad customer service environment how long before there is nobody left who I can buy from? Sometimes you just have to suck it up and get on with life. If a retailer has actually broken the law and victimised you in some way the maybe you have grounds for not associating with them. If it’s just poor customer service experiences then you probably need to do a bit of introspection on that. Businesses tend not to make decisions based on emotion, a lesson customers should pay heed to
Why spend money with a bad business when there are plenty of good ones to support. Always had 5star service from OTT store. Just had some great customer service from Orcs Nest (owner went in to the store, checked stock, emailed me, and posted the order to me the same day).
Any number of reasons
Because eventually ALL retailers will give you a bad experience. If you cut your nose off to spite your face you will find that there is nobody left to buy from.
Because sometimes you can’t find the item you want elsewhere or a particular retailer happens to be offering a better price
Because a bad experience does not mean that all experiences will be bad
If I put my mind to it I can probably think of more. Basically you should try and remain pragmatic
Hi @onlyonepinman it’s great to here you’ve had good experiences. We also think that with a bit of work this has great promise 🙂
“I would really like some kind of video update about this when you have more details” well I know @warzan has plans to talk more about it at 8pm BST Wednesday 14th October Discord Server in a live chat.
I don’t really do discord to be honest. But I am sure more information will be made available when it’s available
You gotta put you and your families first, best of luck to you all.
I have loved watching beasts of war grow to what it is now over the years, what does this mean for the future? I really hope the videos continue, watching the weekender each Sunday feels like I’ve got my mates round for brew, we all need you guys in our lives…
I said this on Facebook and I am going to repeat it here:
A few people seem to be focusing on Wayland and their stock practices … I really am not worried about this, I like OTT for the content and for the people making that content (Warren, Lloyd, Gerry, Justin, John and sexy furious Ben) and as long as that continues I am happy.
Wow – I’m not sure how I feel about this – sad I think.
I mean, it’s great if it means you can continue to push OTT forward. But I know within my gaming community there is a very low opinion of Wayland – in particular their inability to run an effective online store. So much so, that none of us use them any more. And if they cannot manage that, how are they going to manage something as brilliantly diverse as OTT?
Either way, if you are still here, I’m still here supporting you and wishing you all at OTT the best of luck in your new adventure.
Like you say we are still here and your still here @berger15 – thanks for the support, we hope to keep you informed and entertained far into the future.
Hopefully you won’t feel sad for to long 🙂
@lloyd I think I’m sad more because you and @warzan have had to sell the business you built up. Something I’ve watched change and evolve into a thriving hub, with a diverse range of gaming coverage, a brilliant community and where the hobby comes first – there is so much support for each other here. And it’s sad to see you have to relinquish that control to someone else, who may not have that same belief. I suppose I also fear that not all CoGs will be happy to support Wayland in the same way they support you – and that would be a shame.
Hopefully it will all work out great and I’m just doing my usual “worrying about change for nothing”. 🙂
Happy for you guys and glad that you have a good outlook on the future! You’ve had my support throughout the years and that won’t change now 🙂
Thanks @neves1789
I’m sounding like a broken recorded, but people like you have been a godsend for helping OTT become what it is 🙂
OTT/BOW was a major factor in getting back into the hobby nearly a decade ago and its been a pleasure supporting you for all these years. On a personal level best of luck with the future and this is all perfectly understandable as it hasn’t been a great year, the gaming centre obviously couldn’t flourish and you have families to look after.
On Wayland Games I did use them at the beginning – partly because of the BoW connection and had nothing but problems with every order. There is no reason for me to go back as a customer, but maybe things have changed and other parts of the company are better as I’d like Firestorm Armada to flourish. I hope it works out for you as you want it to. Change is inevitable and OTT will change. Whether or not I’ll still be drawn to OTT as before we’ll see.
Hey @captainventanus – glad we got you back on the plastic crack!
Here’s to a few more years 🙂
Sorry to hear the change is necessary but glad to hear you will all be sticking around. All the best on your new adventure with all of you on board it’s going to a success. Look forward to seeing where yourselves and Wayland take this project together.
Cheers @ands
Wow … this is big.
I felt a little sad when I saw th title, but I think it’s best not to dwell on the negative emotions this sort of news tends to invoke.
BoW survived the transition to OTT and (dare I say it?) it became the better hobby community/website as a result.
Fresh blood, new faces, more content …
And now this.
I’ve only ever heard of ‘Wayland games’ by name (didn’t they help with the Starwars Legion stuff for the virtual bootcamp ?), so can’t comment on what they are like.
However I do trust the decision by the OTT team for it to be a good one.
Best of luck with taking over the world of hobby one step at a time.
Does this mean the OTT Store will transition into Wayland Webshop ?
If they do then I hope they copy the indexing/category from OTT, because it’s a hell of a job finding anything there.
Anyways … think happy thoughts and sending positive waves.
“BoW survived the transition to OTT and (dare I say it?) it became the better hobby community/website as a result.
Fresh blood, new faces, more content …”
Thanks @limburger that was a big decision too and thanks for your trust 🙂
Much like @sundancer,i’m torn in different directions ( i’m not good with change either ),but a business has to grow and evolve,which BoW/OTT certainly will with Wayland ( I second the suggestion of the fabled SAGA Let’s Play ).I found BoW after a friends recommendation and stayed for the people,the Let’s Plays and the many,many laughs I’ve had watching your shows ( although my need for mind bleach has gone up because of them as well ).
ah mind bleach, well I think you will need plenty more lol
I should get shares in the stuff…
I have to say I’m surprised by this announcement. I genuinely hope that it works for both parties but I would be lying if I I said I had no reservations about aligning with Wayland games. It’s been quite a while since I last used them because of your store and the difference in experience is world’s apart. I suppose the two initial concerns I have are over targeted marketing to align with what’s on sale in store and with key partners; and the potential loss of the independent stockist from getting an advertising boost. Your Indy of the week segment has been excellent at promoting these guys and I’d doubt very much they would have viable business models to sell via a third party if that’s the way it goes to get air time on the site. I know you guys do the tongue in cheek “buy merch!” Thing but now you have a partner who’s key business is selling us a “captive audience “ if you will, I fear the tongue in cheek attitude will take on a more serious tone.
I genuinely wish you all the very best with this venture, I have got so much out of it over the years and met some brilliant people through the forums, bootcamps and helping out at UKGE. If it secures your future as a team then I’ll back it 100%
But tongue in cheek attitude is our thing!
Glad your having a good time on the site and thanks again for your help at UKGE! @brucelea
Oh well, change is the only constant.
sure is mate.
Wow. Are you guys back off to Essex again? 😉
One thing is I guess the industry’s changed a lot now that Wayland are allowed to talk to you without GW getting cross.
Best of luck to all concerned from a past, and future CoG.
Nobody in Essex could understand me lol
That’s ok.We ( people outside of Essex ) don’t understand them either.
First, congrats @warzan and @lloyd!
Second, and this might get covered in the town hall session, so no need to update here, what about the content we CoGs have uploaded to the site? One of the reasons I’ve been comfortable using BoW/OTT (especially the project system) over social media platforms has been the the trust in the owners that the content won’t be used for their purposes, and I know the team genuinely cares for our privacy. All that has to be reviewed as the ownership changes. If we’re not comfortable with the change, will there be a way to export our data and have it erased from the platform?
Thanks @guillotine we will keep you guys posted.
So, as many, I’ve been having a difficult year, in fact I’ve not logged into BoW for about 10 months I think, I have 200+ notifications when I just looked.
Hobby has been on a backburner for many reasons, but I saw the notice of an announcement on twitter and had to look.
I thought the time when you were partnered with Wayland before produced some really great content, so I’m pretty positive about the changes.
I know personally how difficult it can be to let go of a business you built up, I remember the erection of Studio One in the garden and so on, you guys put everything into this and I’ve always respected you all for that.
My backstage sub will keep going, and I hope I’ll be able to actually be a part of the hobby again at some time before this god forsaken year is done.
Good luck to everyone and I am looking forward to what will come.
Thanks @nogginthenog hope you have a better year in 2021 and get back into a bit of hobby.
Now that is some news, hope it all goes well for you.
But the bigger question is when will Wayland buy Yutani? 😉 And yes I know it was the ohter way round in the Alien universe.
Yutani humm, some time in 2099 I think.
Well this is I have to say was a bit of a shock… I personally have had issues with Wayland Games… However if this basically removes the sales element of OTT to allow the guys to concentrate on providing content and things like Bootcamps I am in support.
I just hope there is iron tight contracts that protect the team and make sure WG can’t fuck up a good thing.
Were going to keep doing our thing mate 🙂
Having worked with several of the studio team over the last couple of years and having created content for them, all I can say is welcome to what feels like a family more than anything!
Hi @huckleberry, glad to here that mate 🙂
That was a surprise, but when I first saw the facebook post saying there was an important announcement I thought you were closing down, so this is better. I can only assume that with the difficulties of 2020 it was either this or go bust, so I will force myself to view this positively.
I hope this works out for everybody at OTT and perhaps alleviates some of the stress @lloyd and @warzan must have been under since the lockdown.
closing down – nope we are sticking around like a bad smell lol and 2020 has been a Mind Melter for sure @danlee.
This one caught me by surprise but with hindsight I suppose it shouldn’t have given the uncertain state of the world. I look forward to seeing you go from strength to strength with this new direction and best of wishes for the future to all the team.
I hope, for all our sakes, that this will be a success for you all. I fully believe that you guys can stay relevant and entertaining regardless of who owns the business, as long as they do not try to leash you all. I know business is business, so I hope there will be no screw jobs. Good luck guys. I will stay around as long as you guys do.
Hey guys, best of luck with the new chapter, quite the surprise to see! Just got myself home from a manic day and am having a read.
I love you guys and all that you have created over the years, Its awesome having such an organisation from “home” and Ive always looked up to you all!
I haven’t dealt with Wayland for years after having been put off, cant remember what all happened to do that, just know that Ive gone everywhere else since! My only real concern is loosing you guys as my local store so to speak, You have provided fantastic customer service and the whole shebang. Will have to see how that all plays out I suppose!
But yes I wish you all the best of luck and hopefully things will improve for years to come. PS fu*k 2020!
Marty
Congratulations, I hope that you give yourselves a couple of days off to celebrate.
Thanks for the good times thus far: I have enjoyed the OTT innovations in the hobby space.
Hopefully you keep on collaborating with such luninaries as Corvus Belli, Firelock games, Mythic Games and Warlord (to name but a few).
I look forward to what you will be able to produce next.
All the best.
So there is possibility that OTT might be able become even bigger with backing of bigger group. That is if it doesn’t require you guys to work yourselves to death because that wouldn’t be good at all.
Goodness I hope this all works out and it doesn’t change what makes the team great. I’ll remain optimistic that it’s all for the best in an uncertain world. Good luck with the change. Interesting future for all if us.