Happy Sunday Brothers and Sisters of CoG!

******It’s the XLBS Show******

Grab your favorite drink, something to snack on, and be prepared for the OTT crew to lay some gaming wisdom on us man! (I’m hoping for a Mindbender. Or have those been abandoned as of late?)

For the record @warzan I’d be up for a ‘Snail Mail version of CogitoLudos’

I wonder what could be Waren’s Huge Regret???

As to the question of the day, what have I been working on? Well……..I’ve been churning away on my FLames of War Beach Assult setup. 3D Printing like a madman and painting infantry!

Also, I did take a breather to 3D Print a Stormtrooper Lander. It’s officially known as the ‘AAL-1971/9.1 Troop Transport’. What you might call a space version of the Higgins boat! It’s the design from Star Wars Episode 7, you know the one with the ramp in front that drops and the Stormtroopers come pouring out of. I figure that the design must have existed during the time of the Empire and not created by the First Order.

My printer is not big enough to print the whole thing at one time on the proper scale for Star Wars: Legion, so I had to chop it in half in the software and then print it as bow and stern. I needed to do lots of sanding to true up both halves, as the bases seemed to curl up just a bit at the corners. Does anyone have a fix for this? Really annoying, but only seems to happen sometimes and usually on the larger prints.

I still have to do some sanding and I’m sure a little putty work. Then more sanding to smooth out the print lines. Luckily I printed in 0.1mm so the lines are pretty tight but still there. Print time took about 3 days total for both halves of the model combined.

Happy Sunday…

@avernos – photocopied???

Go older school than that.

How about a gestetner machine?

Friends of mine used to use manual typewriters and carbon paper to produce pages that would go onto one a gestetner machine to produce their SF fanzines.

https://fanlore.org/wiki/Gestetner

Happy Sunday

Normally I’ve sucked at cyphers Cogito Ludus but this one is your own fez code at play. Woot! Laketown means those boats I sent will get used. Good to hear that there’s gaming potential from Pay It Forward.

Happy Sunday to my Cog brothers and sisters.

I saw an item online where various tests on skeletons that were from Sea Peoples graves that suggests they came from the Iberia

Happy Sunday all! Quick question (as I have a box of knights incoming next week…), beyond the COG Ankh is there any defined Cog heraldry that I could sneak in surreptitiously to the paint scheme on minis?

The point of points? Good question. Let us know when equal points = equal forces. I always seem to chose the high quality, low quantity, high point value factions like Grey Knights, FoW Germans, KoW Ogres, etc. when everyone else chooses the “Quality of Quantity” forces. After being swamped numerous times by the ravening hordes, I need points in a game to reflect the relative ability to kill an equivalent value before dying. In other words, I want my single X that cost, say, 20 points, to be able to kill four+ of the 5 point enemies before succumbing to the buckets of dice that they roll. Gone would be the days when 10 space marines with their 20 shots a round couldn’t stand toe-to-toe against the mob of 60 orcs with their 120+ shots( or their 200+ melee attacks when they charge). And both sets of miniatures would still sell.
[Please note: it has been many years and way too many editions since I played some of these games and so I don’t know the current values/quantities.}

5th Edition 40K = Best Edition 40K

I love armies that need to be built with Troops as a core since well that’s what armies are built from.

On the other hand I also really like those special lists that let you build things like Tank Companies or Elite Formations but they should have some balancing features to them.

As a general rule I much prefer a game includes points rather than not include them. You can use them if you like but they are also a great way to balance any of your own lists. I don’t mind people who like to Stomp others for their fun, I don’t even mind being the person getting stomped my only issue is when those people who like to Stomp break a game to the point that it’s unplayable (like 8th is to me) with rules like being able to charge without line of sight, being able to consolidate into combat, being able to charge as many units as you like and it just goes on from there. I had a game of 8th (that was fun I’m not salty it was a genuinely fun experience) with an hour long first half of a first turn that consisted of him moving his army then charging units into half of my army before I had even taken a single action, that unit then slaughtered me (Guard) and then because the rules said so he was able to pin a huge chunk of the rest of my force down just by consolidating into it. Which meant my whole first turn was just disengaging. That is not a balanced game and no amount of points is going to fix that.

Points shouldn’t be the only thing used to balance a game, objectives are a giant balancing factor so many companies ignore. Jim and I have played many games of Valour and Victory and not once has the Insurgent Force ended the game with more than one or two units on the table but they win about half the time. They have very different ways to win the game than the Free World Forces.

Games need side plots. Everyone should go out and buy Muskets and Tomahawks to start using them immediately and a few random events which are quite mild every now and then makes a game very interesting.

a Christmas/Easter Surprise ?
That’d be cool.

Happy Sunday!!

Anyone else OCDing over the owlbear’s and Sean Connery’s tassles being red instead of yellow? Is this perhaps a next level of cultist?

I would be up for snail mail but you’d have to send me the Christmas one in June so that it will get here on time 🙂

How do you get on the list for CogitoLudos?

Happy Sunday!

IHIWIMO – I regret letting KS dominate my hobby meaning that thanks to FOMO I backed some projects that I shouldn’t have. They just consume money, storage space and patience. I now therefore have IHIWIMO – In Hindsight I Wish I’d Missed Out!

Talking of Big Ears…

Why do elephants have Big Ears? Noddy won’t pay the ransom.

I feel for Warren – a lot of cash to drop on a project that may not be fully loved. I have had one of those Laketown houses for a few years. It is nice but limited – one reason I only have the one! I think the lesson (the one I believe that Warren was making) is pausing in the moment of excitement at the start of a project and plan what it is really for and what stories are to be told. I would love to see more Laketown from GW but being fair to them, it is a Licensed Product (so true scale) and there to support a specific scenario for their game (the set of three houses being the otimum for that). There is a lot of screen time (and fighting) around those walkways and houses, and (from memory) much of the rest of Laketown (bar sweeping arial shots) is mostly around generic locations – boat, wharf, market, town square, outside of an armoury, inside of an armoury, etc. There is the scene of the Windlass and Smaug, but there is little seen of the tower and it is not a great tactical games – dragon versus period light artillery.

So the product is probably fine for what it was designed for – supporting a scenario for a specific game, and staying within the constraints of a license. Not quite the thing for Warren.

One can use the GW Goblin town walk ways for expansion with a but of light conversion. They are (were) available as separate items (just the walk ways).

I think from memory that laketown kit was a concept that GW had kicking around since the first outing of the LoTR game back circa 2003 but it never went into production until a few years ago. So while I’m not excusing the construction, the issue with the dormers might not necessarily be reflective of their current design standards – ie had the reengineered the kit or started from scratch today, that legacy issue may not have been present.

@warzan don’t go getting rid of the start you have made on laketown – there are plenty of 3d printed options which could be used and scaled to fit, as well as scratch built piers and jetties etc. Plus the MDF options you mentioned. You can always tie the lines together into a unified looking town in the painting and weathering stage. A town built on stilts is unlikely to look particularly uniform anyhow.

As an aside, can’t recall if this one got any visibility on the KS watch but may be of interest for you from a laketown perspective:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/968660672/fishing-village

A COG Fanzine could be fun. We could also trade tapes of demos and bootlegs of concerts! Bring back the 90s! Oops, wrong forum!

Also did you not already make Lake Town? Or rather did Warren not already get other people to make Lake Town? I remember coffee stirrers, chains and some cool weathering in a Vlog series or something…

I love the idea of getting a traditional newsletter. I’d be happy to chip in a bit extra each month.
Just one thing, though: you HAVE to have something like “Cult Newsletter” on the envelope, just to freak out my postman!

Happy Sunday

@dignity hold your head in shame buddy for forgetting to wish the CoG Community a Happy Sunday. There will be punishment forthcoming, I would suggest Justin is made to rig Gerry’s ships!

@warzan what is snail mail? I am not really sure what this means and with you sometimes having ideas that melt peoples minds I am concerned I would be agreeing to receive a glass pressed snail through the post!

The Point of Points, as ever so much so cover in relation to points, how they should be applied, what method should determine the assigned value, should they be fixed or mutable, lots and lots of angles so I will only pick a few.

If a game has a starter set across a number of factions does it really need points? As the game designer, you could build in a level of balance which while not perfect would keep the margins between the two small enough that points really are not needed. This is on the understanding that what you take from the box is fixed in every aspect and ready to hit the tabletop running.
Expansion of these starter sets would require a level of accountability though and whether it is points, gold coins or another form of currency, the game will likely need a yardstick to be played and for one side not to be easily outplayed.

Re-enactment of setting in history and when I say history I don’t necessarily mean mother Earth but also the histories of the fictional literature that makes up the fluff and background of the games we play really does not need a points value. A detailed account of the forces fielded does help but if those playing the game do so in the spirit of the game points are not needed.

How many points! The guys talked about the potential restrictions the D6 places on the ability of companies to bring about successes and fails in a previous post. With points values, the size of a range and the increments of different minis abilities/capabilities will likely have to be a considering factor when deciding to structure points. GW have put together a quick game and a detailed game method for this which is actually something I quite like as it caters to both the list builders and the gamers.

Most games have a predetermined system for army selection with units having an assigned value but not all. In recent times I can think of a couple that use draft systems. This is to say that those forces can be allied with any party but has obvious or subtle synergies with certain other types that would be beneficial e.g. Super Fantasy Brawl, Mythic Battles Pantheon, I am sure there are more. Whilst this is not going to work for every game it does make for some very nice collectors games as you can conceivably have the option to use all the minis available giving you a valid reason to buy them all…..like you needed one 🙂

All in all a core part of getting a good points system is future-proofing from day one. Often companies are locked in with a system that doesn’t cater for growth over time and therefore you find units of the same points value not being the same in gaming value. Luckily for me, I go with whats pretty and hope not to get too mauled in the process of having an army I like the look of.

@avernos Battle of Hastings you say, stand on a hill and shoot and defend you say. Eye, eye you say. I think with this being two opposing armies it is going to be very interesting to see how you put the rules together. One thing I have always been frustrated by in most of the games we play is the lack of logistics and communication accountability, especially in historic games. Having the omnipotent power to see all on the battlefield and the lightning bolt communication that this brings means you have too much control. I would like to see an orders system something similar to epic 40k where you might end up locked into a mistake and have to change tactics on the fly. After all, horns, drums, flags and runners will only pass on so much information and not always at the right time once lines meet.

Anyway, another good episode and some awesome work from those who won Golden Buttons.

Have a great gaming week everyone.

great show as always

Happy Sunday

Shock horror… @avernos you called them boats 🤣🤣 I didn’t actually twig until you mentioned it obviously not paying too much attention.

I know this may come as a shock to some but I have not actually bought into Black Seas yet …I am waiting after being burnt over Cruel Seas.

Happy sunday CoGs
Warren wants to send love letters to us all?
Hobby regrets…. buying too much aka the pile of shame we all own, not sticking to one army, picking up too many different systems… we could be here a while…

In terms of terrain, GW have moved their rules in AoS and 40k to a point where the terrain itself is almost irrelevant and basically table decoration. As a result I would say terrain sales have fallen, so the need to keep the vast array of kits isn’t worth their investment. Then what you do get for your money, is as you pointed out, a WTF moment. One of my local clubs looked at doing a Necromunda campaign earlier this year and picked up one of the Sector Mechanicus bundles, ~£100 mark, and after builing and painting it, we put it on the table and the reaction from everyone was “Is that it??”, at which point we decided that wasn’t a very cost effective route as it would be around £300 per table.

Points are a good thing as they help to control “that guy” who just wants to turn up and smear his opponent across the table with no regard of their opponent’s enjoyment of the game.
Regarding army builds, I’m going to bring my favourite Horus Heresy in here. HH was built on 5th Ed 40k so it followed the core 1 HQ and 2 troops Force Organisation Chart model. However, it also brings in Rites of War, which allow you to build variety into your army build from that model, with pros and cons for doing so, whilst giving your army a real flavour. For example, Pride of the Legion allows you to take terminators and veteran squads (usually an elite choice) as core troops, downside, you can’t take any allies, you need a minimum of 4 squads and if they all die you opponent gets extra VPs. Angel’s Wrath represents a fast moving force made up of jump infantry, jetbikes and flyers, so you can’t take tanks or fortifications, and your flyers wont be arriving until turn 2 at the earliest. There are also a few thematic force org charts (whch cannot be combined with the RoWs thankfully!) such as the Leviathan FoC which requires 1 HQ, 1 unit of troops and a Lord of War, so you can fight that thematic raid on a titan facility facing off against a titan and some troops protecting the facility.

In terms of simplifying points, Battlefront have done that with TY and FoW in their latest editions. I’m a relative newbie to FoW but I see a lot of the veterans complaining about the new system as it has removed the granularity from the points balance, which I can fully understand – This goes back to Gerrys comments on friday about the limitations of the D6-based system.