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It’s great to see this thread taking root like this. Thanks for all the input and support.
Okay, the question on the table is, how do we interpret China’s involvement in World War II vis-a-vis Japan, and what bearing does this have on when World War II actually starts?
Well, not to get too pedantic here, but if we scroll back to the top of the thread, we’ll see that I carefully wrote around this issue:
… with some commemorative publications and wargames centered on the official opening of the conflict, Germany’s invasion of Poland in 1939.
“Official” obviously being the operative word here.
Yes, I knew this issue lay out there, like a land mine waiting to go off. In some way I may have helped plant the mine as it’s a position I have advocated and defended in the past. Put another way, @shingen has a very valid point.
The Question:
Pick up any history book, open any serious history website, ask most historians, and they’ll all tell you the same thing. World War II begins with Germany’s invasion of Poland in 1939. But is it true?
Not necessarily. That said, this is a point I try not to drive home too hard in the community because believe it or not, it brings up a surprising amount of baggage.
The Case:
Japan invades China in 1937 in a big, big way. This opens up a huge front of the war, with never falls below millions of people engaged and very quickly racks up fatalities in seven digits. It hasn’t ended when 1939 rolls around It hasn’t ended when 1941 rolls around Japan attacks the US, the UK, French colonies, Australia, the Dutch, and a host of other nations that “officially” starts World War II in Asia and the Pacific. There are huge battles, campaigns, counterattacks, atrocities that would make Josef Mengele ashamed, experiments with chemical and biological warfare, you name it.
It’s a war.
But is it part of World War II?
Legally, yes. And I use “legally” on purpose.
World War II doesn’t end with Hitler’s death or the fall of the Third Reich. It ends “officially” on the deck of the battleship USS Missouri, where the government of Japan surrenders to government representatives of all the Allied powers. This instrument of surrender is an international treaty, which by definition is international law. And that law isn’t official until everyone signs it … the Americans, the British, the Australians
- Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz for the United States
- Admiral Sir Bruce Fraser for the United Kingdom
- Lieutenant General Kuzma Derevyanko for the Soviet Union
- General Sir Thomas Blamey for Australia
- Colonel Lawrence Moore Cosgrave for Canada
- Général de Corps d’Armée Philippe Leclerc de Hauteclocque for France
- Lieutenant Admiral C. E. L. Helfrich for the Netherlands
- Air Vice-Marshal Leonard M. Isitt for New Zealand
and yes…
- General Hsu Yung-Chang for China.
China has to sign the document before the war legally ends, which means her participation in the war is legally recognized as an official sovereign combatant. Ergo, her entry into the war has to be taken into account when determining when the war starts.
World War II is not just about Europe. It didn’t start in Europe. It didn’t end in Europe. It wasn’t about Europe. It was about the world, of which Europe has not been the center for some time.
The Complications:
A surprising number of people get agitated when this is brought up. There are a list of reasons for this.
1) People in Britain sometimes find this uncomfortable because it challenges the idea that they were “in the war the whole time,” and refutes the idea that they were ready to fight against right-wing dictatorships from the very outset.
2) British History as an Institution: The eurocentric idea that emphasizes the contributions of the UK, US, Canada, France … in short, the West … at the expense of the Soviet Union or China (who actually suffered well over 90% of the Allied fatalities of World War II no matter how creative you get with the numbers) was largely established i the late 40s and early 50s as the first wave of Second World War history was written. This was almost exclusively done by British academics, with Winston Churchill himself leading the way. It’s not wrong, just incomplete.
3) People in Poland may feel like they’re losing their status as “first to fight.”
4) Europeans in general realize the war wasn’t “just about them.”
5) People in Japan are confronted with a truly horrific chapter in their nation’s history.
6) In addition to the Soviet Union, people in the West must now accept that the “other great ally” also turned out to be a colossal Communist adversary in the Cold War, leading to nihilistic underpinnings of what World War II was even about or if anyone even “won” the war. “The Greatest Generation” defeated right-wing fascism, national socialism, and militarism only to set up left-wing Stalinism, Maoism, and God-knows what else? Was there really anything so “Great” about that?
7) Bringing in China in 1937 begs the question of Manchuria in 1931. I do not propose moving the date back that far. Manchuria was another conflict that doesn not draw an unbroken line of sight with China 1937 … but it complicates the waters nevertheless.
8) Including 1937 as a start date greatly complicates geopolitics in Asia. Remember that the Soviet Union and Japan fought two major conflicts in Mongolia, 1938 and 39. Once we get the Molotov-Ribbontrop Pact of 1939 (making Hitler’s German and Stalin’s Soviet Union “allies”), does this make Japan an enemy of Germany? Does this make Japan an Allied power? Of course not, it just complicates the hell out of the situation. And when looking at history, people tend to like simplicity, what can easily fit on the back of a miniatures box, in a 90 minute action movie, a video game, or a YouTube video.
9) Who really wants to re-write every history book ever written on World War II?
The Conclusion:
Of course, I’m not trying to propose what’s right or wrong here, or tell virtually everyone in the world that they are “wrong.” I’m just making a case and outlining some reasons many people resist it.
The war against Nazi Germany, one of the worst evils ever faced by Humanity, begins here in Poland on September 1, 1939. Even the British wouldn’t declare war on Germany for two more days. And America never declared war on Germany. German declared war on the US after we declared war on Japan. And of course Poland would continue to fight after the fall of their state, with massive armies in exile fighting in both the East and West, to say nothing of the home army and the Resistance.
More on Poland 1939 later, I promise … 😀
