Reply To: Darkest Dungeon: The Board Game – Shipping surcharge

[ced1106Participant 6224xp 0]

> RPG books (technically still games) tend to be risky if they need to write the actual material.

I mean, an overseas factory that has delays is one thing. But isn’t writing (and drawing) all just one person, right? I don’t back RPG’s, comics, and books because of the delay, retail competition (plenty of RPG stuff on DriveThruRPG and Humble Bundle) and creative slacking. If there’s a $1 PDF, like Phil Reed, I’ll pick it up because $1 doesn’t matter to me. If everything’s been written, that’s fine, of course.

> I did back a bicycle related kickstarter

Hope it turned out well. I also don’t back “you only need one of them” KS, especially ones with working parts (eg. appliances, painting accessories). The risk is that the project is delayed and something retail will be available cheaper, sooner, and better. I did back the Cobalt Keep paint handle because paint handles were a thing on Reaper for awhile, and it had a light attachment. Works fine, especially if you like messing around with magnets.

> I’ve not done software kickstarters, because they are too high risk.

Same ditto, although since I don’t play video games, I can get whatever through Humble Bundle or something free or inexpensive on Steam. I do see how some game designers best known IP can no longer work on them because the IP is owned by a company they don’t work for, so donating (and I mean donating) to their next “spiritual successor” is a way to thank them.

I also don’t back boardgame-only KS for the same reason you wouldn’t buy a game without a review (used to be “try before you buy”) — even if everything works perfectly, you may not even like the game! Of course, when I did try Gloomhaven, I bought it, but, thankfully, the creator made retail copies available. Yep, I’ll back the GH miniatures KS. 😛

> Would backers pledge money with real delivery dates 3 years away?

Reaper Miniatures did this, and a handful of idio — er, potential backers — said they might not back because of the date. Sheesh! You’re gonna have edge cases when you have thousands of customers I guess.

> Is it ethical for any community site to publicise KS projects without adding a ‘buyer beware’ notice?

IIRC, Before you pledge, KS has a Terms and Conditions or some sort of warning that rewards are not guaranteed. But, yeah, any non-crowdfunding site should acquaint their audience with what crowdfunding is and isn’t — or they won’t have an audience anymore. (Maybe there’s a “Coolest Cooler” article we could dig up.) Also, all those anti-crowdfunders who say “KS is a pre-order” should be smacked on the side of the head for muddying up crowdfunding vs. retailers who have pre-order protection (ie. refunds until the order is shipped), or at least pay for my shipping for my Lasting Tales miniatures. 😛

> And knowing the real delivery date is 3 years away, should the company not have factored in cost inflation over the development period?

They should, but you can’t count on them. I mean, you’ve heard of non-crowdfunding projects, such as government projects, or real estate projects, that go into cost overruns. And stuff like CoVid is entirely unpredictable. So, at best, you try to only back projects by companies that know how to manage projects (eg. CMON, SJG, Reaper), including having sources of outside funds in case of cost overruns. (Typically, this means having an evergreen retail product, which then asks the question why they’re using KS, right?) Or, of course, only back projects with minimal manufacturing, such as .stl’s and PDFs. (But then see my comment on RPG’s! 😛

> I understand what your saying, but I can’t help seeing it as a slap in the face of the folks who tied up their money for two years or more, (with risk), to read about other folks who risked NO money yet got the product at a convention before the backers received their pledge returns.

That’s a definite risk of KS, as well as for the creator. Three years to gain a customer, three minutes to lose one. Unfortunately, plenty of companies that will go bankrupt, financially or morally (is Palladium still around?) will choose this route. I do think that in today’s environment, it’s more important then ever to look for a creator who has a lot at stake and has a high amount of integrity before backing. (Not a big fan of CMON, despite my saying they’re more likely to fulfill a project.) In hindsight at least, you can find examples of creators whose business abilities and attitude towards backers would lead to a failed project (eg. Palladium, Myth, Alex Lim).