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Beyond the Monolith? Confusion!?!

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This topic contains 50 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  onlyonepinman 1 week ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 51 total)
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  • #1473324

    bubbles15
    Participant
    903xp

    Limberger, you’ve rather missed my point and proved it so obviously I’ve not been clear. There’s no need for the sarcasm.

    I ‘m not getting at the amount he’s trying to raise. What bothers me is the choice of medium. Kickstarter allows (and until it’s proven in court otherwise) in this instance, to load all the risk on the customer (us).

    In a traditional business, as you say you need capital to simply exist and that comes from clients. My own company has much the same cost. It ensures we have to produce a good product, to a timetable to get paid. If we don’t, we lose customers and go out of business.

    Perhaps I am a grumpy old fart but I like the laws surrounding the sale of goods act. I like the banking code that stops me running off with investors money that they trust me with. I like knowing that when we open our doors and a chap comes in today to ask for the building diagrams that he will get it to a legally recognised and binding contract – and then, on delivery of product we get paid. Not before.

     

    #1473508

    limburger
    Participant
    10604xp

    @bubbles15 I see Kickstarter as yet another tool a business can use to acquire funding.

    It’s our job as consumers to only donate if we feel confident that we are getting our return of investment.

    The sneaky aspect is that the physical rewards make it look like we are paying for a product when we are only paying for the product to be made. You’re not guaranteed to get a (physical) reward just like investors are not guarnteed to get profit if the company fails to make money.

    I know it’s beating a dead horse, but I think you should only ‘invest’ into crowdfunding projects if you’ve got money to burn.
    There is no amount of disclaimers that can stop people from using it like a webshop.
    That disclaimer is there every single time … and it has yet to stop me from committing.
    It’s the legal equivalent to the stupid “are you sure” dialogs in an OS and it is equally useless.

    There are plenty of reasons for projects to fail to deliver due to plain stupidity, getting overwhelmed by the response or bad luck. All of them depend on the creators being honest in their updates … and without direct access to the creators’ daily activities it is next to impossible to judge whether that was malicious or not.
    At best it would add a ton of paperwork to the small teams that barely have time to do the minimal updates as is. And in my experience it’s been the small teams that are already overburdened by the constant requests for updates by their backers. Not everyone can afford to do this.

    IMHO any additional legal requirement would ensure only big companies like GW could run crowdfunding projects.
    Exactly the kind of company that don’t need crowdfunding as they likely have access to capital through traditional means.

    Scammers are going to scam … as proven by the various projects reviewed by Thunderf00t on his youtube channel.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/Thunderf00t

    And to be honest … this is the kind of research anyone backing crowdfunding projects could do themselves.
    Do we really need laws for that ? And how would that work in a global environment ?

    Current consumer protection laws are highly localized … and we can’t even get the governments across the world to agree to the same standards. I doubt crowdfunding laws would be any different. So we’d run into situations where half the backers could get a refund because they happened to live in a country that has such laws.

    Given how many problems international shipping already creates for teams not familliar with the needs I doubt it would solve anything.

    Do you really need a bankers law act to stop you from running away with the money from investors ?
    If so … you might want to check your moral compass.
    It is nice that such laws exist when the proverbial excrement hits the spinning blade.
    However all we are likely to get is the satisfaction the scumbag got to spend time in jail.

    #1473950

    bubbles15
    Participant
    903xp

    Yes, you’re entirely right. Especially with regard to it only benefitting big companies.

    You’re right on the geographical laws as well, yet maybe if that were more enforced by Kickstarter themselves, perhaps backing err, Backer investments with some sort of insurance paid by the funder?

    I certainly wouldn’t – yet when someone gives you a six figure sum it’s good for them to know and makes the transaction safer, for both sides.

    The ‘Are you sure’ made me chortle as I’ve seen so many people say yes reflexively then wonder where their work’s gone.

    However, I’m going off topic.

    #1474535

    ced1106
    Participant
    2397xp

    Monkeysloth on Dakka has been paying close attention to Monolith:

    So there’s a planed update the middle of the week on what the new KSer will look like at a basic level (probably Wednesday) and set expectations. Also sounds like the new one could launch in 4-8 weeks (though no date like that has been given).

    Matt has already said it’s going to be all new, nothing from the first KSer, so that everyone playing conan can get “onto the same level” for scenario writers. Also sounds like they want to make it available post KSer so people that buy the retail version in the future will have a way to go forward.

    There is, however, the possibility of all the tiles and hero sheets being reprinted from the first KSer in a bundle so people can get all the game play stuff.

    As for old minis/expansions Matt and Chaz have said that it’s not realistic at the current popularity of the game. If this KSer goes well and justifies more Conan then anything is possible but it might end up being resculpts for various reasons they haven’t really stated. Though it does appear they don’t have the rights to some of the artists boxes anymore so those sound like they’ll never come back. I’m also wondering if they may not have some of the molds anymore as I would assume they have to pay to store those and after 5 years of not doing a reprint maybe some of them were recycled.

    Nothing so far has been mentioned on the extra Kings Pledges they were going to sell in the previous KSer. So that may, or may not, be in the update they’re talking about.

    https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/782171.page#10691144

    #1474719

    onlyonepinman
    Participant
    11002xp

    It’s positive that they are rethinking it but I still fail to see how this new proposal breathes any life into anyone’s existing miniatures.  That is not to say I am not interested, I certainly am. But if they want to allow everyone to get up to the same level, they need to set a baseline requirement (for example you need the original ame or you need a King Pledge) and build on the assumption that everyone then has that.  They also need to provide a way for everyone who doesn’t already have those miniatures to get them, whether they offer the full game/King Pledge or just the miniatures.  Additionally they needto sell any new stat cards and tokens associated with the original content as a separate item and then they need to sell the new stuff separately.

    That’s kind of the only way I can see it working, or rather it’s the only way I can see it meeting its original intention

    #1474769

    limburger
    Participant
    10604xp

    @bubbles15 the geographic limits are sometimes enforced by the creators of projects themselves.
    It definitely pays to check if a project has an ‘EU friendly’ sticker (or something similar)
    As such the tools are there … it’s also up to us as backers to use them and/or do basic research.
    The problem for creators is that they need to walk a thin line between promoting their project and treating it as a webshop.
    I suspect it’s why kickstarter projects need to use 3rd party services like backerkit for anything that requires backers to pick&choose their ‘rewards’.

    //—

    If they’re relaunching *that* quickly (a few weeks isn’t much) then I do wonder why they only delayed their kickstarter by one week when the comments during the preview pretty much matched those seen when it was live.

    Anything other than comments about that could be fixed by a simple rewrite of the campaign text ought to be seen as a reason to re-think the launch IMHO.

    #1475041

    onlyonepinman
    Participant
    11002xp

    There has been an update from Monolith

     

    Hello Again,

    Behind the scenes, the Monolith Team is working together to prepare a second offer for our faithful Sword Brothers and Sisters. The failed launch of Beyond the Monolith served as a wakeup call, and spelled a significant loss for us, but we are NOT ready to give up. We’re mobilizing as we speak, preparing to deliver a final push to get Conan back on the Road of Kings so he may again take the throne of Aquilonia and rule for years to come!

    So what are we proposing? Next month, we will launch a campaign that offers a bigger, better redux version of the Legacy pledge featured in our last campaign. It will include:

    -Some brand new miniatures you haven’t seen yet.

    -A new double-sided game board (Yes, you will have the Temple, but we want to save the ships for something more fitting down the road).

    -A sizeable tome that incorporates brand new scenarios for Conan Adventure Mode AND the rules and scenarios/campaign for the solo/co-op mode.

    -All of the new sculpts we unveiled during the Beyond the Monolith KS (in greater numbers than were featured in the Legacy Box) and no previously released miniatures.

    In short, it will be an even-greater version of what we originally proposed, and all of it will be brand new material. You’ll only require any existing copy of Conan (and those will be available during the KS for those who need them).

    We know this plan does not offer everyone everything they want, but we have to be careful and measured. That means, unfortunately, at this time we can’t launch any complex offers for older material. That does not mean we won’t be able to do it. In fact, we have a good idea of how to do it, and soon, but it has to be after this next Kickstarter. During this upcoming campaign we will offer what remaining stock we have (including King Pledges, Core boxes and others), and hopefully, soon after we’ll launch a second campaign to allow everyone a chance to get what they missed.

    Thank you so much to everyone who has supported us along the way. This, as Fred already mentioned, will be a true Kickstarter. Next month, fate will look upon us, and we need your help to raise the banners and voice your support. We need you. Help us place the Crown of Iron back upon the troubled brow of King Conan.

    Will you answer the call?

    -Matt John

    PS: as Fred already mentioned, we are focusing on the delivery of Batman GCC Season 2. Our commitments to our previous backers must be our top priority. Those pledges will reach their shipping hubs next month and fulfillment of that project will begin. Batman GCC Season 2 is safe and will be on the way soon.

     

    I have asked whether they will be shelving Beyond the Monolith and their answer was its being put on hold for now but they intend to bring it to the tabletop in the future.  The relaunch will be for only a sort of “Legacy Plus” pledge.

    #1477395

    bubbles15
    Participant
    903xp

    I don’t mind the concept but from this I was rather hoping to get the Mythic Battles Pantheon boxes I missed the first time around and Conan. Maybe boxing up with all the cards and rules is too expensive?

    #1477603

    onlyonepinman
    Participant
    11002xp

    @bubbles15 I don’t think they were ever going to offer a full range of MB:P stock in this kickstarter. However, should the company survive, I would expect at least some MB:P stock to become available when they launch Mythic Battles:Ragnarok.  I genuinely do hope that this doesn’t kill the company – I love Conan and I also love Mythic Battles and the potential for a Norse themed version of the game does appeal.

    #1477668

    horus500
    Participant
    3325xp

    I would have loved to have seen a holistic approach taken to Conan. Link it to the Conan RPG. Create or link it to any one of the many warband combat rules. Add Cavalry and monsters (remember the excitement when the failed KS Conan Monsters showed off the mammoth?). Give us a Mythic Pantheon crossover by giving us Crom, Mitra, Set, etc.

    All Conan fans know that Conan regularly leads warbands, armies, fights monsters, demi-gods and witnesses the gods interacting with his world. All of that is missing

    #1478796

    onlyonepinman
    Participant
    11002xp

    @horus500 I have the cross over book for the RPG and honestly I think it’s a little pointless. The content is good but it’s a book of two halves, half for each game and although the two can be linked together if I am honest I don’t want to play half a campaign using one set of rules only to then swap to the other set of rules afterwards.  That it contains games and scenarios for two games I have so in that respect its good. But I am happy to keep the two separate.

    I genuinely like the idea of the Beyond the Monolith concept and would definitely back if it didn’t mean buying all my Conan stuff again.  I also absolutely love the adventure game and if they just kickstart some new models and scenarios I will definitely back that too.

    #1480334

    ced1106
    Participant
    2397xp

    > I don’t mind the concept but from this I was rather hoping to get the Mythic Battles Pantheon boxes I missed the first time around and Conan. Maybe boxing up with all the cards and rules is too expensive?

    Apparently so. And with the epidemic in China, I’m sorta glad that the KS campaign was cancelled, though wish the best for the families affected by this tragedy.

    #1486199

    pafetikbazerka
    Participant
    3137xp

    Maybe more rumour, but fits the info up to now. Will see what happens on the 17th.

    https://the-overlord.net/index.php?/topic/776-conan-the-conqueror-the-mega-expansion-feb-17th-kickstarter/&ct=1581678233

     

    #1486603

    onlyonepinman
    Participant
    11002xp

    It’s not rumour, they posted a draft version of their kickstarter page yesterday.  They have shelved Beyond the Monolith for now and are just releasing new content for the original game, including a set of  solo/co-op mode rules. As part of the kickstarter the original game will be available, including King Pledge and Stretch Goals.

    There appears to be 4 pledges

    The Conqueror – the new expansion plus Tome of Skelos

    The Hyborean Conqueror – base game plus Conqueror expansion plus Tome of Skelos

    The Barbarian Conqueror – base game plus 2015 stretch goals plus Conqueror expansion plus Tome of Skelos

    The King Conqueror – King Pledge plus 2015 stretch goals plus Conqueror expansion plus Tome of Skelos

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/806316071/1144014322?ref=eh8nvf&token=56805fe8

    #1486626

    kantor72
    Participant
    3193xp

    Looks good to me.£120 ( give or take a few quid ) for the Conqueror Pledge,Pirate Expansion and i’m taking the top end shipping for granted to the UK.If i’m reading it correctly,adding the SG’s that are unlocked will be down to the individual backer in the PM.

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