Button Counters

[panzerkaput 33943xp 4]

Can any one answer me this question about Historical players.

Why is it you have a core of pedants, button counters, who poo poo what people do and suggest as it is “Not Historical” accurate, etc, but never actually post any helpful or useful articles, links themselves or painted figures or armies?

Has anyone else found or encountered this?

[torros 23816xp 3]

Those sorts of people have always been about in wargaming whether historical of fantasy or scifi

[wurzzelParticipant 2734xp 5]

Like @torros says they’ve always been around, some people are just a******s who feel the need to lord it over the “plebs” when in reality just like the vast majority of this hobby they’re grown men playing with toy soldiers

[denzien 27807xp 4]

With my Napoleonic project I have so many French units I have painted the pom poms on the shakos different colours so a player can tell what unit is with what battalion. I’m not going to repaint all my Zulu war redcoats facing colours for a specific battle either. They can all be 24th of foot

[warzanKeymaster 31125xp 4]

I genuinely thought from the title this thread was going to be about using buttons as counters on the tabletop lol 🙂

And I was thinking Aww that’s a sweet idea! lol

[berenzedParticipant 32xp 2]

Yep – it seems they either don’t like sharing advice after putting something “OUT THERE” or just like stirring “****”.

[dugthefug1644 30188xp 5]

I don’t think there is a majority of historical gamers that button count, but historical gamers chose not to play Kings of War or 40k because they wanted something set in reality and the past. I have seen far more ugly criticism from 40k players moaning about kitbashes etc not being wysiwyg enough and being very ugly in their comments and harsh of attitude.

There is undeniably a vocal minority that do hold other players to a higher standard than is reasonable. They give the rest of the historical game players a bad name and sadly this puts new players off the genre.

Everyone has their own threshold for immersion breaking factors on their gaming table. When it’s a case of facing someone in a gaming club with criticism of your work we can just choose not to play that individual again. It becomes a lot more awkward when the minutiae picking unconstructive criticism comes online. We either ignore the feedback, check if you actually want to change anything to improve historical accuracy, or if you’re feeling energetic you could have a comments box war and tackle their pedantic feedback head on.

Andy Zeck, not a button counter in my opinion, helped me with feedback, but I was asking for critical feedback.

Excellent! Like the 5o’clock shadow ??

All leathers were black in the 95th tho, rifle sling etc.

One of the main recruiting arguments..no pipe claying required in the Rifles ?

This was helpful, gave me a fun and historical reason for correcting my paint job and I appreciated the input. I looked up what “pipe claying” was and won’t be making that mistake again.

Sadly not everyone has the class and charm that he had. (RIP Andy.)

[piersParticipant 25489xp 7]

The semi-mythical historical stereotype (that is just as prevalent in 40k and Fantasy) is always a good trope to tar historical gamers with.

In my few years historical gaming I have met few that anal, but they are about. They are few and far between really, though I suspect they are easier to find online… they tend to not be good socially in person.

Most historical gamers, the huge majority, are helpful, polite and enthusiastic.

What you have to take into account is that for many historical gamers, the key part of it IS the history. Being historically inaccurate kinda is the diametric opposite to their hobby.

Being passionate about history is often as much of a hobby, if not more, than the gaming itself.

My bookcases are testimount to my love of WW2 military history, and why I am analysing retentive when it comes to WW2 miniatures.

I won’t put historically inaccurate stuff.on my table if playing a historical wargame… whats the point? Luckily my gaming group has the same foibles and historical research is a boon, not a chore to us.

Those type of historical gamers are the ones who will be able to tell you what colour piping they used in the War of Jenkins Ear and how many rivets are on a 38t.

I pursue my hobby in my way… rivet counting and all. I dont expect or care how others do it. Paint pink panzers for all I care if it makes YOU happy thats a good thing. What makes me happy is trying to reflect my love of history and admiration for the fighting men of previous centuries by trying to reflect the look of these men as accurately as possible. Think of it as a means to pay a little respect back to those who did it for real. Especially with WW2, I’ve met so many veterans, I feel I owe it to them to present history is as factual way as possible… but still with a view to gaming it.

You will always find vocal minorities who like to pursue a perceived superiority over others in all hobbies. But I dont think there are that many.

Wargaming is a personal hobby and I think best pursued in that manner. I won’t tell someone they painted their tank the wrong colour… but I also wouldn’t put that tank on my table.

 

 

[wurzzelParticipant 2734xp 2]

@dugthefug1644 I think you have hit the nail on the head. The distancing and semi anonymity you get from being online emboldens people, this is one of the reason’s I rarely post any pictures of my stuff online, thinking long and hard as to whether I want to read someone’s opinion on my work. Social media also allows the militant minority to seem more vocal, as those who aren’t are more likely to just hit the like button and scroll on

[khusrauParticipant 1169xp 2]

At the end of the day, some people are just d*cks.

My (entirely unqualified) observation would be that there seem to be a lot of OCD/Aspergers, ‘on the spectrum’ in any obsessional, detail focused hobby, and they perhaps don’t know how to be helpful, or need to parade their knowledge to puff up their egos.

To be fair though, if you are going to do ‘historical’ minis, then there’s a lot of info out there, and if you paint your Napoleonic Old Guard in red coats, then people are going to point it out.

Me, I’m somewhere in between, so yes, it would be nice to have all the correct regiments for battle ‘x’ with all the correct facings etc, but I am not going to get bent out of shape about the facing colours or regimental flags. My panzergrenadiers will get about in 251 halftracks, but I am not putting divisional insignia on the vehicles, as they are going to get used by Volksgrenadiers, Heer units and Luftwaffe field divisions as well.

And having said all that, my Early Imperial Romans include figures from the Metal Magic Asterix range, and will be painted in the accurate colours as depicted by those great historical authorities, Goscinny and Uderzo.

[limburger 21710xp 2]

I’d argue that the people who offer that useless comment have soo little power and control in real life that they feel the need to show of their e-penis any time they can.
And because they don’t want you to threaten their little bit of power they’re not going to be in a sharing mood.

These types exist in every hobby. I’ve seen it in videogame forums where these types will post “git gud” in response to questions about how to deal with a specific enemy in a game. They don’t add value to the community they’re part of.

Argueing with those types doesn’t help, because they’re unlikely to have any actual knowledge of the subject at hand. At best they know you’re having ‘wrong fun’ and are a threat to their insecurity.

Can I say that there is very little of this in the OTT community ?
There usually is at least one community member who does provide useful info in any given thread.

And regardless of the stupidity of the initial question someone is always willing to help.

[dugthefug1644 30188xp 2]

I would say that beyond button counting there is also an ugly intolerance towards over-asked questions and rule book questions on some Facebook pages.

Some people offer an opinion on a rule’s meaning and some rule lawyer slams them down. Where someone voices a “spirit of the rule” approach and gets smashed with an FaQ and rudely corrected. Some have the fun rebuttal to someone not understanding a rule of… “it’s very clear!”. Surely this is subjective?

Or the other ugly comment often seen on basic rules or list building questions is “buy a rulebook!” These pages are often the first place a new player comes into contact with one of our favourite games or the hobby in general. We could do without this type of comment or a territorial defensive posturing when dealing with people less well informed on pieces of history or the ins and outs of our favourite games.

We could do with more policing on basic tolerance rather than overzealous admins ripping down banter, jokes and anything fractionally off topic.

[torros 23816xp 2]

I genuinely thought from the title this thread was going to be about using buttons as counters on the tabletop lol

@warzan Just wait until yo see my billion suns fleet

[rovensParticipant 467xp 0]

Are they really that prevalent? Or is this just another stereotype?

I’m in plenty of Facebook groups for historical games, whenever I see someone suggest something is inaccurate they provide helpful information.

[torros 23816xp 1]

You used to get a lot of these types of people hanging around the demo tables at shows

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