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This topic contains 30 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  limburger 11 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 31 total)
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  • #1609634

    sundancer
    36268xp
    Cult of Games Member

    In order to get the forums a bit more humming again and give @warzan something to read I hereby create the CRTST. Please add your topic suggestions for the Cult Radio here. If possible add sources, links, quotes and descriptions – basically everything that would be hand to have to read up to before discussing a topic.

    *** DO NOT DISCUSS THE SUGGESTIONS HERE ***

    If you want an immediate discussion on any topic please create a new thread and link that here in a reply. This way this thread stays readable and the forum gets yet more life.

    #1609635

    sundancer
    36268xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Suggestion:

    Written words and how to read them wrong. Discussing things in purely written form with (potential) stranger on the internet always bares the risk of someone reading it with the wrong pronunciation/voice. (Example: a friendly meant “you twat” can be seen as very rude and insulting). So how do we tackle this problem?

    #1609686

    horus500
    10492xp
    Cult of Games Member

    How long does it take –  I’ve seen a lot of new hobbists (and more experienced ones for that matter) walk into a store with grand ideas about a new army because they have just watched Duncan Rhodes pump out a finished miniature in a 10 minute video. We know that 95% of them will never finish their project because after 24-48 hours on continous slog all they have is miniatures that are half assembled and their hands are either evisorated by scaple cuts or their fingers are stuck together. Whats a more realisitic breakdown of the hobby?

    Planning a Project – Before you start a project what do you do? Do you write an army list? Play a few games with stand-ins? Join a Slow Grow league? Buy the coolest looking stuff? Buy 2nd hand stuff off Ebay? I personally start with the terrain. Once I have a themed board that’s finished it encourages me to make sure I paint the entire army.

    Bang for Buck – How you can make clever purchases that will allow players to spend less, get more and even more importantly, get greater use out of their miniatures. Reminding players that GW is not the only manufacturer with quality miniatures. For example, buying a Lannister army for A Song of Ice and Fire, using it as Cities of Sigmar in AoS and as Kingdoms of Men in KoW, or a Great kingdoms Army in Saga Age of Magic (for example) especially if you add in a few Bones monsters. And we both know there are plenty of other examples. Miniature Board games like Zombicide, Blood Rage or Rising Sun can give you a starter army in a box, and you get a playable board game.
    Hording – when is too much stuff too much and what do you do with it. How do you store large collections well and when do you get rid of stuff you no longer use anymore. Are you reeally going to get around to that army you bought 10 years ago? Still got minis in blisters from the 1990’s? Is it time to do something with them? What is the best way to part with the unused collection?

    Introducing a new game to friends – If your friends have always played 40K and you want to play something other than 40K, how do you get them to make the transition? Do you buy a starter set with 2 factions and brow beat one of them into playing it, get one of them to go halves with the starter set? Try another gaming group? Learn to play a game that can be played solo? Etc
    History vs Wishstory – whenever when you redo historical battles you start with representations of the exact forces in the exact starting positions or change the composition of the forces and the starting positions is to much of a change. What is the point of re-fighting a historical battle if you can only ever get the same result? If you redo a historic battle that relied on something unexpected like the encirclement at Cannae or the Prussians showing up at Waterloo, is it possible to truely replay those battles?

    Keeping a campaign going – My friends and I have been playing wargames together for the last 35 years. In that time we have started over 25 campaigns  and completed 6 , all of which have become legendary for us.  What we learned is that some rules and ideas are better than others.  What ideas make great campaign and how do you keep players interested?

    Why don’t we already have the perfect wargame? People have been writing wargaming rules for millenia. There are plenty of genres and mechanics. Why hasn’t someone taken all the best bits and made the ultimate wargame yet?

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  horus500.
    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  horus500.
    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  horus500.
    #1609713

    horus500
    10492xp
    Cult of Games Member

    How important is scenery? Scenery sets the mood of the table, it begins to paint a picture in the story your army is telling. Or is it? Is scenery just obstacles you use for cover? Is it some cumbersome object you have to manouver your miniatures around or balance precariously on? Would a card saying “forrest” be better than a bunch of plastic trees? Should the trees be removable? If I can move troops into a house, should it have an interior as detailed as the exterior?

    How deep do you dive into your favourite settings?  Some people just play a game, others live it. Years ago I played Warhammer, I read novels set in the Warhammer world, played computer games set there, I roleplayed in the setting and dreamt of a Warhammer TV Serioes or movie. Does everyone deep dive? Is it needed? Does it help or does it distract you from being a better player by burdening you with stuff like ‘themes’.

    What aspect of the hobby is best? Collecting, planning, building, painting playing, winning, talking about the hobby, displaying your models, socialising? If you could only do 1 aspect of the hobby, what would it be? What’s the best part of the hobby and why?

    How can you get a start in the gaming industry? I’d love it if Warren could get James M Hewitt and the guys from Wayland to discuss how they got into the industry and how they’d suggest others seek out a career in gaming.

    #1609714

    sundancer
    36268xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Holy smokes @horus500 … how long did you sit on those ideas? I’m guessing @warzan is now working out a table on how to do what when XD Roll for initiative. Nice work mate.

    #1609736

    timchubb
    Keymaster
    3156xp

    Heh as is always the way I work out how to express the point I try to make after the fact.

    I’m not in favour of heavy moderation and keep it nice policing of threads, but there have been times when its been needed, and its been quite shocking when it has happened as its so against the grain of how the community here usually works.

    A better way of expressing what I meant is to think of forums like a garden, they need cultivation. Sure you can set out borders and lawns and leave it at that, after a while it becomes a bit over grown and ill defined. You can leave it like that and it keeps on growing but the structure is lost, and certain plants take over areas, as its so overgrown you cant easily enter, and don’t know where to start. However with a bit of pruning, reseeding and clearance you create space and light and things grow again, now you can either leave it to own devices and have to prune it all over again in a few years or you maintain it.

    Im a huge fan of the forums here, id sworn off any form of community interaction online after having run some forums in the past and generally spent to much time online, there is a massive chunk of my life which is only online and after 17 years of usenet and then forums i was done with them and way tooo invested where it caused for lack of a better term burnout, so i went cold turkey for a few years, but it was the community here which dragged me back into interacting online. That said the net has changed a lot in the last 10 or even 5 years.

    Forum usage is declining across the board for many reasons, partially its a problem with delayed gratification, compared to the more “social” platforms for discussions its asynchronous, the threaded discussion paradigm doesn’t flow as well on mobile devices which have become the default method of browsing these days just look at the decline in laptop sales (desktops are basically games machines outside of the IT/Work world), compared to channel and group messaging. One other big change is communities have shifted from being based around sites, and instead have been aggregated by Facebook into groups, and for a lot of people the internet is Google, Facebook and YouTube, so actually getting them out of those silos and here is a challenge, why post here when you can cross post to several groups at once there.

    For us internet crusties (if you dont remember the joys of modem screech or AT codes to get the bloody thing to take advantage of your UART enabled serial port, your not a crustie ;)) the record and collectiveness of forum posts is a feature, for digital natives they tend to operate in a more individual manner, its that which defines their content creation and interaction is based around reciprocal following, broadcast your opinion and get responses, and the discussion format of forums is an anachronism, and not how they generally want to express them selves or communicate online (its hard to make likes/popularity meaningful in a forum, which seems to be the overriding obsession these days). Forums prompt dialog, where as social prompts responses.

    Where am I going with this waffle?

    Simple I think to make forums effective they have to adapt to the evolution of browsing habits, while they can be viewed as an archive, that’s a reference and past tense view in my opinion (they can be both, but it more like flicking through a guestbook at a hotel or b+b seeing comments of those who were there before you, than historical archive). To make them live, we need things to trigger engagement, so i would propose some events, much like the blood thirster painting competition i ran, or the terrain challenges. Rather than make it complicated with prizes and things like that we can dish out awards and drive it by community led voting. Wouldn’t even have to organise anything more than a theme, i.e. word of the month, do something that fits the word e.g. “horror”, could encompass painting and conversion, terrain builds [graveyards, crypts, gallows, dioramas], battle reports of a survival horror game, fluff etc.

    Something else i would like to see and wouldn’t be to hard to implement would be auto signatures as well, where it would pull in your projects and link back to them at the footer of your posts, make it dynamic so it always pulls in your latest 3 updates, and drives the community to your projects and hopefully increases engagement too…

    throwback content, lets dig some of the gems out of the archives, this goes with @horus500 suggestion of how to get into the industry, its been covered there is a series in the archives of sitdowns with the designers and industry luminaries, but there are loads of things which would be great to dredge up and remind us who have forgotten and present to those who have never seen

    Community games design and rules, used to be quite popular forum and topic not so much now, with forged in avalon could be a good starter framework or seed idea to grow from

    Wider hobby, have a place or feature on non table top, trains, scale models, rc, gundam, comics, re-enactment things which feed into the hobby but are distinct

    I dunno no solutions, just some ideas…

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  timchubb.
    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  timchubb. Reason: Cant spell for siht ;)
    #1609740

    sundancer
    36268xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Huzzah, I’m a crustie… Telnet… wow… haven’t used that on a regular basis for long now.

    I like the idea of “making the forum attractive with things only a forum can do”. WAYPN is all fine and good but it is an ongoing monstrosity.

    Topic Suggestion for the Show: Brainstorming ideas on what are the strong point of a forum besides archival and searchability

    #1609752

    timchubb
    Keymaster
    3156xp

    @sundancer unfortunately several bits of kit in my racks still only telnet and cant handle ssh, i mean why would i want a secure protocol on my PDU….

    Id say with the forums is maybe think of them a bit like a village hall for events like a jumble sale loads of different stalls one common theme, that gives people a reason to interact, educate people on tagging, then you can have many threads all under one umbrella across all the forums, but does require a bit of curation if not moderation…

    And here is a topic to shoot myself in the foot with:
    Does the performance of the site lead to a lack of engagement, as there is a massive difference in speed and loading time between being signed in and signed out, its something i have no good solutions to, but i dont like the fact that the performance punishes members and benefits visitors, is speed important or does the content make the wait worthwhile? Do we need more personalisation and keep it slow, or less and make it fast?

    Would syndicating blogs and posts and presenting them hear like a news aggregator help with the cool but lost bookmark blog problem, or would it just be more homepage churn and lost in the noise

    #1609753

    sundancer
    36268xp
    Cult of Games Member

    First and foremost it needs to be stable and reachable. I’ve got no problem with waiting a second but when long written post/project entries simply vanish into thin air… maybe (if possible) implement a limit on picture size (in regards of MB) and how many pictures are uploaded at once to make the project system more liked? Or paint the server red? 😉

    #1609763

    blinky465
    16491xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I love the projects system. But it does feel a bit “clunky” if you’re writing a long post (I tend to hit the “ten items limit” quite quickly – and through trial and error discovered that a post with more than ten items would be prone to “disappearing” without saving anything back to the server).

    I don’t know how the website is constructed but it feels like the entire project/blog entry is being posted in one hit – a bit of ajax which auto-posts media content while you’re writing a post, or uploads each section individually (maybe even after you’ve clicked the “create a new text box” button) instead of the entire post being (HTTP)POSTed in one go would probably reduce the number of “lost post” failures?

    How many entries are created per day/week in the WAYPN thread? Would it be feasible to “curate” them periodically? Have someone apply tags to entries, to make them more easily searchable? (hey, in doing so, you might accidentally create some “here what our community members have been doing this week” type content to include in a newsletter).

    When I ran the BuildBrighton project system (many years ago) we had something similar (what are you making now) and created a slightly more structured interface for people to link their own personal project blogs. It basically asked “which section(s) apply?” (an early version of tagging) and “what kind of response would you like to this?” – users could ask for feedback/praise, help/advice, discussion points, criticism. It meant that people just learning wouldn’t get swamped with posts like “why haven’t you used a switch mode regulator, your linear reg is less efficient” and left them feeling like they’d never get anywhere! They could post stuff just to show off and say “look at this cool thing I made” and acknowledge that it’s not the most amazing thing anyway, but here’s what I’ve been doing this week.

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  blinky465.
    #1609765

    blinky465
    16491xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Getting back on topic – I love the idea of a monthly competition that’s not a competition (yes, one of those lame “there are no losers” sports days where anyone has the chance of winning a balloon).

    Something for the community to strive towards, and something that doesn’t become “elitist” (like many of the Patreon competitions have become, with professional-level painters hoovering up all the first prize 3d printers).

    Something like “this month, the challenge is a diorama with at least three character miniatures” or “paint your favourite D&D monster”. Post your “before” picture in the opening week, WIP during the next few weeks, final entry before the end of the month. Then maybe even have differing juding criteria (either community driven, or a panel or overall judge) so it’s not always the same few people who get the accolades (most interesting use of everyday litter, most appealing colour scheme, most improvement over three months etc.)

    Prizes or not, contests (anything with a deadline to meet specific criteria) can be a great way to break through the “hobby funk” many of us have been afflicted by over the last year or so!

     

    #1609766

    blinky465
    16491xp
    Cult of Games Member

    For the radio discussion, I’m particularly interested in the direction of “cottage industries” (here in the UK we’re yet to discover if Brexit will lead to a golden age of cottage industries, or kill them stone dead). Many tabletop suppliers are (or started out as) one- and two-man operations (usually run out of a garden shed). Kickstarter has encouraged many of us to “aim high” to create retail-ready products – fancy packaging, campaign-based games with add-ons for replayability etc. But running a Kickstarter is also a massive amount of work in it’s own right – and for a small outfit, would those efforts be better spent elsewhere?

    Has the “cult of new” killed off the opportunity for a small-scale, organically-grown fanbase for new games? Do you have to have a production company, marketing department and international distributor now, to be successful in tabletop gaming, or is there still room for the husband-and-wife team to make a living by monetising a hobby?

     

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  blinky465.
    #1609790

    timchubb
    Keymaster
    3156xp

    Discussion point: wargames without a random element are strategy games, could they ever be a wargame without the chaos of war (aka dice), or would having a some sort of random seed to initialise a diceless game achive the chaos of war, i.e. roll a scatter dice to determine wind direction (archers range and accuracy would be halved shooting into the wind) and play diceless with the effect lasting the rest of game

    #1609822

    horus500
    10492xp
    Cult of Games Member

    @timchubb 100% on wargames without luck = strategy games. To your initial point, this morning I got up spent maybe 2 minutes looking at discord and then 15 minutes reading forums, yours and @blinky465 foremost amoungst them. Byw Blinky I love that garden industry topic idea. Maybe they could link it to ‘Indy of the week’? And the community focused project of before and after “paint 3 characters” is a great idea.

    Don’t understand the tech stuff, but my frustration with the projects system is that I struggle to find my own pages sometimes and that occassionally I upload something only for the upload to fail. Then I’ll read someones post saying it’s been happening all day.

     

    #1609865

    timchubb
    Keymaster
    3156xp

    Sorry @sundancer but im replying to this one 😛

    @horus500 i wish i didnt understand the tech stuff sometimes 😉

    Going to see what i can do with regards to improving projects image uploading reliability.

    There actually is a listing of your projects in your profile page, its not very well signposted so understandable that its easily missed, but https://www.beastsofwar.com/members/horus500/projects/ but thats an easy way to find your projects, rather than in the churn of the listings…

    Will see about adding a link to that page to the account menu in the top right of the page header.

    That or maybe i should be very meta and do a project system hints and tips project

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