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Dungeons & Dragons — Has Gerry been wrong all this time ??

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  sundancer 2 months, 1 week ago.

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    I have come to believe over the years everything Gerry has said is correct and Warren makes up a lot of based on what he saw on TV. The problems really started when the history channel started showing all those aliens and crystal skull shows.  But enough of that last week I saw this picture an early version of Dungeons & Dragons. Even before the famous red box.

    You can image my shock at the title.

    Dungeons & Dragons

    Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil and Miniature Figures

    Yes that is correct it seems Arneson-Gygax back ground in wargaming lead them to coming up with D&D not only that but it was designed to use Miniatures.

    I had to confirm the source, double check the history … but is seems all these years Gerry telling us it is incorrect to use miniatures in D&D is actually wrong.

    I am not sure how we should take this news. Does Gerry have to accept he was wrong ? Do we have to inform Arneson-Gygax families all these years they have been wrong about D&D ?


    Cult of Games Member

    We have a heretic!

    And he has proof!

    Call the inqusition!



    Shots fired!




    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  warzan. Reason: ooohhhh and 50xp mysteriously appears muahahahahahaha

    Cult of Games Member

    I always thought we all knew that:
    a) Gerry knew this too and
    b) Gerry was only ever saying it to wind us all up.

    For those of us who remember D&D being “a thing” (you weren’t there man…) in the mid-80s (it came to the UK in the late 70s but it was a slow-burn thing to start) I thought it was just accepted that it only really caught on thanks to Citadels metal miniatures range sold from a spinning whirligig stand at the counter of Toy and Hobby.

    I honestly never thought anyone took the idea seriously that D&D *wasn’t* supposed to use minis!
    I thought it was just something we all went along with, like some kind of “in joke”.


    Screenshot 2023-09-26 at 08.26.41


    Cult of Games Member

    The weird bit: It never caught on here. I have never played RPG with miniatures and it was never a question if we wanted to. Every rule system I played was a character sheet, dice, a DM and some snacks. The Black Eye, Vampire the Masquerade, Star Wars, Werewolf, Shadowrun: everything played without minis. And only people playing actual D&D tend to use minis at times.

    So D&D with minis is a special case and RPGs are usually mini free? My theory.


    Cult of Games Member

    Gerry Wrong!!!!!?????
    I’m not sure how I feel about that situation, there could be deep underlying consequences like a giant pit of fiery doom opening up 😀

    I’ve only ever played 1 RPG campaign, that was back as a young lad at school in a D&D group with the history teacher who used to meet at lunchtime once a week. We didn’t use miniatures so it was all down to our imagination and I have very fond memories of that experience.



    Never ever played D&D – its for NERDS!


    I did however love the cartoon and was disappointed to learn years later that “Venger” wasn’t actually D&D cannon.


    But I did play Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay – which obviously was much cooler and promoted the use of mini’s due to GW needing to leech every last penny out of it’s customers…..


    That whole post is so meta.



    don’t forget that it was through the use of miniatures that some of the weirdest monsters for D&D came to exist, if you’re not aware Gary would buy stuff to use and make up names and rules. The rust monster is a prime example, Gary bought a cheap bunch of dinosaur toys and that monstrosity was in it and now various companies make their own versions of a fictional plastic dinosaur.


    Also I’m still right!


    Cult of Games Member

    Now all I can think about is @warzan ‘s Buzz Lightyear ships.

    Will they have a similar such legacy? Will in years time companies be producing copies of a plastic toy?


    Cult of Games Member

    I’m rather reminded of a discussion my wife and I had about Chicken Caesar Salad.
    Who likes chicken caesar salad?
    No, not like you get at the pub, or your local cafe – *real* caesar salad. With anchovies in it.

    This is how this whole “minis aren’t for D&D” argument feels.

    My wife insists that anchovies are an abomination in caesar salad and have no place in there. She’s wrong, of course. Sure, bacon adds the saltiness originally provided by the tiny little fishy fillets, and some people even say they prefer it. But that’s not how it was intended. But still, we have the discussion where she insists she is right, because only a maniac would want to put one of those nasty salty bone-riddled hairballs in their mouth, and I smile sweetly and let her have her “victory”.

    But we both know that – no matter how much she insists I’m wrong for wanting anchovies in my caesar salad – her protestations are groundless. That’s how I always felt about the “D&D doesn’t have minis, it’s a game for the theatre-of-the-mind” argument.

    Like insisting caesar salad should be lettuce, chicken and bacon, it’s now become such a widespread myth the some people actually prefer it, because it’s all they’ve ever known. The idea that it should be any other way – and, in particular, that it started out differently – is lost on them. But to insist it’s the “right and true” way?

    Yep, we’ll play along, nodding sagely and agreeing that “of course there’s no fish in a caesar salad”.
    But that’s just to keep the peace. Because, deep down, those who insist that their bastardised corruption of a classic is the one and only true way to make it, they know they’re wrong too.

    (although, unlike caesar salad, where I quite like the corrupted version, I tried “theatre-of-the-mind” D&D a few times, at my then-gaming-groups insistence. It was shite.)


    Cult of Games Member

    Great… now I’m hungry.

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