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Everything was better back in the day! Even the clickbait!

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This topic contains 53 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  sundancer 1 month ago.

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  • #1672152

    sundancer
    34751xp
    Cult of Games Member

    But seriously, what’s with the “glorification” of old stuff? Yes, there where games that where great (according to people who actually played them) that are no longer available. And there are some that where great at the time but don’t really stand the test of time but are more a nostalgic thing. Finally some things are just “that’s missing in my collection to make it complete” things. And of course there where those games that where really shit but everybody played it at some point because “it was all we had”.

    But do these arguments really justify horrendous prizes? Let’s grab some well known examples:

    • HeroQuest
    • StarQuest/Space Crusade
    • Man O War
    • Gorkamorka
    • Warhammer Epic 40k

    If you try to buy any of the above mentioned games you need *really* deep pockets. These games never where cheap to begin with (especially the last 3) but pricing has gone complete bonkers. Why is that? I really try to wrap my head around this.

    Is it just that some people/collectors have more money then common sense? Or is it just sellers making up weird prices and nobody pays except one “collector” who thinks he can flip the collection for even more money in a year?

    When is the best time to grab “old school” and “Out Of Production” stuff? And where?

    Ebay had been a good place for this 20’ish years ago because the hobby itself wasn’t “normal” at that point. At least in Germany you would be seen as a Nerd/Geek. Today playing and collecting has become normal. Mainly because the geeks grew up and had children. Today the only way to get a “deal” is either to wait until some noob player looses interest and sells of everything just to have the basement cleared or to hope for some find on a flea market or boot sale.

    What’s your take on this? Why do so many gamers insist on “everything was better back in the day” when most things where just simpler and maybe even “dumber”? Why do we tend to glorify the past so much in our hobby?

    #1672153

    avernos
    Keymaster
    28223xp

    Why do so many gamers insist on “everything was better back in the day” when most things where just simpler and maybe even “dumber”? Why do we tend to glorify the past so much in our hobby?

    Pretty much every pre- 90s historic game was far more complex and interesting than what we have now. Even GW games were more detailed and intricate with the exception of a handful of introductory games that were very specifically meant to be just that, HeroQuest and Space Crusade being prime examples.

    #1672154

    sundancer
    34751xp
    Cult of Games Member

    See, this is why I need the brains of the other CoGs. I was there in the 90s but didn’t start playing until late 90s and then only 40k and Blood Bowl… my knowledge is very… “second hand”?

    But still the question remains: if introductory games where the ones simplified why the steep prices? And if the games where more complex and are getting ridiculous numbers on the second hand market why didn’t they (the manufactures) stick to it?

    Or is my view on this just to simplistic? Am I wanting a simple world too badly?

    #1672155

    nogginthenog
    3471xp
    Cult of Games Member

    All those games a great, I have 3 of that list bought when they were new.

     

    But none of them are worth current prices. Good games, but all show their age now. For instance, man o war is still enjoyable, but there are several ship games that are better available today, the mantic one for instance, and they don’t cost silly money.

    Probably the only exception is epic, which stands head and shoulders above most other rulesets, and the fantasy version, warmaster, is probably the best ruleset that GW has ever produced, if you ignore the historical games stuff they did for a short while.

    As to why they are expensive?

    People who grew up with them are now in our 40s and 50s, and thanks to pandemics and so on have had more free time to fill.

    #1672166

    sundancer
    34751xp
    Cult of Games Member

    People who grew up with them are now in our 40s and 50s, and thanks to pandemics and so on have had more free time to fill.

    But weren’t the prices already way up pre-pandemic? To be honest I really didn’t look as closely for most of it other than the occasional “let’s see where epic is”

    #1672167

    avernos
    Keymaster
    28223xp

    from here on I’m going to decide that all comments are referring to GW, as that seems to be the grounding here.

    As far as  the ebay prices, that’s just people paying what they think it is worth to them, could be nostalgia, it could be that they expect to sell them on for more later.

    As far as the simplification of better games, WFB, 40K, and the like goes that is very simple. These games were fantastic but limited the amount of money GW could make. If you only needed 15 space marines and a predator to play a full fulfilling and interesting game then it was a cul de sac for GW emptying your wallet.

    As they simplified the games they lowered point costs and increased the amount of miniatures required to play. In some cases the only difference in new books was points cuts

    #1672168

    zorg
    15669xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I have played/own many of the game’s you mentioned but I don’t think the prices of them was that expensive for the time I’m sure Heroquest was around 40/45£ about the same as other game’s out from what I remember.

    #1672170

    horus500
    10078xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I still own and loved everyone of those games and would add Warmaster, Battlefleet Gothic and Mordheim. The reality is that GW doesn’t do fun anymore, they do profits.  Every player is just revenue. They don’t want free content creators or anyone doing anything they can’t control. They don’t listen and they can’t handle dissension. They don’t want fans or your love, they want revenue. They will fall again like they did a few years ago. Another X-Wing will come, and when it does, GW won’t know what to do, just like they didn’t last time. They’ll just have to wait and hope their challenger screws up like X-Wing did.

    #1672171

    torros
    20903xp
    Cult of Games Member

    For games that weren’t 28mm by GW there have always been proxies available . This is even more so now with the Internet and 3d printing

    #1672172

    warzan
    Keymaster
    26029xp

    Yeah, I was lucky and picked most of these up again about 12 years ago or so.

    My last heroquest project it was cheaper to 3D print what I wanted to replicate than try and buy it – (Yes i went 15mm but it would have been pretty much the same if I’d stayed at the original scale)

    #1672173

    sundancer
    34751xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Just as an idea: would people even flock more to the old games if G’Wullu would offer the rules as a PDF for free or a small amount of money? Would that lead to even more inflated prices of the old stuff?

    #1672176

    I remember around 95/96 most the GW specialist games ended up in The Works for £10 each. Where upon I picked up 3rd Ed Talisman and two of the expansions for around £30. I also bought Blood Bowl and Space Hulk for a tenner each.

    I no longer have them as I left all of them at my parents house when I went abroad in 99 to work.  My brother took them and still has them

    #1672178

    rastamann
    2428xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I don’t agree with you in regards to ManOWar, Gorkamorka or, particularly, Epic.

    The advent of 3d printing made it so it’s extremely easy to get into Epic, especially given that the rules for it are freely and legally available on the web, for at least 2 of the editions (2nd and 4th).

    In regards to Gorkamorka, not only can you easily find the rules, but the use of current Ork models makes it a breeze to get into.

    In my particular case, I’ve had the Epic’s different systems as my main go to game since the release of Epic Armageddon at least, and I built up a large collection even before it went the way of the dodo in GW’s and FW’s webstores. Then came forumware models, which were mostly better than GW’s own original offerings and probably alongside with Blood Bowl in community led support in it’s early inception, and 3rd party producers like Vanguard, Troublemaker, Trolls under the Bridge and Onslaught Minis brought in even more great models. So, no it’s not hard at all to get into Epic and, I’d wager, significantly less expensive than most current games. I’ve got a pretty large collection myself, over 200k points strong, of which 54k points are painted up.

    There are a lot of Patreon offerings nowadays for STL files of Warmaster compatible miniatures, as well as BFG, and updated community maintained rulebooks as well, so…

    #1672180

    rastamann
    2428xp
    Cult of Games Member

    As for rules systems being better – Epic Armageddon is, without a doubt, one of the best combined arms rulesets I’ve ever played, with an amazing integration with aircraft and their missions; Epic 40,000 allowed for 2-300 vehicles to duke it out to conclusion in a couple of hours, something which no other game does well, to this day, whereas the Warmaster system was so good as to have adaptations to 28mm, to WWII and Post-WWII warfare, as well as ancients and medieval times.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  rastamann.
    #1672181

    warzan
    Keymaster
    26029xp

    @warhammergrimace

    You need us to form a posse, and head to your Bro’s!!!

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