GW legal threat forces War Banner into a name change

[theamazingmrg]

I was already in the “GW wasn’t getting any of my money except for the occasional paint pot” camp and always thought people were a bit too quick to get behind the “new, customer-friendly” GW.  This news just convinces me I made the right choice.

[wesadie1969]

They are customer friendly, just watch out if you are a wargames company.

[limburger]

GW does what any other business of sufficient size has to do : sent in the lawyers to clear out anyone and anything infringing on their IP. War banner would be doing the exact same thing if they were the big dog and GW was the annoying pest that was entering their turf.

I seriously doubt this would be winnable for War banner even if they had the resources to compete against GW.

Apple Corps vs Apple Computer :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer

Different fields of industry and they still managed to cause legal trouble the moment Apple decided to publish music …

Then there’s this :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confusing_similarity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counteraction_principle

Jumping on the ‘I hate GW’ train is easy, but we still don’t know the exact wording of the letter that GW sent to these guys.

Dark peak Games is a heck of an improvement over war hammer *eh* banner.

The law is the law. Whether or not that ‘sounds alike’ matters in the digital era is not relevant, because the law says it matters.
You want things changed ?
Then vote for the people who do want to change these types of aspects of current laws.
Sad news is that with the exception of the Pirate party the vast majority will vote in favour of big business.
(as was recently proven by the Article 13 in the EU)

[frankelee]

Don’t live in the UK, so I don’t know how the law sides there, in America War Banner would have been fine ignoring the C&D. Personally I think GW should cool it on the legal bullying, there didn’t seem to be any legitimate case of brand confusion or dilution here, it’s purely throwing their weight around.

[phaidknott]

Personally I think Andy should have changed the name to “War Hamster” (if he had the money to throw away). Purely so he could frame the legal letter from GW on the second attempt on the office wall.

I still liked Footsore as a name, perhaps they should have reverted to that (although War Banner was supposed to encompass all the different product lines, not just the Footsore range that initially formed the core of the business). It’s that now Andy and co have to spend a lot of money on the rebrand, redoing all the packaging et etc (not just the legal cost of changing the company name).

I DO however still have this naïve concept that companies shouldn’t be able to claim words in the English Dictionary as theirs. War Banner was used far, far long before it ever featured in a GW publication (as did the word Warhammer). A company logo is usually a mixture of the word, colours used and font etc (this is them copyrighted). Alas these days it seems we can’t even have the English language as “open source”. I wonder if we’ll need to change the name of the hobby from “War Gaming” to “Miniature Gaming” at some point in the future 😀

Still I wonder if “War Hamster” is available, Anne?

 

[zeker1966]

Even New York City Transit Authority (the MTA) has filed C&D’s to prevent people from using their symbols. Basically colored dots with letters or numbers in them.

[Anonymous]

In good news, North Star have sold out of Mortal Gods and War Banner only have a few left in stock!  Seems to be popular.

[torros]

On a facebook 10mm group someone was saying that this company got another C&D over the Dark Peak name. It was said it was from a mobile phone games company

[Anonymous]

@torros yes, I read that yesterday as well, from a company called Peak Gaming.

[blipvertus]

Yep, they’ve temporarily labeled themselves as DPG: Footsore until they sort it out.

Im thinking the next move is No Name Games. Or Cease and Desist Games.

[zoidpinhead]

These guys just can’t catch a break.  Perhaps their Google-fu should have been a bit stronger though.  Having got into issues with one name it seems a bit careless the run up against another C&D quite so quickly.

[limburger]

@phaidknott : there already is an ‘Angry Hamster publising’ company ( https://www.angryhamsterpublishing.com/ )
I do agree that copyright & trademarking have resulted in some rather silly (and stupid) situations.
OTOH … there are companies out there who will try anything to leech of a popular franchise (like 40k) instead of trying to be creative.
The sad news is that the laws (as they are) tend to favour the companies with big pockets and plenty of resources.

@frankelee :
Given that they mention that “..(we) have worked with GW to reach a satisfactory conclusion” I kind of doubt GW sent in the big lawyers wielding cease&desist guns.
OTOH … even a friendly letter from GW’s legal department (‘would you kindly rename your company as it infringes on our trademark(s)’ ) will have enough weight to make anyone reconsider.

Trying to win a legal battle that results in the death of your company is something that won’t help anyone pay their bills.

[dogma2097]

The War Banner logo, branding and positioning was never stepping on GW toes, deriving from or passing off as GW – and a “War banner” is a pretty recognised item of battle. Rather than the Apple Computer vs Apple Records, I’d of fought it as Apple Computer vs Apricot Computer – no case to answer as they are two separate and distinguishable entities. On the other hand, I can see where confusion may creep in from outside of interested parties, so for War Banner’s own future marketing, avoiding people confusing their offering with GW (esp as they now call their stores “Warhammer”) it’s probably for the best.

The issue I have is that there is a finite amount of items and terminology in warfare, and when trademarking one (or several) recognised trappings enable you not only to prevent someone using those, but one’s you HAVEN’T trademarked, surely that is anticompetitive. It may be similar, but, by jove, it’s not the same.

“GW, Games Workshop, Citadel, Black Library, Forge World, Warhammer, the Twin-tailed Comet logo, Warhammer 40,000, the ‘Aquila’ Double-headed Eagle logo, Space Marine, 40K, 40,000, Warhammer Age of Sigmar, Battletome, Stormcast Eternals, White Dwarf, Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Space Hulk, Battlefleet Gothic, Dreadfleet, Mordheim, Inquisitor, Warmaster, Epic, Gorkamorka, and all associated logos, illustrations, images, names, creatures, races, vehicles, locations, weapons, characters, and the distinctive likenesses thereof, are either ® or TM, and/or © Games Workshop Limited, variably registered around the world. All Rights Reserved.”

“Epic” when applied to gaming…
Why haven’t they gone after – https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/ ?

[frankelee]

@limburger :

Oh I dunno, if I were them I’d do a “Help Pay the Legal Bills Kickstarter” if GW actually sued me over so weak a claim, they’d probably make seven figures (which would be more than enough in subsequent profit to cover the legal fees for that kind of case). They’d even have a chance to recoup their legal fees. It’s hard to believe they didn’t get a C&D, since to lawyers that is the friendliest proper way to handle such disputes, you rarely hear about informal reach outs, but maybe not. Then again, like I said before, only if it were actually in America here, they would be sued in a British court. But if you can’t use the word “war” in the name of your wargame miniature company, well, that’s rough.

[onlyonepinman]

Although it’s a bit of an arse ache for Dark Peak, their statement was incredibly reasonable, their response pragmatic and, if I am being honest, I think the decision not to fight it was also pragmatic.  I suspect they would have stood a reasonable chance of winning however it would have been financially ruinous.  And without commenting on whether I think GW were right or wrong, I actually think “Dark Peak Games” is a much better name than War Banner.

I can’t see what GW are actually going to get out of this because I don’t see War Banner and Warhammer as being particularly similar.  That said I do not own either trademark and I am fully aware of both companies as entirely separate and distinct so it’s quite easy for me to say that

[poosh]

Um.. wasn’t this an April Fools …. ?

[elessar2590]

@poosh

No it wasn’t an April Fools it was a very real and very serious legal threat.

@onlyonepinman only now they’re in trouble with Peak Games so they’re going back to footsore.

I agree with Peak Games and their Copyright but GW were just being bullies.

[Anonymous]

With our enforced name change(s) and Facebook, not allowing us to change the name of our War Banner business page even after appeal we have no choice but to close that page down. We will be doing so on the 8th of April 2019. ?

After a lot of thought and deliberation, we have added “& Games” to the end of Footsore Miniatures to embrace this as a company name and become ‘Footsore Miniatures & Games’.

Which means this page will become our new company page and moving forwards it will start to include all our news including Gangs of Rome, Mortal Gods and Warring Clans as well as continue with updates on the Dark Ages/Saga type stuff plus anything else we are working on.

Once again we are really sorry about all of this but it really has been beyond our control. I hope our Footsore Miniatures community will embrace this change especially as our new focus will soon be the Dark Ages. ?

[brandir]

A few years ago I set up an online shop and traded at UK ware as shows, selling PP’s Warmachine and Hordes.  Initially I had also intended to set up a shop too, and was about to sign a contract to lease for a premises that had previously been called ‘The Forge’.  So I thought ‘Forge Games’ would be a suitable name for my enterprise.

Sadly (or luckily!) the deal fell through and I never signed th lease, but traded for 5 – 6 years at shows under the ‘Forge Games’ banner.

It was only after a couple of years trading that someone pointed out the similarity between Games Workshop/Forge World and Forge Games, and thought I had deliberately used GW’s branding in a devious/clever way.

Until that time I had genuinely not thought of any similarities, being oblivious.

I did wonder for a while if I would ever receive a C&D letter from GW but that never happened.  Wonder if I did set up shop again GW would have issues with the name?

[Author]

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