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Have GW just killed Warhammer Undergrounds for the casual player?

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This topic contains 13 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  jamesedwards 1 week ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #1433829

    spud75
    Participant
    325xp

    Just seen the news that GW are to drop cards from Warhammer Undergrounds on a two year cycle.

     

    Will this kill the game for casual players, with enough games competing for my cash why should I spend it on a two year cycle rather than the 4/5 that we are more used to with games?

    #1433853

    phaidknott
    Participant
    2958xp

    Well they seem to have changed how they market things over the past few years. They are doing a LOT of “limited” releases/single print run on things like cards (and they’ve brought cards into every single game they do). This adds a touch of FOMO (Fear of Missing Out), so you have to move fast and pre-purchase (some of the recent Necromunda Cards were sold out while in pre-order).

    GW Rules are also getting to be VERY expensive, for example if you want all the rules for Necromunda (and can get access to a time machine to get the gang tactic cards that are now OOP), the full rules (four hardback books and about 10 card decks) would set you back about £200. This is frankly silly when you look at it, but GW have you spending every quarter for everything released (as you might miss out on the rules as they don’t print them all in the “rulebooks” anymore) so you don’t notice at the time. To be frank it’s very good marketing, but not very pro-consumer.

    But if you want to play these GW games, I’m afraid you have to be prepared to spend almost as much on the rules/cards as you do on the mini’s themselves (if not more), even 40K is now laden with multiple card decks needed to play (which it never did before). Basically GW went from “nasty” to it’s customers, to “nice”, but now has shifted to something more insidious 😀

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by  phaidknott.
    #1433865

    divineauthority
    Participant
    516xp

    I disagree @phaidknott. If you want to be completionist then yes it is expensive, as are most games. Bolt action and all their books during first edition, Mantic with Dreadball and all the teams they released etc.

    Necromunda can at its minimum be played with the 1 rulebook and then one of the gangs with free rules online, or if not one of those then the Gangs of the Underhive book. Cards aren’t a necessity in 40k either. Not that I’ve played it often, but I’ve never used any of the decks of cards and there are a multitude of scenarios in the books you can still play. The cards are most of the time a make life easier thing for their other games.

     

    With regards to the original question, I think you sort of answer it yourself @spud75. If you’re a casual player then you can play with whatever you want, the card rotation only affects tournament play. If you’ve got a friend or group that just enjoy the game as it is now then there’s nothing stopping you from using the current cards. It wouldn’t surprise me to see some formats done by independent events similar to the current MTG setup where you’ll see a more casual “use everything in the range and go wild” kind of thing. I’ve seen a couple.of local events that have already been mixing up the Underworlds format, mixed warbands and whatnot as some fun casual tournaments.

    #1434041

    onlyonepinman
    Participant
    10576xp

    I don’t see why it ruins it for casual players as they are far more likely to just play with whatever is available. It may, however, be an issue for competitive players who will be wanting to make sure they have access to as much of the meta as possible.

    #1434090

    spud75
    Participant
    325xp

    But what when it comes to the point where a competitive player tells a casual player that the cards he’s got are no longer valid?

     

    #1434101

    maledrakh
    Participant
    5351xp

    I dont see any problem here at all. This is better than most collectible card games like Magic do.

    This is an excellent compromise to keep the game playable and fresh with new minis and cards, but still keep older teams in the loop. They are only rotating out the first season universal cards, which will be replaced with new universal cards in the third season. Any cards that are the same that you have from first season can still be used. All models and faction specific cards can still be used, so you do not need to buy anything new if you dont want to.

    This lets them cull cards that have proven to be OP or whatever and keep the card volume managable for tournament players and casual players alike.

    #1434102

    onlyonepinman
    Participant
    10576xp

    Then you tell the competitive player to shove it up their arse* and find someone else to play?

    Remember playing games is a social contract and two players with different expectations prior to a game stand a high chance of not enjoying the game.

    *other ways of declining a game are available

    #1434106

    lupa15
    Participant
    2268xp

    This really does make sense from a competitive stand point as it helps keep things fresh and prevents unwanted interactions without having pages upon pages of “you can’t take this” FAQ.

    As a casual player you can always just play with what you got.

    #1434111

    limburger
    Participant
    7617xp

    CCG’s tend to have periodic cycles for their cards. Android:Netrunner also has cards that are ‘legal’ for a limited amount of time.
    M:TG has a gigantic list of cards that gets updated after every new release. It’s a bit like the ever changing point values in (‘competitive’) wargames.

    Getting into any established tournament scene as a casual player is a hurdle that has always been there.
    It depends on the community (and the company producing the game) whether or not they’re willing to help those players get up to speed … (and they’d better make an effort because it is in their best interest to grow the pool of opponents).

    I also doubt that you can maintain more than one game at a competitive level without wasting a ton of money (and time) so you’re going to have to make sacrifices in time and money already.

    Casual gamers are likely to just buy the latest version of the starter set (which will be the season 3 variant).
    Never mind that certain teams area already unavailable (both Molog and Zarbag are web-only at best).

    #1434112

    onlyonepinman
    Participant
    10576xp

    Casual gamers are likely to buy the starter set and then maybe a warband or two based almost exclusively on whether they like the models.

    Cards that have been rotated out are still completely usable everywhere except GW sanctioned organised play events. The same is true in MtG.

    #1434140

    redben
    Participant
    9198xp

    They just lowered the bar to entry for every potential new player. Smart move and very much needed.

    #1434364

    jamesedwards
    Participant
    820xp

    Well, I agree with spud. I loved shadespire and collected 3 or 4 gorgeous warbands until the scene shifted to being far more like MTG with minis. I wanted to play casually but the vibe switched to deck building competitiveness so I had to move on.

    Still love the minis (though haven’t bought any more sets).

    #1434489

    onlyonepinman
    Participant
    10576xp

    @jamesedwards what is stopping you from playing Underworlds casually?

    #1434493

    jamesedwards
    Participant
    820xp

    Fair question — nothing other than that the people I played with all got into the more competitive side. Their choice, and I wasn’t upset or anything just disappointed.

    I would say that they weren’t necessarily competitively minded, I feel that the game took them in that direction. If we’d have realised it was going till in that direction originally we probably would have picked something else (Silver Tower perhaps which would have been a different issue!).

    A bit like nothing stopping people playing WHFB since AoS was released. The game moved on and so did most of the players.

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