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This topic contains 43 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  rastamann 1 month ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 44 total)
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  • #1618216

    rastamann
    2164xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I must admit that I’ve bought more GW stuff since NewGW came into being with Kevin Rountree than in the decade prior to that. Mostly, this was due to the new approach to specialist games and the openness they managed to get to their Warhammer Community Website.

    In fact, I believe I’ve bought everything from Adeptus Titanicus, Necromunda and Aeronautica Imperialis, plus quite a lot of Warcry and Kill Team, with a bit of 40k and Age of Sigmar thrown in for good measure. A magpie, like so many of us

    This last weekend’s preorders, however, have made me a bit wary and reluctant though. I’ was extremely excited at the prospect of the reissue of the Killzones, in particular the ones I didn’t have – Munitorum and Mechanicus. And based my expectations on what was announced in Warhammer Community’s preview post the Sunday before.

    I would imagine many independent retailers put their preorders in based on that assumption as well. So, given that I’m in the EU, but have been a big fan of OTT’s webstore. I preordered both sets as soon as they went live from OTT, being quite excited. Then I noticed someone posting somewhere that perhaps warhammer community’s preview post wasn’t completely candid, so I went and investigated further and I found out that warhammer community’s post was erroneous to the point of being false advertisement…

    They had the pictures of a killzone mechanicus and a killzone munitorum, just not what it has turned out to be. Here’s the screenshot from that day. This was up until at least saturday, 27.02:

    sunday-preview

    However, what’s actually in the boxes is quite substantially different and, value-wise, quite less of a deal.

    Killzone Sector Mechanicus – now has no ferratonic incinerator and instead has an extra plasma conduits sprue -> they took out £45 worth of terrain to add £12.5, and raised the price by £10.

    Killzone Sector Munitorum – now has 2 less containers and no crane – in effect they took out one of the Munitorum Armoured Containers and the Galvanic Servohaulers set, a total of £62.5, whilst adding in the Manufactorum Conservators kit (£25), so we actually are losing money by buying this separately if we don’t need the mat.

    In effect, the “deal” value of these sets has been lowered from £95 to £57.5 on the Sector Munitorum, and £100 to £67.5 on the Sector Mechanicus. I’m not counting the battle mat, nor am I counting the cards and rules which NO LONGER come with the sets as well. This happened while raising the prices £10 from the previous £50 to £60, a 20% price increase for a reduction of ~40% in the value of the contents.

    I just went and checked that preview post from 02.21, and it was stealth-modified:

    warhammer-preview-02.21

    Had I known that in the preview, I most certainly would NOT have preordered both these sets. I won’t back down on my purchase, though, as I bought it from OTT and I feel they’ve done everything in their power over the past year to keep things going, and it wouldn’t be fair to them but this has left quite a sour taste on the part of GW’s business practices, and I even wrote to them on this matter (not that I imagine there’ll be any sort of reply other than a noncommital one).

    I live in Portugal, and if this was a Portuguese company, I would likely have lodged a complaint against false advertising.

    I really hope this is not the shape of things to come…

     

    #1618217

    warzan
    Keymaster
    25554xp

    This made for some sad reading mate 🙁

    But please don’t feel under any obligation to keep an order open with us. We appreciate your support so much, but your satisfaction with the service is paramount, so if the shine has went off this reach out to the team and they will sort out a cancelation for you! 🙂

    I’m only sorry we can’t fill the boxes with the sprues you had been expecting in the first place!

    #1618225

    onlyonepinman
    13974xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I suspect what has happened is that when they put tbe preview up on Warhammer Community they didn’t actually have a photo of the final product and instead reposted old photos.

    GW might well point us to the box contents that they show on the item listing, However I still think it’s bad form for them to generate hype and excitement using unrepresentative photography because that definitely drives some people to order without looking (I know I might well have fallen into that trap).

    #1618234

    pagan8th
    Participant
    4130xp

    It could simply be a mistake. It does happen.

    Someone may have uploaded wrong box contents pictures to website.

    #1618275

    limburger
    16416xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Thanks for posting the info @rastamann
    It saves me money.

    This lack of accurate information (wether intentional or not) is always a factor in preorders of any kind.
    Killteam has always been a bit of ‘cheap’ game (lots of repackaged terrain and troops, practically no ‘new’ content) compared to WarCry which (IMHO) has been treated more like its own thing. The killteam packs however were decent value for money (a small squad + terrain).

    Purely based on pictures on GW’s website it looks like the Killteam:Munitorum Hub is a combination of two terrain sets :
    – Battlezone: Manufactorum – Munitorum Armoured Containers (32,50) : 3 containers, a bit of scatter

    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Battlezone-Manufactorum-Munitorum-Armoured-Containers-2020

    – Battlezone: Manufactorum – Conservators (25) : 1 container, 2 ‘machinery’ pieces and a bit of scatter

    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Battlezone-Manufactorum-Conservators-2020

    The map itself appears to be valued at roughly 15 pounds based on the Battlezone Manufactorum having two boards and may very well be one of them in that pack (30):
    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Battlezone-Manufactorum-2020

    Now sold as 60 total value, which is technically a ‘saving’ but given that it is impossible to buy the board and given that it is the least interesting part of the package that is stretching the definition.

    Descriptions of both terrain sets don’t match the one of the ‘hub’, which could be down to them going into as much detail (maybe an unboxing of all the sets is in order ?).

    It is less a ‘they took stuff out’ and more a ‘combine two smaller sets’.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if the two ‘new’ sets where a similar deal.

    I must admit that it is very tricky to know what exact content is in these new sets based on the info provided by GW.
    Add to this the re-packaging of the same sprues across multiple sets (the pipelines have appeared in the new ‘starter set’ as well as the ‘upgrade’ sets) and maximizing value for money without too many duplicates is tricky.

    The worst part isn’t so much the cost, but the fact that the unreliable supply means you may not be able to get the ‘cheaper’ combo pack and could be ‘forced’ to buy the more expensive stuff. I suspect that like all of the Killteam stuff this will be ‘limited supply’

    #1618278

    rastamann
    2164xp
    Cult of Games Member

    @warzan thanks for the offer, mate, I had a feeling you guys would do just that, but like I said, I won’t back down on my purchase, and that was not at all the intent of my post – I still will get something out of the contents, just not what I was planning in the first place, and I wouldn’t feel right going back on a purchase when you guys did nothing wrong.

    I agree that a mistake could have been made, as I tend more to think carelessness rather than obfuscation is the reason behind most of these misteps, @pagan8th and @onlyonepinman, but in that case stealth-ammending the preview post is in very bad form and certainly does nothing to make it look like an innocent mistake and smears the reputation and credibility of their company

    @limburger, you’re welcome 🙂 glad that this is of some use to someone at least!! 🙂

    Like I said, the current contents is:

    • Munitorum set – 1 x Armoured Containers and 1 x Manufactorum Conservators
    • Mechanicul set – 1 x Alchomite Stack and 1.5 x of the old Thermic Plasma Conduits

    plus the same 22×30 mat they had previously.

    The Fronteris set, however, seems to be a step up – they didn’t take anything out (other than the cards and rules) and included an extra sprue of the small ruins.

    In either case, yes, I also agree that the warcry sets have been its own thing, lots of new models that actually are its own thing. Kill Team feels to be really geared up to giving a solid way into 40k (though IMHO the rules are superior in Kill Team).

    The Kill Teams used to be a nice deal, with a sprue of terrain and the models – these felt like they really were worth the mony – I don’t exactly know what will happen now.

    #1618411

    limburger
    16416xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I think GW felt the need to shove something ‘new’ out of the door to combine with the new starter set.
    If they had not done so then the Killteam section of the shop would be filled with ‘out of stock’ items as pretty much everything in that game had a very short production run.

    And with GW mentioning that you could combine one of the ‘new’ killteam terrain sets with a ‘combat patrol’ set per player you’ve got enough for the smallest possible 40k game variant it feels like they’re doing everything they can to avoid committing to actual fresh killteam content.

    #1618601

    rastamann
    2164xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I think you’re probably right @limburger. Still it’s a shame to see them go back to this sort of thing.

    #1618738

    iceeagle85
    Participant
    3390xp

    That is quite bad, but it really could have been a mistake.

    But nonetheless I’d say GW has never strayed to far from it’s old ways.

    #1618742

    sundancer
    30419xp
    Cult of Games Member

    But nonetheless I’d say GW has never strayed to far from it’s old ways.

    My thoughts exactly. It’s so heartbreaking. People love the IP and the universe and where so relieved when G’Wullu took a step towards a more open community… but I sadly never really believed it. Mainly because I’m a grumpy old man but also because of little things. Like: the need to be a paying subscriber on twitch to be able to comment on what is basically a commercial. Disabled comments on YouTube. Making an employee close his (very successful) YouTube channel that did nothing but show people how to paint. And then the constant artificial scarcity of products. “Re-launches” of old ranges with just enough changes to make using existing collections impossible.

    I always need to tell myself: companies the size of G’Wullu are in it for the money. Nothing more. Some employees may not but the shareholders and leaders are. That’s why you shouldn’t trust them or bond with them emotionally.  Small, one man companies like Heresy or Oakbound are in it for the money too but they fuel it with passion and soul and love for the community.

    I wouldn’t say G’Wullu is “bad” as in “it wants you dead” but they don’t really care about feelings. They feed of your wallet, not your emotions. Small, independent studios do (partially) feed of your emotions. Because the positive feedback keeps them going. Even if sales go down every now and again.

    #1619058

    limburger
    16416xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I think GW did become a bit more ‘open’ than it used to be.
    However given how it used to absolutely hate everyone equally it wasn’t that hard to improve their public image (I’m still glad that facelift happened … ).

    I also doubt that GW could ever open up their comment sections for there youtube videos without thousands of angry nerdy fan boys spamming their hatred. Same thing applies to their twitch stream. The potential for toxic comments from either their fanboys or the anti-GW crowd is so high it probably would result in YouTube banning them within days for violating their ToS.

    (btw: White Dwarf has always been an ad catalog for their own product since they stopped featuring non GW stuff last century … )

    It sucks that they can’t be more open and friendly towards hobbyists, but then … what business really is ?
    //

    @rastamann yeah … it does suck, because the game has soo much potential.
    I think the best way to treat GW products is to look at the individual releases and use them for parts you can’t get anywhere else (unless you own a 3D printer … ).
    With ‘open’ systems like Frostgrave promoting the maker-attitude towards gaming we already have better alternatives than (most) GW rules.

    Saga Age of Magic and/or Warlords of Erehwon as alternates for AoS
    Starbreach as a 40k / Killteam alternative

    I think WarCry is the only thing that feels like a system that has decent support from GW.

    //
    It does kind of suck that GW produces really good terrain kits, but they chose to keep their stocks so limited that you either need to buy them the moment they are released or ‘risk’ paying more for less as the kits get re-packaged.
    I suspect the beancounters took issue with the amount of potential savings that were possible with (some of) the Killteam kits in particular.

    #1619139

    hobbyhub
    3046xp
    Cult of Games Member

    @limburger – I do wonder if the price increase we saw for these Kill Team releases had something to do with the vouchers that GW were giving away around this time last year at the start of lockdown.   I got NZ$20 free when buying NZ$200 of virtual vouchers….

    But this Kill Team release, with all the mistakes made, has really put me off.  And I was a big Kill Team buyer.

    And their latest give away scheme of loading your cart with 300 pounds when you signed up for MyWarhammer accounts, and they are going to draw 3 accounts at random to win the contents of their cart…. I wonder how many people ended up buying the contents of the cart anyways.

    #1619144

    phaidknott
    4890xp
    Cult of Games Member

    If you’re spending $300 dollars on GW terrain, then you’re near the cost of buying a 3D printer and making your own.

    In this day and age 3D printers are really putting the squeeze on producers of wargaming terrain (both in plastic, resin, and MDF), so the only way they can compete is to make their packages MORE value for your buck.

    GW may be pricing themselves out of the market as there’s lots of files that produce “similar” looking products available. They used to do some really nice packages a couple of years ago (the first killzone box set, the first Warcry etc etc), but of late they seem to be penny pinching on recent releases (like how many conduits do you need?). The first release of the  Sector Mechanicus (with things like the ferratonic incinerator) terrain in the box set (sorry can’t remember the name of the game that came out as a precursor to Killzone) was fantastic value. But after that box set went OOP, all the terrain became extremely expensive (for a plastic sprue). So 3D printers seems to be the way to go until GW get their head out of their ass and realise they DO have some serious competition that they can’t just take legal action against to take them out of the market.

    #1619175

    horus500
    7612xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I know I’m something of a ‘silver lining’ type of thinker but I think that GW returning to the ‘evil empire’ is good for the industry. Currently GW is the biggest ape in the jungle. The reality is that there are some really good sculptors, manufacturers and game creators out there. Those smaller product producers aren’t getting the market exposure they deserve and if GW sours the market enough they will get an opportunity for a bigger ‘slice of the pie’.

    GW produce excellent miniature. Have an outstanding IP and are the gateway for many, if not most people into miniature gaming. But they are greedy, evil bastards. They screw over the entire southern hemisphere and do their best to restrict trade. They are cold-hearted pricks and anyone saying otherwise has not dealt with GW as a business entity. If you think they abuse hobbyists, you should see what they do to independent stockists! They treat independent stockists so badly that they leave you with Battered-wife/Stockholm Syndrome.

    #1619191

    sundancer
    30419xp
    Cult of Games Member

    They treat independent stockists so badly that they leave you with Battered-wife/Stockholm Syndrome.

    Sounds exactly like the thing the owner of my (now out of business) FLGS had told me. Some of the requirements are… mental.

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