Skip to toolbar

Noob help wanted with 40k Space Wolves

Home Forums Science Fiction Tabletop Game Discussions Noob help wanted with 40k Space Wolves

Supported by (Turn Off)

Related Games:

This topic contains 19 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  lawnor 2 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1331163

    lawnor
    19548xp
    Cult of Games Member

    As some of you may remember, I bought a lot of second hand 40k for almost nothing last year.  See my project covering this here for pictures and more details.   I believe the bulk of what was in the box is Space Wolves (SW) so I’ve been building it up around that idea, and I am pretty sure that has involved assembling a couple of Terminators with Space Wolf and Dark Angel branded parts and mistaking one Guardsman as a marine because I just didn’t look too closely, but otherwise I think I’m OK on that front.  I’ve begun painting my troops now and I’ve been thinking towards list building but I don’t know my ass from my elbow.

    I don’t really know 40K.  It’s always been there in the background, but I’ve never really played it.  I usually play Warmachine and if I pick up a box of Trenchers in that game, I have the same Trenchers as everyone else.  I don’t get to pick weapon options.  I can’t swap out the shoulder pads and they become Trencher Elites or whatever.

    I’ve gone to the official list builder app and gone looking for generic space marines or terminators and they aren’t listed.  Confusing.  I’ve gone to third party list builders and they require me to pick my Force organisation first and I’ve no idea what I want.  Force my way through that and I get similar issues to the official program.  I’ve gone to the Codex and I’m looking at the lists of stats, but again nothing is labelled as “These are the space marine models” and there is no art work or photos so I can’t even guess from that.  So I go to the website and find the box of the marines and I find they can be built in to 3 different units.  The Grey Hunters, the Blood Claws of the Wolf Guard, and the Terminators appear to be Wolf Guard Terminators although there might be another type of terminator.  I’m not sure yet.

     

    So I’ve come here with a few questions I’d appreciate some help with:

    1. From the visual viewpoint, what is the difference between the 3 types of SW Space Marine troops?  How do I work out which I have built?  Should I be painting them a specific way to match?  Or are they the same and I just declare which they are before the game/during list building?
    2. Playstyle / rules wise, whats the difference between the three.  I have the codex and I can look at the stats, but experience is often a factor in judging such things.
    3. Are all SW Terminator units Wolf Guard Terminators?  If there are others please apply Q1 and Q2 here.
    4. What is the accepted standard points / power level of games these days?  Does the community use both methods of costing, or is one still the preferred?  Is power used for throwing casual lists together quickly on the fly, but points is preferred for planned balanced games?
    5. I’ll include a list of what I think I have in a moment.  Might this be the basis for a viable competitive list?  4 Tanks, 2 dreadnoughts, 1 HQ and 2 10 man units appears a little vehicle heavy but I don’t know anything.  What would you add/remove to make a standard size fun competitive list, perhaps with an eye towards including cool looking fun to paint models? (I may not get a game in, but I will paint if I buy).  For more details please check out my project.  It includes photos so weapon loadouts can be attained that way.  I’m going to have to work that out for myself soon.
    6. Is there a competent Kill Team amongst the stuff I own?
    7. With my troops built, if I play at an organised event do I have to play them with the weapons they are built holding, or can I be flexible?
    8. When building a new unit from scratch is everyone supposed to have the same weapons, or can you go as varied as the rules for that unit allow?
    9. Does anyone know if the Start Collecting boxes are balanced against each other, or if they all just contain a similar value of models with a view to 1x unit, 1x  special unit of bigger guys, 1x monster/vehicle?  I’m curious about this for 40k and AoS.
    10. Do Start Collecting boxes come with relevant transfers?  If so, if I picked up a Space Wolf box, would it have enough transfers to do its marines as Wolf Guard, and some separate Grey Hunter transfers I might be able to apply to the models I already have?  Or are the markings not that specific?  I’m learning, but it is slow.
    11. More questions likely to be added later

     

    swlist

    EDIT 16/01/19: Turns out the sum formula wasn’t set up right.  Battlescribe tells me some different points costs too and the data was updated a few days ago.  Here’s an updated version of the above table.  At 1000 points for a 2 hour game I have enough already.  At 2000 points for an ITC standard game I don’t need much to get there.

    swlist

    • This topic was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by  lawnor.
    #1331420

    lawnor
    19548xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Having had a good hard look at the books, I think I’ve worked out what marines and terminators I have built.  Out of my 12 actual marines I have one that can pass for a Blood Claw, 9 that pass for grey hunter and 9 that pass for Wolf Guard.  2 of those Wolf guard pass for Wolf Guard leaders for Grey Hunters though so I have a 10 man unit of Grey Hunters it appears.  Here’s my works.  Please correct me if  I am wrong.  I assume none of those weapons costs are taken in to account in the units base cost?

     

    swlistsm

    Total points cost now comes to: 665+63+109 = 837

    #1332477

    avernos
    Keymaster
    26396xp

    I thought someone would have weighed in on this before now. I’m not massively up to speed but I’ll try to give you a rough idea.

    Then someone who knows but hasn’t bothered commenting can swoop in and rip my reply to shreds, it’s the interweb after all.

    1. Blood Claws are youngest and fightiest, pistol and chain axe and charge, Grey Hunters are the standard line troops Bolter and CC weapon if you want, Wolf Guard are veterans. Pack Markings on the shoulders are the easiest way to tell them apart, red and yellow for Claws, red and black for Hunters, Yellow and Black for wolf guard.
    2. Beyond what I’ve written above, I’ve no idea since I’ve not looked at a SW codex in years, sorry
    3. All terminators are wolf guard, not all wolf guard need to be terminators
    4. 2000 for ITC, power level I think around 50… not sure again haven’t really played new ed much
    5. For competitive builds you’ll probably struggle if you don’t table your opponent quickly, as I don’t think you can hold objectives with vehicles. For fun games, sure, go nuts 🙂
    6. pass
    7. the tournament pack will stat whether it’s WYSIWYG or not, but erring on the side of caution I would say play as they’re built
    8. the codex will tell you what the options are there is a lot of flexibilty in building especially with the wolves. Magnets may be your friend here
    9. GW have never, and probably will never, balanced the starter sets. Anything in power armour will punch well above the other contents
    10. Yes checked with Justin and you get the lot.
    #1332497

    lawnor
    19548xp
    Cult of Games Member

    @avernos , Thank you.  It was looking like I was talking to myself.  It did at least force me to go deeper in to the books and figure out some of this myself, although I couldn’t find answers for everything and it’s always good to get verification.

    1: I’d found a guide to the markings and spent the last couple of days studying and deciphering their stats to work out what I have and I now know I need to repaint a couple of shoulder pads.  I’ll probably skip the unit markings for now.  That way if I get in to playing them and buy more marines I can mix up the units a little once I have the experience to know what I want.  I still had no idea if there were more physical difference between the troop types so I’m happy to hear there’s nothing significant.

    3: I’ve noticed that.  Wolf Guard and Wolf Guard Terminators and Wolf Guard Leaders and Wolf Guard Terminator leaders.  And Cav.  They do like making this awkward, don’t they?

    4: I’d stumbled in to the ITC.  I love a good OPD.  GW really needs to embrace that idea to standardise the idea of what a non-casual game looks like.  It lets everyone build and practise to the same ideals and standards.  I’ve also seen a few local events go buy in my bookface feed and they seem to vary the points.  At 2000 points the game is aiming for 3 hour matches. That’s long for a game.  I have trouble finding 2 hours for a casual game of Warmachine (My main game).

    7:  That’s kinda what I was planning for now, but its always good to have an idea of the communities feeling on the subject

    8: I’m coming to understand this.  I’m not keen on overusing magnets.  I already have lots of limbs etc painted up and magnetised that I need to store without losing, and store and transport without them chipping paint off each other.  it’s definitely the way to go on the bigger, more expensive models that I have fewer of.  Not something I’d want to do with front line infantry.  I’m curious if anyone has some inventive storage/transport solutions for this.  Right now I try and fit each part into infantry foam, possibly adding extra foam to allow a couple of parts in one slot.

    9: I was afraid of this.  It’s such a shame.  It makes it hard to get in to, outside of a 2 player box (Assuming they are more balanced?).  Although, the value of those boxes, especially at the standard 10-20% off, I shouldn’t complain too much.

    10: Cheers.  I was hoping this was the case.  The only box I bought was the previous Tyranids one and they don’t use transfers so I didn’t know.  I bought the Tank War starter set for Bolt Action a few years back and although the tanks sold separately come with transfers, the Tank War box had none.

     

    After @evilstu ‘s recent solo play articles I’m considering painting up to 500 points and playing a demo game Vs myself with my Tyranids to learn the rules and try to work out how I’d want to build up, based around what I own.  This should help everything make more sense.  I’m considering documenting the whole learn to play experience over multiple games with growing points as a Battle Report style project, giving feedback not only on the game and my decisions, but my feelings and experiences as an outsider getting in, and as a solo player.  I’ve a fair bit of painting to do first though.

     

    Another side question someone might be able to help with.  I got the Behemoth of Decay from Titan Forge via Asset Drop recently.  I really feels designed for a Nurgle army.  however he is equipped with a sword and shield.  I’ve dug through all the 40k codecs I can find and no demons appear to use shield.  I could call it decorative, or a relic I suppose, and make him a Daemon prince, but I was wondering if there were any demons it matches, should I start a small Chaos force.  I do have 3 other large Daemons already.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by  lawnor.
    #1332549

    avernos
    Keymaster
    26396xp

    the 2 player starter sets aren’t balanced so go based on savings and what you fancy would be my suggestion.

    Documenting solo play sounds like fun, and it’s a good way to get to grips with the basics.

    There isn’t a shield wielding demon that it could stand in for, but certainly use him that way regardless, or if it’s a demon prince then you can always use it to justify an equipment upgrade for it’s save. I know they used to have that not sure if they still do mind you.

    Anything else ask away, I’ll do my best to give you a hand.

    #1332550

    lawnor
    19548xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Thanks for your help.  I’m sure I’ll be back next time I stumble in to rules or visual fluff I didn’t know was there.

    #1332602

    amachan
    Participant
    23012xp

    Some additions and corrections to Gerry’s answers.

    2. Blood claws work well in large packs and in melee, with their berserk charge and chainswords they get like 3 attacks a man on the charge. Great for wiping out horde armies. Grey Hunter are your basic tactical marines, great for ranged combat with a variety of weapons, but can do melee quite well if need be, especially since they can carry chainswords for free. Wolf Guard are your elites, they can be equipped to do a multiple array of tasks depending on what you need.

    4. I always play with points. GW’s standard is 2000 points or 100 power level. Power level can be really unbalanced as specific weapon options and such are not part of the cost, so therefore I never use it. At my local store playing games of a 1000 or 1500 points is more the standard for a casual game.

    5. To correct Gerry here, you can hold objectives with vehicles in 8th ed. They just count as 1 model and rarely have the armies objective secured rule. More models on a an objective than your opponent means you hold it, unless you opponent has a model with their objective secured rule on them, then you need to have more models with that rule on an objective than your opponent. Most troops have this rule.

    6. Not having played Killteam, but have had a look at it for my Space Wolves I found that the equipment you’d give to Space Wolves in 40k isn’t allowed in Killteam.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by  amachan.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by  amachan.
    #1332611

    lawnor
    19548xp
    Cult of Games Member

    4: I did get the feel power were more to aid in quickly throwing together an army on the fly for a game without spending hours flicking back and forth between the many pages you need to list build, and points was for planned balanced games.  It has been reassuring to see that people seem to for for points.

    6: I saw something about how there wasn’t a SW specific killteam list yet.  I didn’t know if that was out of date information.  It seems like something they really should implement.  A game on the scale of Killteam could really let the flavour of the different chapters show through.

    #1332770

    rayzryr
    14123xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Hi @lawnor

    i have a fair stash of Space Wolf transfers from years of collecting. I’d be more than happy to send some your way if you want? Some are old, so you might need to something like this to refresh them:

    http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=1a1ce45438ec08b5d4212bf5b8814145&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MD&Product_Code=MI-12&Category_Code=FINPROD

     

    But it I’ll post them to you if you want!

    #1332873

    lawnor
    19548xp
    Cult of Games Member

    That’d be awesome, thanks.  I found some Ork transfers from the turn of the century in the box with the wolves and they seemed to work OK so old may not matter.  I’ll PM you my address.  Let me know if you want anything for the transfers.

    #1333456

    dawfydd
    7553xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Hi @lawnor , couple of things that might be worth considering as you are list-building:

    • Long Fangs – use black & white for squad markings, up to six pack members, the Sgt can take a special weapon and all of  the other pack members can take a heavy weapon. If you take a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader as well then they can take a Terminator heavy weapon. Personally I’ve got ideas for sticking two packs in a drop pod with multi-meltas & heavy bolters then sticking the Startegum that allows re-rolls to hit or to wound rolls on them 😀
    • Bloodclaws/Skyclaws – turns out from the latest Chapter Approved FAQ that Skyclaws can be taken in Packs of up to 15 (plus the WGPL) as well. I reckon either of those could prove
    • You mention you have some Dark Angels mixed in there – don;t be so quick to dismiss them. The DA Codex has a Stratagem (The Lion & The Wolf) that lets you play out the ritual duel Space Wolves & Dark Angels indulge in before battle if you have models from both in your army. If the two models you pick to take part survive then they get some tasy stat buffs (fluffy too)….

    Regards costs if you want to expand, the good thing about Space Wolves &and Dark Angels to be fair) is the kit bashing. Very few of my Wolves are straight from the SW kit, instead most have been bashed together using these in concert with other kits. (I know, probably telling you how to suck eggs but I find it handy to be reminded how versatile the Astartes kits are from time to time).

    But really just have fun with it dude. Wolves benefit from being the most individualistic of Chapters, so if you want to play around with loadouts & iconoraphy fill your boots. If you want to be competitive great, but don’t let that stop it being fun to build the force. I mean hell, I’m approaching 3000 points of Wolves with the only vehicle being a single Relic Contemptor and a load of Drop Pods, all because I was determined to recreate a version of the force from the very first Ragnar Blackmane short story from back at the end of Rogue Trader.  I imagine if I tried to field it at a non-narrative event I’d get some very strange looks….

    #1335258

    lawnor
    19548xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Ok, new question.  When building a Space marine army would everyone be from the same chapter, meaning chapter markings should match across my whole collection, or at least within a given detachment if I want to go full button counter?

    #1335280

    amachan
    Participant
    23012xp

    Within a detachment, yes-ish. They can be from different chapters but I would recommend that they are at least successor chapters or the original chapter, like Imperial Fists. This gives you the chapter bonus. You can mix and match Space Marines with other chapters as you like, just be sure that in any detachment all units share a faction keyword other than Imperium, full list is in the big FAQ 2 from 2018. You can mix different factions with different detachments, like a Space Marine detachment and a Tyranid detachment and your army will still be Battle-Forged.

    #1335284

    lawnor
    19548xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I think I’ve been tripping over my terms here.  I think I meant company not chapter.  Everyone will be a Space Wolf. However, in fluff or rules terms, would everyone within a detachment or an army typically be, for example, from The Deathwolves company?  Within a unit I expect this to be consistent, but beyond that I’m not sure.  Once transfers come in to the mix I need to understand this.  I know I can play whatever I have and someone would have to be pretty anal to complain about my transfers, but part the reason for me doing this is to learn.

    #1335351

    amachan
    Participant
    23012xp

    Rules wise within the Space Wolves different companies don’t really exist, so you can technically use whatever company transfer you like.

    Lore wise however, it does happen that multiple companies get sent on a mission and thus it could be possible, but unlikely. Companies tend to stick together and often enough only one company is required for whatever mission they go on. A Space Wolf great company as they are called, are often bigger than a normal Space Marine company and can at times be larger than a whole codex astartes chapter. If you have in your army multiple Wolf Lords for instance it stands to reason that they are from different companies and thus there would be different companies on that mission your army is deployed on. So in short, they can be mixed, but unlikely to be mixed.

    On a side note, some of the new lore speaks of strike forces and I’m not sure how they work or how much Girlyman has messed up the Space Wolves with his Primaris thingies.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Supported by (Turn Off)