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Reducing scale without changing systems – Is it possible?

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This topic contains 30 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  commodorerob 2 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #1250240

    firelock22
    Participant
    8762xp

    Hello all, thanks for looking at my little ww1 page too.. and almost right, i use 1 base to represent 1 ‘soldier’ in a Bolt Action squad but i mount 2 minis ON it.  So a 5 man minimum squad becomes 10minis, 10 becomes 20 and so on.  Usually put 3 or more on 2p  sized bases for Commanders and Characters (notice the stretcher bearers? amazing what floristry wire and the ‘horse holder’ minis can be made to look like..  and yes they DO have Red Cross Armbands on as well… !!)

     

    Sorely tempted to get the bag of spare Epic scale plastics out and do a 6mm 40k, same rules just smaller (and 2 to a base so BIIG looking units) . .

    #1250307

    civilcourage
    9549xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I found the below link that discusses using different scales for different game systems which provies a rule of thumb about any changes you might need to make to measurements:

    http://troubleatthemill.blogspot.com/2016/04/figure-scale-vs-ground-scale-and.html

    Its something a few people have touched upon already but still an interesting read for anyone like me wanting to ‘give it a go’.

    I’m geared up to paint some example napoleonics minis from Baccus tonight so we will see how it goes!

    #1250809

    phaidknott
    4892xp
    Cult of Games Member

    One thing I’d like to add however is the scope of rule sets designed for 6mm miniatures. Rather than a skirmish type game, some of these are grander in scope. Taking WW2 as an example, you’ll see things like heavy artillery on board, logistics (need to keep that ammo flowing), and finally the relative scale of the game on the table allows you to make things like a flanking move on table (rather than just appearing on a table edge).

    So also take a look at some of these systems/rules as well, if you can base up to cover 2 or more rule sets you then have the option for a quick play skirmish game (like Bolt Action), and perhaps a grand scale game that might take all day (if you buy enough miniatures) 🙂

    It also might allow you to do the games I really, REALLY enjoy. And that’s the refights of historical battles. You build up two armies of what was there on the day (rather than min-maxing from a list). So you might have unit’s you wouldn’t normally choose. You then set up at the historical starting positions, and then just go at it (a bit like Time Commanders). These games tend to be a big event that you might only play once or twice a year, but they are SOOOOO worth it.

    6mm gaming also opens up a lot more options (other than just saving money and space), it can also open up a style of gaming (eg OPFOR level) where things you wouldn’t normally have to deal with in a skirmish game suddenly become all important

     

     

    #1250851

    guillotine
    14244xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Black Powder is designed for 28mm, but I’ve much preferred playing it in 15mm. The system is designed for large battles and you’d really need a 6×8 table to play it well on 28mm. Using centimetres instead of inches works well and with a standard 6×4 table will give you effectively even more space than a 6×8 using inches. And, at least for Napoleonics, there’s very pretty and detailed 15mm miniatures available, which I’ve found more joyful to paint that some of the 28mm plastics.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by  guillotine.
    #1250944

    phaidknott
    4892xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Yup the “AB Miniatures” available from Fighting 15s (or Eureka in the Southern Hemisphere), are my go to for 15mm Napoleonics (come to think of it for 20mm WW2 as well). The range basically covers nearly everything, although they are a bit bigger than most other 15mm ranges (more like 18mm), so don’t play well with other ranges. However, most poses are “March Attack” (Musket at 90 degrees), so might not be so good if you want dynamic skirmish poses (although they do some skirmish poses for some troop types).

    For Napoleonic skirmishes the Grand Scale 10mm Skirmishers (available from old Glory) are a good buy (note the basic line infantry are based on strips). At £15 for 50 it’s more than you would need, but they are molded individually (as are the Cav).

    At 6mm you are looking at sticking a load on a base (rather than individual based minis), although they are “old school”, I’m still a fan of the old Heroics and Ros figures. The never ranges like Baccus are ok, but they cast them on strips (which is a pet hate if you are trying to base them for your favourite rules system sometimes. The detail on these older figure might not be as evident, but you’ll end up just painting that detail on anyway.

    http://www.heroicsandros.co.uk/

    #1250945

    torros
    19793xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I think Adler still make the best 6mm Napoleonic range

    #1250960

    torros
    19793xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Anyone I’ve seen 6mm for Black Powder uses 60×30 bases for each unit

    #1251022

    phaidknott
    4892xp
    Cult of Games Member

    The Alder range is certainly extensive, however two things cause a problem for me. First is the slightly oversized heads (although this was a design choice at Adler to help bring out the difference in uniforms on the table. But the second (and more major issue for me), is that they are simply TOO detailed. It makes you want to try and paint everything, and does indeed deliver impressive results. However the reason why I’m still using the Heroics and Ros minis is I find it easier (and more importantly quicker) to paint the detail on (rather than try to follow the molded detail. Eg the epaulettes on Adler 6mm minis actually have the “tassles” sculpted on (dunno how he managed to sculpt that, never mind be able to cast them like that), where with H&R I just apply a small blob of paint in the right area). I just find I burn out after doing a battalion of Napoleonic French infantry using the Adler minis, whereas I can do twice the number in the same time using H&R.

    #1251976

    innes
    7747xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Changing scale makes sense in many games. Especially when it comes to weapon ranges. For example, if a sniper has a range of 36inches, in 28mm that’s only about 70yards. Not very good, but in a good position on a 6x4foot table, then they can fire at the whole battlefield. In 15mm scale, nothing changes ruleswise but they are now shooting 140yards(ish). Sounds a bit more realistic for someone classed as a sniper.

    You also have to factor in time. In some games a turn might be a few seconds, in others a few minutes. If a model can get across the board and only gets shot at once or twice. In 28mm this might seem reasonable if they’re only sprinting 100yards. In 6mm that’s a third of a mile. Multiple models on a base could fix this, you might have only taken fire once but 24 guys(or however many are on 1 base) are gone.

    So, anyway, changing scale shouldn’t matter, you’ll still be playing the same game and everything will work out the way its meant to. But be careful not to go so far that the game feels unrealistic. Some games are designed to work for a certain scale/model count, while some can be expanded (or shrunk?) as much as you want.

    PS: My maths might be completely wrong:)

    PPS: I’ve painted several 6mm War of Spanish Succession armies as commissions. They are sooo boring to paint. Personally i prefer bigger scales.

    #1252290

    civilcourage
    9549xp
    Cult of Games Member

    I really like the look of smaller scales, they are MUCH simpler to paint i dont really know what i would use them for. Ideally bolt action or some such but i would need to convince some of my gaming group to give it a go first. Im also finding myself more drawn to napoleonics at this scale or even medieval becasue of the brighter colours which i find more appealing at 6mm. I find the introduction of camoflage at 6mm means you really cant get that ‘pop’ i like in my figures.

    I have been painting 28mm for a good number of year so i think i could do with a change but like you said @innes they dont leave a lot of room for the more artistic amongst us.

    Are there any rulesets easy enough to pick up like BA or SAGA which are designed for 6mm? Blackpowder is a good idea, something light and more beer and pretzels gaming.

    Do you think changing scale so much is an issue i.e. from 28mm to 6mm is too drastic and actually would work better at 15/20mm?

    #1252454

    torros
    19793xp
    Cult of Games Member

    What period do you want to play?

    #1255311

    civilcourage
    9549xp
    Cult of Games Member

    @torros i’ve been looking at napoleonic mainly but the dark ages are a possibility too.

    I’d like to play some WW2  but feel you wouldn’t get that pop of the model at 6mm with WW2 uniforms.

     

    #1255395

    torros
    19793xp
    Cult of Games Member

    For WW2 and modern its the tanks and vehicles that your going to see more on the table. Like all 6mm infantry you need to paint them a couple of shade brighter so they look OK from 3 feet away

    #1255559

    phaidknott
    4892xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Some of the 6mm painters can get amazing results (GHQ 6mm pricey, but worth it)

    http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/g541.html

     

    #1255561

    torros
    19793xp
    Cult of Games Member

    @phaidknott Agreed but the size of games I want to play in 6mm  I would use H&R . Their quality for the price can’t be beaten. If you wanted a middle ground  you coukd go with CinC  tanks and vehicles with Adler infantry

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