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Rumours of 4Ground ceasing trading.

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This topic contains 38 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  sundancer 3 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 9 posts - 31 through 39 (of 39 total)
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  • #1751320

    onlyonepinman
    17980xp
    Cult of Games Member
    #1751321

    sundancer
    42105xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Ah thanks. Well according to the last update on that KS (which was in 20209 4Ground only held 50% of it. So basically 4Ground going belly up isn’t the only reason why that KS isn’t running smoothly. Obviously it won’t help the process of getting things done.

    Shame :S

    #1751374

    phaidknott
    Participant
    6909xp

    No, the other company never got a look in. As far as we know they were promised a 50% share “if” they managed to deliver the miniatures for the Kickstarter. But other than the deal being struck 4Ground didn’t pursue matters further and send them things like masters for them to be able to produce said miniatures. So the other company had very little dealing with the KS (and no proportion of the blame can be placed upon them.

     

    Alas this KS fell victim of over promising on the pledges and although they probably had the right idea (3D printing the miniatures) they were probably a few years ahead of the technology (we now have larger bed printers and they are cheaper). They also went with a “custom” resin at apparently £200 a litre, which they then found out had “cured” in the bottles (so they lost a lot of money there). This along with the leasing of seven printers probably caused massive cost overruns (along with the wages of the staff needed to run the things).

     

    It’s a great pity we will not see the game come to light, the minis looked excellent and the game was looking good (from what we saw here on BoW). BUT I’ll add that many of use did get our pledge amount in MDF terrain from 4Ground (as I said it suffered from over promising), so any calls of “they ripped the backers off” is rather misleading. I think they did the best they could, it was an “experiment” of manufacturing with 3D prints at consumer levels at the time. To be frank I think they lost a LOT more than what we backers put forwards. As I said a great shame, and it was a very personal project for Ben and Cad and it probably soured the whole experience of the world they had designed over the years.

     

    There was a lot of negativity from a certain minority when the pledges didn’t come through (including an attempt at a “hostile takeover” of the kickstarter). But as a £400+ backer I feel they did their best (and I got about £400 at retail in 4Ground products) and although disappointed we’ll not see those excellent minis come to light can’t feel too much hostility for the kickstarter creators.

     

    If there was anything at fault during the process from 4Ground, it was the communication. It was “spotty” and a bit vague, but they were trying to adjust things on the fly and had a lot of hurdles crop up that no-one had expected. Alas even now they still not have confirmed the project as failed (although we all know it has).

    #1751539

    zorg
    18696xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Sounds like the other company’s landed on their feet nice new master’s an free rein to make the figures for customers who want them.?

    The resin going off is a supply problem that should have been replaced by them at no cost to 4ground or the KS backers.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  zorg.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  zorg.
    #1751542

    phaidknott
    Participant
    6909xp

    Nope, again the other company ONLY got the 50% share if they manufactured the minis on behalf of $Ground for the Backers. As 4Ground never went forwards with the deal beyond just putting it in place to enable the other company to produce the minis they didn’t get the 50% share (the other company hasn’t said exactly what happened beyond a brief mention that they didn’t receive any communication from 4Ground after the update Ben put in the KS comments about the agreement made). They never got any masters from 4Ground (and even if they did 4Ground/Trymeagain hold the IP for them so wouldn’t be able to produce them).

    So the minis are still with 4Ground/Trymeagain, “some” were produced as 3D prints but we don’t know how many and which ones exactly. Those that 4Ground have I suppose they are stuck with, as they can’t exactly sell them as they never sent any to the backers (beyond the four figures they sent out to Backers so they could see the quality of the prints (which were frankly amazing)).

    But all the reasons aside, it’s just a great shame that the game and the minis will never see the light of day

    #1751766

    jamescutts
    6685xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Down the the last few hours now as of writing.

    I did place one final order at the beginning of June for a few final bits I wanted to round out my collection for Blood & Plunder. Currently number 800+ in the production queue. Time will tell if it ever gets delivered I suppose, their claim is Tymeagain will continue to deliver any orders placed before they close, im cautiously optimistic but given the track record expecting the worst.

    It will be interesting to see what happens post closure, will the “4ground” brand come back again as it did last time or will it be a more permanent closure? Could the range live on under a new supplier?

    While 4gound seem to have lost their glory days, the most recent kits being overpriced and lacking in the wow factor I would be a great shame if the ranges didnt live on in one form or another.

    #1751779

    phaidknott
    Participant
    6909xp

    Well according to the last email/newsletter I got from 4Ground, it sounds like they have been selling off the rights to produce some of the kits to other people (no idea which companies are involved). So it sounds like 4Ground are getting out of the MDF business for good.

    Like you I found their recent kits rather lackluster in detail and quality (plus they were selling that pigment/paint stuff to lather over the kits to perhaps hide the lack of detail). But to be fair 4Ground were expensive because you got twice the amount of MDF compared to most other MDF kits (as they had internal detailing and used different coloured sheets in layers to get the desired effects (thinking off the Dark Age Hovels kits here mainly), while of late companies like Sarrissa seem to be using a “photocopy” technique to apply the detailing on multiple colours onto a single sheet.

    Were they impacted by the rise of 3D printing for terrain and building for Wargamers? I dunno, but I know a lot of companies who were doing things like Resin bases for minis (thinking of Fenris here) seem to have lost out.

    4Ground seem to have moved the business over to running a Wargames centre (where they charge attendees for their visit), so they are still involved in the hobby. But the money maker for Ben and Cad was always the Trymeagain side of the business (they sell wooden souvenirs like kid’s swords and shields at various national trust site’s gift shops etc), and it was mentioned they got hit (and hit hard) with the Covid shutdown of all the tourist sites around the country. 4Ground seemed to grow from Ben and Cad’s enthusiasm for the hobby (and their set up with the wooden toys aspect) and grew from there, but it was always a smaller part of the overall business.

    It looks like they had noticed a downturn in the MDF side of things and were trying to branch out, not only with the kickstarter, but with rules (like the “World War Zero” set). They also tried selling cheaper MDF kits (like the budget 40K tourney sets they did (which WERE uninspiring), and producing MDF kits designed by other designers (so it sounds like they had stopped designing their own kits). Now Ben did a lot of these initially, and has had some health concerns a few years ago. So perhaps that’s why the MDF kits didn’t have their old “flair” (as probably Ben was no longer the designer).

    But that’s about all I know from 4Ground and the Kickstarter (I’m not in direct contact with Ben and Cad), so anything I say is probably wrong (but I’ve done my best to try and follow things over the years as I was the Fabled Realms Backer).

    #1752076

    sundancer
    42105xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Spam bot alert!

    please review that users sayazop  posting history! It’s editing old post and injects links

    @tgu3 @nakchak

    #1774612

    sundancer
    42105xp
    Cult of Games Member

    Spam bot alert!

    please review that users sayazop  posting history! he’s inserting links into his old stuff

    @tgu3 @nakchak

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