Let’s Argue About Necrons a Bit More!
November 8, 2011 by darrell
November 8, 2011 by darrell
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I can’t see any video…
Oh, it’s just a discussion. Well, I think to Doom Scythe weapon is OP if you’re going by your rules. UP if going by alternate “only hits number of models the line touches” rule.
Nope there is a vid 😉
Delayed reaction!
OK, thanks, up now. Was confused.
Also, I agree with your view on the rules 100%. Being a Tau player I would hope to 1 hit this vehicle 1st turn anyway.
Now I will stop spamming comments.
My mum tells me its ok to be cocky! – until we’re FAQ’d 😉
Seriously bad bit of writing there though on the doom ray, and example would have cleared that up no end.
Video seems to be cut off at the end.
Justin is looking into this. We’ll replace the video once its fixed, in the mean time we can argue about the first half 😉
Thanks for sorting the video.
check out the spanish FAQ… or discussions on boards all over the place. Its bad english on the side of the writers, but its still far from as clear cut as you say.
Case is… its only the number of models under the line.
I was wrong before. The text definitely states the unit suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in that unit under the line.
Thus three models under the line, three hits. Bit of a bugger, but there’s no need to roll to hit, it’s S10 AP1 and I think, the key is in how flexible it is.
PS http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2010238a_Necrones_0.0_a_Noviembre_2011.pdf
That seems to clear it up. Babel fish says:
Ray of death. The third phrase replaces by: “Each unit (as much friend as enemy) that it is under this line, will undergo an equal number of impacts to the number of miniatures of this unit that is under the line.”
So it is just the number of models under the line.
Jeez maybe we should just put Babel fish between Mr Ward and the rest of Humanity. Shocking bit of writing 🙁
I got this with google translate.
Death Ray. Replace the third sentence: “Each
unit (both friendly and enemy) that it is under this line,
suffer a number of hits equal to the number of thumbnails
of the unit who are under the line. ”
Do necrons have thumbnails?
Personally of the opinion it hits the entire unit as the minimum length ray of 3″ would make it useless.
Miniaturas translates as miniature, miniatures, or thumbnails. This is a simple synonym error on google’s translation.
A very easy example for death ray:
The line goes over 3 units.
The line goes over 2 models of unit A, 3 models of unit B and 4 models of unit C.
Unit A takes 2 hits, Unit B takes 3 hits, Unit C takes 4 hits.
Totally get that but that’s not what the rule says. Now it may well turn out to be what was meant – heck even a babel fish translation of the spanish rules is clearer than the english version.
I don’t often ‘demand’ things, but i think GW owe the community an FAQ on this – to be honest i think they owe the community a decent level of service where codexes are publicly beta tested to get rid of silly things like this 😉
Why can’t GW and their, what, £20 codex or whatever, include some decent writing and clear rules? Why no examples and a few diagrams for our pleasure? Why did I have to spend £50 on a Warhammer Rulebook only for there to be numerous corrections in the months after its release. It’s sloppy. You really aren’t getting your £’s worth with this stuff. Didn’t they proof read this stuff? Why do I get the feeling these Codexes are sometimes the equivalent of an essay written by a uni student pulling a late nighter before the deadline?
@warzan I think that is what the rules say – could be wrong, but when the rules specifically say “…number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit under the line..”. If the sentence had stopped at the number of models in the unit then I’d heartily agree. At the moment though, appending the …”in the unit under the line…” implies the unit takes as many hits as there are models under the line, not number of models in the unit. It’s still a great weapon – think the War of the Worlds tripod blasters but it… Read more »
What really gets me going is if the rules are the way you say they are, why not just say every model under the line is hit? Why make a very simple thing so complicated? This is what makes me think there is more to this rule.
Because that’s how Jaws work, and they didn’t want this weapon to be able to snipe models.
Hence why a unit that is hit receives a number of hits equal to the number of models under the line. that way the player can allocate wounds.
Pardon me if someone already addressed this but the flux arc entry in the armory section of the book specifically states that it can fire to multiple targets… just saying… Gracias very much BoW for doing Necron week for us, you guys ROCK!
I disagree, I think the actual wording of the rules was poorly written. I think obviously, given the points cost as you say, it’s meant to do more than hit 3 or 4 models per shot, but the wording was poor. But the wording is confusing and an example should have been given in the text. It is stil unclear if each unit suffers a number of hits equal to the total number of all models in all units under the line; or if each unit just takes a number of hits equal to how many models there are in… Read more »
Warren, can you please give an example of what you think the rule works out as, as I’m reading the rule exactly as how my example is laid out. I honestly don’t know how people are reading the rule any differently?
You can apply logic, your reading suggests a modest weapon for something called ‘death ray’. The points cost suggests a far more powerful weapon. The wording is wrong, but you can infer the true meaning from the points cost.
poosh, the death ray does hit every UNIT in it’s line. And it does an amount of hits to a UNIT, as to how many models of that unit is underneath it’s line. Otherwise, if the line only hits 1 model of say a 30 strong UNIT of ork boys thats strung out across the board with a 2″ gap between each model, how would it be logical for the weapon to cause a hit on every single model even though alot of the squad is on the other side of the board? It is written as it is to… Read more »
Yes, the confusion over the writing is really due to people being less than careful applying the 40k rules. The way it is written conveys the intended meaning, however the word repetition makes it confusing. Part 1) Any unit with a model under the line suffers hits Part 2) The number of hits = the number of models in the unit under the line. Part 3) Roll to would Part 4)would allocation The wording is to distinguish it from Jaws type attacks that snipe specific models. This ship can still take out a rhino wall in 1 turn, or decimate… Read more »
The great bit though is blatting through a carnifex, trygon and a unit of tyranid warriors – the death ray is in the flexibility, not the weapon itself.
But yes, for a death ray I want to roll a 2+ and have every model in the army take forty hits at s20.
The wording is bad and this is why there is confusion and why it is hard to simply say you’re wrong. But the points cost being 175 points (?) is a good indicator as to the true intention of the rules.
it’s the same price as the doomsday ark… but is in a line rather then a large blast and has one more str can deep strike and a good tesla weapon… and is super fast…
i agree that 175 points is a good indication of what they intended… (i.e if it was your way there would be no point in the doomsday ark WHATSOEVER)
Let me see. THis isn’t a support or refute of the issue, but a clarification of the what the debate is on death ray. I used quotation marks to mark the phrase grouping that changes the meaning of the sentences subtly. Interpretation One: Every model (friendly or foe) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in “the unit underneath the line.” -Here, the interpretation is more straightforward. There are 10 models in that unit, so that unit takes 10 hits. -In this case, if the line hits Unit A with 10 models, Unit… Read more »
Might I add that both arguments are legit…so an FAQ is welcome. I’d LIKE to think it’s Interpretation One, but hey, we’ll never know.
the vid seemed to stop part way through you guys talking about necrotic strike or whatever its called
Yeah Justin is taking a look at it, Warren mentioned it above. 🙂
As for this Death Ray – this is the kinda discussion that will cause arguments at a gaming club unless GW do an FAQ and sort it out. Its a shame that as was pointed out, a £20 rulebook has something wrong with its writing style.
Shame…and yet I still like the idea of a Death Ray lol
I can’t seem to get the people arguing for the overpowered case… do we really want a gun that can decimate two 30 boy squads in a single shot in the game? That would be the end of hoarde armies. Be happy that this is actually something that wont be in the game… I’d much rather it was reasonable than another pointless cheesebomb. People complain about Mephiston and GK, but when they see something that seems too good to be true in a codex they like they jump on it (and complain about the others of course)… we could just… Read more »
Having had a quick look around the other GW sites the only updated Necron FAQ I could see was the one posted above. My guess from that was it was done in country so might not have the Nottingham stamp of approval. Remember as with most cheese this is taking things to extreme. If the definition of the line is the same as for jaws it will be the width of a tape measure on it’s side and only cover 3-18″. That’s not a lot of the board your going to be able to hit for the points you pay… Read more »
“Every Unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line.” So, if unit alpha has five models, it suffers five hits. If unit beta has eight models, it suffers eight hits. If unit gamma of six friendly Necrons is hit, it suffers six hits. It’s really quite simple but so badly written. “Every Unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line” the use of the statment underneath the line here in unison with the term unit means the unit that is hit. “suffers a number of… Read more »
Exactly as we read it… i think :S
My head is beginning to hurt!
This is what I think.
If I was playing Necrons, it would mean a number ot hits to match the total number of models in a unit.
If I was playing against necrons, it would be the number of hits to match the number of models under the line.
And thats why its a badly written mess whatever they intended.
what effect would the Tau Flechette discharger
attacks do to the scarabs.
But— But— I don’t LIKE Guiness! D:
Possible answers here: http://davidszondy.com/future/tesla/teslaray.htm
or maybe here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtzRAjW6KO0
🙂
Are orks immune to the ‘sucking off’ by a monolith as they use spores to reproduce? 😛
Lets just wait for an FAQ. I want to use in this my Necron force and for me, it sounds too good to be true and it best be!! lol
It’s clear the confusion comes from the last ‘underneath the line’. If the Death Ray does what you guys think (and hope) it does then wouldn’t it read: “…each unit underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit.” That’s pretty clear. The second ‘underneath the line’ just throws it into question. Does it refer to the models, or to the unit? If it’s the unit then it’s saying the same thing twice. If it’s the number of models then it’s what others seem to think, myself included. If this is the… Read more »
I’m going for the spanish FAQ for the deathray…
Replace the third sentence: “Each
unit (both friendly and enemy) that it is under this line,
suffer a number of hits equal to the number of thumbnails
of the unit who are under the line. “
Granted, by thumbnails, I assume it means models – that saved me a huge rage post, which I wouldn’t normally do, maybe the black rage is taking over – I can see visions of the primarch’s final battle…
I have a feeling the Death Ray will henceforth be called the “stop the game for a 2 hour argument ray”
It’s called the death ray because it makes you want to kill the player who uses the silly interpretation of the rules…
*IF* it did indeed read “Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models underneath the line” (as you said it would if it ment the only those under the line) it still wouldn’t make sense. That reading would mean if I hit 5 model from 3 different units with one shot, every unit would take 15 hits. The reason the word *unit* is written twice is so that we know to only apply the hits from model under the line to thier own units. It reads: “Every unit (friendly… Read more »
On scarabs, there’s no room for discussion on the rules, as they’re pretty clear – as you guys said the entropic strike works exactly as you described. Easily countered though – just bog the unit down or target it with instant death causing shizzle. No reanimation protocols for them.
To be fair Warren, this is not the first time GW has printed oddly written rules in their native tongue. It would also not be the first time that players gravitate toward a powerful ability only to have it FAQ’d down. The flap with the GK Dreadknight and Coteaz’ army comp rule being the last two in my mind. Doom of Malantai being the biggest in recent memory. Most of the people are comparing it to Blood Lance and Jaws of the World Wolf, which honestly seems reasonable given the nature of “Line hits X”. And while those have powerful… Read more »