Mass Battle Star Wars: Legion Coming To The Tabletop From FFG
August 18, 2017 by brennon
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...Fantasy Flight Games announced that they were going to fulfil a lot of dreams by bringing a battle game based around Star Wars to the tabletop. Welcome Star Wars: Legion.
The focus of the game is on skirmishes and mass battles from the Star Wars universe played out with miniatures that you build and paint yourselves. The core box is quite something and we got a hands on demo with the game earlier in the week.
Here are some of our thoughts...
The Miniatures
First off we wanted to talk with you guys about the miniatures that you get in the box. They stand at around 32mm in height, so a little taller than the ones that you get in Imperial Assault.
The miniatures themselves are similar to the ones you would have got in RuneWars. They can be slotted together/glued together and then painted yourself, but there's no reason to do that if you don't feel like it.
As you can see above the Rebels get themselves two squads as well as Luke Skywalker to lead them and a AT-RT acting as their heavier fire support on the tabletop.
The Empire get themselves a similar set up...
They get two squads of Storm Troopers at their command as well as Darth Vader and the 74-Z Speeder Bikes for a bit of mobile firepower.
The miniatures we looked at were well detailed and really looked the part. It was nice to see that there were so many different poses in the set and the Rebels had a few nice additions like female soldiers and an alien too.
As you can see some of the models have special weapons and that comes into play when you start buying upgrades for the units down the line.
You'll also get all sorts of widgets, tokens, cards and more in the box and some terrain pieces to use as cover for example.
The Game & Mechanics
The game itself is pretty fascinating and plays very quickly and simply on the tabletop. We only played through one round but it was exceptionally killy with units dying to shooting quickly if you're not careful with where you position them.
On your turn you will choose an activation card from your hand and this will dictate the number of units you can activate whenever you like, your initiative and any other special powers you choose to bring into play.
While everyone has access to a set number of basic activation cards there are also those that come from your heroes that lead your forces. In the taster we played Dawn and I used our Luke Skywalker card whilst Justin and Gianna played one that activated three units.
It's important to note that all of your units CAN activate during a turn but there difference is that the ones you choose using your card can be activated at any time. Your other units are shuffled up using tokens and you pick at random to see who you can use next - this simulates the fog of war a little on the tabletop.
Once a unit activates it can do two actions. This could be to move, attack or use a special ability for example. Typically your basic units don't have special abilities and these are tied more to your characters like Luke and Darth Vader.
Moving is done using a special set of measuring trinkets which will be familiar to those who have played Star Wars: Armada. You don't have to move everyone individually however either as you need only move your Leader for each unit and then place the rest of the models in coherency around him/her.
Shooting is also simple enough. You check the weapon profiles for each and take the corresponding dice. Much like with games like X-Wing you have hits, critical hits and then special symbols which may activate dependant on your unit and/or hero.
Hits are then blocked using coloured defence dice from the opponent and casualties are removed.
Units will then start to suffer morale as they get shot, and eventually as they take more and more they may be forced to flee the table. We didn't really follow this in too much detail during the demo but it looked like focusing fire could be very important.
Of course we had to get in a duel between Luke and Darth Vader and once again, this was pretty killy! Darth Vader is quite the monster in close combat as you'd imagine whilst Luke has a faithful blaster if he needs it.
More than anything though, the heroes felt like they were great supplementary figures for the rest of the force, allowing them to benefit from their activation cards and more.
Two of the other actions you can take are to Dodge and Aim. Aim allows you to re-roll any dice you want when shooting, whilst Dodge allows you to re-roll your defence dice - this can be critical as we found out when the poor Rebels got shot to hell by Stormtroopers!
Vehicles work slightly differently than infantry as they have arches of fire and plenty of weapon options. They actually simulated the speed of the Speeders for the Imperials quite well as they always have to move and can't stop still so with them it's very much about working out the right angles to approach at.
Upgrades & Beyond The Box
One thing you will have noticed is that all of the squads have special weapons in them. Using upgrade cards you can add these into the mix and the core box comes with a HUGE stack of cards for you to start playing around with to customise your force.
The game itself is said to scale really well, from skirmishing around with a few units to full on battles with 1000 point armies (oh yeah, that's the tournament level they're aiming for!).
It also plays out on 6' by 3' gaming spaces so they are anticipating that people are going to be expanding on their collections.
Talking of collections - yes, there is an "aggressive release schedule" for the game after its launch later this year. All of the original trilogy is going to be covered and, whilst they said that they can't specify more - we're thinking it's going to go beyond that towards the prequels and more.
Final Thoughts
From a brief look at the game this is effectively what many fans have wanted for years. Warren & Lloyd can finally play out a battle on Hoth or Endor without having to come up with the rules themselves!
We're looking forward to where this is going next and it was a joy to get in a sneaky look at this ahead of time here at Gen Con.
If you have any questions include them in the comments below and we'll try and answer them!
Are you excited for this new move from FFG?
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Oooohhhh!!!
I do like FFG, bit if the miniatures really are a bit larger than the ones in Imperial Assault then that’s a big fail on FFG’s part or else it is a rather disgraceful move.
Given that this is a licensed product perhaps Disney didn’t want them to be compatible ?
Perhaps, but both are sold by the same company. Anyway, it could be that I’m just being unfair to them. Let’s wait for it to come out and then we see what’s what
I’ve played plenty of games where the scale was inconsistent just within the range. I can’t see any issue using your IA minis with this.
Some of the the IA minis might be a little short for a Stormtrooper…
I haven’t seen any of the miniatures up close however I think that there’s a few things to be mindful of
Firstly if the miniatures stand at 32mm tall they’re a similar scale to Imperial Assault.
Secondly, not being compatible is only going to be an issue for anyone who already plays Imperial Assault.
Thirdly, you will only be able to use miniatures for which you have unit cards that presumably come with the miniatures themselves. So to use IA miniatures you would still have to buy some of the miniatures and the make a copy of the card (for your own use obviously).
You wouldn’t want to buy IA miniatures in the volumes you might need for a mass battle game. At ~£15 for 3 average quality models, that’s going to get expensive real quick.
I am expecting these minimum to weigh in at a similar price to Rune Wars and potentially similar unit sizes. So it could still prove to be quite expensive. However for myself I am probably going to give it a go because, you know, it’s star wars miniatures lol
I don’t think it’s so much people buying IA minis to use with this, as wanting to use the ones they already have. I’ve a couple of friends with a fair amount of IA minis and for them being able to use them in Legion would get them to play it, but they’re not going to invest in many of the same minis all over again.
Yeah, I get that. Just trying to cover all angles. It’s possible, although I don’t know how likely, that FFG might release just unit cards for IA models
If it is anything like Xwing then the community will be posting copies of stat cards anyway, because they’d want to know what.troops they need to buy to expand their own armies.
And that’s going to be difficult without a codex per army.
I also have rather a lot of IA miniatures and would love to be able to use them in Legion.
It’d be more of an issue with unique characters (rather than the main line troops) where I can imagine them charging a similar cost per model.
Possibly, that’s certainly the case with Rune Wars. However I generally don’t mind paying more for characters as long as the model is decent quality. Which is something I want to see of these miniatures – some decent close ups.
Agreed, just seems a strange business move to have two competing products in the same license. When you have a limited gaming budget what do you choose?
Anyway if you need cards to field the miniatures there’s no way you could use some minis from Imperial Assault here. This game is more about units, how many “units” you got in IA?? One? two? if you conider a “unit” the group of stormtroopers or some snowtroopers… and all of them are equal… not a deal… And anyway you will not have the rest of the things that you will need to field them…
This sounds awesome! I got a couple of Stormtroopers and an AT-ST Walker from Imperial Assault just for painting purposes. With this game, I might actually go all in!
Does it have all those cards and extraneous stuff you have to use in their games?
Basic play requires the stat cards and the dice. You can then add loads of card upgrades to the units and heroes to give them more abilities.
Ah well I only ever wanted it for the models if it was a smaller scale.and all those cards and stuff would really put me off. What ever happened to writing stuff on unit rosters
I’d expect a format similar to X-wing and Runewars.
ie : you get the figures + all of the cards that they need to function.
I do love FFGs games, but the cost combined with an “aggressive release schedule” worries me! Especially if they take the same approach to upgrades as X-Wing or Armada (neutral upgrades only appearing in specific packs, meaning you have to buy both factions stuff to get everything you need for one side).
This does look great though.
Hot dayyum!!
And I only bought Team Yankee the other day…
Oh well looks like I’ll be starting another system then! 😀
If they stand at 32mm tall they’re about on a par with the latest Imperial Assault releases. Obi-Wan Kenobi and agent Blaise are both ~35mm in height from base to top of head
Should work then as long as you can get the cards for the models etc.
Wait a minute … stormtroopers that actually manage to hit anything ?
That’s just wrong 😉
Surely on a six they’ve hit something… reroll sixes and if another six you’ve hit something close to the target… reroll sixes again and on a six you’ve hit your target!
The Inaccuracy of Stormtroopers is a myth…
“And these blast points, too accurate for Sand People, only Stormtroopers are so precise”
– Obi Wan Kenobi
“they let us go, it’s the only explanation for the ease of our escape”
– Princess Leia
Dun Dun Duuuuuuuh The Stormtroopers missed because they were letting the heroes escape…
@onlyonepinman
Agreed.
I would even claim that there was no way Empire could had kept Galaxy about 20 years under they rule with fleet alone if Stormtroopers were as incompetent as people claim them to be based on movies.
Also, if they genuinely are crap at shooting then they are also, statistically speaking, implausibly unlucky. The number of shots fired from the massed ranks of Stormtroopers should have fluked at least one hit! An army that is both incompetent AND unlucky somehow managed to conquer the whole galaxy?
Also, if we need more evidence, the Stormtroopers that breached the Tantive IV at the start of A New Hope made short work of the crew. They didn’t seem particularly inaccurate…
pure numbers game. Throw enough at them and you win … its not like the higher ups loved them or anything.
Far from. These Stormtroopers were well above the average rebel or terrorist. They are hardened well trained shock troops.
We just follow the ‘heroes’ and those get plot armor.
But judging by their performance when chasing Han Solo and Luke around the Death Star, they didn’t even manage that. There was hundreds of them and somehow they all missed. They’re implausibly unlucky!
They were terrible in Rogue One. Couldn’t figure out they’d taken control of the galaxy with an army that resembled the Keystone Cops. Mooks, eh….
Now we need the terrain! Who is going to make the desert houses, bunkers, and other buildings for the universe. We might be able to use some of the infinity terrain.
This is going to be awesome!
I second that – would love to see the BoW crew do some terrain tutorials for other scatter terrain that is Star Wars specific (Tatooine and Endor, like the FFG display boards would be good).
Infinity terrain ( and suitable mat ) would make an excellent Coruscant themed table.
I’m confused about all the scale talk. Imperial Assault miniatures are already as tall or taller than Space Marines, so at least in the 32mm range. They got people on the FFG forum claiming it will be 34mm which is not an actual scale they would use and makes no sense.
It’s not as if putting a height on the minis is a hard and fast rule to begin with. It usually tends to be a rough guilde. I’ve heard that there is a noticeable difference when a IA Stormtrooper is placed next to a Legion Stormtrooper, but as long as you don’t mix them in the same unit I can’t see it being an issue.
“Miniature Scales” are often meaningless because of the different ways of measuring them and the way in which pose can affect them. Some people measure scale as base of foot to top of head, other people measure it as base of foot to eye level.
And because scales aren’t really very accurate, for the sake of 1mm, I think the closest comparison would really be 35mm – so similar in scale to Wild West Exodus. It’s hard to tell from the pictures I have seen but I think they’re going to be sized somewhere between the 40k and Wild West Exodus ranges.
As a Star Wars nut I am so looking forward to this. Just to be able to field loads of Stormtroopers against Rebel Scum is so awesome.
Sweet lord thank you!!!!
Oh my gods….All my Star Wars nerd dreams have come to life 😀 . I’m so in for this.
Take it all man just take it all…… no 40k for me this is now the rest of my life ha ha
I got Game of Thrones and Star Wars coming next year. I will not need any Sci Fi or Fantasy fixes.
Release needs to be aggressive. I think they really hurt themselves with the RuneWars schedule. Good rally goes back to something they are better equipped for (2 factions only)
Play as the Imperials, put the Imperial March on at full blast, and glory in the untrammelled nerd-itude of it all. This is the stuff geek dreams are made of.
Whelp, looks like the tubs of WOTC Star Wars minis are going to get rolled out to provide a bit of depth to the Rebels & Imperials….
Looks awesome but given that I have little interest in playing the terrorists… may be difficult to get players.
Not a problem for me. I’ll gladly take and play the Rebellion, my friends can take the Imperials all day long 😀 .
If there is a Bootcamp, save me a space that’s all I’ve got to say.
BoW should so have a Bootcamp, that would be all kinds of awesome 😀 .
Get FFG to throw in an early copy of the game in your community prize bag!
I will take a ticket to a bootcamp!
The Minis dont look good. Looks like something Mantic would do.
Leaves me cold as does Star Wars as whole when it comes to boardgames, RPGS and all things tabletop in general.
In person, the minis do look nice. They are crisp and details are nice.
Yep, my Star Wars Crazy mate just sent me an email querying whether I thought he would get this – I didn’t think so because he already has everything from the X-Wing, Imperial Assault, and Armada franchises, several star wars Cosplay outfits, custom nerf guns, and every known Star Wars memorabilia and animated / film release ever, But of course I could be wrong…
Very curious to see how the vehicles are going to work out. Seems like a 15mm “person scale” would have been nicer to be able to have a wider variety of larger vehicles. At 34mm an AT-AT is way too big to get on the tables.
Being in 28mm hasn’t stopped 40K from having it’s fair share of large vehicles.
And WOT made a perfectly acceptable AT-AT for their 28mm pre-painted Star wars miniatures game, as well as a vast swaft of smaller vehicles and monsters so they have options…
Pefectly aceptable?? hmmmm If you are a scale freak, nope. It was way too small.
As does Bolt-action …
However that doesn’t stop vehicles from feeling wrong at this scale, especially the really big ones like the AT-AT.
OTOH … the smaller vehicles like the two legged walkers in the movies would kind of fit.
People slap Titans on 40k Tables and 4 foot buildings down for Batman games – I know what you are saying 🙂 but it won’t change the fact people will buy them – maybe not me – but people – them – those people… 😀
Don’t. Care. Yeah, I know you’re right but still. It’s an AT AT!
A scale possible:
Star Wars needs AT ATs and AT STs and every other letter combination. But yeah… makes you think 15mm might have been more sensible.
The sales of Epic compared to 40K suggest this was the right choice.
Perhaps, but the scale was not to blame in Epic 40k’s case, but rather the rules, which simply were not what people wanted, and that showed, as pretty much most people just continued playing titan legions at the time. The problem with that was that the models also got a huge price increase right after epic 40k’s launch and titan legions used larger armies. Then GW stopped supporting the game (within 6 months) and that was that
I was picking out an example, but the overwhelming evidence is that 28-32mm wargames sell much better than smaller scale wargames. If you go 20mm or below with a wargame then you’re selling to a niche (within a niche).
@rastamann – I think @redben is right in that 6mm was never as – and was never going to become as popular as – 28mm.
That said, I think you’re right in that GW shot Epic in the back by releasing a set of rules that didn’t appeal (although I gather it was actually quite good) and by ramping up the prices in a quite astonishing way. (From memory it was like they changed from putting 5 sprues in a box to 1 sprue – crazy.)
Epic was never likely to compete with 40K in terms of sales, but it could have remained a successful product line. It wasn’t the only one I think GW mismanaged out of existence. Warmaster also comes to mind…
I’m looking forward to the re-release of Epic later this year / next year, even if the scale is jumping to 8mm as rumoured.
15mm is why I didn’t buy into Halo Ground combat. I don’t really want to bother with all the massive vehicles, what I really wanted were 28mm Spartans and Covenant Hunters etc. Warthogs and some of the tanks would still have been achievable at 28mm.
GW never wanted Warmaster in the first place. That was Rick’s baby. And the reason they never wanted it is because they knew it was a niche product, even if they pushed it.
I think when you’re making a wargame you have to tailor the scale to the most iconic elements of the system. Star Wars’ most “iconic” element would, without doubt, be the characters so when FFG decided to go ahead with the Star Wars miniatures game chances are the approach was “how can we make the best Darth Vader”. Answer? 28mm Heroic/32mm. Especially considering that the next most iconic thing about Star Wars is probably the space ships, which have their own games already.
When you make your own world up, something like Dropzone Commander, you can drive what the most iconic parts are yourself and that’s why I think DZC has been successful despite being at a fairly niche scale. It was designed from the beginning to be about the vehicles and the dropships. Similarly Mechwarrior/Battletech plays the same game – make the story about the robots and vehicles and not the people and you can make a success of a smaller scale.
It’s not a co-incidence that the main focus of the game at any scale is usually roughly the same size. A Mech in Battletech is about the same size as a 28mm figure. The larger dropships in DZC are also a similar size to a 28mm figure.
There’s basically two reasons you go 20mm or lower. Either you want really large battles, which is why historical wargaming often goes down to the these scales, or you want really large models, which is more often why fantasy games go down this rout. As @onlyonepinman rightly says, this often means that whilst the minis are in a smaller scale, their actual size is more in line with poser’s scale.
Whilst Hawk have been successful with smaller scale vehicle battles, that should be seen in the context of the size of company that Hawk are. FFG’s Star Wars games need to sell to a different order of magnitude. X-Wing, and to a lesser degree Armada, have done that, and succeed in part because whilst the scale is small, the minis are big. They also succeed because they are pre-paints, and the game requires no terrain, making them very accessible games. X-Wing more so; see the earlier point about it selling better than Armada.
As a ground-based hobby game, SWL has challenges those games don’t have. FFG also want to maximise their revenue on it (else why bother with the eye-watering license fee to be able to do a SW minis game). This means if it’s going to small scale to get big vehicles in, and become a ground version of X-Wing, it needs to pre-paints and require no terrain. The latter of which doesn’t work as well for ground battles as space battles. If it’s going to feature infantry, be a hobby game, and have broad appeal, it needs to be 28mm+
Should I just hand my wallet over now?
Yes you should….preferably to me so I can then go buy two sets for myself :p
I’ve been waiting for a game to come out like this for years. Me and my friends will hopefully be able to go beyond playing Imperial Assault and playout grander scale games with the miniatures to decide the fate of the galaxy on a gaming table far, far away ……
IMHO, they always wanted a skirmish game with IA and after the split with GW they are all in with this game. I can’t wait.
Well that’s my bank account buggered….
In such a star wars mood as of late. Just finished listening to the “Dark Disciple” audio book today and starting a SW RPG later this year! Good to see a new source for mini’s!
That and the news about the new Kenobi film everywhere. I really hope they bring back Ewan McGregor to play Obi-wan and do something about the 19-odd years he spent on Tatooine. Ewan is the perfect age for it now, and by far my favourite character in the prequels. I know it’s “Legends” now, but the Kenobi novel set during that time was pretty great.
You mention 1000pts being a full scale battle but how many figures is that? 20? 200? ,5000?.How many points is a squad of stormtroopers for example so people have some idea what size of armies were talking about
A squad of Rebels works out at 48 Points, and that was around 7 models in a squad. I can’t remember the points cost of the other units/vehicles etc @torros but that might give you an idea.
Vader is 200pts. Luke is 160pts.
Squad of Stormtrooper is 44pts. Speederbike unit is 90pts. AT-RT is 55pts.
AT-RT laser cannon is 35pts.
Best guess is the core box armies are about 400pts each.
I think it’s fair to say there’s going to be plenty of vehicles as well otherwise trying to make up 600 extra points of Stormtroopers is going to be tedious and probably costly lol. If I were a betting man (and I am not) I would say that on top of what you get in the box, you will be looking at buying an additional character maybe two or three new squads and either two medium (AT-ST) sizes or one large (AT-AT) sized vehicle.
Heard rumour a couple of days ago and was fairly non-plussed, but it is a very cool box. My concern would be release schedule, I think Runewars shows FFG don’t quite get the tabletop gaming releases etc in my opinion.
Yeah. They seem to be very slow with their releases amd it’s not just Runewars. Imperial Assault is probably the worst offender but even X-Wing is slow compared to someone like GW. They need to make sure they have stuff coming out every month
If players already have army sized IA forces they could just use those as I imagine the rules will be free downloadable and they broke Armada down, and for those who get multiple starter sets will sell the cards off in secondary markets.
probably heresy but I at first thought this was going to be prepainted like X-Wing and I would have liked that as a pickup and play with my kids and add forces through pocket money. Unlikely to pick this up as the back log of unpainted stuff does not need to get any bigger.
Could always treat them like dust miniatures and assemble, prime, and varnish them and treat them more as board game tokens. Seems that will be my go to while working on my own game.
If I decide to pick up SW: Legion that is. The rules seem… Disturbing… They feel not thought out for actual play. And given the lack of talk about this besg the question on how well it has been playtested. After all we all know what happened last time they didn’t beta test a game.
Anyone else note cad bane race is a reb commando. Just saying
Yup, sure did 😀 .
Not planning on having backwards compatibility with Imperial Assault minis strikes me as not quite as savvy as I would expect from FFG. Saying the new minis are awesome you wouldn’t want to use Imperial Assault minis is nice and all, but what about all the customers who already did buy Imperial Assault minis and it’s too late to go back now?
That depends. If you consider that FFG need people to buy the models for this, just like GW need people to buy models for 40k and AoS, in order for the game to keep going. If FFG made it scale compatible with IA and then release rules for all the current IA miniatures, wher’s my incentive, as someone who has a lot of IA models, certainly enough to make a few squads of Stormtroopers and Rebel troops as well as a selection of vehicles, to buy more miniatures for this game?
Also, from a purely hobby perspective, the slightly larger scale appeals to me greatly because I enjoy painting soldiers.
I feel like that’s the wishful way to make money, that doesn’t ever actually work in real life. I saw the same discussion with A Song of Ice and Fire, where people suggested they couldn’t provide much value in the Kickstarter because they wanted you to go buy that stuff in the retail store, and then other people noted what actually was going to happen was, not only were they not going to buy stuff at the retail store, they weren’t going to buy the Kickstarter. So I can’t understand that business strategy. Though I do believe IA was going through scale creep anyway, and that FFG simply realized larger, more heroic scale models looked better, more than they were trying to make them incompatible. But they would turn off 90% of the audience, costing them tremendous numbers in sales.
It’s hardly wishful thinking, it’s exactly how GW work with 40k/AoS and how FFG work with X-Wing. A game will only continue to receive support in the form of miniatures and rules updates for as long as the game is making the maker money. In order to do that they have to sell models. So making a game that everyone can use with a load of miniatures they already have is a sure way to make a game that’s going to fail
The big question is – do you have to roll dice for the stormtroopers to miss their targets or do they miss automatically?
My preference would have been a smaller scale, but still very excited about this one.
Would be a must buy if the minis fit in with the rest of my sci fi collection, sadly looks like they will be too big 🙁
xmas present so my budget will suffer, i need that!
There are a few vids appearing on the net.
First from FFG – a teaser trailer with more detailed looks of the minis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hNV5sSNM5M
And I was doing so well with not buying miniatures this year.
I’m in.
Next, Sorastro has started a new series of painting guides, using mainly GW paints.
Playlist can be found here – https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6xOeNhrVj9vfxBrv5_3q2Dtw9uZTbBli
Only 1 episode so far – Luke Skywalker – but there will be more.
It gives a really up close look at the model.
This is quite literally the game I’ve been waiting on for years.
I’ve been considering getting into a few of the other current games now for a while like Saga, Infinity and 40K but have held off. Just as well as i think I just found my niche.
TAKE MY GODDAM MONEY!!!
Another major hit to the wallet coming!
All I want is clones…if they made a clone army it is over
Hmmm… not my kind of game.
Looks like the “Clone” Wars…
West End Games published a Star Wars miniature game years ago. Still have the rulebook and companion. Like FFG’s game, It was also a spin-off game – in West End’s case from their roleplaying system. Apparently you could even use AT-ATs by re-purposing the model kits from the time.
There’s something wrong about a wargame system with only two factions, though. Although I’m sure they will introduce a Scum and Villany faction. Will wait and see what reviewers say.
@rfernandz2001 – I know what you mean, but it depends how they do it. There are plenty of American Civil War gamers and there were only two sides in that conflict. In fact, a lot of historical wars only had two main combatants.
I know that expectations for SF and fantasy games are a bit different, but one the ranges for this game get large enough, I would have thought it would allow them to create sub-factions to reward thematic armies and create more variation in tournaments.
Thing is they can easily add the Republic and CIS forces, plus as suggested a Scum faction and a Wookie force (as seen in the movies)
There might only be two factions however there’s plenty of different species in the universe. Rebel Alliance and Scum and Villainy could very easily be sub-factioned. Also, subject to Disney licensing there’s no reason why there can’t be remnants of the Droid armies from clone wars era
I must have had a brain fart. Completely forgot about the American Civil War. Plus X-Wing seems to be doing just fine. Thanks for the correction.
Looks like FFG’s plan to bleed me dry financially is now complete.
Oh my, now I have to learn how to paint proper white armor
Anyone seen photos of how posable the minis are and if they come on a sprue or loose?
The only example I’ve seen so far is the Luke Skywalker paint guide which starts with a fresh of the sprue Luke and goes through assembly to finish paint job. One thing I noted is the bases need to be stuck on so could use different bases easily enough. Assume that will be the same with the rest of the range.
Awesome! But are they going to have enough armies to make it a great wargame???
You can see the mini much better
Sorastro’s Painting – Star Wars Legion Painting Guide Ep.1: Luke Skywalker
https://youtu.be/1OVnCFq1j04
That looks dangerously good. Dangerous for my bank account that is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZj9Hxf4o5Y
Demo Game…..
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Wonderwolf on Dakkadakka posted this comparison between the new luke from this and the IA luke, so the sizes are different enough to bother those who don’t like mixing scales
Will this be yet another box full of card with a few mini’s thrown in like their other games? And has Vader been nerfed? Hardly a fair fight in this box if not.
Wow. The IA model looks way better…
I think I’m going to come out and defend FFG for making the miniatures a slightly different scale to IA. Speaking as someone who has invested quite heavily un IA (I literally have pretty much everything currently available for it) and who is currently painting the models, I can honestly say that the slightly larger scale will be more appealing to miniatures collectors. The Imperial Assault models are alright but they can suffer a little when it comes to fine detail like faces. They’re much harder to paint than say 40k miniatures. So yeah, it’s a bit of a pain that all the IA models will look a bit out of scale (and it is only a bit) with the Legion miniatures however I will happily take that hit for a higher quality miniature. Hopefully they have learned their lessons from Rune Wars and this time they will be competing on the quality of the models.
I think it’s also fair to say that any miniatures game depends on people making purchases if the business wants to continue to support it. The last thing FFG want is a load of people buying just the core rules and then not buying any miniatures because they everything they need from FFG.
FFG have taken that risk by going the way they have, compatibility with IA is going to be an issue with the sale of this game. You can defend them if you wish but for established players of IA this is an elephant in the room. And tbh you don’t need to defend them thats FFG to do and if they haven’t allowed for this early doors response then they have an idiot in there ranks who needs his ass fired out the door fast.
As you say there are pros and cons to releasing the scale they have, and without an existing range there already selling would have had a more take it or leave it based on scale etc.
Even if SWL does well IA may suffer or it maybe the way you’ve described with core sales for the system than meh on anything else.
It will depend on how many non-IA players take up Legion that determines the success of this range but I think they’ve stumbled coming out the gate with this one. Were not talking about the model range that may be getting released, or the rules or play-ability, majority of comments are about how this links with IA or not.
I am an established player of IA – I have pretty much every single expansion, ally and villain pack (multiples in some cases) – and it really doesn’t bother me; it won’t stop me getting SWL.
Also, I don’t know how well IA sells compared to 40k but I suspect it pales in comparison. I think this game is something FFG are going to want to compete with GW on so it doesn’t really surprise me that they didn’t consider using the same scale as IA. I don’t think they were considering the IA audience as a necessary basis on which to build the audience for Legion. However I think that stealing some of the 40k audience is definitely what they want to do and using a very similar model scale isn’t a bad plan
IA was a compromise product (from both the board and mini-gaming ends). SWL is the unfettered minis game they can now do. I wouldn’t go and compete with 40K with the IA minis. They’re fine for a boardgame but well short of where they need to be for a minis game. As long as FFG don’t rule that IA minis aren’t tournament legal, and they make it possible to get the cards, I see no issue with the SWL minis being better quality and a bit bigger.
IA sold strongly on the release of the original core box, but there’s no comparison with 40K (or X-Wing for that matter).
doh! take my money now…….
This will be big. FFG. Star Wars. Massed battles.
Can’t help but be a little bit disappointed by those models though. Anyone else? The poses look a bit goofy. And the repetition is hard to miss.
I want an army of Ewoks and I’m not even kidding. I want them. No one can stop me. I will have them.
STAR WARS legions. honestly I don’t know where to start. so many things racing around my head right now.
I love STAR WARS and i’m in the wanted to see this happen for a while group.
i’m super excited they have finally played their hand. this was their ace and to play it straight after 8th edition drops, intentionally or not, is going to be really interesting.
the gameplay sound really interesting. generally not a big fan of random activation, but the ability to have some measure of control in both core mechanic and no doubt card influence could be a stroke of genius. it could add some very interesting depth to the gameplay.
Armada was written off the back of lessons learned from x-wing and I fully expect similar strides to be made here given the fella has worked on them all.
really excited to see the game being played.
the miniatures. as some know i’m a high end miniatures kind of guy. and while I never really expected FFG to go that way I have a long standing wish for them to do boutique miniatures for their games. just as an option for the collectors and painters out there, i’m sure you’d sell a boat load.
that being said these being multipart and a little bigger does give them plenty of scope to show what they can do with their plastics. the jury’s still out at the miniute, I just haven’t made my mind up yet and because it’s STAR WARS I want to be sure before I speak.
when all is said and done it’s STAR WARS and I love the franchise like no other.
but pretty please FFG boutique collectors miniatures with art cards and fancy packing and i’d never paint a miniature that wasn’t yours every again.
I’d guess that the new style miniatures are specifically designed to appeal to hobbyists who appreciated multipart plastic models such as those produced by GW. They’re specifically targeting a market. A slightly larger, more heroic scale ( ref the Luke Skywalker mini comparison pic: the New Luke has a larger proportion head to his body, Old Luke is fairly “true” IMO)
The single piece IA minis remain for those hobbyists that aren’t into multipart plastics. FFG won’t rule out either miniatures to be used in either product, so for the purposes of tournaments etc, either may be legit.
I don’t wish to paint with too broad a stroak, but I suspect that Most of the hurt regarding the difference will be expressed by those who really fall into the first group, but bought IA for the only currently produced miniatures for the SW universe that were available
I love IA for the game and the miniatures – I love dungeon crawlers and I love star wars so it was a real no brainer for me. And because Star Wars is sooo popular in my house (with me being the main proponent of that) this game is definitely something I have been looking forward to and I absolutely am not in any way butt hurt about this. The exact opposite in fact, I am really excited. I will definitely be getting the core box and if it’s good and the miniatures are good I can me getting into this every bit as much as I did IA.
Sorastro is now working with FFG and the first video is out for Luke he’s 35mm in the comments there’s a comparison picture to IA Luke and the difference is massive.
https://youtu.be/1OVnCFq1j04
I’m really pleased for the guy, the FFG deal must be a massive boost for him. And well deserved too, his videos are right up there with GWs painting videos.
It’s like a thousand wallets cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something awesome has happened.
No Effect Fear 😉
love the figures.
Don’t see the point. I just think there are so many more interesting mini games out there, with so many different factions each … that this is not in my wheel house. Even being a big star wars fan .. There is just only so much a flgs can support, and I’m feeling the over saturation of SW stuff.
For epicness … I’ll play the Rebellion board game. Now THAT’s fun 😀
If they were smart they would unify the games. Make the Legion minis usable in place of Imperial Assault and IA in Legion. And update IA into Legion and slowly phase out the IA line to be a variant game mode of Legion.
If they were smart the games would already be unified with the minis being an easy match in and out at same scale. FFG have really dropped a ball imo on this one, yes gamers can fudge things around but we shouldn’t have to be already thinking how we can.
I really hope these are prototype demo minis and the actual size is IA, FFG are definately putting a barrier for people considering buyin. Especially considering some people are already disappointed its not a FoW scale.
IA has been having Scale Creep for a while. And who knows what they will do by the time Legion is released. The issue with FoW Scale is Halo, Dropzone, and such are all Niche products in a Niche Market.
There is nothing saying that if Legion Succeeds and they can get better experience with the actual hobby side of the industry then we might see them make a 20 or 15mm scale game.
I guarantee you they’re not demo miniatures. They’re aiming for a slice of the 40k/Warmachine market and they have scaled it accordingly. The IA market is not the foundation upon which FFG will be trying to build the new game. The best you can expect is that maybe at some point in the future they release SWL cards for some of the IA models – I wouldn’t bank on though. And one thing is absolutely certain, they won’t do that until SWL has proven to be a success. FFG want to sell you more star wars models. They don’t want you to buy just one box and then play with a load of other toys
General Games have a chat with the lead designer for Legion up…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5joF4KrVLw
I’m super excited about this game. Watched the demo and it looks realy fun. The movement system looks very good with the templete which i didnt think would work in a skirmish game. I have quite abit of imperial assault so im abit bummed i cant use any of it for leigon but will def be getting into this
Luckily I haven’t invested too much in IA, and won’t invest in it further, will look on places like eBay just to buy cards and board sections, and replace the current miniatures with stuff produces for this, but before I invest at all, i’ll wait until there’s a lot more variety. In armies and characters.
I was planning that as well buy… Probably should at least buy the starter to show support. People waiting is part of why games start to die.
Waiting for a army that appeals to you in a game like Beyond the Gates of Antares is one thing. In this case picking up a Core Set at least shows that we are interested in the game.
Are these prepainted minis?
No, the mini’s will not be pre-paints.
Ok, better that way then.
1st let me state I am not now nor have ever been a keen game player , so all that game talk about rules etc means zip to me . It’s been over a year since my last game of X Wing . But these figures appeal to me as a modeller . Multi part figures are great for conversions . I’ve got loads of kit bashed unique figures by combining box sets of BA plastics for my WW2 figures and tanks ( I got 40 tanks and don’t play BA ! ) I’m thinking more diorama type scenes . And scale creep isn’t really a issue with me as Warlord has a variety of sizes in their line , old metals , new metal sculpts , even their early plastics are smaller than their newer stuff . I’m just hoping that the add on figure sets released after the core box won’t be too pricey , ie : GW $
Talk about a misleading title, this is a skirmish game and no different to Imperial Assault, also uses jointed move sticks, why? Just because they can I guess :/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZj9Hxf4o5Y
Most games start as Skirmish Games then progress to larger games. Makes it easy for them to get new players if you can start with only a couple of squads instead of 500$ worth of miniatures.
And I think the move sticks and custom dice are more because it is their thing. The big thing is their squad movement actually makes the game move a bit faster. It is a surprisingly scalable game given the simplicity of the games mechanics.
It depends on your definition of a skirmish game. If you think Warmachine, 40K, or SAGA are skirmish games (and I do) then this is. If you think that’s too many models and skirmish games are Infinity, Guild Ball, and Malifaux, then this isn’t.
I consider the average, 75 point, Warmachine to be aa skirmish based game.
The thing is. SWL average infantry cost is 50-100 points when maxed out and characters/commanders being up to 250 points. The average game size is geared towards 1000 points. Sounds like Antares is closer to a skirmish game than SWL is intended to be when it reaches its initial goals.
Though I would say at their standard points values… Warmahordes, SAGA, Infinity The Game, Guild Ball, Malifaux, and the like are Skirmish Games. 40K and the like are less so.
Ignoring the potentially duplicitous word “skirmish” for a moment. It looks as though a 1000 point game is potentially going to require about the same number of models as 40k. So I guess it’s irrelevant whether you call it skirmish, mass battle or playground scuffle. You know the model counts involved
800pts does seem to be full size as the designer has mentioned that in interview’s. So I think the games will be smaller than 40K games.
I meant a 1000 point 40k game. Of course, 40k is aimed more at the 1500-2000 points mark
@onlyonepinman If I recall correctly you’ve been getting drawn into 40k recently, are you going to drop that to play this game, or you’ve time and resources for both games? As its going to be interesting seeing how established 40K players may take to this.
I’m not sure yet but this could drag me out of 40k. To be fair, where GW are concerned I have always been much more interested in the fantasy side of things, I would say I am more of a 40k dabbler than established player. In terms of time I am much more interested in smaller scale games and so Necromunda might scratch my 40k itch or maybe Shadow Wars leaving my 40k involvement limited. However I will definitely be giving the basic Star Wars game a whirl and we shall see how it goes from there.
What I will say though is that my hobby is building the armies. So I have one 40k army project on the go, I have a definite end point for it and once it’s done it’s done. I won’t necessarily swap to a new 40k army
So far I have resisted Star Wars IP miniature games, really the only on that interests me is X-Wing, but I admit if I started buying X-Wing mistakes would be made. The problem with the Star Wars IP, in my eyes, when translating it to a miniatures games is that there are only 2 sides generally. FFG managed to make the Scum & Villainy faction for X-Wing but would there be enough in the new canon to make a Scum & Villainy faction for a new game (or are they still going to use Legends stuff)?
To add some clarity:
There are two sides per era:
Clone Wars (episodes 1-3) you have Galactic Republic vs. Separatists.
Rebellion Era (episodes 4-6) you have Galactic Empire vs. Rebellion.
Resistance Era (episodes 7-9) you have First Order vs. Resistance.*
Those would be the canon eras.
Besides those you have the KOTOR and TOR eras (from video games) both of which would be Galactic (Old) Republic vs. The Sith Empire. And the only era to really break with this duality tradition is the Legacy Era where you have The New Republic (reduced to a fleet so essentially the Rebellion), the Hutts, The Empire and The Sith Empire. And the Legacy Era is very much legends.
* I know episodes 8 and 9 have not been released yet (as of this writing) but I can see Disney moving away from the kid-friendly dualistic formula of good vs. bad.
The core box rulebook lists two sides. Not that later expansions couldn’t add to that. Two sides is a bit of an issue, but the way you get around that is having lots of variant builds within a faction.
Variant builds that are competitiively viable, I should add.
That is doable. A kind of Sectorial Army arrangement. Though it might be cool if they have the commander influence their army. Like one commander automatically gives a unit an Activation while another when activated can activate one other unit around them. Or a unit gives units within range 1 of them a special ability or a type of surge they might not normally have. Say a Rebel Commander who grants an Offensive Surge to rebel troopers if they don’t have one.
Doesn’t even need to be sectoral. Different commanders offering different abilities would be a great way to add variety.
To your own, yes, but if the game only has two factions then you need a lot more variety than that so you can play against different armies. I wouldn’t to always be playing Stormtrooper v Stormtrooper armies, even with variable commanders.
To be honest, that’s why I think they may need to look backwards to some of the Clone War era stuff, perhaps forward to the Force Awakens films and possibly into some of the expanded universe (Mandalorians for example).
Late to the discussion, but I’m super excited about this! But I have mixed feelings as well.
It means yet another mass battle game, yet more minis to paint, more stuff to buy.. And more stormtroopers to paint? I’m not even done with the ten I have from Imperial Assault!
But it is Star Wars, it is life!
I’m wondering how much variety they will be able to put into the forces though, especially for the Imperials. Will they go into the various special troops we see outside of the movies, or stick to the white armor and variations in weapons only? I also feel that the Stormtrooper poses are a bit static..
I’m happy that they have an agressive release schedule planned, because I think the starter set might get old rather quick, and add-ons are needed.
I also hope they will be releasing terrain to go with this, like the crates and defensive positions they’ve show in pictures. Maybe even an Endor-bunker?
That being said, I really want to create an Endor-table!
What is fantastic is that they have commissioned Sorastro to make painting videos for all the units in the starter-set. He has already released the first one: Luke. And the miniature looks great!
In terms of variety of models, if you follow what they have done for Imperial Assault alone, you will see there is a great deal that can be done.
In terms what is canon now, we still have a ton of options for Imperials from Stormtrooper, Snowtroopers, Shore Troopers, Death Troopers, Sand Troopers (plus on Dewbacks), Scouts (on foot as well as bikes), Royal Guard, Imperial Officers and so on and so on.
The Star Wars universe is now very diverse, thanks to not just the movies, but shows like Rebels, plus recent comics all being part of canon, and bringing in a lot of new stuff.
FFG can keep working for this for years just off the Galactic Civil war era, before we even consider the likes of Episodes 7-9.
Got to say and this may be a shock, but not my cup of tea and I shall be passing.
I think it looks well done and I wish them all the good things, but not really rocked by it.
The figures being any size they want would not even make me want to go there. Would it be better if I had seen the later films. Only kidding on the films front, I can see it being a large money cow even with none gamers, I am sorry is there any mention of cost anywhere its been a while since I have been on here and it would take a while to back log everything.
Oh and Hi folks, looks like the fish tasted too good after all.
They have mentioned 25 Euros (or maybe dollars) per box of infantry which includes 7-10 models. And around there for other expansions. There was one ibterview were the standard game size was mentioned to hover around 1000 points with tournaments being a bit smaller. And that larger vehicles will be around 30-40 of the currency mentioned for the infantry but would be able to swap parts between different forms ala their Dust Mecha. Even sayong yes when asked if they were thinking of makibg them easily magnetized.
For standard games, played on 6×3 tables, you have 800 points to construct your army.
An army MUST include the following:
One or Two Commanders
3-6 Corps (Troopers)
Up to 3 Special Forces
Up to 3 Support (Speeder bikes or AT-RT)
Up to 2 Heavy units (they mentioned AT-ST’s and Snowspeeders)
It’s $89.99 in the US, and I have seen UK pre-orders around £81 for the Core Set.
I am absolutely stoked about this, and this is the game I have been dreaming about for years. It has everything I love from their other games like X-Wing, Armada and Imperial Assault, with all their learning combined to make their perfect Star Wars large scale War Game.
As someone who owns absolutely everything from Imperial Assault so far, I am not bothered in the slightest. I got into Imperial Assault not for the Skirmish (as that was something that was seemingly tacked on to avoid some legalities), but I wanted a cool Star Wars themed version of Descent (also one of my fave board games). I am still waiting in anticipation of the App for that game, as I am sure it will open a load of potential for it yet again.
For Legion, I am glad there is a difference in scale, as this allows for more detail than was previously found on some (not all) of the Imperial Assault models. As they are also models that require assembly, there may be some limited conversion opportunities – and I am sure, if you follow Runewars, there will be alternative sculpts down the line.
I love the mechanics of the game, and if you haven’t see in yet I wholeheartedly suggest you watch the 1hour demo with Team Covenant. This is the fast game that I was hoping 40k 8th Edition would be. As someone who collected and played 40k for many years, and have felt let down by the last 3 editions, Legion is something that will become my go to game (even over some of my other faves like Infinity).
I know some people will say that this lacks the tactical depth, or even diversity in range, than a lot of other games out there, but I don’t care. This is Star Wars and it will be like going back to the bedroom of my childhood, where I faced my Stormtroopers off against Luke and made pew pew noises! I will still be making pew pew noises while I roll handfuls of dice, while firing off canons from AT-RT’s!!
Roll on January!
For anyone waiting on the game system being the deciding factor they have said that the rules will be available on FFG for free download as with most of there core games. You wont get the cards or tokens but you’ll certainly get a flavor of the rules and some cards are posted up showing some details in there news announcement.
This game just looked awesome.
Did they mention other factions? Even with a number of new releases for rebels and the empire, it will default into a very limited meta if you’re competitively playing. It would be nice to have a little more rock paper scissors instead of just two rocks hammering away.
count me in – of course…
So many alien races to choose from to fill out the ranks of the rebels ( we have a couple of Duro like Cad Bane in the Starter ), I hope we see sculpts for Mon Calamari, Sullustans, Wookies ( not including Chewie, he’s a shoe in anyway ), Twi-Leks, maybe even a Bothan.
Problem i see with this scale is vehicles… they should be B I G
Let’s consider 32mm to be an actual scale of 1/57 (Wikipedia)
According to wookiepedia, an AT-AT is 44,5 meters tall
SO; 44,5/57=0,78m
SO: 78cms at-at… do you really think a 30 cms tall would be enough? If you half them… would you also halve the snowspeeders?
This is top of my list. I wasn’t so keen on the high detail dungeon crawler style of Imperial Assault, but this scale really scratches my ‘table top game’ itch with the soothing remedy of Star Wars too 😉
I’m sure IA will continue on for those who prefer the boxed game/ skirmish style, not everyone is going to jump boat and change to a ‘hobby’ game and build their own table.