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May 16, 2012 by warzan
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Both Warren and Darrell delve into the murky world of rules and take a look at a few interesting rumors on how Wound Allocation (during shooting) may be shaping up in Warhammer 40,000′s 6th Edition.
Nice Rule, Makes alot more sense that the models in the front get hit before the models in the back row.
What happens when half of a squad is behind a building and out of line of sight? As long as the wounds don’t go through the entire unit (i.e. if I can only see 3 guys out of a 10 guy squad only those 3 are removed) I’m okay with this.
Hopefully, there is more to this as it still doesn’t solve the issues with stacking no save wounds on top of each other. What if I have a mixed squad on Grey Knights with a Psycannon and I do 3 rending wounds and 4 regular wounds to 3 guys? Can I still put all of the rending wounds on 1 model and put the 2 regular wounds on each of the remaining models? I hope not!
The cover save rule will probably remain the same. Though you can loose a unit that way anyway, If most of the unit is in cover than the entire unit gets the save, doesn’t mean that just because they are behind a wall they aren’t hit.
So probably going to be your whole unit gets a save, but all are able to be toasted.
jippie sounds like the game get´s more realistic like it was in 2nd edition
I only play fantasy but changes like that would make me get back to 40K .
Love the rule. Just have one question about a single type model squad.
Say a large group of Nids Hormagaunts are marching accross the table, will shooting them down remove the front row as well or will the other players still be able to remove the back row.
The answer to that question will be a huge factor since by mowing down the front row may prevent someone from being in range to assault on his turn.
As long as they’re going less abstract, saying front row dies first, I would think (and hope) that those are the ones your remove…meaning you could effectively shoot a unit out of charge range. Makes for more interesting tactical choices, not only of who to shoot, but who you’re putting where. Don’t want your flamer to die first, put him in the back, but you might not get good placement when its time for him to flame someone. We’re playing a tactical wargame, I’m all for it being more tactical as long as it doesn’t get too fiddly.
Precisely my question: which ones do you remove? It would break the spirit to remove the backranks again, especially if the front markers are making the saves.
However, it now gives you options for tactics: imagine block walking terminators across the board with an assault unit behind them, closing ranks to protect the assault guys.
That’s exactly what they said. the front Rank gets Toasted Nid boy. So you just lost about 1 to 2 inches on your next charge. But don’t cry, Marines loose cover because of it. No more cover saves, if a targets in the open it gets popped. So does this mean that the Marines can pop Monstrous critters over the heads of the Gaunts is what you need to worry about.
Ok, I know we don’t have all the rules yet, but this seems a bit …incomplete. Who decides where to measure from? I presume it would be the attacking player choosing a single model in his unit to measure from, but since units shoot as a whole in 40k it could get awkward having a mass of fire coming from one guy -just as awkward measuring individual models. Hopefully GW saw this stumbling block and put in a set of rules for who to measure from.
Yeah I sorta see what your going with, it make more sense to say that if a group of guys gets a lot of wounds any failed saves should be put on the guys at the front, so say a melta guy makes his save but 3 regular guys bites it, the three closes models should be removed. as to where its measured from? with this rule (if its true) I presume it will be closest to closest.
I assume it will be either measured from one guy that is closest, but it could get strange having a melta shot from a guy on the left measured from a bolter guy on the right. I may have found Darrel’s cheese.
Surely would have to be whoever is nearest to *the firer*, so meltagun guy hits his nearest, bolter his nearest.
That makes sense, and would be more realistic.
Is it just me or would other people like to know if we’ll see 6th ed in July? Just a confirmation (even if it were July/August, or even, 3rd Quarter/2nd half) rather than this hiatus.
That ‘not knowing’ is holding me off buying anything.
Love it, i’m tired on having my firewarriors punch a hole in a charging unit and all the guys at the back drop dead, its makes more sense that the guys at front takes the hits.
Overall I like the attempt to fix the wound allocation abuse(despite the fact I regularly use it with my paladins), I’m not sure how much of an effect this will have, especially on smaller units, as it’s harder for you to stack all your shots on the same angle of the unit to get the casualties. The other issue I have with it is a realism thing. I like the idea of the guys in the line of fire being first to get hit, but will shooting stay the same and all opponents can shoot you if there’s only one of your models in range. Will this mean you have to stack all the wounds on that guy(which is epic overkill) or do you get to spread them around the unit still based on who’s next nearest(which breaks the whole realism thing it was going for)
It’ll run into problems with units that have multiple base sizes- IG squads get the shaft a wee bit since they have heavy weapons on huge bases that can now be instant deathed by a krak grenade launcher with SFA you can do about it, but I can see how that works, certainly it works better than allocating the hits from special weapons on models that are out of their range- I’m damn sure if I was shooting at 10 guys crowded round a massive machinegun/laser I’d be aiming at the gun and its crew rather than the guy with a pistol shouting at them…
As for shooting the back row of a hoard, you’d shoot the closest guys to you still- assuming there isn’t some rule added to allow certain units to take from the back representing their weight of numbers, or possibly you’d still be shooting at the ‘type’ of model in the unit rather than specific models- which would allow you to take from anywhere since every gaunt in the unit is identical.
It’s an interesting one – I’d argue that the heavy weapon is being protected by the troops at the front who protect it, thus you shouldn’t be able to shoot at it directly.
On the gaunts – yes, but it sort of defeats the point of wounding the nearest enemy: you want to shoot at the guys at the front to halt charges/block them off. Taking chaps from the back effectively allows the unit extra charge range.
But then, MRDA. I’m a guard player who plays against nids!
I’d say there would be a small bit more info when the rules come out. For example, a person with a heavy weapon in the unit is closer than some other person is to a particular model. If that makes sence. The question I have is what about 2 or special characters wound models. Do you apply one wound and then move on?? Also, if the units at the back are out of range, do they miss or are they reapplied to the first models?? Then do the first models have to make 2 saves and if so do you allocate how many saves a model has to make before taking them? And what about weapons with different strengths and APs? Who gets to apply those wounds. Is it the player getting shot? I know.. It’s alot of questions but they just keep popping up in my head
The rules on Line of sight, range measuring and cover will almost definitely have impact on wound allocation as well, but I think this is just a simple example- if the BoW crew actually do have a head start on the other rules tying into allocation they probably deliberately left them out of the vid to just get the point of the basic system over for now .
Another question is which armies will this benifit? Tau: yes Orks: No They are the 2 obvious ones I guess
Its hard to say “army X will gain/lose out” without knowing how Line of sight, Cover, range measuring, barrage weapons etc all work along side it- you’ll probably find that really nobody will gain or lose anything, just a lot more thought will need to go into formations and movement than before.
I really, really hope so. It’s really quite hard work to get the best from a unit of tacticals. Half can’t move, the other half can, but then can only shoot 12″ – and then not assault.
it will be great against the nids, a horde will be pushed back
That depends- if you’re still allocating the wounds to the stat lines rather than individual models, hoards will still keep coming were uniquely equipped elite units like vanguard vets or space wolf terminators might end up losing a linchpin model to your strategy.
But what if you score 10 hits on a 6 man unit ?
All the unit have the same save.
Will you have to roll 2 saves each on the first 4 targets and then one each on the other 2 ?
Or roll 10 dice to save, and take off one guy for each of the fails, closest to the shooter.
It could be time consuming using the first method.
Again that comes back to if you’re hitting stat line groups or specific models-10 hits on 6 guys is presumably everyone hit once then the closest 4 guys hit once again for a total of two hits .
If all 10 are identical EG conscripts or gants/gaunts etc and the rule are intended to be that you’re hitting specific models you have to roll the saves for the guys hit twice individually which is kinda time consuming and mostly pointless, when you can just roll 10 saves and take off the fails from the front, but if there’s a Leader/special weapon in the group they take their saves first lets say your six man example squad has a Sergeant and a flamer, the Sergeant is in the back two so he’s only hit once and rolls one save, your flamer will want to be on point so he’s in the front, one of the four hit twice and takes two saves, then the remaining 7 saves are rolled and you take away the fails from your four grunts, presumable from the closest first for consistency, but you might be able to chose which ones much like failing saves on multiple identical models works now.
I think I came up with the ultimate solution to wound allocation. It’s sort of like this rule but much more natural. When your guys are shooting at another unit have a shotgun. Fill it up with grapeshot and point it at the unit. Any model not left standing takes a wound. See it’s so easy to resolve, just point and shoot.
I think as Warren does. It will add a lot of realism and cinematic experience to the game. I think that the wound allocation rule should stay the same about each model in the unit getting a wound before you start allocating a second one to a particular model.
I hope 6th edition will keep the cinematic experience in mind when it comes to rule changes. I hope the game remains fast and easy going. That’s all I’m actually asking for.
this will be good if it’s true. the only thing is does this mean the guys under the flamer template are the ones to take wounds or the guys closest to the flamer take the wounds? same with blasts.
Be the ones under the template/marker. Also, generally the ones under a template are usually the nearest, but it does open up some real options. Pelting forward and flaming right through the centre of a unit of ‘stealers then bolting the nearest ones to protect the flamer guy. Risk vs reward.
I honestly think it has ups and downs. I like the realisme the rule brings to the game, kind of tired of seeing orks being pulled from the back of the unit when my space marines unload into them. Then again I forsee my trranids being taken out of ALOT of assalt range right when I need them to ben in assault range, as if Tyranids needed to be hurt anymore…..poor bugs, I suppose Hive fleet Evil Lady Bug will have to take a break for a while.
hmm, my biggest problem with the rules when they went from 4th to 5th was wound allocation. I hated it, and still do as it causes all kinds of crappy delays in playing the game while you figure out which ones to put the wounds on then what saves they have to make blah, blah, blah. Still hate it and find it the biggest pain in the arse!!!
The more I think about this the more I like it- if its applied consistently closest model of a group first it can take away the gamesmanship of wound allocation, no removing the one guy that would put you in charge range of that furiso dreadnought or assault terminator squad your heavy support unit will be finished off or bogged down by etc, all that could be set up avoided, countered and defended against in the movement phase, rather than at the last second by choosing casualties in a specific fashion to save the unit.
Of coarse if once you fail saves you’re still allowed to just take anyone from the same statline group we’re right back at the delays while waiting on someone deciding which models to remove…
I don’t like it. I would rather go back to allocating wounds after the saves have been rolled. It made since to me before that if a guy with a special weapon died, one of his buddies would pick it up, and that’s why the special weapons and sgt. were always the last 2-3 guys in the unit.
It makes sense for some things to be able to pick up the weapon, but not others for example if a meltagun trooper dies its a quick pause to grab the gun and unhook his webbing for ammo, but if say a commissar gets fragged his pistol is easy enough to swipe but you can’t really stop and pick up his decades of indoctrination into the cult imperialis and almost sociopathic sense of duty.
I can see it being very cool to play in firendly game.
Moving to get the advantage in shooting could be a game changer.
I can also see a lot of rules lawyers arguing over it in tournaments.
A full rule set will be better to judge apon.
But who cares if were all having fun.
Certainly not perfect (yet), but a huge improvement. The current wound allocation system is probably the biggest reason I stopped playing 40k. It simply does not make any sense, at all
This rule has been needed for as long as i can remember playing.
Far more realistic and easier to use. If your a beginner it will be more intuitive. I dislike the way it is played now where your opponent takes casualties off the front or rear ranks denpending on his desire to get into close combat or not.
Dislike, though I don’t think it will affect the game that much, as I assume if you hit a squad of 10 marines with 10 shots, every mode takes a hit. If you get a few lucky shots in, it makes sense that they’ll hit the models closest. But the idea that if your kill your melta gun, it’s gone, and no one else knows how to use the melta gun .. that’s just stupid. Wound allocation actually created a bit more sense in the game, despite what these new allocation rules appear to be intuitively. That being said, always putting that single wound onto the guy with the Invun save is pretty absurd as well.
“Brother Epson, who wields a Heavy Bolter, just bought the farm, brothers!” “Anyone gonna pick up his gun?” “NOPE”
Aye – depends. They might argue that when the model is killed the weapon is also destroyed, cut in two with a power sword, smashed to bits from bolter fire or some such.
Indeed, but whatever the case, if these new rules are so, then it demands an across the board points decrease for various weapons. Would GW be smart enough to bring out a massive all-army pdf giving new points costs?
I think it will work well with the rumored pre-measuring mechanic. This will actually feedback into the movement phase and require more tactical decisions (which is good!). I don’t think the printed rule could be as simple as it is explained here. IMHO, there’s just too many permutations with shooting (i.e., range, weapon types, etc).
Many Bothans died bringing us this information…
To be serious, I think this will make Flamers and Meltas that have short ranges and need to be in the front much more vulnerably. We will also see more Characters leading from the rear, rather then the front. In 40K I always envisioned characters leading by example. Even squad sergeants and champions would be at the head of the formation; leading the men. With this set of rules, the smart thing to do will be to put all the important stuff in the centre of the formation and have everything else be ‘buffer.’
Raise Meat Shields! Double Front!
OK, this is nice and all. But what about the mixed shooting? If those 6 Terminators take 4 plasma wounds and 6 bolter wounds from a single squad in a single round of shooting will the owning player still be able to stack the plasma wounds on the same 2 Terminators? It’s the “Shoot-less-for-more damage” effect that REALLY needs to be fixed.
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