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Pointless Views: Metal Miniatures Are Superior In Every Way?
November 1, 2019 by crew
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Best picture EVER!Pushed Napoleon and Wellington to a close 2nd
Yes they are. Next topic please
So @avernos has reached peak meme XD
Great show and you even managed to get to the correct outcome well done gents.
I’d be keen to pop in for a chat if you’re after people.
I do not like resin, I live in a country that regularly gets above 35-40 Degrees so yeah Resin is not a smart idea.
As someone who does take public transport to and from events/games metal can be a tad heavy but books are far worse, they take up so much space, they always end up either around your neck, stuffed into the side of a bag that’s makes it unbalanced or underneath everything that makes it into a giant pendulum to smack you in the shins. I would rather a full metal army than three rulebooks.
If metal was superior in every way, then other materials wouldn’t be used. But interesting chat and some good points from the discord and the panel. As a hobby we are fortunate we have so much choice out there – I personally don’t get the plastic only, metal only crowds as there are just so many great minis in every material out there.
Recycling of plastic is an interesting one. I’d be quite cynical on this and wouldn’t be surprised if most of the plastic that is collected by your local council isn’t just dumped or burned anyway or sent to another country to be dumped or burned… But doesn’t it make us feel good about ourselves when we say we recycle. But if you do want to do your bit for the environment, generally, recycling should be the final option… there was a reason it was Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.
I haven’t listened to the full show yet but when talking about minis and suitable materials wargaming is more than just 28mm. Metal is still the best medium for the smaller scales
Metal model test and trial? Well we need to use these: https://www.beastsofwar.com/news/heavy-metal-heroes-strongholds-webstore/
It won’t get more metal than that!
This was interesting to watch.
There are few things that weren’t mentioned that might have an impact on the few.
In plastic kits you can place several options to choose from to assemble your models.
Extra heads, weapons, legs, arms, …. I don’t know if you have a lot of metal kits that have these.
But then again they probably would make different models to give you your options.
Transporting metal minis, only Lloyd touched on it. Transporting metal minis isn’t that great.
If you have an army of 100+ models in metal compared to plastic and you have to go somewhere and you don’t go by car then I rather have the plastic.
it depends on the company, some companies like Raging heroes do provide additional options for the kits.
No had chance to listen to show yet,recently brought the plastic Battlemechs purely for transport reasons, but still play with the metal ones at home.
I need to watch the video in full but currently, I disagree, to a point. I think one-piece metal miniatures are great. They are finely detailed, just need slotting onto a base and they’re good to go. Beyond that though, metal is just (imo) fiddly and a pain in the arse to stick together.
If it was cheap enough to produce the same models in high-quality plastic as we’ve seen for Hellboy and plenty of CMON games I think you still get loads of detail and you can also tinker around with the models with ease. I love tinkering with plastic miniatures and playing around with poses, options and the like.
I just have too many horror stories of trying to work with big, unwieldy and awkward to build multi-part metal miniatures to agree (currently). I don’t think they are friendly to newcomers unless they are one-piece.
Best metal minis of 2019
Footsore’s Saxon Huscarls. Though something Burrows and Badgers, Baron Wars or Sci-Fi would probably be more interesting as people would have a much wider palette to choose from.
Hmmmm….tough call.
Pros:
Great for infantry (resin is not so great except for mierce minis resin infantry, which is just fantastic).
Nice weight.
Holds good detail.
Nice and cool to the touch….:)
Cheaper than most resin.
Cons:
Horrible for large creatures (resin is perfect here)
Hard to reshape bent bits.
Can be an arse to glue.
Parts often don’t match up as good as plastic or resin (hope you love greenstuff).
I can see why plastic is a great way to go for models, but it isn’t really an option for smaller companies due to high upfront costs. And individual plastic heros etc are super expensive its cheaper to go resin (looking at you Gw, 50+ bucks for a single man sized character)
Plastic also isn’t always great for detail, and for some things doesn’t look very good.
However plastic puts together really well, can have lots of mods on sprue and is very beginner friendly.
I’d prefer metal to plastic for infantry and characters.
Resin over everything for monsters (and if mierce minis resin then infantry is a big yes).
One thing I really like about plastic kitsets is the ability to easily add character to my models.
Be that just a head turned to an interesting position, a slight turn at the hips, the raising of an arm holding a sword to indicate a downward slicing action…
Or a kitbash, using the legs from the Assault Marine kit with the Tactical Marine kit so that my Black Templar Crusader Squad is running into battle, brandishing their chainswords.
I classify kitbashing slightly differently to conversion as one doesn’t have to modify the parts to get a good effect.
For someone new to the hobby, kitbashing is a way of easing into conversions.
With the way metal is cast rather than injection molded, I don’t see an easy way of producing metal kitsets.
I’d argue that it due to design.
When you’ve got square pegs then you can’t reposition arms.
However when they don’t have them then you can.
Warlord do separate metal heads for some of their metal/resin infantry …
Haha, well that was a pointless view because you didn’t convince me that metal IS superior in every way?
In reality I find myself material agnostic, I buy what I like and use it how I want to.
I don’t think Metal mini’s are superior. I just finished building the Hellpit abonimation model. Can a metal version of that same model be cast? I don’t think so.
But let us assume it can (I am not an expert on cating). But what about the weight. Yes moving the heavy models does give a nice feeling. I bet moving / transporting a metal army from point a to point b will not be so kind to your back. You will need to have better cases to handle the weight of your army. Especially when you are horde player.
Are metal armies bad? No,just not superior 🙂
Of course plastic and resin miniatures can be hard to put together, but it’s harder to get right in the design with metal than it is compared to resin or plastic.
With converting miniatures, metal can be a pain, but with the right tools and patience, definitely possible.
For that challenge we really need a good multi-part Infinity model. That would be the best of the best in my opinion and show people that metal miniatures can be good.
For multi-pose miniatures I prefer plastic, for multi-part mono-pose miniatures I prefer resin (Not GW failcast) and for single-piece mono-pose miniatures I prefer metal or resin. It really depends on the kind of miniature what material is better for me.
I still think the lethality of metal miniatures being thrown around is a hazard that may change your mind on metal miniatures.
I think the show went really well, from the statement of intent to the final conclusion.
One I realised after watching this was the increased postage costs that would be incurred due to the weight people love.
Well now that shipping is now “volumemetric” (rather than just based on weight), and plastic minis on a sprue take up more room……are you able to save on the shipping any more?
A metal infantry is about 10-20g. So an army of 1000 soldiers is only 10kg-20kg. More Weetabix is needed, it seems.
“Warren’s given them 2p sneakers” – is this the new cement shoes? Is Warren the miniatures mafia?
?
Always happy to jump on a call for a future topic.
all wrong!!! lol 😉 sorry just being a git, of corse Warren is right…….
slowly shakes head….. 😀
For me it is a matter of playing style and utility. If I am playing a skirmish game like saga – I prefer metal because of the character and heft.
When it comes to mass battle games like Hail Caesar or Kings of War I simply prefer plastic because of price and weight.
That what it boils down to for me.
Clearly metal isn’t superior in every way, if that were true nobody would make miniatures out of anything else. Plastic is obviously superior if you want to produce miniatures by the thousand.
But let’s ignore manufacturing and say that it’s only the end product itself that’s being compared. Even then you would have to define what is the end product, is it the assembled painted model or is it the product the consumer purchases.
If it’s the finished model then without picking it up a complete beginner in hobby would be hard pressed to tell whether many miniatures were metal or plastic. GW’s kit design is, for the most part, exceptionally good and if you stand two miniatures side, one GW and one Corvus belli by side you really wouldn’t know what they were made from by sight unless you already knew a little about both companies and their general bias towards certain materials.
If we’re talking about the product as purchased then I am afraid from an assembly point of view plastic is vastly superior. Metal is superior for single cast miniatures, plastic is superior for kits. Plastic glue is far more forgiving, plastic components are generally far more accurate and because plastic glue doesn’t stick fingers, it’s much easier to attach small components in plastic.
By way of example, I recently assembled all of Operation Red Veil as well as the Beyond Ice Storm and Beyond Red Veil boxes, plus an additional few miniatures that I had lying around. It took me a total of almost 50 hours to clean, prepare and assemble the miniatures, 51 in total. Admittedly Pinned a lot of them but that’s because superglue creates a very brittle bond that can break just by being handled or knocked over. However I also recently assembled 2 Necromunda gangs, including cleaning up the parts; I managed 20 miniatures in a couple of hours. I consider myself an experienced modeller and have a lot of experience with Corvus Belli miniatures. I absolutely love them and I love the heft of metal miniatures, I love how cool they are to the touch when you pick them up. They feel special, less disposable. But superior in EVERY way? No, absolutely not
Best minis are the one that paint themselves in any format!!!!!!!!!
or Army painter should be just that , Buy a can of Roman Legionnary Early Imperial 28mm , point at figure and spray.
Trouble is then would end up with a lot of free time……
could actually read all the books I have.
I agree with most of comments , I currently find plastic easier to work with and don’t have any issue with weight.
But it is just a personal perferance, though will probably change my mind at next lot of shiny!
I’m not sure if metal is superior, but it is definitely not inferior. As long as the design is good and production is clean, I’m happy with all materials.
I suppose I’d vote for an Infinity model for the challenge as we’ve repeatedly lauded them as being the new gold standard? This one is a new release and as a Shasvastii is on theme with Defiance:
https://store.corvusbelli.com/wargames/infinity/miniatures/shasvastii-cadmus-hacker
Or the slight historical influence to the Pano military orders might have wider appeal in the community.
https://store.corvusbelli.com/wargames/infinity/miniatures/crusader-brethren-multi-rifle-light-ft
While I do enjoy the details and weight of metal, plastic is so much easier to convert.
One of the ways in which plastic is better then metal (especially for board game miniatures) is that it is less fashionable. whether that response is backed up by facts or not we can’t deny that ALOT of what we do is based on option.
Metal minis just give you the feel that you are getting what you’ve paid for ! Although I’ve often wondered why nobody has ever thought of replacing chunky metal swords ,knives etc. with hard plastic . You could by a figure that comes with a sprue of various weapons , a piece of steel wire with different fittings for spears , poleaxes , billhooks …. , different types of swords or knives and be able to have more realistic scale weapons.
@warzan earlier this year I sent you a package containing 4 metal Fallen Frontiers miniatures. You may not have received it but if you did then I have a suggestion. The metal models in that box are all currently available in resin. Get one of the team to paint both the metal and resin version of the same miniature and then take the Pepsi challenge. Test for quality, dropability and paint rubbyboffness!
I prefer single piece metal models. GW plastic models go together brilliantly, as do Perry, Fireforge, Warlord, etc. but a single piece model is the best for me. As soon as glue is needed though I prefer plastic; I even prefer assembling resin models to metal models as metal always needs a pin, resin may not.
On the subject of lead, I worked at GW in the days of lead figures. We were blood tested for lead but it was only usually the casters who were at risk of high levels of lead in the bloodstream. Us Mail Order Trolls were just fine, despite handling lead all day.
IF you want to promote metal minis then maybe you need to also :
– sell the tools to assemble them
– teach people how to do so
Maybe a boxed set with minis, a tutorial and the tools ?
Plastic kits have the easy-build variants that allow for an intermediate step between ‘single piece’ designs and scale model complexity. These can be assembled without glue (provided the design is good).
Metal minis don’t have such options. So you need to learn more skills to get to an intermediate level of skill.
For myself, the major concern I have is that metal miniatures are extremely prone to paints chipping compared to plastic or resin. Even with three coats of sealcoating I still find edges that chip.
The other concern is ease of squad diversification and customization for mass battle games.
I find that the quality of metal, resin or plastic depends on the company that is producing the miniatures. For example, Corvus Belli makes the best metal miniatures I have ever seen. The easy of assembly outshines competitors such as Privateer Press and Gamesworkshop. Along a similar vein Gamesworkshop takes alot of time to engineer the plastic sprues to fit as many options requiring the minimum amount of cleanup on sprues. Some other companies have produced sprues that have infuriated me with the placement of the injection points.
I love metal mini’s! I score both mating surfaces, I clean the power release and the mold lines. I use Gorilla Super Glue, and none of my metal minis have ever come apart since then. The heft of an HQ or Sergeant model is just worth it! Wow, feels like I got something for my money!
Keep your metal minis 1″ from a table edge, dont let concrete floors crush their details. Keep them out of hte freezer or -40 Canadian winters, and it’ll be ok!
Need to cut as metal mini? Use a jeweller saw [cheap on Ebay or have a 20 yr old GW one.]
When GW stopped selling metal minis I decided to stop supporting them, it was a tough decision but I enjoy getting value for my dollars./quid
Metal all the way
I think the OTT crew slipped between ‘metal is superior to all other materials for any given quality’ to ‘metal is superior to at least one other material for any given quality’.
I take the points about manufacturing and the recycability of metal compared to plastic (which i’d be interested finding out more about BTW) but from the point of view of a hobbyist the issue for me with metal miniatures is that they are heavy and significantly heavier than the plastic and resin options. In my experience, for me at least, this makes metal an inferior material for miniatures compared to lighter materials such as plastic and resin for these reasons:
1. I can’t be sure, because i’m not in the industry, but i have a strong impression that the weight of the metal limits the design of miniatures made with metal, more than miniatures made with (those significantly) lighter materials, in order to prevent them being top heavy and lessen the chance of them toppling.
2. No matter the design of a miniature made with metal they are more prone to toppling than a miniature made with another material, all other things being equal.
3. Because they are more prone to toppling, and also because of the extra weight they put on (less sturdy) terrain pieces, the kind of terrain that metal miniatures can be placed on is more limited.
The heft of the miniature is not of concern to me.
Whilst it’s not necessarily an issue of superiority i do find that metal miniatures have a ‘heavy sharpness’ (for want of a better phrase) to them, which is good or bad depending on what’s required.
I’m not against metal miniature parts and i would prefer a miniature to be made from multiple materials if that’s what gave me a more true to scale and realistic looking miniature, even if this meant a more involved assembly process.
I’ve read and been told that there are a number of problems with plastic recycling. Not all plastics are recyclable of course. Sometimes types of plastic are combined so that the end result is that they can’t be recycled even if those types would have been recyclable uncombined. The plastic might be recyclable but not be marked or poorly marked as such and so doesn’t get recycled. There isn’t a big enough market for recycled plastics.
how to end the discussion. simple. pick up a 15mm tiger or 28mm tiger in plastic and then in resin and then in metal. can you feel rhe difference. that is the weight of lead and power. plastic makes it easy to make large numbers of troops and tanks bit the cream to the crip should always be metal. what was the column in white dwarf….eavy metal.
nuff said.
Gerry wins this hands down.
correction….tanks. The cream of the crop should always be metal.
additional. my flames if war tiger company in metal has dealt out tons of die death to the opponents so i don’t want to mess with a good thing. panzers vorwarts.
I don’t post often, but this topic caught my interest. Metal is best, well for some figures yes. But not all. Then you also have to look at costings. People’s disposable income is less these days and with prices rising, plastic box sets allow us to build bigger armies and even have more than one or two. I think it was touched on in the show too, not all of us can paint to such a high standard that we need all this fine detail. You could argue it is wasted on painters like me. But I have to say my favorite fantasy army was my old Khorne army with metal bloodletters and metal juganorts. but back then we all had metal armies even my Napoleonic armies were metal too.
Nah. I love my “characterful” metal minis from the 80s and 90s, but there’s no doubt that both resin and plastic miniatures hold much more detail; you even touched on this in the video (“sure, resin has sharper edges…” – well surely that makes it “better” for the purpose of capturing detail? Who looks at their resin minis and complains “man, that’s really captured *everything* I think I’d prefer my minis to have slightly rounded/obscured details”?)
Metal minis feel great, but are a pain to pin and glue during assembly. Plastic minis can have weighted bases to give a similar feel AND retain the details AND be all round easier to work with. Multi-part plastic minis allow for dynamic poses – can you honestly say that today’s Space Marines are inferior to those stumpy, daft-looking beaky things from the 80s??
I prefer playing games with metal minis because of the tactile feel of them. But paint chipping is a *real* problem. Plastic it better at resisting chipping *in normal gaming use*.
What’s the “better” modelling material for terrain-making, rigid foam or stone? Every argument against stone could be dismissed simply because the user “doesn’t have the skills or the tools to work it properly”. You’re trying to use the same argument for metal over plastics here. “Metal is better than plastic and if you can’t work metal it’s because you’re not skilled enough” – nah, not having it.
Nice try boys, but I’m not convinced.
I’m late to the party but chipping in my thoughts for the buy in, Raging Heroes is my bid for convenience of the community project. I’ve bought in on their original KS and a couple of mi is since and have not been let down by the quality. I have felt like I was lacking as a painter to make them look very good so I’ve practiced much with other companies. I’d say their 3D renders put to metal is superb and would do well to allow for the showcasing of the material. I’ll hold that perhaps Kingdom Death might be better as metal, to avoid the frailty of the sculpts, but that’s a business decision for another company.
Anywho, count me in on preregistration for competition. Here’s my shortlist that might be of use to pick from.
Nepharya, NecroPriestess (might need to contact them for a production run timeframe since this seems to be popular and sold out at time of posting)
Brunhilde with Shield on War Steed
Skaarlys
Skaryaa, the Blood Mistress
Asharah SF
For historical figures, I think it has to be metal as the plastics look plastic even when painted. They just seem too ridged compared to most metals. Cake Miniatures are really nice for 28mm Prussians, take a look and see if you’ve not seen them.
For fantasy and Sci Fi, I agree with some of the comments and plastic / resin for larger models and creatures, although I’m happy with plastic for the run of the mill dudes.
@torros I also agree that Wargaming is not just 28mm or hero scale and some of the most fun I’ve had in the hobby has been with 6 & 10mm over the years. Unfortunately my eyes are not what they once were and even 15mm is a struggle.
Well stated. Metal minis are superior in all ways.