Pointless Views: Have You Heard Of Beta Max?
October 18, 2019 by crew
For some website features, you will need a FREE account and for some others, you will need to join the Cult of Games.
Or if you have already joined the Cult of Games Log in now
What difference will having a FREE account make?
Setting up a Free account with OnTableTop unlocks a load of additional features and content (see below). You can then get involved with our Tabletop Gaming community, we are very helpful and keen to hear what you have to say. So Join Us Now!
Free Account Includes
- Creating your own project blogs.
- Rating and reviewing games using our innovative system.
- Commenting and ability to upvote.
- Posting in the forums.
- Unlocking of Achivments and collectin hobby xp
- Ability to add places like clubs and stores to our gaming database.
- Follow games, recommend games, use wishlist and mark what games you own.
- You will be able to add friends to your account.
What's the Cult of Games?
Once you have made a free account you can support the community by joing the Cult of Games. Joining the Cult allows you to use even more parts of the site and access to extra content. Check out some of the extra features below.
Cult of Games Membership Includes
- Reduced ads, for a better browsing experience (feature can be turned on or off in your profile).
- Access to The Cult of Games XLBS Sunday Show.
- Extra hobby videos about painting, terrain building etc.
- Exclusive interviews with the best game designers etc.
- Behind the scenes studio VLogs.
- Access to our live stream archives.
- Early access to our event tickets.
- Access to the CoG Greenroom.
- Access to the CoG Chamber of Commerce.
- Access the CoG Bazarr Trading Forum.
- Create and Edit Records for Games, Companies and Professionals.
I hear your Beta Max and raise you a Video 2000.
And now I’ll watch the video, eat my breakfast and have a coffee… so, don’t make me laugh or I’ll have to clean up here… again…
Are you a fan of Techmoan on youtube?
If not you should have a browse at his channel
oh I love his stuff… so many weird audio formats…. the soundwire being my favourite
Discord sounds cool but I can’t join any of the houses and it looks like a few other people are having the same issue.
Try not copy-pasting the !join command but typing it. Copy and paste sometimes catches invisible characters.
Tried that and tried typing it different ways still no result
then I think @warzan may have broken Ankha while trying to upgrade her 😉
fixed now 🙂
and there was me thinking I may have broken her by asking are you evil lol
I looked at the title and thought @warzan was talking about another Max.
Star Wars Weekend: so just that I get this right: The digital ticket will be 20 Pounds but I have to add 59 Pounds worth of stuff to activate it? Or can the ticket be a stand alone buy?
Ankha needs a lot to be worked on 😉
Show note points…. @dignity where are they! 😉 And, to get back to my favourite game, in Star Wars Legion you can easily sink 200+ points into one Lord Vader in an 800 point game and another 200 into an AT-ST. So two models make up 50% of your force… They can dish out serious damage but when Vader is dead, he’s really dead. 😉 (And you’ve probably lost the came because you have had only 6 activations and your opponent just dances around you)
Saga…. “was thinking about sage while you were on about 40k”. Is this a throwback to @caesar and his comic or isn’t it? 😉
RPG and minis. That’s never been a thing around these parts. RPG (Shadowrun, The Dark Eye, Vampire) have always been just in our minds. The dungeon thing we see with AD&D never took of here… only in games like Hero Quest and stuff.
Your pile of shame challenge is the PAINTATHON! Way ahead of you! HAH! https://www.beastsofwar.com/project/1442359/
Oh, and spec gaming is a nice concept but what am I building and painting my minis for then? Nah, not mine.
And I leave you with some music. If you dare, google the lyrics and translate them… they *might* have to do something with someones attractiveness to animals…
https://youtu.be/mPx0J-U8v5U
One of the problems I see in the “social contract” is that both players have to be aware of who they really are.
The power gamers that I have meet don’t seem to really know that they are power gamers, or as I call one person in particular, Power Rangers – but just not to his face.
They may think they are not that sort of person, but they always are playing the latest, most competitive army….
And other people in the club will know who they really are and only play them occasionally, if they are not of the same mentality.
Some games attract people of that persuasion, I’m looking at you 2nd edition Warmachine…
My hobby is more about building the world and narrative around my forces to the extent that for one tourney I setup a 40K Narrative Event, which included units and characters that appeared in the background fluff of the event. They were sort of like NPCs, but the players got to use them in a single battle.
One player had a great moment when his commissar shot the planetary Governor before he fled, having failed a morale roll. That player was super happy.
Quite a few others weren’t as they were more competitive in nature and hadn’t read the player pack well enough to know the sort of event it was and that it wouldn’t be for them….Despite my best efforts to tell them in the player pack and other communication.
A good number of those unhappy players ended up playing Warmachine.. 😉
I’m currently writing an article looking at games set in Asia and it seems to be an ignored area in gaming, and yet it’s rich in mythology and history. Generally if there is a game set in or influenced by Asia it’s only Japan and mainly Samurai. I was wondering why no one else gets a look in.
Because people are the worst. It’s not just Asia take Europe if I ask who the scandiwegian, roman, or greek top gods were people would have a punt at a few. Now ask the same about irish, or eastern European pantheons and myth. There are incredibly rich stories out there but companies are unwilling to take the risk on basing a product on them. So instead we get the 457th Greek monster instead of something that hasn’t been seen before.
As Tyler Durden says “everything becomes a copy of a copy”
How the Ulster Cycle and Cuchulainn isn’t the bases of a game is beyond me, though he is in Gods and Mortals and can fight the Greeks and Romans….
We have a literal book of invasions.
The world should be weighed down with celtic myth and legends but we get zeus who can’t keep it in his pants
I think it is what we are exposed to when we are young…
That exposure comes down to parents, schools, books, radio, film, TV and, for younger generations, the internet.
So the films I’m thinking are “Jason and the Argonauts” and for @warhammergrimace‘s article “The Seven Samurai”. and other Kurosawa films… Even the Gilbert and Sullivan operetta “The Mikado” has been around since 1885.
I have a number of younger friends, by a full generation, that are into manga and anime – but that still is Japan, probably via the US. That might have something to do with the US presence in Japan after WWII…. Or people of Japanese decent already living in the US looking for a link to the culture they come from.
I’ve lived in New Zealand since 1972 and I’m now 56. So I was mainly in the New Zealand school system. We were mainly taught UK history and it is only now that public conversation is turning to having NZ History compulsorily taught. And that it should be from both sides – colonial and Maori – which I fully endorse, though I have no kids.
I don’t disagree that has influenced it to a large degree. At school I was taught about Greek gods and myths and only heard about irish ones at home. Mythic Games teutonic expansion is going to throw up some of the eastern European myths. But there is a lot more out there to explore. I wonder how the book of the red king is getting on it flirts with celtic myth through Chris fitzpatrick
Got time for an article or vid on the site…. And any recommendation as to perhaps a more generic system that a mythology could be plugged into?
I hear a lot by many people, gamers won’t interested in that but then no one ever offers us anything different and until they do we’ll continue buying the usual output.
I’ve become more interested in Asian history and myth since meeting my wife. The myth side of things is fascinating, in China there are hopping blood sucking undead.
The last time I came across a Maori mythological creature was last night in the first episode of the second season of “Wellington Paranormal”, a TV spin-off from the movie “What We Do In The Shadows”….
It featured a Taniwha – beings that live in deep pools, rivers, dark caves, or in the sea, especially in places with dangerous currents or deceptive breakers (giant waves).
Not gaming but Marvel had a punt at Celtic gods in the Thor comics back in the day , and they did one where he visited various pantheons to get help re-starting Asgard after they had been nobelled by the celestials (I think been a long time)
@warhammergrimace it’s worth having a look at the Ashoka period in India
will do thanks
I imagine there are barely touched myths and legends from quite a few places around the world. I wonder how much the movie industry over the years has influenced what has gone into the school curriculums. Maybe areas are not covered due to the lack of written history from those times, maybe that the target customers are though not to be interested or tha the myths themselves wouldn’t translate to a miniature very well.
I don’t think British myth, folk tales and legends are covered in schools apart from Arthurian legend. Otherwise it’s pretty much ignored, which is a shane as there are some great folk stories and myths all over the UK.
100% combat effective girlyman!
Love that statement @avernos
The Betamax tablets were a lot easier to take than the Eight track suppositories ??
Does this attractiveness to animals mean that Warren has never taken his kids to the zoo? A horny Rhino trying to get to Warren might be a traumatic experience for them, but not as traumatic as it would be to Warren if the Rhino got over the fence.
The Spec tournament sounds interesting. Blood Bowl and Dreadball would be interesting games to try it on as well – everyone plays with the same human team. Your main worry is just the repetitive nature of it all.
Choose a house? I just went where the Sorting Fez sent me!
@lloyd you don’t understand the rules of period on scales!
According to the Grognards of gaming from the 70’s and 80’s
I quote:
25mm Ancient and Napoleonic (no 28mm no 32 mm rubbish)
20mm WW2
15mm Ancient and Napoleonic
28mm was reserved for fantasy shite and Sci fi shite’
I remember the raised eyebrow when 1st corps brought out 28mm WW2 ‘It would never work!’ ‘too big’
Actually it should be whatever floats your boat!
Terrain is usually the big factor, probably why I went 28 mm for Hammers Slammers though in hind sight 15mm would have been way better.
Spec Tournament , to harp on old them Battletech….I’ll get my coat!
You raise an interesting point Warren about the mental aspect
One of my clubs is pretty chilled when it comes to their gaming approach, but we have “Captain WAAC” who refuses to believe he is. Whenever he talks about his army lists, they always have to be “competitive”, and “it’s not my fault other people can’t build lists properly”. In HH, he only plays Mechanicum and Custodes, e.g. the high toughness, multi-wound, invun-save-equipped armies, and then only selects the hardest units from the army lists. As you said, just stop playing him, and everyone did, so he disappeared for a while but has recently returned after a fresh intake into the club (a lot of university students and a new academic year) aka fresh meat for the grinder. I’m wondering how long it will be before he disappears again…
As Ben mentioned, I have no issues in getting my ass kicked as long as I have a fun game. (happens regularly due to my amazing dice-rolling abilities! 🙂 )
I like the idea of a spec tournament.
Another idea I had in the past was list-swap, you turn up with your army and then on the flip of a coin, you swap lists and your opponent potentially plays against you with your army, this would lead towards building balanced lists, but then would you trust someone with your models?
Actually a spec tournament is a brilliant idea!
For a number of reasons
1)The organiser umpire, knows what to expect rules wise other than the rules lawyer who is looking at the emphasis on the last bit of punctuation.
2)Participants only have to learn the rules rather than pick,paint and learn the rules.
3)Good chance they will be painted to 3 colours
4)Player cant pull they spend all points on gimmicky game winning unit ( way back in the early 80’s the WW2 tournement at a show was in uproar when one player picked British , brought only a couple of daimler scout cars and all the rest was on Artillery stonks, and promply wiped out all opposition , though it was clever)
5)You will hopefully find the best player be they lucky or skilful rather than the best list picker.
6)Players are not lugging big bags full of kit half way round the world (or past baggage/customs particularly for tournements with you August selves)
7)there is no 7 I can think of
8) no…….!
As for 1/72 fantasy check out the Dark Alliance plastics replicating Lord of the Rings.
Thank you for posting this! I have been wrecking my brain trying to remember that name!
Dark Alliance do some lovely stuff with more on the way. Ceaser miniatures if you can still going them did some lovely undead figures
The way @avernos initially described a spec tournament reminded me of how the card game bridge can be controlled in a tournament setting – they call it Duplicate Bridge.
“It is called duplicate because the same bridge deal (i.e. the specific arrangement of the 52 cards into the four hands) is played at each table and scoring is based on relative performance. In this way, every hand, whether strong or weak, is played in competition with others playing identical cards, and the element of skill is heightened while that of chance is reduced. Duplicate bridge stands in contrast to rubber bridge where each hand is freshly dealt and where scores may be more affected by chance in the short run.” (Wikipedia)
Replace ‘hand’ with ‘list’ and it sounds transferable to our tabletop context…
@warzan 15mm is good, 10mm is better…
Its a shame that even I think 6mm is a step too far for roleplaying!
I’m two mins in and I’m in stitches
I agree with BEN the main thing playing the game is the fun if you win some yay great but having a good time is the more important thing gaming.
Tesco have fab scull tankards and goblets for Halloween at the moment guys???
I think the spec army event would be really interesting, if you chose a game which you stock and gave us a bit of time you could turn it into a showcase for Armies on Parade too. I imagine that may mean keeping away from too high a model count or price tag but with your ever-growing array of games available instore, this shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
I hear Guard vs Guard in 40k pre-8th Ed was pretty fun as a match or spec game.
There is no “the pile of shame” only “the pile of potential”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
correct, I’m not ashamed of any of my toys, pile of pride is closer.
Yes, the adjectives magnificent and glorious should always be used to describe your lead pile
I’m with you Justin @dignity I don’t know what Beta Max is either!
I volunteer to be the first member of your retirement home, since I will clearly reach that age before you guys! I’ll be the Beta Testor!
Years ago I played in several invitational Warhammer tournaments where players brought one of their usual armies and pointed army list. They then played 8 games, never playing with their own army, moving from army to army and from table to table. What it meant was that after 8 games you had 16 players who had all fought exactly the same scenario, on the same table with two groups of 8 people playing with one of those armies. There was no army race repeated and players were not allowed to play with their own armies. It was great fun, but often led to players purchasing a new army soon after.
I
m loving this idea of a "Spec" tournament, and id love to play in one. Not only do you get to play a game youve never played (probably) before, but you get to play against the same force as your using.....whats not to like. As you pointed out, each table will have a different army on. In this way you never get to use the same army in every game, and one of the good things about this is, if you like the way the system plays your half way there, and getting to use each army (IMHO) gives you a feel of how they play and one of them may fit to your style of play.15 mil could be the future of fantasy gaming, not only can you fit more on to the table, but you can make bigger dungeons and whole villages and larger towns. If you have an encounter with a large creature or two, they will fit in better as you have more space to use them in. Did i mention “BIGGER DUNGEONS”, with lot
s and lots of creatures roaming round.Whats this about warren and animals, there
s nothing wrong with it. Weve all seen animal farm, and those pigs would make great bacon butties with lots of brown sauce. Theres nothing with animals, you either love them or eat them.I have been looking into changing my rpg gaming over to 15mm as well, even though I have absolute massive amounts of 28mm minis and terrain. I think that the smaller scale would allow more ease in play for dungeons, open larger field ranged encounters would feel more like a ranged encounter should, town encounters could be more easily represented and shown.
I think one of the reasons that the smaller range could be really awesome would be when throwing larger monsters at the group of adventurers, I think I would still use 28mm giants, dragons, trolls and other large fantastic beasts.
One of the difficulties I am having is finding the variety of minis that I would like for all things non-monster, villagers for instance.
I have a few 15mm minis and the other thing that stops me switching in earnest is that most of them lack the detail of the 28mm, I know they are smaller and it is probably much more difficult to get the same level of detail onto them but some of the 15mm minis are just dreadful.
One of my ideas to combat this, I have no idea if it would work btw, is to buy STL files and reduce the scale while printing them myself.
depends on what you’re after but Legio Heroica in Italy do lovely peasants and camp stuff in 15mm.
There’s a lot out there but it’s generally squirrelled away in camps and baggage trains and the like so it’s not as quick to spot as units
I wouldn’t change from 28mm to 15mm simply because of the investment I have made at that scale. I don’t want to start again.
However I also wouldn’t advise anyone starting out to go down that route either and it doesn’t have anything to do with the scale of the miniatures, not directly. It’s more based on 2 reason really. The first is choice. There is a much larger range of stuff available for 28mm than 15mm; of course there’s lots of stuff available in each scale but when you want that perfect model for a villain or the player characters, 28mm wins hands down. It’s not just miniatures either but accessories like Dungeon Scenery are much easier to source in 28mm.
The second is that if you build your setups differently storage is less of an issue. Miniatures aren’t that difficult to store at either 28mm or 15mm scale; a couple of storage cases from KR and you should be fine. Scenery is the killer and so for my RPGs I stopped using it. I switched from 3d Scenery to 2.5d and I now run encounters on boards that look like Dungeon Crawlers. I have bought gaming tiles and 3d scenery elements such as doors, chests, barrels etc. This makes storage much easier and also means that I can run encounters in several different locations in a single session. 2.5D (as @warzan calls it) in my opinion is definitely the way to approach RPGs.
There are quite a few companies that do gaming tiles. You can get the official ones for d&d and they have several sets, all double sided so you get two environments per box and there’s loads of different shapes and sizes so you can make loads of different layouts. My experience with the d&d tiles is you really have to plan in advance and keep all the bits you need to hand, which makes them less appealing to me.
My personal favourites are Red Dragon Gaming whose tiles are a uniform size (8″ x 8″) but can be thrown down very quickly without a great deal of planning at all. You can easily get a 2′ x 2′ map together in under 2 minutes without having to plan in advance what it looks like. They are wipe clean so you can use dry wipe markers with them.
Also, the two ranges are entirely compatible if you so wish, just be careful not to draw on the d&d tiles.
Finally, for something extra special, I turn to Battle Systems. I love Battle Systems stuff but it isn’t that great for RPGs because it does take time to construct meaning you have to build the layout in advance. However for an adventure finale that’s what I like to do.
I started trying to run RPGs with Battle systems and it was slowing things down and so I switched very quickly to tiles. It would be awesome to run RPGs in full 3d but my experience was it simply isn’t practical, the 2.5D is the happy medium.
And how is this relevant? All of those products are scaled for 28mm and by going 28mm you have a stunning array of options that you just don’t get at 15mm. I have absolutely no problem with 15mm miniatures if that’s what people prefer, but I think if you want to have a wide range of options available to you then you have to go 28mm.
You should definitely do the “September Shamings” where cultists have to show their piles of shame (no, not your hemorrhoids). That sounds really cultish doesn’t it? Like some kind of ritual.
Or maybe run it like weight watchers where we have a monthly weigh in or something like that. And everyone explains shows off how much of the pile they have cleared or more likely has to explain why it’s got bigger (but still gets a round of applause anyway).
Perhaps combine the two? The worst performers at each weigh in are shamed and this happens in September.
On the ‘Social Contract’ we have that in our Middle Earth group at our local gaming club. Someone will say on our Facepage group “I’m looking for a game of X points to practice for a tournament”, or “who wants a scenario game”? That way everyone knows what type of game that person wants and can make sure they bring something that matches so it works for both players. If you’re not after a competitive game, you don’t have to volunteer for the tournie practice etc…