First impressions vs sustainability. Are looks more important than rules?

[Wolfie65 1252xp 0]

Chess has been around for thousands of years and while there are legions of different figure sets, I don’t think that that’s what’s keeping the game  alive.

[onlyonepinman 18109xp 1]

So what we have established is that there is no right answer.   Broadly speaking it depends on the game, the genre and the business model behind the game.

It shouldn’t be a surprise that the video made the claim about amazing miniatures getting people into the hobby. Zorpazorp is very much in the GW ecosystem and that’s pretty much Games Workshop’s M.O.  However it is by far the only way for a game to grow and thrive.

[limburger 22101xp 0]

Chess (and equivalent wargame like boardgames such as Stratego, checkers and Go) are odd.

I think that if chess were to be invented ‘now’ that the miniatures and ‘extra’ (optional) rules would play a far bigger role.

I do wonder what it would take for any other tabletop wargame to survive like chess has.

Boardgames do tend to have a longer and more consistent shelf live, but otoh … our consumption based society is always looking for the next high. That itself may explain why (war)games have this need to sell ‘more’ things beyond the core game.

I personally get bored with chess. I just can’t focus or care enough after a few turns.

I think that’s why I got into tabletop gaming. There’s always something ‘new’ to challenge me. From trying different army compositions to different terrain and objectives. I love the variety even though sometimes it can be a bit too much.

[grantinvanman 6666xp 0]

I’m just going to say it: THREE DIMENSIONAL CHESS.

 

[onlyonepinman 18109xp 0]

@limburger pretty sure, being friends with a lot of board gamers, that if chess were invented now it would be equally successful.   Board gamers don’t care about miniatures, they really don’t.   They do care about quality and wooden meeples tend to be a preference but they don’t care about miniatures.  So, invent the game and sell it with high quality wooden pieces and a pretty looking board and yes, 100% it would sell.   Chess is only odd if you see it as a wargame, which it isn’t.

[limburger 22101xp 2]

Wiki claims in its original incarnation it was meant to be an (abstract) representation of war … which technically makes it a wargame.

Anyways … off topic and a technicality that’s not relevant here.

Boardgamers may not care about miniatures, but they are affected by marketing and name dropping like the rest of us.

And they are very much into the ‘cult of the new/shiny’ like us as well. Maybe even more so as they are likely to buy more games as expansions (while available) are not yet reached the insanity as wargames have got (especially the GW games … )

 

[Wolfie65 1252xp 0]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that chess rules fit on 1 page while wargame rules fill the pages of a phone book of a small city…..

[grantinvanman]

DBA fit on a napkin, originally.

The first published form of it was very small, certainly not a phone book! Rules, 10 pages, each one half of an A4 normal page

http://www.wrg.me.uk/WRG.net/History/OLDWRG/DBA001.pdf

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by grantinvanman.
• This reply was modified 1 year ago by grantinvanman.
• This reply was modified 1 year ago by grantinvanman.

[onlyonepinman 18109xp 0]

@limburger we will have to agree to disagree there.   Something being an abstract representation of war doesn’t,  in my opinion,  make it a wargame.

[pagan8th 13388xp 0]

I think of chess as a game that teaches you about sacrifice in order to win which is a lesson for generals, but it’s not really a wargame…

However… it could be considered a skirmish game as it’s about moving individuals rather than units and although some pieces are more mobile than others, a single blow can eliminate any piece.

I used to play chess a lot as a teenager when I didn’t have much money. Chess and cards. I’m rusty on chess and when I try playing a computer I tend to lose because I’m out of the habit of playing it.

[limburger 22101xp 0]

@wolfiech OnePageRules (used to?) fit on a single page too.

The challenge/problem for wargames is that folk tend to forget that the rules are guidelines and not legally binding contracts.
(or rather … some folk seem to think that writing rules like they were laws solves all of their ‘problems’ both real and imaginary)

I do wonder how many iterations of the chess rules were needed before castling (sp?) and the en-passant (sp?) moves were legalized.

However one advantage chess has is that there’s only one move you can make, so the variations and possible interactions are always limited. Games that don’t use a grid will always have to deal with the fuzzyness if measurements and positioning, which tends to create a lot of extra work if you want to be precise.

@onlyonepinman I can live with that, because it’s a bit too abstract for me. Only argument I’d have is that wargames are always abstract representations of the real thing at some level. I don’t know where that line is myself.

[onlyonepinman 18109xp 0]

Chess is a game of strategy and in some ways is designed to train the mind to think a certain way.  It uses pieces named for different military units perhaps but it does try to simulate military strategy or tactics.  Chess, in some ways, is similar to Poker – you aren’t playing the game so much as playing the opposing player.

[grantinvanman 6666xp 0]

My first introduction to miniature wargaming was in the army. We used sandtables and GHQ 1:285 miniatures. Rules were Contact! – a derivative of the WRG modern rules.

A link to the rules summary could not be published due to an overzealous spam filter.

[Wolfie65 1252xp 0]

I tend to think of Chess as more of a brain exercise rather than a game, sort of like those interlocking puzzles that seem impossible at first. How do you get that nail out of that bottle with the string around it ? My uncle used to derive great pleasure out of constantly beating me at Chess as a child and when I finally beat him one time around age 13 or so, he didn’t want to play me any more.

My introduction to wargames was my best friend and myself scooting around on our hands and knees on the living room floor, fighting WWIII using 1/72 scale Airfix plastics or Knights vs. Landsknechte with Elastolin figures, shooting them with rubber- or spring powered catapults and cannons, foil balls made from chocolate wrappers as ammunition. Kind of similar to H.G. Wells’ Little Wars I suppose.

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