September 6, 2019 by stvitusdancern
Welcome back for the next episode of Ops Center and your host Jim "Oriskany" is talking how to bring Vietnam to the table and some of the tactics you should use. Get your pen ready and let's begin!
How are you going to command your troops?
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I watched your Valor & Victory game this week and I liked it, and I liked this episode of the Vietnam podcast, too.
I was glad to hear my last purchase for my 15mm Vietnam was good, as I got some weapon platoons for the PAVN including large AA machine guns. And I also got six helicopters to be fired at with said AA machine guns.
As for playing Vietnam games, I play Flames of War and will use some of your hints to get a good and historically not way too far-fetched game. When doing a fight in a city, I´ll copy some of my Stalingrad games, with Russians using the sewers and canalizations to appear where their enemy does not expect them. This is just your idea of hotspots transferred to another game. I will also do something with decoy troops and decoy positions like in the movie “Enemy at the Gates”: “Wo ist der Russe?” – For battles in more open country I´ll replace the sewer system with the tunnel system that you mentioned in the last episode. – Attacks on an American strongpoint by PAVN, Local Forces etc. like in Platoon are another thing I want to try. For this I will use a lot of off-table artillery. I remember stories about how PAVN etc. carried a lot of artillery forward by men and mules and shelling the American positions heavily before the actual assault.
As for civilians, I will use just the ideas you mentioned. and for the figurines I´ll take the resistance teams that battlefront offers. Those are basically civilians.
How can I possibly reward the Communist forces for denying their opponent the fight?
Your mention of FNG brought home to me the idea that on average American troops shpould not be veterans. Am I right?
Question: Is there a difference between a casevac and a medevac? In the battlefront rulebook they mentioned medevacs, but not casevacs.
Looking forward to the next episode.
Thanks very much, @jemmy . Glad you liked the episode and the V&V game and the Podcast. If you’re talking about the USMC vs. NVA, part two of that video should be going up next week.
AA Guns: Yes, PAVN (NVA) and NLF (VC) units should always have some AA guns. PKMs at least, DShKs probably (especially NVA), 23mm or 37mm cannon if you’re really ready to kick the hell out of some helos.
Flames of War (Team Yankee: ‘Nam) Vietnam works for Vietnam … if you’re careful and selective in what kind of game you run. The city games you mention definitely work, especially Hue, Saigon, Bien Hoa / Long Binh, and Ben Tre are some good examples and candidates. One Stalingrad thing NOT to copy … the Germans were utterly unconcerned with collateral damage or killing civilians and they pushed into civilians. The Americans were sharply restricted in these regards in most of the battles (Ben Tre being the infamous exception).
Hotspots are not my idea. 😀 It’s from Ambush Alley’s / Osprey’s “Force on Force.”
Tunnels – these were MOST common in places like Hobo Woods, the Iron Triangle, Cu Chi, and Warzone C … pretty much the jungle immediately northwest of Saigon.
For this I will use a lot of off-table artillery. Yes, the Americans (especially the Marine Corps and certain US Army 175mm batteries / battalions up at I Corps places like Con Thien, Camp Carroll, Khe Sanh, the Rockpile, Camp Evans, etc) and yes, the NVA … used tons of artillery. The D-30 (122mm) and M-46 (130mm) howitzers were some of the best artillery in the world, especially in regards to range. Some batteries shelled Khe Sanh (for example) from Laos, another whole country. So yes, definitely off-board. For the NVA (PAVN), this was the big equalizer for not having serious air or helicopter support.
“How can I possibly reward the Communist forces for denying their opponent the fight?”
Easy. Give them a VP award for each turn the game lasts as well as for killing US figures. Give the Americans VP only for killing Viet Cong figures. Now if the Americans NEVER FIND the VC, they will technically win the game. As I make clear in the video, I wouldn’t expect or suggest the WHOLE GAME go off without a shot being fired (pretty boring in a wargame) but it does give the Viet Cong player the incentive and reward for delaying the battle until THEY are ready to engage, not the Americans. Make the Americans go out and FIND the VC, not the other way around (Tet Offensive being the big exception).
“Your mention of FNG brought home to me the idea that on average American troops should not be veterans. Am I right?”
They should not ALL be veterans. Always include some veterans, some “regulars,” and some “conscripts/novice” (??) Whatever the FoW level is below regulars. The point is, never make the Americans consistent. There were always some “cherries” in the platoon, and that DEFINITELY includes the officers. I don’t know how well FoW / Nam handles different experience levels on the same side.
“Question: Is there a difference between a casevac and a medevac?”
I think these are basically two terms for the same thing. TECHNICALLY, medevac is evacuating wounded. CASEVAC is “casualty” evacuation – the technical definition of “casualty” is anyone who is not active in your force (hence the “casual” root of the word). So Casualty Evacuation would include not only wounded, but also killed, enemy POWs, and even civilians if your Americans are evacuating them.
To follow on from what Jim has said I think you could take a few more things from “Force on Force”
1. Out of Contact Movement. Basically is an Insurgent isn’t able to be seen by any Free World Units then it can make an unlimited move so long as at no point does it come into line of sight of the enemy.
Basically this forces the Free World Player to be constantly engaging the enemy otherwise they’ll sneak around behind you or suddenly appear on your flank. Obviously for some scenarios you might limit this to “After turn 2 only” for deployment reasons but I think it can work.
2. The Civilian rules for Force on Force could also work. Three Types of Civillians.
– Panicked Civies. These just run away from everyone and block line of sight and line of fire.
– Sympathetic Civies. These function as the Panicked Civies but they’re moved by the Vietnamese Player.
– Collaborating Civies. These can shoot at the enemy and follow all the normal rules for Sympathetic Civies.
They can all be dispersed with a 4+ Roll which you could turn into a 3+ Roll since FoW is D6 based.
Good points @elessar2590 – especially that Out of Contact Movement Rule. As far as civilians go, the only thing that might enhance that rule is some kind of mechanic (not sure how this would work) that would make it ambiguous whether civilians are sympathetic or collaborating – especially in the southern parts of South Vietnam (III and IV Corps)
I liked the wee toon at the start you will be competing with commando soon?
nice to see wounded coming into gaming especially the tactical disadvantage that comes with it.
It really has added a lot of narrative to our games – as well as the tactical and military realism and required asymmetrical game counterbalance.
The logistics of the wounded will certainly put another level of reality to game’s
@zorg – It definitely causes you to be more cautious. You have to not only take less casualties, but when a casualty does come, you have have people nearby who can immediately help.
yes plus if you have get them to a recovery centre theirs the transport an protection of the casualties
We have a completed game video that shows how we do casualties, medics, first aid / stabilization checks, etc. @elessar2590 ‘s Australians vs. my Viet Cong in a Michelin rubber plantation – 1968 … how we get casualties and also POWs off the table to safety.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNYzEPhySkY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dBCV9lWGfQ
Nice videos the Vietnam intelligence twins were good I never knew skull island was part of the war till now a fab game guy’s very blackhawk downy the way things hit the brown stuff.
I’ve had Vietnam games like Blackhawk Down. UH-1 Hueys go down. Casualties. Twenty hexes over, get another medic aboard another helo and get them over to the crash site. Then THAT helo takes an RPG hit … Now we have two crash sites … etc.
some dicey times their in games