August 31, 2012 by darrell
Video Sponsors: Warmachine - Infinity
In the first of a series focusing on the winners and losers of 6th Edition Warhammer 40K. The guys look at one of those 5th edition mega-models that took a hefty dunt to its effectiveness... the Necron Command Barge.
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The most shocking revelation here is that Darrel thinks 6th edition will be around for 10 years.
C’mon you really think they’ll wait that long when they can squeeze and extra £50 out of us for the 7th ed rulebook in 5 or 6?
Ummm I’m not sure if I missed something or not But tactical Marines are only s4 and as such cant hurt the barge’s rear 11 armour. and the powerfist could almost certainly be killed by the Lord and Warscythe not to mention 99% of Overlords worth there weight outside of Imotek, Zahndrekh and Ankyayr (2 of them aren’t on barge anyway) have mind-shackle scarabs. And again unless I missed something you can only use 1 Grenade in Combat anyway so the odds of your Bog Standard tactical marines killing the Barge is unlikely.
On the Otherhand as long as you charge since the barge counts as being in base contact you could just direct your attacks on the overlord himself exploiting the low Initiave and even with 2+ armour, T5 and shackle scarabs you should be able to kill the lone lord in combat if you units near full strenth. But smart Cron Players never allow Barges to be charged. We will almost always be the one charging which is devasting
You only get 1 grenade in the shooting phase per unit. You get 1 per model in the assault phase. But I do agree with you. Even though he was nerfed in 6th, the Barge Overlord is definitely more deadly than this.
If the Lord shoots with the cannon (gauss or tesla) before charging in, getting d6 S6 Hammer of Wrath hits and possibly disabling an attacker with MSS, he would kill more than shown here.
Of course a Marine CC unit is going to take it out on the charge (in 6th almost any CC unit can take out any vehicle. they just got so squishy), but because the Barge is a fast skimmer, they wont often get to charge at all.
And even if all that weren’t true, the Command Barge is a very effective tank hunter reguardless. Sweeping attacks with the Warscythe (with Armourbane), gauss glancing on a 6 at minimum, d6 HoW attacks at a high enough S to pierce low-med rear armour, and then (if it somehow survived) 4 more scythe hits, still with Armourbane.
Krak Grenades now make you strength 6 in combat against vehicles now, and the Marines had ’em 🙁
sorry but this example is utterly bad…
why in the nine hells would you not charge the marines after sweeping over them in the coming assault phase?
@creator
yeah you missed that every marine has krakgrenades in his default equipment, they are S6 and can be used in the assphase by every model
I was under the impression that when in close combat with a chariot, your attacks went against the character riding it, not the vehicle itself.
c’mon guys, if that’s how you play your barge you deserve to have it die.
you sweep, shoot your gun then charge in. you get D6 hammer of wrath attacks. the lord can fight back (with a +1 to his armour save too). after the first round of combat sweep back over them (your a vehicle you can’t get stuck in combat) then shoot and charge back in again!
also riders on a chariot cannot declare or accept challenges.
I would like to disagree with you fine Beasts of War lads.
The logical flaw you’re making in a 6th Edition Analysis of the Barge is that you’ll use it in the exact same way you did in 5th. This is not accurate. The CCB has changed dramatically.
If you use a Barge in 6th Ed the same way you did in 5th Ed, you’re going to be a sad panda, as borne out in this video.
Things to remember though…. 30″ of movement on Turn one can still grant you a 4+ save from shooting.
If you fly over a flyer, you can do sweep attacks on it.
Doing sweeps on marines, then shooting them, then assaulting them with the Barge is still effective. Think of this. 3 sweeps will kill a marine, if you roll a “6” you can pick out the fisty guy, searge, or a special weapon (take that, melta guy), then you can snapfire the underslung gun (potential) then assault. On the Assault, the Barge gets D6 S6 hits at I10, The marines hit the barge with one attack each, lets say 7 marines are alive after the above 3 attacks, hitting on 3’s is 5 hits, which’ll net you a glance and a pen. Chances are you can take both of those, then your lord smacks them around with his Warscythe, killing two more marines. Now if the marines move away and charge again, they’ll still not likely kill the barge, the Lord will kill a couple more dudes, and then he can kill the rest of them with sweeps, shots, and an assault again, or he can go do other things.
The Barge is 180 points, with a Scythe Lord with nothing else.
Now, lets examine it’s effectiveness against non-krak wielding Xeno’s…. terrifying. Most of them can’t hurt the barge and are forced to put their attacks on the T5 Lord who has a 2+ save due to the Chariot rule.
Also, lets now look at the effectiveness of 3 of the Special Characters that didn’t get any Barge Love in the past:
1) Nemesor Zandrekh: Move him up 12″, have Obyron Deepstrike a beefy unit of … anything awesome (10 Immortals, 20 warriors, 10 Deathmarks, 10 Lychguard ) and they’ll get killing. If some poor fool assaults Zandrekh’s barge, Obyron’ll port over to kick them in the teeth, and you’ll have a scary unit of ‘crons past midfield, ready to charge next turn. Also, 10 Deathmarks Rapid-Firing their sniper shots is a touch scary.
2) Trazyn the Infinite: Wow, how easy is it for Trazyn to get off that mythical Ork Slaying attack now. Charge that barge into a unit of Boyz, kill one, and wound the rest on a 4+, oh, he’s scoring. In the “Relic” mission, hop him out, grab the relic, hop back on your ride, move 6″ in the movement phase, turbo boost 6 more in the shooting phase, enjoy your 5+ jink save on your AV13 vehicle.
3) Imotekh: He’s got 4 attacks that re-roll to wound and re-roll to hit. He’s got a flamer that gets Wall-of-Death hits if anything assaults your CCB, and he can initiate his staff of destruction attack from the hull of the Barge.
The Barges are used differently now. It’s a subtle change that made them different in 6th. Play more games with the CCB and enjoy the rewards of smart play.
My favorite so far is Anrakyr insta-gibbing broadsides on the charge he got off on Turn two (30″ + 12″ + 2d6″ is a lot of inches) (S8 AP1 attacks hitting on 3’s, killing on 2’s).
Also remember, Sweep a Vehicle, assault another Vehicle… Tasty, near guarantee’d to kill two vehicles a turn.
I thought all close combat attacks were against the lord and not the barge as it’s a chariot
they can target either
the info about the passenger counting as in base contact with all the enemy models is understandable as an addition to the standard vehicle-assault rules
Well is the annialation barge still useful? You can always make them out of the box if that is the case. 🙂
yes absolutely, I run 2 annihilation and 1 CCB usually and they are absolutely worth it
as long as quantum shielding is up 🙂
you skim ’round the board and zap the scoring units of your opponent and hope for lots of 6’s on the to hit roll for your tesla to really hurt
You need to take advantage of the rules here. Being a fast skimmer you can easily avoid the large squads, while the small 5 man squads will be destroyed by a sweeping attack, then shooting, then charging. Or you could go after vehicles as I believe the scythe has Armourbane.
I know only one thing from all this. It seems blood confusing what this CCB can do now in 6th edition. I’m lost 🙁
I would charge the barge then gettting d6 hammer of wrath
then annihilate the squad with the war scythe
They are definately a lot weaker in 6th, largely as the sweep attack has to be done in the movement phase which means within 12″ as the flat out movement is done in the shooting phase. They still can be effective but they are much more limited due to range. In addition I believe characters on chariots can fight challenges. Hammer of wrath is also less effective against most units with a half decent armour save.
Oh with regard to killing the powerfist which someone mentioned that can only be done on a precision strike outside of a challenge assuming other marines are in base to base combat.
I really like the input given as a whole by Darrell and then the string of replies there after. However, I don’t agree with everything is now in the crapper save the 10 man unit of tactical marines. With there standard strength 6 krak.
Sure if we were to step to the 6th. edition rule set with only our lists and style of play birthed from 5th. Then OK- its a wash
I mean what I fail to see is a change of strategy or mind set in regard to the new rules. I think 6th will do fine after all of us as a whole push past the learning curve.
I wouldn’t shelf the dreadnoughts and rihno’s along with the command barge’s just yet…
I am certain we will continue to see a flurry of FAQ’s
6th has done what a good rule revision should do which is shake things up, I think all the units @dawnpatrolchapter has mentioned still have uses are still fieldable. If anything I feel Rhinos are more useful, with different tactics.
Just because they still have uses doesn’t meant some units and armies have gotten weaker, and some stronger. The Command barge is one that has gotten weaker, but can still fulfill a narrow specific role – hunting small elite units and vehicles. If that now remains the best choice for those roles is questionable.
@dags
Well said and fair enough…
However just put alot into my command barge. So really don’t like creating a high output for something that is now sub par.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-oembed.jsp?format=json&url=http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/408184-.html
Great Videos but is the audio for anyone else extremely quiete??? I have a nice sound system and a good pair of headsets and I need the volume maxed out to hear them talking.
One thing, the Sweep attack rolled a 6, which means you have a precision strike. You’d be dumb not to pull the Power fist guy.
But still, I’m glad I didn’t get around to buying those 3 more barge kits like I was planning. I’m very happy with my 2 Annhiliation Barges though!