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GW Sues Chapterhouse SHOCK!
December 29, 2010 by beerogre
Well... maybe not so much of a shock...
If you've been watching the antics of Games Workshopfor any length of time, you'll know that they are renowned for being ninjas with their Cease & Desist orders, but this time they've followed through and initiated legal action!
However, you may not be so aware of the work of Chapterhouse Studios. Chapterhouse are the purveyors of "after sales parts" for some of the mainstays of the Games Workshop 40K line... you know... heads, shoulder armour, tentacle things, weapons... and lots more.
These parts are cast in resin and can be super-glued to your existing 40K models to personalise them a bit and save you having to break out the modelling putty yourself.
But what do you think?
Do you have any experience with Chapterhouse products... or do you prefer to do your own conversion work to your miniatures?
Do you use the parts from any other manufacturers and what do you think this means for those smaller producers who might have products that can be used with other miniatures lines?
Why not drop a comment below... but please keep things PG... we know how these subjects tend to polarise the community pretty quickly!
BoW Andy
Well Tyranids for an example can’t really be described as being completely Games workshop’s idea (I’m talking about Aliens here by the way lol) so I don’t think Games Workshop should be able to attack other people for stealing ideas when they do just the same.
lame. CH had some cool extra armor kits for space marine tanks. It is kind of funny how GW is being so touchy with copyright stuff, i mean ever seen the movie aliens or read the Dune series? but whatever they have the Lawyers and they need to protect their empire especially here in the states where the economy is crap and sales are probably down. at least FW is slowly putting out kits similar to the ones on the market from indy suppliers. I just hope GW is’nt TOO brutal to the guys at chapterhouse they seem like nice guys.
No big surprise really! GW is a company and wants/needs profit; without profit there would be no Warhammer!
So from that perspective I can understand GW:s actions. But on the other hand; miniature wargaming is a business that is also a hobby and as such needs a strong support among it´s customers/followers.
A gaming company can´t make money in the same way as Volkswagen, Unilever and IKEA. You need dedicated customer´s who are willing to spend money on a regular basis and who want to develop their creativity using your products. And here it starts to get interesting because it is quite likely that the same people who buy upgrade kits from Chapterhouse also buy even more GW models to use with their Chapterhouse products.
If GW wants to get rid of the likes of Chapterhouse they should make better and more upgrade kits of their own! I think it´s stupid to sue CH; not because it´s legally wrong per se, but because it´s bad business for everybody!
GW needs it´s enthusiasts and should take better care of them. There are other hobbies out there after all…
Completely agree with you!!
In last 5 years there´s kind of a feeling among all Warhammer fans along the World, either on Fantasy Battles or in 40K, and it´s that Games Workshop is day by day less hobby and more businness, and that´s not bad at all but seems they´re forgetting that even is businness you need to have happy customers or they will look for similar choices…
couldn’t have put it better my self!
I actually had a pretty lengthy conversation about these kinds of kits not from this particular supplier but basically the same and we were saying the only sensible thing for GW to do (because after all they are a business and there is at the top a very greedy rich person how wants all the money in the world from the profits of his company just like any other business) is to a 1 stop releasing codex entry’s with out models or 2 release the models them selves take tyranids for example almost every unit can have a mycetic spore as a transport so common sense logic and business says release the kit but GW doesn’t
but the strange thing is that although the big guys in the company do this kind of stuff the front men the shop assistants who i won’t name or locate them for the sake of their jobs tell me to look into these suppliers cos their better than theirs some more subtle than others here are some examples
“well your asking me for the best solution for what foam you need for your battle… force you need to look for some foam for your battle… force”
“well you could build your own”
“pftt don’t think so”
“or you could check out these guys”
their some of the many encounters I had all these were followed by don’t tell any one I told you or words to that effect
and well don’t even get me started on the vicious circle that is the GW price rise
our sales are going down lets put the prices up
oh I don’t know why but are sales are going down even more lets put the prices up
oh I don’t know why but are sales are going down even more lets put the prices up
oh I don’t know why but are sales are going down even more lets put the prices up
oh I don’t know why but are sales are going down even more lets put the prices up
oh I don’t know why but are sales are going down even more lets put the prices up
oh I don’t know why but are sales are going down even more lets put the prices up
oh I don’t know why but are sales are going down even more lets put the prices up
oh I don’t know why but are sales are going down even more lets put the prices up
oh I don’t know why but are sales are going down even more lets put the prices up
all this time people are buy second hand or simply just not buying at all and if you ask me it better to have lots of customers buying low or even remotely reasonable prices than a few customers buying way overly priced goods
any way please respond openly and i would like to here any more story’s like mine
Just had a quick look at the chapterhouse website to refresh my memory. Frankly its a miracle that GW legal didn’t beat them upside the head sooner. The website clearly aims to make a profit from someone else’s IP without permission, and they have made no attempt to hide it (A “K” instead of a “C” in the word Chaos/Khaos for example….). If GW knows about someone breaching their IP, if they want to keep their IP status they have to do something about it or risk losing control.
I don’t agree with everything GW does and over the last 15 years of playing their games they have made some pretty questionable decisions, which is a large part of the reason that I now play with a much larger set of rules systems made by other people. (Firestorm being the current favorite) But I do love their models and on the whole they are right at the top in that department.
Because I have come down on the side of GW in this particular argument no doubt I’m about to be flamed into oblivion. But at the end of the day chapter house have chosen to pee into the wind and are now complaining that they got a face full.
@longfang “chapter house have chosen to pee into the wind and are now complaining that they got a face full” LOL
I would say there’s points to both sides but I would say your right about the naming 🙂 there’s no beating around the bush on their site 🙂
Exactly. There are plenty of other companies selling “hammers for sci-fi marines”… Starting a company and selling “thunder hammers for salamander terminators” is a bit stupid and just asking for GW to stand up and notice.
Yeah I agree with lloyd. They have to protect their unique products but also they need to encourage the community. Having said that longfang is definitely right about peeing in the wind lol!
It’s a thorny issue… with my limited knowledge of the law… I would assume the problem here would be “piggy-backing” sales by using GW names and diluting the GW brand by associating their own products, rather than simply making compatable products.
For example: I have in front of me right now, a box of the new plastic British Infantry from Warlord Games (which are fantastic BTW 😀 ). There are many parts in the box that could be used to augment some Imperial Guard models… heads… weapons… backpacks… ammo belts… etc.
However, I have no doubt that GW would have no claim against Warlord, by suggesting that they are infringing on their IP, as Warlord don’t market their stuff for use with GW products… they’re WW2 soldiers after all!
Let’s face it, [nearly] any 28mm multi-part model can be used to convert or upgrade a GW model. The question is, where do you draw the line…
BoW Andy
P.S. Oh… I just thought of something else… the Warlord Games minis I have are going to be converted for Secrets of the 3rd Reich using metal heads from Westwind Games. What’s the score there?
Curiouser and curiouser! 😉
There’s a huge difference between what Micro Art studios are doing in producing non-specific robed legs that just so happen to fit snugly into the underside of Space Marines and Chapterhouse are doing.
Chapterhouse’s stuff flaunts the trademarked intellectual property all over its stuff, I think GW has right to whine about the use of the use of chapter icons as much as Nike has to whine about cheap trainer manufacturers stamping the tick all over their products. It’s not about Chaperhouse infringing on their ip by marketing their products at 40k conversions, they’re straight up stealing GW’s ip.
GW have done some pretty shaky stuff legally and a lot of it I can’t agree with (Forcing the W:AoR forums to change their name because they used “Warhammer” in their domain. Seriously?), but I think they’re totally within their right with this one and I’m surprised it hasn’t come sooner.
On the one hand I completely understand GW’s desire to protect their IP, after all if they don’t take a stand soon people will start manufacturing wholesale marine models etc which will undoubtedly hurt GW.
However the thing about Chapterhouse and other companies is they don’t do whole models, for the most part they do bitz for conversions, or the models people are making are things GW haven’t and don’t seem to want to do(Thunderwolves anybody?)
Far from costing GW anything these things should encourage sales as people who have wanted to build certain styled armies and haven’t had the skill to do the tricky conversions now have an easy option which might make them go for it. Hell I’ve been planning to make a Deathwatch/Sternguard style unit for a long time but the lack of combi weapons(2 in the commander box and 1 in the sternguard are all GW do afaik) means I’ve never got round to it. But with chapterhouses amazing magnetized ones I’m tempted to go out and buy some more models to make one, and since my SW and BT can’t use Sternguard it would probably involve buying a bunch more stuff to make a small vanilla force to use them in.
I would say that’s right @bigbri I have chatted to some the design guys over in GW HQ and they didn’t mind people creating accessors for their models (that’s not GW official view, just of the record).
It’s when companies produce a full miniature that’s very similar in design and advertise it using actual GW brand names (or GW imagery) that rubs them up the wrong way and that’s I can understand.
If you make accessories that work with GW products but don’t blatantly ride on their product promotion then I think it’s ok. So I cant see anything wrong with saying “we make Sci-Fi Marines shoulder pads” that sort of thing.
This to me is the most reasonable take.
As I understand it it is the Heavy Assault Walker that is being taken to task as it is very much Tau in design.
TBH I don’t see any fundamental diference in being up front that shoulder pads are intended for a given SM chapter or by inference, eg Scribor’s very nice Angels Shoulder Pads. Let’s face it we KNOW what they are intended for lol
This company failed in the part that they were using registered GW names on all their products and that was just asking for trouble. If you’re going to build up a company selling after market bits call your products by a different name.
I scratch built a Mycetic Spore and sell them in the local area but I market them as an Alien Transport Pod. Everyone knows what they are and what game system they can be used for but I wont be backing myself into a hole calling them by a GW name.
Props to them for making the bits GW fails to produce. EPIC FAIL on their company foresight.
I understand GW wanting to lay the hammer down, they didn’t register the GW brand name of the items that was clearly from GW’s games.
I mean some of their products are nice yes but not registering is a pretty dim witted move on Chapterhouse’s part.
Personally I’ve never used them, not sure if I would use a studio like that I prefer to convert my own stuff or get some Forgeworld stuff, mainly because they are GW registered.
So far, everyone here has a good point and a decent argument on whether or not Chapterhouse screwed up. The problem, when making a product in a hobby where someone else pretty much cornered it, is that you have to be careful in what it looks like and how it’s named. Otherwise, you can get hit with copyright infringement or IP theft.
There are many models out there and most of them can inter-cross with each other. The gray area, is whether or not “you”, the company, made it first. If not, then you have to be careful. The problem, is copyrighting what you have made.
Making “bitz”, is something ANYONE can do, as long as you don’t use the name of the original Companies name, or of their product, in ANY way, unless you have permission.
Example. Fan films. Specifically Batman : Dead End. It used 3 different IP’s!!!!! It was also a professionally done film, with named actors and a decent budget. The difference, is that it was FREE. Many fan films survive, because they didn’t try to make a profit off of someone elses IP. Chapterhouse did and that’s the problem. Once you try and make a profit off of someone elses IP, without legal consent, is theft. Named “slightly” differently or not.
And to think they recently displayed a converted model with a chapterhouse shoulder pad on it… see the latest blog entry showcasing Dark Angles. You can see one of the figures in the gallery section of Chapterhouse’s website.
Someone correct me if Im wrong but I read that part of the problem with UK copyright law is that if you dont defend your IP then you lose it.
I personally think GW must realise the bad feeling this causes amongst the community (they probably do read about themselves quite a bit!) but legally they have no choice.
Its either defend your IP at every step of the way, or lose it completely so everyone starts knocking out cheap rip offs of your games (though “cheap might” be nice 🙂 ).
I don’t think they lose it, it just loses all credibilty if it is not defended
Yeah, cheaper minis would definitely be cool…
Also, conversion parts are a necessity if you want a great looking army that will stand out : the GW troops are all the same, alas, since it’s cheaper to make… A tank is a tank is a tank, a 40k building is a 40k building is a 40k building, you get sets of completely identical sprues for every batallion and some vague ornaments to differentiate them, all made in plastic that’s often masking crucial details… Even though it’s better compared to what they did years ago, thanks to the progress in plastics and engineering, the unique characters and heroes are the only thing really interesting to paint in the range, IMHO.
I undestand they have to defend their ground, money-wise, but there’s more to take into account :
– Most of the “alternative” stuff (that I’ve seen) is actually better in quality and sculpt than what they do. It’s resin, it’s detailed, it’s something that’s obviously lacking from the GW range… No wonder they sue. They should be green with envy, not putty.
– I’ve never actually seen any “alternative troops”, or a rip-off of the games, orf the troops themselves, of the rules… only alternative parts. You still need the GW ox to build them. I don’t see it as a menace, I don’t think GW should, either, although I could be wrong, as I haven’t seen everything that’s on the market these days. If anything, it helps GW sell more of their basic kits.
– Whatever you say about GW, they’re the “face” of the hobby. They’re the most popular ones out there. They’re bound to attract that sort of thing… From what I saw, although it’s not so true with Chapterhouse, what’s been produced is more of an Hommage than a rip-off. And if GW reacts and try to defend their copyright, they will pass for the “bad guy”, every time, even if they don’t really have a monopoly. It’s not about right or wrong, it’s just about law… But in this case, I don’t think law is good for the hobby.
– They can afford to sue, they perceive a menace to their bank account and their niche market, so they go for it. Maybe even just to make an example. It’s understandable, albeit agressive. But wouldn’t it be better and more profitable for everyone if (and I say that because the thought is just occuring to me) they actually sold licenses to small companies to produce those “spare parts”, on the condition that they do not produce whole troopers ?
– Finally, maybe we don’t know the whole story. Maybe they’ll settle. Maybe they tried to already. Maybe there’s more to it than what we’ve seen here, a few shoulder pads and a spore-vagina-thing… I don’t know.
My point is… In the short or long term, commercially, is it better to spend money to have watchdog lawyers guarding your brand at all cost, or is it better to allow others to exist in order to sell more of your products ?
I’m not sure of either strategy… It’s a fine line, I don’t know about the situation they’re in, and I’m sure they know their business better than I do. The purse of games isn’t infinitely deep, GW boxes are very expensive, and maybe they just don’t want anyone to spend money on other people’s miniatures.
It’s been discussed at length (and by better, more knowledgeable people) what GW is doing to the hobby with it’s perpetual and demented price increase, what rights is has to do so, why, and if it’s acceptable or not… It’s been said many times that this practice is bad for business, but it’s obviously not too bad since GW is flourishing.
All I know is many people would prefer they sell cheaper minis and allow for the truly good stuff that’s not from their company to exist as well.
In my area the GW staff have no problems with me using add-ons from other companies (provided that they are attached to something I bought from GW) and I can only assume that most people within the company feel that way. The problem is that if GW gives an inch, people will take a mile. I’m sure many people who work at GW do not want GW to sue Chapter House but quite frankly I don’t think the company has a choice, if they let Chapter House slide then other people will really start to screw them over.
Just my opinion 🙂
Its like in the supermarkets, you see Tesco brand “Cheese slices”, what you dont see is “Dairy Lea replacement cheese slices”
I see this as being no different to the companies that produce aftermarket turner parts for cars.
Someone like Air Power Systems in Australia makes a range of upgrades for the Nissan 350Z, they make no bones about the fact these parts are specifically for that car, clearly using both brand and product name and imagery to clearly indicate just what these parts are for. Doubly to that, some of these parts actually required research to be done on the factory standard equipment.
Nissan in this case could pursue the matter in a similar fashion. Aftermarket turners infringe on a lot more IP than Chapterhouse ever have or would. The key difference here is that Nissan and all the other auto makers see the opportunities for then in free advertising.
I still cannot believe that GW cannot understand this potential. I realise they need to protect their IP, but they go about it the wrong way. Just think…..you a total layman, never even heard of wargaming in any capacity. Your surfing the net and somehow randomly stumble across a site like Chapterhouse’s. You have a look around and think ‘that kinda looks cool’ and do a little more research to find out what it is all about…..that will lead you directly back to GW.
These small ‘aftermarket’ guys are doing both GW and the hobbyist a favour. GW get the odd, random and indirect free plug. The hobbyist gets access to stuff that GW quite likely never had any intention of ever providing.
if it’s true that GW, at heart, doesn’t want to sue Chapterhouse but has to. Surely there’s a way to both increase the spread of the hobby without infringing on the little companies like Chapterhouse.
Why not look into how much business CH is doing, if the demand is high enough, offer to buy them out. I had a quick look through their site, it’s not bad. I suppose it would be rewarding them too much, but if you bought them out and added them to an “extra bits” studio within GW then the hobby continues to grow and the IP isn’t plagiarized.
win/win?
Not that my knowledge of business is perfect but Chapter House is a LLC business, this means that it cannot be bought on the stock market. They must be sold directly from one stockholder to another (I’m about 90% sure thats right) and I don’t think Chapter House likes GW very much so I don’t really think that would happen.
Anyone else seen the ‘Defence Fund’ that Chapter House has started? Now that I find pathetic.
No surprise that GW went for them
Id rather see GW do a deal with them rather than (most likely) shut them down…but who knows whats gone on behind closed doors
GW needs to protect their brand. Some companies pay a licensing fee that allows them to manufacturer and promote their products so everyone gets a piece of the pie.
Regardless if you like Chapterhouse or not, they legaly have no legs to stand on.
I’ve looked at GW site in regards of the legal stuff and what they have copyrighted:
TRADEMARK INFORMATION
Adeptus Astartes, Battlefleet Gothic, Black Flame, Black Library, the Black Library logo, BL Publishing, Blood Angels, Bloodquest, Blood Bowl, the Blood Bowl logo, The Blood Bowl Spike Device, Cadian, Catachan, the Chaos device, Cityfight, the Chaos logo, Citadel, Citadel Device, City of the Damned, Codex, Daemonhunters, Dark Angels, Dark Eldar, Dark Future, the Double-Headed/Imperial Eagle device, ‘Eavy Metal, Eldar, Eldar symbol devices, Epic, Eye of Terror, Fanatic, the Fanatic logo, the Fanatic II logo, Fire Warrior, Forge World, Games Workshop, Games Workshop logo, Genestealer, Golden Demon, Gorkamorka, Great Unclean One, the Hammer of Sigmar logo, Horned Rat logo, Inferno, Inquisitor, the Inquisitor logo, the Inquisitor device, Inquisitor:Conspiracies, Keeper of Secrets, Khemri, Khorne, Kroot, Lord of Change, Marauder, Mordheim, the Mordheim logo, Necromunda, Necromunda stencil logo, Necromunda Plate logo, Necron, Nurgle, Ork, Ork skull devices, Sisters of Battle, Skaven, the Skaven symbol devices, Slaanesh, Space Hulk, Space Marine, Space Marine chapters, Space Marine chapter logos, Talisman, Tau, the Tau caste designations, Tomb Kings, Trio of Warriors, Twin Tailed Comet Logo, Tyranid, Tyrannid, Tzeentch, Ultramarines, Warhammer, Warhammer Historical, Warhammer Online, Warhammer 40k Device, Warhammer World logo, Warmaster, White Dwarf, the White Dwarf logo, and all associated marks, names, races, race insignia, characters, vehicles, locations illustrations and images from the Blood Bowl game, the Warhammer world, the Talisaman world, and the Warhammer 40,000 universe are either ®, TM and/or © Copyright Games Workshop Ltd 2000-2010, variably registered in the UK and other countries around the world. All Rights Reserved[/quote]
That’s a lot, and a lot that Chapterhouse have shot themselves in the foot with.
Here’s all 6 pages of their legal stuff
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&pIndex=0&aId=3900002&multiPageMode=true&start=1
That is indeed a big list.
However, I’m not a lawyer, and I assume you’re not either, so people should not confuse “Legal Policy” with the law.
There are a number of items on that list that are a bit generic, for example —
Fanatic — The word and the idea have been around a lot longer than games that include the idea.
Inquisitor — I’m pretty sure that GW did not invent inquisitions or those who carry them out.
Warhammer — Again the weapon has been around a lot longer than the game.
“and all associated (…) names, races (…) from the Blood Bowl game, the Warhammer world, the Talisaman world (…)” — Certainly some of these are unique to GW, but Dwarves, Elves, Orcs etc. are not.
However, their unique “GW look/style” is probably something that could be defended… again I’m not a lawyer. 😀
I suppose, it would depend on the context of the use of the above terms.
As far as I know, anyone can sculpt and sell a miniature of a “Fanatic Dwarf Inquisitor with a Warhammer”… but I would expect a “Fanatic Dwarf Inquisitor from Warhammer©” would ring a few alarm bells.
BoW Andy
Its ridiculous theyre getting sued, cuz theyre making things that GW dont.
Another main poin tho; I just checked them out there and I think theyre resin moulds are terrible.
I wouldnt ruin my GW (plastic) models with these! They might look in place with some of the GW metal models that arrive twisted and battered and inaccurately molded, but nice ideas anyway. Definately shouldnt have been sued.
Oh yes, I agree… Chapterhouse shouldn’t have been sued, but their stuff is still crap. i wouldn’t put it on my table.
Maybe that’s why GW sues them… Perhaps if they did quality stuff, they’d offer a deal. Who knows ?
But a lot of their stuff is exactly what GW make. Most of the Marine shoulder pads are direct copies of GW stuff.
Sometimes the big guy is beating up the little guy. But sometimes the little guy is at it then pleads “look at the big man beating me up”
Oh, Sorry, I hadn’t seen the plain shoulder pads on the CH website. I spoke hastily : They are doing crap, they do copy GW stuff, and they don’t even change the names. They should definitely be sued… Even though they have some orginal products as well. The marketplace will only be better without their company…
However, I hope GW doesn’t resort to sueing companies that actually do great, well modeled products.
what is GW actually sueing for though vialation of IP ?
GW has the legal right to defend their IP. While I feel they can be heavy handed at times, they still are well within their right to push a suit. That being said, if CH would just have taken some simple precautions, this would have never happened.
I agree.
As told before, Scibor and Dark Yakuza also do the same as Chapter House, and also here in Spain we have Game Zone or Avatars of War… But they solve the IP conflict by changing the names!!!
If they do a Marneus Calgar, they only name him: Space General…
While some of their stuff isn’t great the Chapterhouse “pre-heresy jump packs” are very nice. I would have thought a bit of a rewrite of the website would have been all that was required, I wonder if there where any cease and desists that were ignored?
Unfortunately the biggest surprise is that it has taken GW so long to take action. Hopefully an amicable arrangement is still possible as fewer choices are to the detriment of all gamers.
Wait… If you mask your obvious IP brake you are doing better than not masking it? Beside that, IP is IP and you could not blame GW for defending their one… But, you can blame then for being so dumb when doing it.
Processing those guys is just dumb… Do GW sells a official model for Nids Spore? Do they sell Iconographic shoulder pads for each chapter? We know that they dont… Anyone who buy a Nids Spore is planning to at least buy a Carnifex. And a guy who buy acessorys for Salamander will buy lots of Marines to aply those acessories…
GW would had show a lot more of brain if they had done something very different, lets say: an official autorization to this guys continue they line (with special clauses of “quality control”), that would be nicer, and would make them gain some points with a community of hobbysts that are not enjoing his face anymore…
Thats why, when i think about a Brettonian army, i dont think in GW models, but in converted models from other companies…
This just shows that GW is working as a bully in the world of wargaming. They are a large company and they need to see that this company is selling things that aren’t available from GW, and adding to the GW line, seeing some of their lines makes me want to collect a different army just for the 1 or 2 models they create for it.
From my understanding from a legal stand point GW is in the “right” as they aren’t open licence, but all this will do is stop innovation for great models to add to the table and show new gamers what is possible, which, in turn, will inspire people to create more flavoursome armies and increase GW’s sales as more people would be joining and expanding the hobby. This kind of case shows why the average life span of a new gamer is 18 months and not a matter of years like it should be.
I have had a look around the CH website all that really is owned by the GW is the carnifex and space marine chapters. All there other stuff is hidden with really confusing space combat wolf hammer or dragon/salamander shield or something what are GW going to gain from sueing a small new company that promotes many of their other models.
But I think the true reason they are sueing is that maybe some of CH’s kits are actually what GW will be releasing in the future and thats why they want them out of the way so that their boneswords and tervigons are sold to the max this could also explain why they are only just sueing now. Sneaky GW .
Its interesting that everbody is saying that GW are being heavy handed. After all these chaps are hardly likely to be really hurting GW. At the moment…. Where is the line though? Shoulder pads OK, Meltas OK, Marine Legs? Bodies? At what stage is it not OK? One company can do it and not cost them really. But 3? 10? 50?
The reason they are going after them is they feel that it has to stop the precedent.
The other point is that these chaps are making money from somebody elses work. Thats the basic idea of IP. The reason thay have made the stuff so blatantly designed for GW stuff is they know it will sell better. Why? Because GW have invested a lot of cash into making 40K the most popular wargame out there. Employing a lot of artists, painters, writers and game developers to create the world and IP that makes the game popular.
Final question. Do you think they’ve already had a warning?
yes I believe they got a cease and desist letter last year
games workshop were robbing other peoples ideas way back when they were just a shed amazing how silly this stuff can get makes me laugh
christ im sure they didnt write lord of the rings.
was some geezer in the black country werent it lol
I would love to see the lawsuit for this case. The lawyers will be pissing themselves with all the talk of jump packs, space marines etc.
here’s an idea, how about they embrace other companies. thank god Chevrolet doesn’t sue Edelbrock for making parts that work on Chevy cars, or hot rodders would all use the same crap and never have a chance to be different. Think about it before you all cry for games workshop’s poor profit margin.
really nice topics and points brought up here guys, very informative as I had no idea this was going on nor the legality behind the issue prior to reading up on this subject.
Id have to agree that GW should be able to reserve the right to keep their intellectual property, but chapterhouse should have followed suit like micro arts and others by just making the modifications, but selling them under a general name which anyone who’s half intelligent would know where to put them…!
Prophecy ? http://chapterhousestudios.com/webshop/news/29-dooms-day-is-near
Bottom of paragraph.
Did somebody look into the future.
Not more than 24 hours ago I was thinking how can CH still sell stuff using GW IP so loud and clear.
I fully support companies creating upgrades and other goodies for my favorite hobby but as other stated before me, they should avoid using names and material that is clearly in violation of IP. Mentioning the scale and a very generic word like alien or space elf etc. already makes it more than clear we are talking about 40k. I believe CH should use this kind of names to describe their wonderfull creations without taking any risk.
On GW now. I know it is a large company interested in profit and they don’t care much about what really inpired the tyranids or the death korps etc since they managed to copyright them but honnestly.. When your stuff is so clearly inspired by others’ (alien, tolkein etc.), when you tank are all ripoffs of WWI.. when all the names have been taken out of my countrie’s ( Greece) ancient history and mythology… well… it is a bit frustrating when they do all this fuzz about their IP.
My humble opinion…
Is it a full lawsuit or just a C&D order for now? Chapterhouse can probably stay in business with their more generic things like the spore pod and heads but drop their more risky offerings like that doom model or some of the rhino armor.
I don’t think theres anything wrong with selling add-on parts for gw models but that doom/zoanthrope was a step too far and I’m unsure on their rhino/carnifex add-on kits since they have an intended use with gw’s product(but dont outright replace it).
I think it was the large walker model that did it.
instead of sueing them why not ask CH to become a branch and work together?
and why not sue Pig Iron Productions… they have lots of Death Korps Of Kreig conversions kits?????
Now don’t get giving them any ideas! lol
As mentioned it was the walker that is apparently being targeted.
Posted on Dakka:
http://207.41.16.133/rfcViewFile/10cv8103.pdf
however have just noticed a mention of FW and conversion bits.
To me, the whole thing smacks of removing competition using IP protection as the means..
I would like to know if GW have approached CH prior to taking legal action, asking them to remove specific wording from the website and stop producing the Walker.
Thats it suggest other targets
GW do have the right to sue them they are using GW models in there photos and GW names in item decripstion (put model for scale only) and (convertion bits for scifi super soliders ) then GW can’t sue you
For once (and I can’t believe I’m saying this), GW are totally right. Chapterhouse’s blatant disregard for IP law has been their own undoing. Let’s be honest, if you invented something and every tom dick and harry started ripping off your designs to make a quick buck, wouldn’t you be pissed off? Yes they may be producing bits that GW don’t currently make but who’s to say that in 6 months time GW won’t want to release that product. Yes CH do make some reasonably good bits but ripping another company’s IP is just plain dumb.
I’d imagine there have been countless cease & decisit orders that have gone ignored too which only compounds the stupidiy. Playing cry baby with their “defence fund” is just plain sad.
Indeed. GW need competition. They have no god given right to be the only maker of plastic 28mm fantasy and Sci-Fi figures. But Chapterhouse just took the piss. Mantic are an excellent example of how to go about it to my mind. Find the areas that are far game and go for it.
God-Emperor… Navigator… Imperium… Chapterhouse…
The Estate of Frank Herbert should step in and settle it for all of them.
The list of trademarks Games Workshop claims is ridiculous.
“The Chaos device …the Chaos logo…” By this, I presume they mean the eight pointed star that was used by Michael Moorcock in his own writing years before GW was founding. Frankly, to make this claim makes a mockery of all IP law. They can’t have it both ways.
Stupid ‘flu.
That should read “…before GW was _founded_”
Not sure if this has been pointed out, but sometimes GW fails to put out extremely necessary parts for their armies. Lash whip and bone sword comes to mind as I play Tyranids. If GW does not fill the need of its customers…. I did not want to hand sculpt 27 lash whips and 27 bone swords for my warriors. I am 39 I don’t have that kind of time anymore. So I went third party and was pleased. GW could have had my money if the just made a weapon upgrade sprue and sold it with in a few months of the codex release. GW was at fault for my going to a third party. At fault for leaving a huge whole in their model line.
The alien stuff I don’t see how they could really get a law suit on that, the marine stuff is a bit more iffy. When they leave obvious wholes in their product line they only have themselves to blame. I will continue to use third party products when they continue to not release obvious parts needed for their own products.
HMMM… HR Giger has as much right to sue GW and Chapter House as GW has to sue Chapter House. At least as far as the Alien/tyranid model bits go.