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What makes a Table Top Game Successful?
November 1, 2010 by dignity
So I sat down with Brian from Doremicom to record an RTD (Round Table Discussion) all about what makes a Table Top Game Successful. My own take on this (as you will see from the vids that will come out is that almost every factor is important, and since recording its becoming more and more clear to me that attention to detail is pretty key)
Anyway i would like to throw the discussion out to all of you here and get your thoughts on this (perhaps the industry will listen too 😉 )
Iv'e invaded the RTD group here: //www.beastsofwar.com/groups/rtd/forum/topic/what-makes-a-table-top-game-successful
What's you thoughts?
BoW Warren
haha Nice going Warren! 🙂
Personally the one thing that REALLY drew into the hobby is actually.. the hobby. just seeing the gorgeous looking models and how they looked on the table is amazing. Thats the reason why i bought my first models in the first place. Then after that I started dabbling into the rules. But first the Models and the look of them…. just have to work. I agree with Warren when I play or when I set up on a field of battle I do see a movie of sorts where its all alive and vibrant.
But unfortunately through time, that factor wears off somewhat and thats when the rules of the game keep refreshing the experience for me. But then a new Codex comes out with new miniatures and you start looking at different armies. and the whole thing recycles over and it keeps this awesome hobby alive for me.
I completely agree with Warrens points on the hobby to gamer split. When i first started collecting table top figures, i loved the stories in the rulebooks. For example, the idea of a being like Nagash being at the pinnacle of necromantic power, and being able to summon hordes of skeletons to destroy the living. This made me want to go out and buy as many miniatures as possible so i could represent this. I spent a long time painting them before even looking at the actual rules, and when it came to playing a game against my friend, it made my imagination run wild with the idea that i was creating my own new story on the tabletop.
I agree with exile though, that whilst now, quite a few years on of collecting, i still get some enjoyment from the imagery of the game, it is the rules becoming tighter and more enjoyable that make me want to continue playing.
Excellent round table – looking forward to 2/3
The hobby is key in my opinion. without cool mini’s and people who take the time and enjoyment to paint them well the game falls flat on its face. The point made about grey plastic armys being pushed around tables damaging the games was copletely correct.. spoils the imagiation side of the game… so to sum up.. without hobby painters/player the games die.
Cool video. I really enjoyed the debate on the various questions. I wonder what Darrells opinion would be on any of those questions? Probably 10 on rules and 0 on the hobby side and I might agree, but I personally think its even a bit more complex than that. When I was young I got “addicted” to the hobby and nobody I knew at the time did. My brother would reluctantly play games with me just to get me off his back. I thing if somebody is going to be interestid in the hobby they just are.
I agree with Warren of the idea of layers of rule complexety. I think war machine have done a good job on this. You can have very fun small games as well as the more complex big games. 40K has streamlined the rules made it easy to play big games. This encourages people to buy more which I think is unfair for kids.
I also believe that a model should represent exactly how it should perform on the battlefield. Ita annoying to see a monster statistically been able to be brought down easily by a regular troop.
I realise I might have gone on a bit of a rant but there are just a few of my own personal opinions about the hobby. I could probably go onn more. Again good video, cant wait to see the next.
I agree – sometimes a model will look so amazing and yet the rules let it down. So nobody wants to use them. If the rules are to allow you to recreate an epic movie [spot on Warren] then the models and the rules must come together to do that. I lost a massive 8 hour game the other day, but after a titanic fight it all came down to a hero rush for the objective. It was such a cool ending in true movie style, I didn’t mind losing, it was just the being part that counted.
I heavily agree with Tonyponyf. 40k and fantasy are both quite easy to learn, and the games are quick to play. BUT all of the tricky work is now off the table, in building lists, organizing tactics and formulating strategy.
I do love the ‘movie’ feel as well (go Warren). The narrative behind a mission and the history of your army is alot of fun. Gotta love the fluff.
A truly great game means that when you follow the fluff/spirit of your army it performs at it’s best. Each army should have an unique feel about them. Otherwise you might as well have blue and red counters…
I just want to say thanks to Beasts of War for getting me back into the hobby! He’s right about the internet really getting people into or back into it. I had a half @ss painted army for 10 years but it wasnt until I started watching Beasts of War that I wanted to make them look really good and learn to paint. Also wanting to play the game again and acually understand the rules. If it wasnt for them I dont think my army would be as complete and well played, I acually think they would be boxed and forgotten about by now. Thanks guys!
I totally agree with Warren, The hobby side is what drew me in…
Really good video, think Warren stole the show there, the other 2 didn’t really seem to have much to say. I enjoy both parts of the hobby, I’d feel daft playing with an unpainted army. And the fluff is a major factor, but also the look and ‘feel’ of an army. God knowns that’s the only reason to play Necrons at the minute.
Also it’s cool to see people agree that Britain is good at something, for a change
Completely agree with jukeboxjoe.
Warren was the funniest and more enthusiastic.
I’m in 100% agreement about the need for a fanbase. Without the feverish enthusiasm from both hobbyists and gamers, that make up the community, I doubt there’d be much of a hobby at all.
That bring said I do think advertising is important. What drew me into war-gaming was my first White Dwarf (issue number 177 and for only $6AU back then), what drew me in was a fantastic battle report between a 2000 point Eldar and Space Wolf force. After I read that at least a dozen times, I’ve never looked back. Though if it wasn’t for my random selection for reading material at a newsagent, I never would’ve known about the hobby.
So is this supposed to be an ESPN show for warming?
I think what will really make a table top game grow is to add sexy babes in the stores playing the game. Hell, young men buy cell phone plans just because some hottie says its great! Or make the stores that sell the game more adult focused, like have a bar in the back.
I would love it if I could get a beer between games. 🙂
Some interesting points in the video. For my money, I think the ‘hobbyist’ element of wargaming is very important as it is what I do for the long days between games, but the discussion is what makes a tabletop game successfull in the marketplace, and for that you do need the gamers who are going to shell out for whole armies at a time. I also think it’s probably fair to say that most people fall between the two poles.
On the point of the importance of an exisiting fanbase, I think Mantic are a really interesting example. By aligning their initial model releases with armies in exisiting games, they created a buzz within another company’s exisiting fanbase (‘At last, a skeleton horde at a reasonable price!’ for example). By building a fanbase for their minis in the context of other people’s games, when their ruleset launches people will already be paying the company some attention. I really think this is very clever. Rather than dumping out a whole game system in one go, if you want more minis for your exisiting armies you can just take that element, or if you want a new game for your existing armies, you can just take that element, or go the whole hog and dive into everything. It will be interesting to see if this approach can make their tabletop game a success.
First off I have to express how happy I am to see TonyPony up on this website. He is brilliant and has loads of great information to share with the beats of war community. I was not impressed by the interview questions. I’d like to see more of a round table discussion rather than a prepared interview. Thats where these guys will shine. They know their stuff, let them talk. Please work on making this a more fluid and natural talk rather than some simple questions.
I think Warren really did these guys a favour in being in their show. The production value at Beast of War is heads and shoulders above the other two guys… Also, the family at Beast of War makes it pretty interesting and balanced… the other guy’s channels are lonely rants 🙂
It’s an interesting question. Not sure I completely agree with any of the panel members, but least of all Mr. Ponyf.
n.
🙂 Warren you stole the show!
Good interesting vid, it was the hobby side that drew me in.
love vids like this. Good work Warren. Smashing the stereotypes of war gamers intelligent conversation regarding why we love what we love. Community is key, simple and effective rules. with great models. As much as I hate the G.W prices, I have to admit, there minis are great.
I think the biggest thing is the friends and opponents if you have alot of people that play its alot easier to go at it and have a good time
I have to say three years ago I didnt even understand what table top gaming was. I had a friend when I was in the military introduce me. I saw the models and thought they looked cool. But without the fluff and a good involving hobby I would not have dove in head first like I did. I think spending hours and hours on a model makes you want to use it and show it off. Without the hobby It wouldnt even be on my radar. Also people are good at diferent things, and that makes the guy who cant game but can paint able to shine by showing off his models, and the guy who cant paint but who can game, able to rock the tournament scene. Sorry bout the long post.
So he decided not to glue on the second arm, because he couldn’t put a weapon option on it. Y’know the more I hear about Darrell, the more he reminds me of my Uncle Jan, looks similar too except with no mustache, an unbroken nose, and different hair color.
While watching this, I sat down and glued together my dwarf warhost from Kings of War… and it got me thinking about Mantic’s strategy of kepping their prices low to make a big army affordable and realistic.
Now, there have been many cheap games that soon disappeared, but I recall none of them to have had such a big appearance on the internet. It’s one of the key elements in nowaday’s gaming community to show off your stuff, especially in such a small (relatively, but still small) community that can also be quite harsh and rejecting towards new concepts and games. The internet is what is helping Mantic to reach their costumers and for me, I have to admit that it was BoW and TTGN who woke my interest in the game and finally led me to buy an army and start building and playing.
It was great fun to meet the guys at Spiel in Essen/Germany and I do wish them the very best.
Bears for dwarf cavalry!