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The Weekender XLBS: Would You Survive The Apocalypse?
September 21, 2014 by warzan
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Stayed up all night with a bottle of wine waiting for the XLBS!!!
Should mention I’m located in the USA, so I didn’t quite pull an all-nighter.
gods.
Oh and in case your interested my personal favorite zombie survival equipment are a hammer and a shark proof chain mail suit if a great white can’t bite through it theres no way a decaying human can
Hey guys, great laid back show. I would love to get in on the D&D game. Google Hangout would work or might even be incentive to fly over. Loving the direction you all are taking the show. Dawn and I are doing research on model building here at Walt Disney World and hoping to meet with some model fx builders and get ideas to send to Studio 1.
God scenario would have to be Cthulu 🙂
I wouldnt mind paying a litte extra to keep the xlbs flowing. As for the money currency.
I dont mind either way. I can imagine that usa might want to have $. Im an older europian and am use to the different currencies before the euro….
On the modern war game question (and accept this is not everyone’s view) – I am very uncomfortable with them. I’m a teacher who runs games clubs and have taught a fair few forces kids. I don’t know why it would feel weirder doing a tabletop skirmish set in Afghanistan that a PC game for example (though these also leave me feeling a bit squeamish) but it just would somehow.
One idea about the reenactment thing as zombies versus military and then you get beyond the issue of it being too soon.
It changes it from reenactment into something a bit less touchy and something very different. Of course it might be even less respectful.
Probably a bad idea.
Aliens gets my vote.
Hey guys good show! and would love to see the ‘gods’ end of the world.
I remember years ago there was a game on the PC that was a version of the end of the world that was angels and demons came back for one last battle with humans left in the middle, problem was we had all left earth for other planets to the angels/demons were left a bit confused when there where no peeps around.
As for modern wargames I have no issues with them, but with modern re enactment it does make we a little twitchy.
I left the armed forces 18 months ago after 12 1/2 years, and for most re enactment I have no issues at all, in fact its rather cool, but for Iraq 2 onwards it doesnt feel right. Now this is just my opinion and not meant to be a soap box or anything so if I offend I apologise, but to me re enactments are about wars and conflicts that are over, and by watching a little known TV program called ‘the news’ it seems to me that it isnt over. Now that isnt me wanting the war to carry on, its just with so much insurgency/civil wars and terrorism over in hot and sandy parts of the world it doesn’t sit well with me re enacting stuff that is happening right now.
That’s a very good point about ‘it has to be over’!
I really like this point of view. And it’s great to have such an understanding of peoples feelings when looking in to such ideas.
not a problem, happy to be of service
Good point, I love the whole re enactment thing. But here in the states its mostly the civil war between the north and south( and some on booth sides think its not over yet ). Again you all have a great many conflicts to pick from, we do mostly American war of independence , war of 1812, French and Indian war , and Civil war. Modern wars are a little uncomfortable, I have family that did 4 and 6 tours their , and family that now has to go back to fix the mess we left behind , I pray everyday that no one goes and we settle this over a big table top war game ( wouldn’t that be Grand ). Thank you for your time and my little rant, thanks.
People actually care what currency they pay in? Erm…why?
Also, concerning raising the price for backstage, I’m totally ok with that. You guys do a good job and I think it’s worth the money. However, I don’t think it’s right that people who subscribed to you before a certain date gets away cheaper than new subscribers. That’s no solidarity. I think we should all pay an equal price. Just because you sign up for something for a certain price doesn’t mean the price can never change. Or did you guys at BoW honestly plan to NEVER EVER increase the subscription cost for “the founders” as you put it? That’s unrealistic and not kind to new subscribers. Instead you might give existing subsctibers a few months, say…6, where they get to keep the old sub cost before the new one replaces it. That way they get to feel special and have plenty of time to ponder whether your excellent service is worth the minuscule price hike or not.
I would worry about a price rise putting people off of subscribing. Would growing the number of subscribers be a better way of raising revenue? I am loving BoW since discovering you guys. I get more and better content than a games mag for about the same price.
As (recently) Ex Forces I wouldn’t have a problem with modern re-enactors. They are there to educate and do some great work. They would probably be more suited to a static display rather than re-enacting a battle. I’m sure The tank museum would be interested in some modern re-enactors for their tank fest days.
I also don’t have a problem with modern games and have seen a few about now, I just don’t think that they grab peoples imagination in the same way. Maybe we are waiting for the right rule set to come along? Oh and some nice 28mm miniatures!
Hi,
Not sure if it is just me, but i can’t get the video to load using either Firefox or Chrome on my mac.
Thought i would mention it incase there is an issue
Cheers
Toby
Modern re-enactment… What a first world problem.
I can understand doing vikings or romans and barely even WWII… But modern?
We have a conscript army. I did my time, and I have ZERO interest in putting that crap back on.
I have ZERO interest in seeing some spotty kid play-act in my old kit — except when I see one, I think he’s in the army for real because that’s by far the most likely case.
And I have ZERO interest in playing with toy guns.
Don’t you guys have National Guard or Territorial Army or something similar you could join if you like that stuff? I realize everyone doesn’t want to make a career of it, I sure didn’t, but isn’t there any part-time options available?
The difference between “playing soldier” and re-enactment is primarily on what role a re-enactor can do. As said somewhere above it can be an educational tool. As in the UK at least joe-public has very little exposure to military history beyond some TV channels and the news.
I found the main reason I do re-enactments (particularly static displays as mock battles are just eye-candy for people to see explosions and hear loud noises) is to show people that what you see in a video game is nothing like what the real soldiers have to endure. I wear the uniforms respectfully and try to put across why the uniforms are the way they are, how it has changed and what the men of a particular unit experienced.
I understand ex-servicemen, like in your case, just want it over and done with and there is nothing wrong with that. You all have lives to live beyond wearing a uniform and being in some shithole in the middle of nowhere with people wanting to kill you. The problem is that history forgets the silent. And as traumatic as the last 11 years have been for military servicemen and women the less information and background us historians gather up now then the less we will have for the future beyond the unreliable news reports and the failing memoires of a generation that will become too old to pass on their experiences.
I wish no disrespect to you maxxon, I just wish to show my perspective and leave it at that.
John Thank you for trying to save us from forgetting modern history. It is a noble thing you do, but I just talked to my nephew who did 2 tours in Afghanistan and 2 tours in Iraq all as a combat medic. He is a doctor now and wants the world to heal , but thinks its ok for as you say history’s sack . BUT no freakin way for running around do paintball. I to do not want the world to forget , especially the bastard politicians that sent our people over there to fight for oil Iraq. Afghanistan we did for vengeance and that is a little tuff to rap around still. Thanks for the time and another rant.
Pepsidan , I think in my heart of hearts that there are two ways of covering modern warfare history. One is based on education, wearing or at least displaying the uniform and giving plenty of insight into what we know of the more recent conflicts. The second is unfortunately relying on the News, which no historian or history enthusiast should take as a reliable source.
The problem with airsofting and paintballing teams who wear modern kit is that they can sometimes look so convincing they create a grey area to people who are unaware. My main gripe over airsoft teams wearing modern kit is they tend to lean towards doing “special forces” which, if I was real SF, would offend the hell out of me. I think they can tend to glorify what they are trying to represent. And in my mind that isn’t right, but they have the dual element of making people feel odd when it comes to modern “representation” (lets take re-enactment out of the equation here as mock battles are a different thing and purely for entertainment)
I think a historians job begins when a war breaks out and doesn’t really end. It may sound callous to say, but if we don’t gather information while it is still “fresh” and relatively easy to obtain then we will find in later years that such events can be misrepresented. WW2 is a classic example, not many people cared about ww2 in any serious manner until it became popularized through the movie industry and HBO’s notable contributions, but in 50 years will we really know as much about Iraq and Afghan? WW2 was less controversial and information was more widely available through newsreels that ,by modern standards (FOX, BBC etc..) had less reason to hid the more grim details. But what will we know about 2003-2014 by 2030 or 2040? My blind guess would be not much more than we do now, unless we gather every bit of info and equipment we can now and show people even a smidge of the reality of it without looking to the news for information.
To end this rant (I know… I hadn’t planned to rant but here we are) Doing modern era re-enactments does feel a bit unethical, however, I did one and the response was very positive which I think shows that people just want to see the kit up close, and ask questions. And if asking questions was a bad thing then I wouldn’t have spent time gathering my uniform, picking a regiment to represent (4 Lancs by the way, because I worked with their army cadets for a time) and wearing it out to displays with the confidence of knowing I could handle any negative responses, and luckily there have been none so far.
Ok, for re-enactors to wear the stuff I wore in Bosnia – no objections.
Price rise – fine by me.
Apocalypse – zombies please.
As for justin hugging and cradling a .50 – that was a bit terrifying, to be honest.
Each to their own. You might say the same about wargamers!
Hi.
Good show. I always thought re-enacting was what it said in the name, to re-enact battles or times of a certain period, not just to wear a costume of the period. A re-enactor becomes a person from the time and enacts what went on.
Keep up the good work
That kind of price increase is a very minor thing when compared to the content we get out of it, let me know when you do it an I’ll cancel and re subscribe.
You have to do the gods everything else seems to have been done at one point or another. For inspiration try James Lovegrove’s Pantheon book series a go great fun little man verses gods stories.
great show.
About the cost of being a BS I personally would not expect to pay the same year in year out, all costs rise. Subs for mags go up after a time. So if you decided to increase my sub then that’s fine as long as I have the choice to cancel (which I do).
Hi guys. Happy with us currency, it gets converted anyway from my bank. Alien invasion would be my pick for RPG.
Regarding modern warfare reenactment; my opinion is its just too soon for me to feel comfortable with. Even WW2 should be handled with respect and care as it directly effected the lives of people who are still around today. Personally speaking, my grandfather was killed during WW2 and I have very mixed feelings about anything WW2 related. I don’t have a problem with WW2 movies or reenactment, as long as it’s done with respect, but I feel a bit uneasy about turning WW2 into a game of toy soldiers (why I could never play FoW).
If I feel slightly uneasy about a war that ended almost 70 years ago, then I can only imagine how sensitive an issue the wars of the last 20 years must be for some people, and that’s before you even up the whole can of worms regarding Middle Eastern politics, the legality of certain wars and religious sensitivities involved.
I’m 100% ok with a price increase. As I live in the UK I have no valid opinion on offering subscriptions in other currencies.
You could auto raise it upto £10 and I would still be happy to pay.
But I am lazy if it more than ticking a box that is right in front on the home screen I do not do it ;-p.
Just want to say THANK YOU for bringing me back to my first love of RPGing and wargaming . It brought back brilliant memories of massive WH40K battles where you only spoke in character of your chosen factions race ( Marines: imperious upper class English arrogant mixed with extreme SS nazi overtures . Orcs that comedy accent GW puts to Orcs: we arrahh dahhh boyz. Army: south London wide boys or rank yorkshire accents. Eldar : soft voiced- ethereal or in a fey way. dwarf grough or low, slow yorkshire (for army or their commands only. Ratlings ( for their commands only : high pitch, squeeky . and so on) . And still Dark angels from when they were black .
Thanks I found you after I demoed a wh40k 6th edition but before I started buying- you have introduced me to the much better, sleeker , broader, more fun and relatively cheaper side of the Hobby .
Happy Sunday!
You forgot Alien option No4 – Nids!
For God apocalypse, I think it’s time to militarise the priesthood and create our own Grey Knights 😀
I buy at least two wargame magazines a month and none of them are as cheap as my monthly subs on here. If I had to drop any of them BoW would be the last on my list as checking in on here is now pretty much part of my daily routine.
The re enacting I must say I’m uncomfortable with anything “modern” which is a pretty loose term as it is very relative to our individual ages. What some people view as history others see it like yesterday.
All my wargaming has been tabletop. I have not had the opportunity to play an rpg so I would be keen to see how one works
if you want to dig in a bit more about modern reenactement, you should check airsoft websites. They are not reenactors per say, but some do both airsoft and reenactment, and there are quite a few “geardos” who really like to have their kit as accurate as possible.
I bought myself a 2005-2008 british army kit from afghanistan when I was in England and now I collect russian ones (got my hands on a bullet proof helmet, @warzan you’d love the scifi look of these).
need some edit option here ! :p
As for modern wargaming, I have ultra modern miniatures to play force on force, USMC, royal marines, French paratroopers,talebans, russians …
And have had no problem at all with my friend currently serving in the french army. He enjoyed playing the game with me and we even re create operations he was part of during his deployment (Afghanistan, Ivory Coast, Mali, Central African Republic …).
My father served 39 years in the french army, no issue playing with him modern stuffs as well. And a fair amount of the airsoft players I know are current or past serving personnel.
it’s just the same as Call of Duty or Medal of Honor. No one asked if it was too early to play these games as far as I know.
on the god apocalypse, surely if you you tell them that you don’t believe in them then they should vanish in a puff off logic as in Hitch-hikers guide.
on the zombies, thinking of fortifying a place lots of traps an escape route and near water that is safe to get to.
on alien invasion, we’re screwed
on rise of the machines, we’re screwed
as an ex-service man I have no problem with the to soon concept of re-inactment
WRATH OF THE GODS! Everyday of the week. But guys seriously, you are sitting in a TANK and talk about ice cream vans for the zombie apocalypse. I know it is not so convenient with 1 MPG and break downs and ammunition and so BUT ITS A FREAKIN TANK.
And no, gods can not be killed. They can only be pleased. My idea would not be gods wrath targeted at humanity but at other gods. And we are just the pawns in their game.
Don’t forget for wrath of the gods wise you also have all the cthulhu and elder gods from Lovecraft that you could draw from aswell.
I’d love to see justins reaction coming face to face with Cthulhu, Nyarlathotep or Hastur.
I’ll second those who view modern re-enactments as a possibly bad idea. Intrinsically it just feels wrong. I have an interest in Napoleonic and AWI re-enactments, so for me, why wear khaki when you can wear the Redcoat! 🙂
I wouldn’t fit in a redcoat 😉
You’ll never please everyone, so If you wanted to do modern re-enactment I would say go for, those people who will enjoy and learn from it and going to come along and enjoy and probably learn and more than likely want to come again, Those people who say its wrong or to soon will more than likely not come and watch so why “spoil it” for those people who want it by not doing it at all.
I spent a short time in the army when I first left school, I didn’t go to war or on operation but if I had I would still support modern re-enactment and games as the majority of people who do it, watch it and take part in it will respect those that do it for real.
To those people who object to it, what about movies like black hawk down, Zero Dark Thirty, Lone Survivor, Act of Valour, the first three were pretty big hollywood movies, is it to soon for these to be made? What about all the war films about WW2 that were made during and after the war, was that to soon? It’s all a matter of personal belief, So please don’t spoil it for those of us that would like it and enjoy it. Sometimes it just reminds me of that kid with the ball who doesn’t like the new kid that just moved in so he takes his ball and stops everyone from having a kick about, Don’t be that child, Let everyone have their fun.
I agree to an extent it is all a matter of personal taste. But who’s going to ‘re-enact’ the opposition? Dressing up as Saddam’s Republican Guard or the Taliban and running around with rifles, no way that doesn’t feel uncomfortable – ex-military or no.
A subscription increase *reaches for the unsubscribe* hahaha got ya. I’m cool with the subscription change as I’ve been with BOW for roughly 3yrs and have loved everything and very happy with the shows etc etc.
The apocalypse – zombies and robots have been done to death (but still enjoyable) the Aliens War of the World type tripods – creepy, or one you missed Invasion of the Bodysnatchers type aliens – you have no idea who can be trusted are they human or alien spies??
The Gods is a tricky one as most companies go for Lovecraft cthulhu mythos which doesn’t interest me – but an omnipresent God would be an interesting concept how would you deal with that? Not a lot 😀
I totally agree with @hegemongary but more on that in a moment. Let’s start with the easy stuff first!
Backstage price increase: As a current subscriber, I would happily opt-in to an increased subscription fee. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford to do so without much worry and since I enjoy the content, I don’t mind spending a little more to help it grow.
Star Wars Pocket Models: Although I’m not a massive fan of that particular product line, ANYTHING to do with Star Wars is awesome in my books. Good on ya, @oriskany
The Terrible Revelation That Warren Might Be a Prepper: I read an interesting viewpoint on this recently. If you have a car, you have car insurance. If you have a house, you probably have contents insurance. If you have a pet, you might have pet insurance and if you have a family, you might have a life policy.
Prepping is just another form of insurance, and rather than dismiss it out of hand, I always encourage people to assess it just like you would any other form of insurance. You weigh up the likelihood of something happening, the cost to you if it did actually occur, and how much it would cost to mitigate (if not outright protect) you from the consequences of that thing happening.
Unfortunately for us, we are somewhat hamstrung because this is an expensive hobby, so who actually has the funds for the underground bunker and a bazillion tins of beans when there are so many shiny models and games to invest in each month? But you don’t have to go full Prepper. I live in a place that is prone to flooding, in a region of the country where when flooding happens, cars tend to end up in the sea. So having a plan and *some* resources put aside, is just a practical consideration. Oh and Warren, I totally do that with my kids, too. Both of them know how to read a map with a compass, put up a tent and are aware of the rule of threes (3 hours without shelter, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food). I encourage them to look after each other and I’d like to think that if the area flooded while my wife and I were out for the evening, my oldest wouldn’t panic and leave my youngest in the house on his own lol.
GMing: I totally volunteer. Face to face would be my preference but ultimately not that practical so I’m happy to give Google Hangouts a shot. I get the feeling you are looking to have / record number of individual sessions (one evening of D&D, one evening of Paranoia etc) so even though I prefer running campaigns, let’s sort something out. I consider it my personal challenge to make you all like the Star Wars Clone Wars era, if not the films themselves 😉
Post Apocalypse – But With Gods! : I figure if Sam and Dean can navigate the war between angels and demons then Warren and Lloyd can too. I’m not sure if Justin will make it though – the ‘hangers on’ in Supernatural always get killed off!
Modern Day Re-enactment: Okay, so now, onto the tricky one.
Disclaimer: While the members of the armed forces have my utmost respect, I have never served myself so please factor that in when considering my own opinion on the matter!
I have had the pleasure of meeting many reenactors in my time, from those who favour the ECW to the excellent members of the Rolling Thunder living history group. With the exception of those I met at War & Peace / Beltring, I have encountered these individuals where their interests have overlapped with my own in the areas of LARP, airsoft, roleplaying and wargaming. In those same arenas I have also met several individuals who have been serving members of the armed forces or the police service.
What I have learned is that every individual has his own opinions on this topic, usually with the added complication that what they consider to be acceptable in one format is not acceptable in another. Sometimes those individuals were gracious enough to admit that it was their own opinion, and on other occasions they presumed to talk for everyone within their own hobby, or on behalf of members of the armed forces (even if they were not members themselves). As I have explored my various interests to a greater degree.. which inevitably meant going online to find others with similar interests – this problem was compounded even more to the point where it became almost impossible for me to make a decision about ANYTHING because I was so concerned about offending SOMEONE. This peaked during my “airsoft years” (which is not to suggest that I grew out of it or that it is something you should grow out of) where I invested many, many hours researching the USAF Pararescue so that I could put together an accurate airsoft loadout. If somebody walked up to me and asked me if I actually knew about the uniform I was wearing, I would talk their ear off and I would like to think that my information would be as accurate as anything you would hope to hear from an actual reenactor. But on some forum somewhere on the internet, the topic came up about patches. Is it okay to wear a unit patch?
Everybody had a different opinion and the problem is, most were valid from a certain point of view and ultimately my circa 2000 PJ loadout never did get it’s 58th Rescue Squadron patch or “trademark” PJ patch with white text on a black background.
So what did this experience teach me?
1: That I am sick to the back teeth of the divisions we create for ourselves within our own hobby. In almost every case, it is simply used as an excuse to legitimise something that an outsider would pooh-pooh, while simultaneously creating a new target that we can band together in hating.
Can’t we all…just… get along? 😀
2: Stop worrying so much about what other people think. On the particular topic of modern-day reenactment, if you act responsibly, show the same attention to detail as you would with any other role you would portray, and intend no offence in your form of portrayal (if in person) then go for it.
Edit: Whew, that got so long I forgot one other thing that I wanted to say.
We’ve accepted that is is “the norm” for modern day soldiers to appear in forms of entertainment that many of us already enjoy, from video games to movies to books, just as hegemongary pointed out. Of course there are people who think that it isn’t acceptable and I respect their point of view. But the idea that someone might enjoy (or create) that form of entertainment and say “Well, of course it’s okay for US to do it, but it’s sad / pathetic / wrong / unjust for YOU to do it” is something that really p***** me off, and goes back to point 1 of the “Things I learned”.
Love what you do, and feel secure in it. Don’t make yourself feel better about your hobby by pointing out how it’s better than someone else’s.
The Old Gods! I would love to GM for your group!
I’m totally OK with the price increase even for the current subscribers.
Although my currency is EUR, it is not important for me whether I subscribe in EUR or GBP.
You deliver very professional content worth every penny.
Thank you
There’s a tv show called ‘Falling Skies’ that does the whole post-Apocalyptic Alien Invasion thing pretty well. – The human survivors end up being pretty heavily inspired by the French Resistance, combined with what I think is, early American War of Independence style things plus some other things that seem familiar.
So you tend to have small bands of military and ex-military soldiers leading larger groups of civilians through the wilderness, numbering say, two to 4 hundred.
As opposed to your Walking Dead style situation, where you’ve got a guy and maybe up to 20 of his mates at most.
The idea being – I think! – that, as they have a proper military component to the group, they can actually deal with small alien patrols as they move around the countryside, but if they end up making too much of a nuisance of themselves, they know that giant death walkers, plus UFO’s will end up coming to hunt them down, where they won’t stand any chance at all.
I get the sense that the Dropzone Commander Resistance are inspired by Falling Skies, combined with Terminator.
Happy to pay £5 well worth it. Like the idea of the alien apocalypse. If it happens for real give me a call I have two shotguns!
Gods sounds more interesting and less done than the other 3. Make those gods the Great Old ones like Nyarlathotep, Azathoth and co and it will be awesome.
Great episode as usuall.
Good morning ~
Former (VERRRY former, First Gulf War-era) US Marine . . .
Seeing people reenact USMC would not bother me at all. I would just find it rather amusing, because they’re almost always a little out of shape or get details of the uniform wrong (if you don’t know, Marines are extremely particular re: their uniforms). One dog tag in the boot laces, which are laced left-over-right, etc . . . Yes, if you were a member or former member of a service being represented, you would totally notice these details and find them more than a little humorous. I know I would never do it because I’m hella-out of shape by any USMC standards and I’d frankly be embarrassed.
You see “historical” reenactors and say, “oh cool, reenactors. Check out the old uniforms.” You see modern reenactors, and you’re like . . . “Is it Halloween? Who are these guys trying to kid?” It would be hard not to be **slightly** scornful, even if only in private.
Modern wargaming: no objections at all, I think it would be really cool actually and done a little myself. I think that many of the modern settings don’t do as well as other historical settings because
(a) The wars are different now. Non-dramatic. Anti-insurgent, hearts-and-minds, limited scope, slow in development, and low-intensity.
(b) The wars are not well-documented. Much of the information is still classified. People only have what’s in the news, and no one trusts that anymore.
(c) Many of the potential conflicts today are ridiculously one-sided in a tactical sense. SEAL Team Six up against the Taliban? And you thought British vs. Italians in North Africa was bad . . . Maybe if the SEAL player has to buy the pizza?
i am a us army infantry vet i served in iraq in 2003 and 2005 with the armys 3rd infantry division . i received the purple heart and the combat infantrymans badge . personaly i game modern iraq and afghanastan in 28mm and 20mm . i have no problem with gaming the period or reanacting the period . to me all of that stuff is a shear shadow of real war is . if its done with respect . it doesnt bother me . i love seeing people wearing the stuff i served in . also can you guys do more modern gaming on this show ?
My tuppence on the topics:
Price: £5 a month? No issues with that guys; I get my money’s worth and more.
Left role playing back in the 90’s and little opportunity to play currently. Oddly enough, got a few kickstarters for RPG’s just for the ‘fluff’ – Achtung Cthulhu, Warzone, etc.
The Star Wars number looks interesting, will have to look at that in more detail.
Modern gaming/ reenactment in general – I’m ex- army and personally it’s to close to the bone. I’ve got mates still in some of these hotspots and I feel it would be a disservice to literally ‘play games with their lives’ (remember this is my opinion). Oddly enough, I think I would do a Bosnia period game now, but this would have been taboo 10 years ago. I suppose it’s just a respect thing, giving time for real life to settle.
Enactment for Modern doesn’t really interest me, possibly a bit of contempt for the known. I had a fantastic conversation with an ECW participant yesterday in. My local area in Scotland ( Haddo house), where he took me through forelock muskets, making lead ammunition, etc. it was a real learning experience. For modern, it’s too real! I’ve have enough of weapon cleaning, ration packs, etc for a few years yet, and I don’t think I’ll ever reminisce about the old days anyway!
Great show and great dialogues supporting the show; it’s really good to get varying perspectives from around the world – I never really factored an opinion from a national service country, good call,
All the best Stu
What about the Cold War era? Could that be a missing link? Or perhaps, wargaming wise ‘The Cold War heated up.’
Doesn’t that tend to be modern-ish, but not be ‘too’ modern that it might concern people as being disrespectful?
About the End of the World gaming: We’ve TOTALLY done this, starting in 1993, with a chronicle that lasted almost 20 years. You ditched the existing character creation system and made up yourself as a character in the game. I’d tell players: “Here is your character sheet. You have no point-budgets and roll no dice, just fill it out like a job application. What can you do?”
Other people in the group had 100% veto power over anything on your sheet if they agreed that: “No, man. You do NOT have a high score in sex appeal. No, man, you do NOT have understand nuclear physics.”
Originally, this was for an old game of White Wolf’s “Vampire the Masquerade” (I told you this was a while ago). When you were done making up your “character” you would leave the room and the other players would CHOOSE what clan of vampire would embrace you. After all, you have no choice in the matter. Your friends would try to assess what kind of vampire would actually find you interesting or a candidate for Immortality. Then you would come back in the room and learn your fate.
WARNING: I’ve done this kind of gaming for 20 years, it does have pitfalls.
1) only play with close friends. Trust is HUGE in this gaming model.
2) be careful, people can get really offended. I’m sad to say I have lost friends doing this.
3) It can get very personal at the beginning, depending on the ground rules or limits on the game beforehand. Let’s say the BoW group does . . . Zombie Apocalypse. The GM lets the guys make up their characters and the game begins. Horror is an objective here, so in the first session:
a) Warren returns home to find Andrea and his two children already missing. A window is broken and there’s a large bloodstain in the living room.
b) Justin heads back to the studio and finds Sam is already a zombie. He is attacked and has to role-play through the act of smashing Sam’s head off with a shovel.
c) It is the END OF THE WORLD. No one’s family or friends are making it whole. Sooner or later, as players, you’re imagining / roleplaying through the very messy ends of some very close people.
Of course, you can always have ground rules set up ahead of time. And the visceral role-playing reward is HUGE because you’re playing yourself. You have no problem identifying with the character.
Highly, highly, highly recommended, just a few pitfalls to watch out for.
Uncanny, around 20 years ago, we played exactly the same game, using the same rules, the with the same veto powers to ensure ‘accurate’ representation of our in-game selves. The only difference is that we all started off as mortals.
I remember that for the first few sessions all I had were a broom handle with a kitchen knife and cleaver gaffa-taped to one end and a barky (but ultimately harmless) dog!
Ours was based on the “Above and Beyond” article in the back of the VtM Storyteller’s Handbook, 1st Edition (1992). So I can’t claim that it was my own idea. But it made for the best RPG experience ever, and pretty much ruined us for RPGs ever after (part of the reason it we did it three times . . . WW3, Vampire, and later Werewolf the Apocalypse).
Local currency – YES
Price increase – if small won’t make much difference
End of the World – Z (of course)
No issues with £5 a month, if additional content more hobby lab with Lloyd, Romain and John.
End of the world Z’s most entertaining, although Warren sending Justin to battle the killer Dyson would be wroth watching.
I’ve got no issue with a price increase. Most magazines cost more per month now anyways.
On the modern reenactment. That is touch and go. With vetrans it would basically boil down to two things. One whether or not the individual doing the reanctment was doing so in a “respectful” manner. Two that veterans personal experiences. Some people just saw to much.
Ok lighter stuff. The apocalypse rpg. I looked at the homepage. The gods looks to be several scenarrios including cthulu, (cover)and or norse gods(thor on horse back).
The aliens seems to also cover 50’s B movies. I saw a picture of giant ants in a city with an asteroid. Hopefully it will have a robust creature/foe creation system.
Please do that foot race !!! Will be amazing lol
With respect to price – I am in the US and as long as the price states the dollar value (even roughly) that is sufficient for me. Something like “about $x.xx” .
On war reenactments of modern conflicts – I actually have significant discomfort with this idea while the historic reenactments I find very interesting. I was with the US Navy (NavAir) for six years long, long ago (just for context) and the modern stuff I simply find that it brings far too much sadness to mind to ever what to see it. WW II and older feels like remembering heroes while modern feels like remembering friends.
Well I guess the price rise is only 71p more, and you are putting out more stuff with the newsletters, so I’d be ok with that. I’d also be ok with it remaining the same price, lol. 😛
God apocalypse! Ancient gods and demons fighting, Judgement Day, cats and dogs, living together, mass hysteria! 😀
I’m of the same thought about it being a bit soon to have modern war being re-enacted. There’s a youtube channel that shows what modern soldiers do with POV footage of them out in Afghanistan http://www.youtube.com/user/FUNKER530 and I kind of feel that the re-enactment should be of things that are over, that we can look back on with a better understanding of the whole events. But while I feel that, I also think it’s still interesting to learn about what going on right now.
carrying on with what I was saying earlier, Afew years years ago I attending the British Military tourniment held at earls court and they had real regular soldiers re-enacting a patrol and contact with opfor based in afghan to show the attendee’s how things work,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1OWgiaycy8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grKD0sbyyP8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJLPvH_V858
But again it’s all down to individual people and how they feel about it, there will always be people on both sides of the fence.
A great show, love the D&D idea i imagine that would be great fun.
@warzan you could try stargates Goa’uld two for one Gods and Aliens great and funny show again.
Price Rise: Go for it, still a great deal by my reckoning
Apocolypse RPG: My wife votes Zombies, I vote Rise of the Machines
Hi guys, easy stuff first, for me I started BS as a way to get a broader view on gaming in general after I ditched my GW subscription. What you provide is both informative and entertaining; and is therefore well worth any increase across the board. Having lived in a few different countries I don’t think the currency change impacts on the people who genuinely like what you do and these exchange rate fluctuations are so small in comparison that I would hope that the product outweighs the inconvenience.
RPG wise it has to be gods, as it’s rarely, if ever, been done before. How you’re going to kick a god’s butt in a straight up fight is a totally different matter but it would be fun to see how you sacrifice Justin for the greater good (or more likely a lost cause!!)
Modern reenactment however is a tricky one for me. I think most if not all historical gamers like to go over previous battles to see if they could do the same as the leaders of old, or to test the “what if” scenario. For me it makes it one of the most interesting parts of historical wargaming and it’s what officers do in a slightly different way to practice for what may be around the corner. Military history is such a fascinating subject and when someone who is knowledgeable can bring history back to life and engage people so hopefully they can learn from it I think that this is the best part of the role of a reenactor. Where I personally struggle with it is when it is within living memory and then for many veterans it gets personal. Now I know that is not how it is intended but many of my old colleagues saw it as playing at it and that it was doing the memory of their friends a disservice. Reenactment surely is about living history, the problem for me is that I’m still alive, if people want to know about the conflicts I have been in they only need to ask and I’ll bore them senseless with my war stories. Uniforms are a tangible link to the past and a great way to get people to approach you so you can explain how and why it was used. Surely it is better to engage with your veterans and talk to them rather than going to a surplus store. Reenact those conflicts where the soldiers no longer have a voice and pass on that message.
Just for context I did 25yrs in the British Army and went to my first conflict/war (first gulf war) aged 21 and I have had the fortune (or misfortune depending on how you look at it) to have been to six others during my career. So hopefully you will see where I am coming from.
I think a little increase per month wouldn’t be too great a strain on most subscribers. Although I really think if you are gearing up to start making more general content, spending your time and resources on that, which will drive more people to the site and perhaps more Backstagers among them, would be your best bet. I know it can be time intensive, but staying in front of gaming news with new video content every day that people will turn up in Youtube and Google searches could be huge. And I like the Backstage content you’ve got now.
Um, could not let this one slip by, what is this story about you (Warren) with the Perry twins in Jerusalem…
My 2p on the re-enactment thing
I think it would only be important to remember what you’re wearing.
You’re wearing a badge of honour; some nineteen year old kid who didn’t have a lot of options, spent 8-12 months working his ass off; sweat, and sprain, and tears, and pain to earn the right to put that beret and cap-badge on his head.
Some college kid with much better ways to make money, decided to risk everything he had, his future, his health, and his life, to travel to some place on the other side of the world to enact the will of his government. He was recognized for his diligence by the stripes on his arms, recognized by his comrades by the marks on his helmet, and fearfully recognized by his enemies by the pattern on his coat.
Some father of two, with a beautiful wife and a loving family, put his best forward to protect the man next to him, took the bullet that no man should have to take, and paid the ultimate price. And when he was brought home, his brothers didn’t all attend the funeral in suits and ties, they wore their uniforms, their symbols of honour that say, this man was not of the common stock, he was one of the rare few who pick up the sword for their nation, he was part of an eternal brotherhood who live and, sadly, die for each other ; they wore those uniforms to say, this man was one of us.
I can’t say that it’s good or bad to do modern re-enactment, it’s not my decision to make; but when you make the decision, it would be prudent to think about what it means when people wear those uniforms, and if it has truly been long enough to be perfectly clear that you are paying homage and nothing more.
(I suppose, in the end, I feel if you were old enough to serve in the conflict, there was the chance to earn the uniform, and it’s too soon – but that’s my personal opinion, I believe you should guide your own actions)
I totally agree with you. When I picked my uniform I went for early Iraq War, so initial Operation Telec. But I can also do first Gulf War with a few changes to the kit.
I understand the badge of honor feelings and I have talked to a few British vet’s of both conflicts and heard some awful things. When I wear any of my uniforms I don’t act stupid or reckless, I always try to put across that people died wearing these uniforms, good people. And I never wish to earn their families, friends or surviving soldiers anger. If that happened I would consider it a massive failure on my part and give it all up in an instant.
John, I respect that you know what you’re putting on; you said in an earlier post that you display the gear sometimes and I think that’s a commendable thing, people should be educated on these things, and I think people like to know what’s in the webbing, where the ammo goes, what a helmet looks like on the inside – I truly think that kind of thing is a great service. I can’t articulate why it’s different to wear the stuff; I know you’re not claiming you earned any medals, and you’ll tell people you didn’t, but is wearing them non-verbal communication? Not for you, but there’s a type of person that thrives on that non-verbal comm, and it think they kind of ruin it for you.
I have one idea for you. Maybe a shoulder brassard. They’re used in the military to identify range safety officers or duty NCOs and what not, I think it might help a lot of feelings if you wore one that said “Reenactor” – I don’t know what people think of that, but for me, it doesn’t break the authenticity of the gear but it makes it clear what your goal is – you could even have the brassard list the period you’re re-enacting, like a museum placard on your shoulder. There are a group of ex-Mat-Techs who opened a custom gear shop in Canada and they make custom military stuff – they even make Brassards, I don’t know if that interests you, but for me, I think it makes everything very clear. (You can find them here http://www.cpgear.com/store/embroidered_brassards/embroidered_brassards.htm)
I’ve said all I really could say, the only thing more is that you are a well intentioned guy and I trust your judgement.
The movie John was talking about is Automata. It does look very good! Also I fully support a Warren vs Justin sprint off!
Please do increase the price. I have no idea what I’m paying in dollars right now, but I’m sure it’s nor enough. BoW provides great content and if you could provide more or better content for a modest price increase I don’t care at all.
I found your discussion on reenactment really interesting. I’m a veteran (USMC 2002-2007) and have known a few people who have been into reenacting and I’ve always wondered about the appeal. When reenacting battles I’ve always felt as if the reenactors are portraying an interesting historical event, but also playing at the most terrifying and awful experiences of those peoples’ lives, and I’m not sure why anyone would want to play at something like that.
As for modern reenactment, it seems offensive to me. Military uniforms and decorations, particularly those worn by US Marines, are earned and not the sort of thing that even someone with respect for them should wear without earning them. In the US there’s a big community of active duty service members and veterans who spend their time rooting out what they call stolen valor, which basically boils down to civilians wearing military uniforms and decorations that they haven’t earned. Most of those cases involve people who are trying to reap some kind of reward from wearing a uniform or claiming an award, but I’m not sure if there’s much difference between someone who claims to be a Marine Sergeant and someone who wears the uniform as a reenactor. They’re basically both cosplayers and neither of them has earned that rank or uniform, the difference is that the latter claims some kind or respect for the rank they haven’t earned and some desire to educate the public about the experience they’ve never had.
OK that’s it for that stuff. Hello Folks hope all is well with you all . Listing in different currencies that’s cool Me Likey Very Much. Now raising subscriptions fine with me you all are great and I would pay $10.00 a mouth for this stuff its better than porn any way. now Gods or Machines sorry like them booth can’t pick. thanks have a grand day .
Hello guys, a great show as always. As for the reenactment part. I believe that it is not ok with many people because the conflicts are still going on. SS forces were mentioned in the show and it is quite an issue for many people seeing reenactors running around dressed in waffen ss unifroms. Well, someone has to reenact the Germans as well. However, when comparing to modern times I can imagine people dressed for example in Iraqi army from the time they were against the coalition forces but it would be hard to see someone pretending to be a terrorist. I understand it is not reenactment in a sense because terrorists do not have uniform and standarized equipement but still… I might be wrong in my line of thinking but as I see it reenacting forces fromwars that are long over has sense from the so called living history point of view. Thanks to reenactors we can see and touch history not to mention the recreation of battles. As a professional historian dealing with the history 2.0 issues I am really giving thumbs up to all reenactment groups. Especially, if they are engaged in the community and show off their work in the Internet. For most people it is more interesting than reading a book.
As for the apocalypse part I am into the gods scenario hmmm or mzybe god machines?
zombies
ahhh Monsters Hunters International!!!
Cracking show guys.
On the modern gaming side, my club has recently got heavily into force-on-force to play games set in the current afghan setting. Personally, I find it abhorrent, I can’t even be in the room when they do. I’ve got mates who are still in and are on deployment in afghan, and every time they take ISAF model off the table, my stomach turns. It looks like a great game to be honest but I’m not even going to give it a try until the coalition forces are back home out of harms way.
The BoW crew flying around in the zombie apocalypse ice cream van ….. please god, someone with the skills model that! Sod it, you do it for me and I’ll build some terrain for you. I want to use the BoW battlewagon in Mars Attacks!
[quote]The BoW crew flying around in the zombie apocalypse ice cream van ….. please god, someone with the skills model that! … I want to use the BoW battlewagon in Mars Attacks![/quote]
A BoW battlewagon would be sooo awesome 🙂
Please, can somebody make that a reality ?
I’m ok with a reasonable subscription rise along the lines you described.
Just a thought. How about getting an occasional update from John’s Sherman restoration. Even my wife thought having your own tank was pretty cool.
P.S. I don’t have any preference for how the world ends.
modern re-enactment is a bit too soon and it kind of smacks of why not just join the TA or the regulars. I suggest sell the Sherman get either a comet or centurion and do the Korean war, you can do 29th independent infantry brigade and have scope to do several UK infantry regiments, attached royal artillery and royal engineers ect also you could have people doing the Belgium contingent or flanking American units and lets not forget Korean/Chinese soldiers as well. with Korea its not a widely re-enacted war. as a reenactor I say this take the ww2 you have so many guys portraying various units but there is not a huge amount of difference between them, a little bit of different equipment and insignia and to the general public its nice but nothing exciting them unless they are history buffs or its a unit that interest’s them. so you need something different that’s going to draw people as its different and new and makes you stand out, the guy who runs my group is famous for running scenarios so it keeps the public interested and the guys from getting bored. oh and don’t forget the real reason for re-enacting, camping out with mates and drinking lots of booze and having a party once the public have buggered off.
Comments:
Back Stage Price Increase / Currency: My native currency is USD and would love to see it in USD mainly as the exchange rate is constantly adjusting and it would make it easier to budget for, not that the BoW cost is all that expensive. For cost as long as the content to cost ratio is good I am good with it. My usual price to entertainment ratio is $1/hr of entertainment at least for video games. Since BoW usually provides at least that with the weekenders I am good.
End of World Roleplaying: I like Gods if it is like the Daemon Apocalypse. I have a feeling it will be Cthulhu rising apocalypse, while I love Call of Cthulhu I don’t need to see another Cthulhu game. I would go with Robot or Alien.
Reenactment: I am not a veteran and do not really have a skin in this game. I use to be a member of the SCA which I was fine with. I also do live action fantasy sometimes, but again can’t come close to be called modern.
GMing: I am happy to do it, I have been kicking around a scenario for years that is a blatant rip-off from a rather famous movie morphed into a fantasy setting, it should be fun for a one off type event. The only problem I have is that I am in the Eastern Time Zone GMT -4 or GMT -5 in a couple of months, so timing may be an issue.
Great show, love the tank setting and please more updates on its progress….exclusive footage as it appears from the barn maybe? Live?
Put the price up, I’ll pay. What I get is worth a lot more than I’m paying. Well it will be when we see some more actual FOW games FTW!!!
Right the serious part. Reenactment. I am a 17 year serving member of the British Armed Forces (scary number when I think about it) with experience of a whole variety of places that I am not going to list here. To my mind reenactment should be, as you say, about history and teaching; a vehicle to educate and remind people of the good (and bad sometimes) that has been done on the battlefields around the world. In my opinion it would be a bad idea to “go modern” and by that I think I go as far back as the Falklands, there are several reasons:
1. Conflicts in the past 10 years have been the most accessible for non-participants that there has ever been. The things that you are allowed to know are so easily found through the internet or shown on tv that originality is difficult.
2. The conflicts are too raw for a lot of people, and by that I mean the families of those that never came home. There will come a time in the future when we vets get all glassy eyed when someone talks about “our” wars and we will appreciate the efforts that others go to to show what happened in our time. It’s not now though. We remember, and we appreciate those that remember alongside us, but we don’t need to relive how we got here.
3. Do we need to have people pretending to be a member of the armed forces (and I differentiate that from impersonating, but I’m not sure the public can be so discerning) reenacting a battle when the armed forces put on displays with modern gear and the people that have been there? I know that the photos of John were of a uniform not seen very much now, to me it is history, but to joe public it is a modern rig and could be straight from the scene.
I could go on but I’m boring myself so how you reading it are doing, I don’t know. The only other point on this would be modern war-games; they aren’t for me but I can understand why they are played and I don’t mind them at all. But, the modern battlefield is a complex digital word. The vast majority of the work done is never seen and I’m not sure it can really be modelled well. I’ve not played any, just wondering.
I wouldn’t mind having a fixed price for dollars, euros, pounds, etc. It would make doing the checking account just a bit easier.
I’m okay with a price increase. BoW is one of the best gaming purchases I make each month and if it makes the video easier, all the better.
I’ve never done reenactment but did have a relevant experience when running a post-apoc RPG at a convention. The game was Twilight: 2000, updated to 2013 and had the players with characters who were US and British soldiers attempting to leave the Middle East and confronted with local militias. I discovered that six of the seven players at the table were recently released or currently enlisted soldiers, all of which had spent time in combat in “the Sandbox” (one had returned to the States only a week previously). I was very nervous as I’m only an armchair general and I made it clear that I wasn’t pretending to be anything more. The players were cool about it and gave me gentle ribbing about the occasional technical error, but it was an interesting experience.
Modern Reenactments, do stick in the throat a little bit.
I have taken part in every conflict / policing action since 1990 and still serve, and also a Napoleonic reenactor.
I guest the real difficulty with Iraq and Afghanistan is that the public outrage at the government taking part is questionable, though since the last policing action the public support for the forces is overwhelming, but seeing someone who haven’t been there and suffered, then reenacting with the some perceived knowledge of being there is hard to take, when ones blood and friends didn’t make it.
I get the history of knowledge, as I reenact myself, but believe books at this time will have to suffice, though a wargame depicting these events would be no problem as that is different genre.
At multi period events I have struggled with modern reenactors, as the kit worn is just not what we had or how it was used, they have tended to go for all the gucci kit and have their own twist. Where as historical reenctors in the main have researched their kit to death to get it right.
Sorry to have banged on a bit, but the wounds are still very fresh and guess the experiences are still at the fore to be ready to see it reenacted.
On a positive note, just subscribed and loving all the content on BoW and getting stuck into modelling and wargaming again.
I like the rise of the machines apocolypse, including the Warren vs Justin sprint race of course.
Raising the price is fine with me, as long as you keep up the good work. Nevertheless, I wonder about how long you’ll be able to keep the old price for enduring subscriptions, but I guess time will tell.
Maybe you could try to improve the overall backstage-feeling a bit, I sometimes struggle with the clearness, but it could be just me.
My plan has always been to pay annualy, and I have no problem with the price going up, as that happens everywhere else in RL, so I have no problem with an increase the fee.
Just happy to help beasts of war to grow!
Given the amount of entertainment and information I get from BoW, my backstage subscription is cheap at the price. I would happily pay for a reasonable price increase. The increase you have described seems more than reasonable. Hardly a day goes by that I don’t check the BoW web site. Keep up the good work!
Can’t seem to load the video at all. The loading wheel just keep spinning and nothing happens. Im on Firefox and a mac.
Hi Chaps,
Instead of having a modern warfare reenactment, you could have a Zombie Apocalypse PRE-ENACTMENT?
Not sure if anyone has already reported this but with regards to the “Gods” end of the world scenario, I just started watching Dominion which falls neatly into that category. “God” went missing, the Angels blamed humans and started a war with them. I only watched episode one but actually, I kind of enjoyed the show and I certainly liked the concept. Check it out if you want some ideas.
Hi,
About pricing like the keeping subscription fixed at time you join if possible.
RE: General pricing I’m viewing your backstage as an online war-gaming magazine, so if pricing comparable to off the shelf magazines which are generally tablet available. Then that sounds ok to me.
👻
10 years and a global pandemic later XD