Cult Of Games XLBS: Stop The Hobby Train I Want To Get Off!
September 19, 2021 by avernos
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XLBS! And then there was 3….
SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY,
Time to watch the Greatest Movie ever made!!!! I guess will I wait for my VHS tape to rewind I’ll watch the XLBS
Happy Sunday!!
Happy Sunday all. Great work by Gerry. I’m enjoying the dare devil show on Netflix and Gerry is right Frank Castle has been updated to a Afghanistan veteran but it’s very good, better than I’d expected, so I’m looking forward to starting the Punisher spin off. I’ve never had any issues with playing from an older rule book but then I don’t play tournaments where I imagine the more recent rule book would be the standard simply from a promotional point as the company responsible is probably sponsoring the tournament in some way. I play what’s in front of me and I’m happy simply to get a game with good company. I’m glad I’m not a GW player, I don’t think I could keep up with the amount of revisions they put out. New and shiny minis are always are draw but, other than wanting to buy up the Wargames Atlantic range, I tend to go for minis that catch my eye like the Warcradle Icemaiden that joined my Spartan Games minis. Warcradel grandfathered these older minis into the revised game so I was grateful for that but if they hadn’t I would have found a way to still use them.
Not seen Dare Devil but the Punisher series was really good.
I recommend Dare Devil, especially if you enjoyed the punisher, Frank Castle is introduced through the 2nd season as a client of Nelson & Murdock following a particularly busy night and high body count. Worth a watch ?
I don’t think there is a left behind as you don’t really need to move forward these days with lots of people sticking to the editions they like.
Hmm… Matte Coat. I can get behind that. As we all know there does come a time when the gloss comes out again but only after quite a bit of handling. Perhaps I might be simply Satin Sash (a rather nice material on occasion and might well be a monastic order unto itself). My downfall is in basing material at present while I power through the collected hoard of figures to gift away. I will focus on one minis agnostic game (Saga works) and press through a motif for an army. What perhaps might be a development of the hobby community now, with as many mini options as we have, is the collating of cohesive groups. Sure, you have a big fuck off dragon sitting on your side of the table. Somehow aesthetically it just doesn’t sit with the skeleton archer levy and the sea elf warriors. Try to explain away everything in the backstory to how it came together as you will there’s just no binding theme. Like a refined palate for food or drink the settling on one’s own particular tastes is the present realization for being a Matte Coat.
Knowing how much time and effort is put into the painting to get certain results might also be a reason for the Anti-Shiny. Better figure painting means more detailed effort. Want a Golden Demon/Crystal Brush level army? Well, you’d better hop right on that now and cancel your play for a while. Then, once you’re done painting, do you really want to handle the figures all the time on the table/in transit and risk wear of pigment and the likelihood of drops/breaks? Get it all done. Enjoy the goodness of a job well done to the aim you INTEND TO USE the figures (play/display). Be happy without needing to feed the dopamine kick of constant plastic crack addiction.
By the by, I wonder how many of us here might be Type 5 personalities according to enneagrams. It was a passing thought as it might the source of our collective collecting gene.
I’ve decided not to jump up to 2nd edition Kill Team…I’ve bought all the books for the previous edition and I don’t really want to rebuy then again.
I’ve gotten rid of my 40k armies in the past and I’ve not gone back apart from playing Kill Team and I don’t need to buy all the new shiny for it. I also haven’t bothered to up grade to 2nd Ed SPQR either yet mainly because I haven’t painted the minis yet. Likewise I didn’t upgrade to the new edition of Saga. I know look for rules that are either miniature agnostic or I stick with historical. One set of rules I really like is Brutality as you can literally use any miniatures from any genre and manufacturer.
I also need to get rid of a load of historical books. I write book reviews and get sent new books all the time. These are starting to pile up and I need to get rid of a load.
Is it possible to relegate the term “disposable income” to history?
It sounds to me like flushing hard worked for money down the toilet.
I suggest we use a term like “discretionary expenditure” – as that is what it really is – and we are damned lucky if we are in that position as so many others aren’t.
Every penny I spend is a penny I could save for a rainy day, spend on my family in some way, buy another takeaway that month or otherwise find a wiser use for… But there’s a point where you need to enjoy your money for your own sanity and morale to keep going out to earn more each week.
Discretionary Expenditure better describes the money I spend on tiny fighty men.
Certainly a good new phrase haha
Another great weekender. Thanks for the shout out. For me it’s getting the value out any new edition, because my gaming time has drastically reduced because of a growing family I’m not seeing the benefits of getting into new editions.
This is compounded by new versions not always being better, simply different, I.e 40k the last few editions are quite different from prior versions, are they better though, personally for me no. But people move on regardless as Ben said due to perceived obsolescence.
I’m going to settle down with warhammer 6th/8th ed, and an older 40k or OPR and let that see me out for the next few years.
Miniatures wise I must confess I love playing old editions with models I like the look of whether they are new or older purchases, though 3d printing is my main miniature route these days. I’m having a bit of a clearout but I am not as strong willed as Guillotine!
I think there is something to be said about not always buying new rules and just playing older games with new miniatures IF you need to pick up something new and shiny for sure.
In regards to getting left behind I’ve played 8 editions of Warhammer over probably thousands of games. I’ve bought all 3 editions of Age of Sigmar but played 3 games. I don’t feel left behind especially as I moved to KoW 2nd ed. Due to Covid I was looking forward to KoW III but instead I’ve painted several armies and will start playing 2022.
Similarly I’ve bought 8 editions of 40K and played maybe 20 games over 30+ years. I love the lore but don’t really like the game.
I usually just paint the boxed set, put it in a display cabinet and play other games.
Ironically I’ve been playing Morheim, Necromunda, Warmaster, Man O’War and Battle Fleet Gothic for the last 20-25+ years and haven’t needed to update any of them.
Warhammer Old World will be interesting. I doubt GW actually know what they will do with the game. There problems are that – It takes 2-3 hours per game, they buy-in is massive, the hobby time (ie painting time) is huge. Recently there’s been a massive resurgence of 4-6th ed. The reality is that those games had less models but still took 2-3 hours per game.
It will be interesting to see how GW support The Old World for sure. New miniatures? Forge World only? Bringing back the old plastic regiment boxes?
I am very tempted just to buy some new miniatures and play the old game. I can’t see it being drastically different rules-wise.
Happy Sunday 😀
So, when I bought the Indomitus box, I somehow knew that this would be my last 40k big purchase. I have played exactly zero games of ninth edition, partially due to the pandemic and lack of a community I click with. I picked up the basics of the new version of Kill Team, but working a second job now I doubt I’ll play it. I’ve decided to go through my pile of shame and complete it. In my POS I have Reichbusters full pledge and HINT:Be a better human. I love the models,but i haven’t painted a single one yet. I was in my FLGS today and there was a 40k tournament and I didn’t even care I didn’t check out who was winning or what armies were there just because it no long matters to me. I don’t know if I’m in a funk or i’ve just grown tired of the 40k cycle. While going through my pile I found a ton of necromunda stuff and I’ve painted a decent amount of it.. I love the aesthetic of Necromunda I would love to play it..but i have no one i know who does.
I don’t know if i’m fading out of the hobby or not. So anti-shiney syndrome is really appealing to me. Maybe that is the future.
The best thing can be painting up a couple of gangs/warbands for a game and then using them to teach new players. They don’t need any minis as you’ve already sorted that for them! Might be a way in with an older selection of miniatures!
Hi COGz another shitty wet Sunday Yay not.
Nice start small Gerry..
Nice paint job on Mechs John, pretty much the scheme I was thinking off for my Merc Regiment.
Tip for tracking movement mini coloured dice,no movement white yellow walk, red run and blue jump, with the no showing the to hit mod.
On the latest editions of games for me I think it depends on if its improved the game play, rather than just a rewrite to smooth out wrinkles for tournament play. I’m not a tournament player (ok I did do one but that was fror Dropbeasts to help out) I’m more a narrative player that likes to play ‘I wonder what would happen if’style game which usually has an umpire to keep thing same (or insane Gerry) which may mean I buy a new edition if it clarifies oddities in the earlier edition. What pees me off I’d a new edition that not only changes the rules but then they change all the stats of Armies and Fleets!
For example a friend in Babyon Call to Arms from Mongoose fell on an awesome Centari fleet that became the fleet to beat and we had many games tying to field Fleets to beat it but then with 2nd edition they not only changed some rule to make it easier to beat but also changed all its ship stats so that it wasn’t even the same fleet.
We just ended up writing down “Hex: 5, run” on the mech sheets. It kept it more clear instead of associating colours to movement.
Our games tend to last a couple of weeks (particularly the 10 player games)so it made life easier as some of our players were infamous for not recording stuff between weeks (The infamous Big Paul who would disappear to the toilet at end of night so he wouldn’t have to help clear up)
Oh and glad you enjoyed it@
I think with playing old editions of games the issue is always going to boil down to getting opponents. With the “nu shiney edition” of rules you tend to get a resurgence of interest in the game and it tends to gather the playerbase all under the one banner (and edition) of the rules.
Granted sometimes it’s down to personal choice. I MUCH prefer the 90s edition of Necromunda to the current unwieldy, bloated “mess” that the current ruleset is. But can I get any opponents (or even drum up interest for a campaign)? The new minis for the game are excellent, and there’s nothing stopping players using them with the old set of rules. But there seems to be a “block” in players psyche in using new minis with old rules (you’ve got to use the old minis with the old rules, take the whole “Oldhammer” wargaming scene for example).
BTW it’s nice to see the enthusiasm from John with the whole Battletech game, I always felt he’d become a bit jaded with playing games (and centered more on the hobby aspect with his interest) over the past few years. Granted games like Flames of War (and Team Yankee) ended up being a mess as Battlefront advanced the timeline to add all the latest technological toys and everything ended up being one side with 5 tanks and the other with 20 (being used as target practice by the uber kit). And that those games sort of abandoned the whole “combined arms” aspect of the period in favour of a more tank heavy, tourney style of game (which always ends up being a bit soulless to me and also ends up making me feel jaded about the games).
I have, indeed, become jaded with many game systems. It partly boils down to us having so many systems come through our doors, and having justin trying to explain to me what makes a system good… I learn by doing, and when something is explained to me I generally tune out.
So with Battletech, I loved the mechs, Ive watched the cartoon and played Mechwarrior 3 and Online. So the basic understanding was already there (as much of the tabletop games mechanics are present in the video games)
So I watched some let’s plays on youtube and it clicked. It had JUST enough tracking and management and plenty of big guns with big consequences to pull me in.
Bolt Action, FoW and team yankee will always be my sort of “bread and butter” systems. I’ve played and enjoyed the games and the miniatures. But I think that diving SO deeply into Battletech has reminded me that I’m not JUST a hobbyist. I can get a grip on, and enjoy, a more complex game. Which has been quite a refreshing feeling.
I think the new plastics and certainly the advances that 3D printing offer to obtaining the Mech minis have breathed a whole new life into the game. The old Ral Partha and Iron Wind Metals are pretty awful as a whole (there ARE a few nice minis, but most of them are extremely dated and/or suffer from inconsistent scales (where some of the light Mechs are the same size as the Heavy Mechs. If I remember right the “official” scale is about 8mm (just to be difficult). The PGI re-imagining of the Mech certainly updated the look to a more modern aesthetic (the original “Battledroids” game was just using a load of Japanese Manga robots (you even got the kit of one in the original box (in BT called a Warhammer, dunno what the original name was)) from the late 70s/early 80s.
The ONLY thing I do dislike about this modern version is that they released the Mechs in Lance Boxes (rather than you being able to buy them individually), I would much prefer to be able to buy exactly what I want to build up a Lance (mind you that’s not an issue if you are 3D printing your own). But you are choosing the play the game in the best way (using the hex maps), less argument about facing and it allows the games to playout in a smaller area (in general). As you’ve been playing MW5, have you looked at the HBS BattleTech game (it’s turnbased and a lot closer to the Tabletop game)? PGI and HBS seemed to work in tandem with the two battletech games (HBS used the Mech models from MWO, and PGI seemed to have borrowed the whole economy/missions and everything not directly involved in piloting a mech from HBS for the MW5 game).
Yeah I’ve seen the turn based game. And as cool as it is. sometimes I just need to be in the pilot seat 😉
Just put the chips down and walk away an nobody gets hurt?
What about the spray in the tin lid an brush the faults John?
It’s all the heat sink warning lights that’s why the window look pink? John.
I do like it hot 😉
Free toster upgrade option.
Does a curtain of bullets count?
Space vampires Gerry.
Happy Sunday.
Good show as ever and a very interesting discussion.
If its to simplify an improve the quality of the gaming for player’s that’s a good thing for everyone. If it’s a money grab (GW)? It’s going to turn player’s away from the games.
Quote of the day:
“You need a hobby away from the hobby guys” John said
“That’s why I drink,” Gerry said with a cheesy grin
Happy Sunday
00:00 practical tips for long trips – Gerry Can.. or bottle in this case.
10:00 Using teeth…. sounds reasonable…
14:00 JEBUS! XD 200 GBP That’s really outch. I feel horrible now for posting the KS update @johnlyons
17:00 Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!
19:15 put arrows in the holes!
23:00 “emery board” …. Why do I always keep hearing “memory boards”? oO
27:30 “wet paint” …. oh my brain *g*
32:00 playing games… weird concept. will never catch on.
35:20 FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! XD
38:00 Not worse… more enthusiastic
44:00 “Way better then the Netflix version”… I’m so glad I don’t know what that means.
52:00 @brennon the troll? Forums? What are forums?
53:00 OTT has FORUMS!? 😉
56:45 Not buying stuff…. @avernos are you alright?
58:00 Saaaaaaaaaaagaaaa
59:30 FIGHT!!!! FIGHT!!! FIGHT!!
1:12:30 medals… tanks… Tactical ballistic missiles.
1:14:30 Not being born is no excuse to not play a game!
1:21:00 CAKE!
1:25:00 A new version of a game can be better. Especially when the old version has many comments like “you need houserule this and that”. On the other hand a new version can lead to a downfall. *cough*X-Wing*cough* I don’t think there is a general rule to say “new is always better” or “new is always just for the money”.
1:26:30 Forum! FORUM!
1:27:00 matt coats… noice.
And with that the Sunday is over again… bollocks
NO ONE GETS OFF THE TRAIN ONCE IT IS ROLLING!!!!
Seriously, though… like… I can’t decide if I want off or want to drive…
I am honestly happiest with my hobby when putting together and painting a starter set of 2 factions for a new ‘skirmish’ boxed game… but there are so many, that I never get to really explore them enough with my gaming groups.. and a lot of my gaming group have much better impulse control than me and have managed to stick to their main games (usually AOS, 40K, malifaux, or infinity) for a while… so I’m the one always being like “hey, you wanna try this new X? or Y? or how about remember when Z and A came out last year? or back in 2015? Let’s try that”… lol…
I have been really good this last 2 years about building up and playing a lot of Conquest by Para Bellum.. and that has been a blast… I have a real good feel for the rules, the armies, and the lore… but sadly, only a handful of players in the area are interested because again, AOS, 40K, etc… so I can’t tell if my Shiny is more for me, or more just because I’m looking to open the eyes of the masses to all the great stuff that isn’t main-stream =p…
Happy Sunday, you have just hit the nail on the head with this show.Just this weekend i went through my shame and said right stop here. Looked at my books of rules and said time to cut them down there ones i will never ever play. The shiny syndrome i admit i have took a reality check on, so i am streamlining every thing down except for Bolt action that would be a step to far, we all need a hobby!.
Yup – I have dug through my old miniatures and I have so many I haven’t painted for games I played twice. I am determined to paint through my LotR stuff (maybe buy a few old miniatures from eBay) and dive right back into it.
Boy do I know that feeling , I have boxes full of unpainted unfinished projects though perhaps not as many as Gerry
Interesting topic! With complex answers.
First one is easy, I too am trying to cut my back log of projects by not buying more minis! I am going to unsub to all the weekly newsletters I think, that’s a great idea to cut back on sale temptations.
That said, I am feeling a pull towards Deadzone 3. I played a bit of 1st edition as my brother backed the Kickstarter but found it a little clunky and couldn’t really see a faction I liked that he hadn’t already got so didn’t buy in.
I kept looking towards 2nd edition with its streamlined rules and picked up a cheap copy of Star Saga thinking I could use the models in Deadzone! It is still unpainted.
Now I know there are a couple of local players and the new edition is coming! Is it time to buy in? Just get Star Saga painted and maybe get the books/dice? Hmm.
I have hit a point where I’m feeling a level of actual guilt over my unfinished projects and need to thin it out.
I’m ok with updating rules if the new edition is actually new and significantly different, but I don’t need to buy a book for new art.
One game that has been taunting me is Batman Miniatures Game from Knight models. In order to update to the new edition with ‘proper’ components I’d basically have to buy a new two player starter (with yet more minis) and a box of faction card decks.
There is a print and play route but I do like nice cards and a rule book I can flick through. So it becomes a question of how much do I want to throw at it to update?
My focus for the rest of the year at least is on tying up loose ends. I think I’ll be happier having some hobby closure rather than chasing the next release.
Happy Sunday lovely people!
I had similar thoughts with my Saga Welsh. The new ones coming from Footsore look AMAZING, way better than my Gripping Beast metals. But it seems a very bad use of my money and (perhaps more relevantly) time to replace painted minis seems … suboptimal. They are dashed nice though.
I am less susceptible to shiny syndrome now, but I know I am only in remission. It can flare up at odd times.
I am going back through my pile of potential. I have already sold two painted tanks and some metal models I had only got primed. I looked at the forces I have painted and the forces I had bought and planned as a project and realised that the only British forces I intend to play are a Paratrooper force and a Gurkha / Chindit force, so the Commandos need to get sold. It’s only a few Black Tree Design metals and a box of Warlord plastics, but it all adds up to more space, more potential for painting and play, and less shame / stress. I only realised during the show that I actually have a low level amount of stress attached to the untidiness and lack of space my hobby has compounded, the misspent money on shiny projects that I won’t find opponents for or get around to and the easy target my pile represents whenever I suggest being more frugal to my family. i.e. “we’ll tighten our belts, when the mountain of plastic doesn’t get added to anymore.”
I haven’t played a game of Frostgrave against an opponent. I have played a bit of solo play and played Rangers of Shadow Deep. I have spent hours painting warbands, terrain and loved every second, but I still kept buying expansion books. Then the second edition came out and I bought that. For some reason I sold that money “waste” on expansions to myself on saying the second edition is compatible with those books and they’re beautiful books and there’s still time to play games in that world.
I got Stargrave. I have a couple of warbands on the painting table but nothing played. The first expansion is out. Money is fairly tight. I am thinking of leaving the expansion until Christmas as an option for people to buy for me… But it has solo rules in, looks really cool and I have the “I wants” feeling again.
The other way that I sell the shiny buys to myself is… “You should get options beyond your army list for replay-ability”. e.g. I already have a 1000 points Japanese force, but the new paratroopers are unique enough to look impressive and marginally different to paint and they got bought with a few Warlord rewards coins and a few quid. Why am I looking at replay-ability when I haven’t played the game once with this force? Only my battle weary subconscious can work that one out.
On the other hand I am resilient to some book / rule upgrades. I have two 40k forces… but didn’t buy the new edition and didn’t get the latest codex. I have the Genestealer / adeptus Kill Team box, but even with two brilliant forces I really wanted to paint… I have not bought the latest box. Sadly the main reason for not keeping up with the editions is the lack of play and enjoyment I have got from the current versions so far and the huge price point GW sets. It’s less about resolve and making a stand as literally being priced out of their idea of wargaming. I doubt I am alone. GW pricing seems out of step with a financially struggling, post Brexit, pandemic battered player base.
I think that the guys down my local club have already said that they will continue to play Kill Team as per the last edition for a bit longer yet. I do think that I may end up getting one force up to date with the latest codex if no one will play 40k with me on the last version. If you have lasted this long thank you for reading my thoughts. If you haven’t read this far…. Well… I guess I am talking to myself. Flags, Shwords, Love Saga – Love Life, Sophia Lives, hope to see you at Salute. Luv Dug.
Really impressed you tackled this topic of the ‘shiny syndrome fatigue’ as it is the raison d’etre of much of OTT’s content to bring us news of the new and breaking events in the gaming industry.
As someone of 50 years of age I do often feel my purchases don’t represent great value as I cannot give each game or system the time it deserves to yield me value and this can lead to bad feelings of wasted resources and wasted time.
I generally chase new editions of miniatures games because in my experience many companies produce new editions to deal with balance issues or problems with gameplay that need addressing more substantially than with an FAQ, for example.
I make an exception with GW as their game design is so poor that edition changes often create more problems than they solve or they are just cash grabs pure and simple.
Having said that I am getting a grip on myself and am realising that I can revisit old games with great results, for example I played a game of first edition X-wing a few weeks ago and absolutely loved it despite never buying into the second edition of the game when it transitioned.
I understand why the economics demand companies constantly force feed us ‘consumers’ a barrage of new things to spend our money on but I am a little tired of the merry-go-round at this point.
The alternative title was “are we the bad guys” since we show all this lovely new stuff off to folks 😉
hmmm, John makes the comment about not liking the Ral Partha battletech miniatures. I, having played first edition and pre first edition battletech ( combots as they were called ) like the Ral Partha since they had a certain look and feel when i played the game in the 1980’s and 1990’s. I think that they have a interesting retro look for the future where they are, from initial games, precious since difficult to manufacture and often put together with materials in hand. Guess i just like the old, i know new techniques have made miniature making easier and more modern, but still, for battletech, Ral Partha really hit the mark in my opinion ( so, John is not wrong, but not right , since he’s only getting into battletech now, i think the old are just fine ( and always look forward to a grinder game at a game convention, easy to join, whenever and viola, time well wasted – NOT.
If there isn’t one already, could we have a Gerry Can for painting white using the artists inks? The results that were achieved on that Kingpin miniature were amazing
We shall see if the Squirrel Lord can be summoned to do so haha
it is on my list currently to do something with the inks, just haven’t decided what is the best way to go yet. Also heard some interesting ideas for highlighting white recently
I sold on all my warhammer apart from my pretorian guard a long time ago because I just never played it. Every new edition I would purchase for no real reason. Now I just have Rogue Trader. Historical is good because you can actualy finish a collection such as my Zulu war stuff knowing that no new unit of uber Zulus is about to be released. Or though they should.When the new Blood Bowl came out I was torn because the rules never realy changed until this one and I thought do I need it when I love the three editions I already have.
@johnlyons To help speed up Battletech some, try and get some movement dice. There are some STLs out there but Monstrous Makings over on your side of the pond also have them. They’re a lifesaver for tracking movement and modifiers.
Must admit I am interested to see what John and come up with for terrain when they do the lets play on Battletech, hopefully they will do a how we made it demo as well.
Loving the Battletech, stuff. Used to dabble back in the nineties but never managed to get fully into it.
During Lockdown i discovered Battletech on steam and have been rediscovering my love for the Universe.
I have the 2 Catalyst starter sets and like @johnlyons was initially daunted by where to start in such a vast space. These talks have really inspired me to crack those boxes open and have a go. Would love to see a Let’s Play!