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Gurn of the Every Other Week: Wargaming Naked
April 9, 2015 by dracs
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My army isn’t unpainted, they are in grey urban camo!
Three colours is my rule: 1: Plastic is a color, primer is a color and the black on the base is a color. 😀
Yep unpainted gaming minis are an abomination. Then again so are Justin’s painted ones. 😉
I like to play against painted armies, the whole aesthetic of the forces and a well made table is half the fun for me. However, we all have time pressures, so I often find my gaming group end up with the grey regiments when they are expanding a force.
I can live with that, its the people who have had models for years (or even one person I know, 15 years!) and never painted them that do annoy me a bit. I solved that one by buying him some coloured primer and a 200ml tub vallejo wash. There is at least some colour now.
PS, that first picture is like a poundland remake of the usual suspects.
My mates Infinity models come pre painted, he gets me to do it
Hmm wrote this in a rush a few weeks ago, I should clarify that guy who turned up with unpainted minis did it week after week, obviously when you just started you need time to paint so that is acceptable…just
As to pre built and painted that’s just cheating…lol
Also I am not precious about the method of execution, any method is fine by me…lol
I understand that time and painting minis do not always match up. But as a ‘mostly collector’ I find the pride in my army is mostly in how it is painted. I would never field an unpainted model, in fact I’ve even found myself not wanting to field an old favorite, because I’ve realized it is no longer up to my own standards. Painting minis is like training the troops, you can’t send them into battle without training/painting. It also goes to show that if you are playing against a well painted army, the ‘commander’ has put love and effort into it, and not just a big bag of money. So if I have a choice I will always play painted vs painted, and if I don’t have the choice… then maybe I’d rather just paint instead of gaming.
Speaking of painting miniatures and dice, I shudder with horror everytime I see beautifully painted terrain and miniatures having dice thrown all over them.
… first thing … who cares 😛
personally I love painting minis, but then I’m an artist, so I will always like that kind of stuff 😛
but some people either can’t paint well or can’t afford the extra cost of paints ( it’s an expensive hobby )
or they have only been playing a short time and haven’t even learned how to yet …
to get angry at someone for such a small thing is pointless in my opinion
and gives the impression of being someone who plays only to win, not someone who plays to play …
life is to short to get angry about other peoples painting ability, just chill out and have fun with the game 😉
… on the subject of dice,
… it’s always the dices fault if I roll badly, they’re just being mean to me 😛
see my clarification… 🙂
I am certainly not a gamer that plays to win…geesh if i was i would have given up years ago…
I have no issues with people’s abilities to paint either its about effort. I am not the worlds greatest painter. but to say i can’t paint so i will just not bother is just wrong. especially in this day and age where you can get a few paints relatively cheaply and a bucket of shader and be done quickly.
For those of us who are still looking at our first army and fearing what others will say once they hit the table, Thank you. My goal is to have them better looking than Justin s.
May not be much to some but it is a goal that hopefully is attainable.
I think the more strict we are on painted, the more we reduce our intake of new minis gamers. For some they gradually come to terms with painting, others never will, but the more tolerant we are the bigger the industry can get. This is until everything becomes PPP anyway lol.
Cripes, if I felt like I couldn’t play unpainted minis I’d never get a game in 😀
That is my curse…
Lloyd, have you tried HeroClix. That is prepaints
The power of skirmish level games – hardly any painting for maximum enjoyment. I think I’d done a Malifaux crew box in two days and was ready to go. Admittedly this is ‘my’ painting but it’s not of a bad standard.
Armies – I can understand when units aren’t fully painted but I do hate it when I see someone line up an army of grey against me in Warhammer Fantasy 🙁 Feels like I painted my massive Dwarf army for nothing.
BoW Ben
I’m afraid to say that I am of the grey plastic crew. But this is due to time. I wold love to have all my models painted but time constraints and the fact I love to many different games to keep everything painted before I play.
If you’re someone who does paint minis and loves painted minis, then there is a simple, three step solution;
1. Choose a skirmish game with a very small model count.
2. Buy and paint two or more opposing forces.
3. Invite your friends over to play with your beautifully painted minis on your gorgeous terrain.
This is of course assuming you trust you friends to play with your beautifully painted minis 🙂
Personally, I am the slowest painter in the world. It takes me about a day to get a single miniature painted. So mostly my army will turn up as a mass of base coat.
lol … you need to thin you paints more 😉
My suggestion is you need either more practice or someone with a great deal of painting experience to show you how to achieve an acceptable result in far less time. Despite what those intimidated by model painting think, good miniature painting is only 10% artistic talent. 90% is technique, good quality tools and practice.
Actually in our club we have games like that one person concentrates on one game and others focus on otjer games so we always have games to play with.
its no crime to have a very basic paint job on your army.. if i was inclined to do so i could have an army painted up in an afternoon.
I must admit I do find it annoying playing against people who use unpainted and plain base coated minis.
I must admit I don’t enjoy painting much but I always try to do the best job I can – albeit in a production-line manner so they at least look decent from a distance.
I’ve turned into a bit of a snob over time and will admit that I don’t enjoy playing a game against or with figures that aren’t painted. I myself suffer from too many games, not enough time. While I don’t expect or require my opponents to have a painted force, I would appreciate if it is at least fully constructed and primed.
With all the wonderful coloured primers out there you could simply prime your models an interesting colour call it done. I feel like if you’ve had the time to build the models, not priming them is pretty silly.
That said, everyone is in the hobby for their own reasons…so who am I to bitch about how you spend your time on it?
Yep dust is awsome….
To my eyes unpainted minis are unfinished minis. When i play games i want to play against painted armies because i put time and effort in to painting my minis. BUT! i don’t care about the level of painting on the army that im playing against. As long as the person has put in some time and made it their own. It shows that they care about the game and love for the army/minis.
I am personally certainly not an artist, I would describe my paint job as neat but certainly not good enough for painting competitions. But for me wargaming is certainly a visual experience, both terrain and minis must look at least decent. We do not see metal-coloured men walking around any more than we see book-shaped hills. So I have felt a bit insulted when playing against an opponent who has been in the hobby for years, and has boasted about his big new army, and when I see it there is absolutely no paint job at all. But certainly OK for newcomers to the hobby, it takes time to paint eg. 100 minis so I can allow that. And I admit there have been big battles (ie. 1000 minis on table etc) with several players where I have had a few not-quite-ready-just-yet minis in some units that I have promised to bring to the game. In big games you don’t even notice it as long as majority of minis are painted in each unit.
To play devils advocate, I wonder if people are spending lots more time building the plastic models so don’t have as much time to paint
hmm possibly takes me bloody ages to put those plastic whats its together
Building miniatures is actually part of the hobby I really enjoy. The downside of this is I have a lot of built, unpainted minis.
Aw man, assembling is my most hated of tasks currently. I actually had a full on tantrum recently because they make me feel so stupid! 😀
“WHY DO THEY NOT FIT TOGETHER!? WHY DO THEY NOT GLUE!? I spent 10 goddamn pounds on this hateful piece of metal! GAAAAAH” etc.
*sits down and quietly plays*
Bad as assembled and primed. But using just the base as a proxy is even worse. After the first time, I go by the “What I see is What you get” philosophy; nothing showing, nothing there.
my biggest ‘gurn’ is when people say “table top standard”, as if they AND ONLY THEY know what looks good.
Yeah I agree, I have given ‘table top standard’ my own definition it basically means anything that is not display level in terms of time and effort put in ..basically it now means ” anything painted is good enough to put on the table” (so is unpainted tbh but painted is better) I’m taking it back ! LOL
I have to say I have never played with unpainted minis….they need a lick of paint on them
@lloyd fixed that gurn good!
I do like to assemble and paint my own mini’s. Unfortunately my hobby time can’t keep up with my shiny syndrome. In all my years of gaming I haven’t yet managed to create a fully painted army. For each game I play some of the units and characters are painted, but others haven’t been touched.
I find skirmish games to be a good solution to this. I did manage to create a few painted Mordheim gangs, although some of the paint jobs might be simple and not quite finished. Most of my Infinity force is painted. The unpainted ones I might try in a few games. And if they are good enough to make it to the default list they get painted.
I never curse at my dice. But I do encourage my mini’s before an important roll. “Come on guys, you can do it. Bring me the head of that dragon!”
Dust models pre painted? what no weathering, no adding better shadings and the latter is what no basing. A walker will take at least a week, minimum. highlighting the metal pistons the odd leaking hydraulics, battle weary and metal stressed. Even patched up armour. Yes Dust figures come pre undercoated and ready to be able to be played but sooner or later they will need painting surely? (Yes I know don’t call me surely.)
a fully painted army looks good on the table but no paint no game is a bit harsh, the player may not be good at painting or no time to paint other gamers can organise a paint day to help gamers to get the army’s painted to a reasonable standard?
What are your feelings about figures held together by blu-tac?
I guess this is where I differ , I hate painted minis , I am more in this hobby for the action , the drama of combat , the tactical movement of troops .
I will wash my models with ink to pick out details , and thats enough for me to be honest.
I have painted. And do appreciate models that are painted , but for me its the game that matters.
I think these days there are enough products to speed up painting. I am by no means a good painter but a primer spray some details like flesh etc and a splash on of something like AP strong tone and its done.
Do I prefer the look of painted minis? Yes. Would I much prefer the look of an epic game with everything painted beautifully? Totally. But I’m in camp Lloyd on this one and the terrain is probably more important than the minis for me.
To Redben’s point, a painted finished product can make a game unapproachable for brand new gamers in the hobby. This is the reason the owner of our FLGS opened his own store. He wanted to encourage gamers of all levels to give it a try an make it accessible. Tournaments and such should absolutely require standards on completion, but the rest of the time…..let them play.
For me there is a balance to be struck. The more fun an offender is as an opponent, the more tolerant I am of their lack of effort on the painting table.
Mostly as long as there is some progress time to time I don’t mind – and then there is the other side of the coin like tonight where the game where between 2 fully painted but well worn out armies. Both side needs some TLC – but I find it difficult to find the motivation to touch up an old horde army of 100 figures that I won’t use out side of the club and even there only for an odd game
Yeah, yeah…DAT BEARD!
I have just recently picked up painting again, and while I do agree that the armies/warbands/teams look better when they are both painted up, for me it’s most about the game. If people have fun, who cares if the minis are painted or not.
Oh, and it’s never the fault of the dice, they are just the instrument of the fickle Dice Gods. The luck (or lack thereof) is not contained in the dice, but in you Dice Gods support in you. We once had a player in our gaming group with a set of dice which always rolled high (or low, depending on what he needed). Warren’s luck kind of reminds me of him. So one day we set out to remove their mojo, with various rituals (you don’t want to know). Still, he kept rolling perfectly. So we hid his dice. He still rolled perfectly with his burrowed dice. He truly had the blessings of all the Dice Gods…
To help with the multi-coloured metal/hardplastic/softerplastic mountain I’ve started to try and at least get things primed (now a collection of various colours) and if possible move things up a scale:
0: naked – exposed to grease etc. Unfit for use
1: primed – at least not raw colour, some minions etc in Myth and similar still at this stage
2: Washed/tinted – an extra layer of protection, but at least some colours evident and shadowy recesses.
3: Washed/tinted with some selected detail/base colours: either through applying multiple wash/tint/ink colours or maybe picking out skin and metallics with paint and probably given specific washes on those parts . (Where many board game minis, especially minions will get to – no further.
4 up – proper painted to some degree or other..
With hundreds of minis coming in various packages (usually down to KS) this is the only way to stay on top of the situation!
I think I can beat rob with an incident where I used to go to a club that allowed proxy models
This worked ok til they started allowing people to proxy cardboard cut-outs for the actual models that the player wanted to take. You can imagine my abject horror when someone rocked up with a cardboard cut-out of Nagash on a chariot (both made from, you guessed it, cardboard). Sufficed to say I no longer go to that club
Re Unpainted minis:
One of my gaming friends for continuously berated for buying more minis/armies/games and never painting them – he jumps on each weekly bandwagon and picks up that army but never paints any of it, and despite his best protests black undercoated does not count as painted!
Re The mono-spotted dice roll
I have actually replaced my dice several occasions through sheer paranoia as no matter what I do as soon as I touch a dice it is pretty much guaranteed to roll the opposite of what I need! “5 2+ saves required you say, no problem! *rolls*….. That’ll be 4 dead then!”
I’m mocked (and with good reason) at one of my clubs when setting up armies for wasting my time as they’ll all be dead in turn 1!
So I can fully appreciate dice rage when it gets so bad it puts you off the hobby! 🙂
I am a bit surprised about some of the answers. I seem to have been a bit naive in thinking that those “the only proper way for this hobby is my way” times to be past. Wonder how many of those with that attitude have long working hours with wife and kids at home. And I mean that…if you have and find the time for all your hobbys (and TT is only one of them!) to be “complete”…then plz tell me your secret…and yes…I do need a good 6 hours sleep to have basic functions operating 😉
That said…to project your oppinion on “the right way” onto others is as wrong as it gets. In every part of live…and more so on the part that is ment to be fun. How would you react to someone who tells you that if you dont wash and wax your car every day because he does you should not drive on the same streets. Most likely …not very nice 😉 The difference is..he loves his car…and you just use it to get from A to B. Basicly its the same with the “painted minis only” attitude.
Be tolerant and respect that others have other priorties in the hobby than you have. By all means…do try to win them over for the thing you love…with enthusiasm and paitence. Resentment and exclusion don´t help either of you. Learn the reason someone does not like that part…offer tips and tricks…maybe even help…challenge that person…the winner has to prime the models…be creative…but remain supportiv and tollerant.
Sorry…got a bit Long here…thx for reading though 🙂
I thought you had to play at least a few games with unpainted minis so that when they die a horrible messy death having achieved bugger all you can claim it was because they are unpainted and will do much better when they have a lick of paint on!?
I love to play someone with painted minis. I’ll pick them up, roll them around in my hand, and rub the surface to get a feel for the texture. Sometimes I’ll give the arms or extraneous bits a little tug or see if I can reposition the weapon. The basing is always good to check out as well, just to see if that grass is really firmly glued on. Of course, I’m careful to drop them back into place right where they were, but gaming tables are a little bouncy and sometimes they almost leap off the table and onto the floor. Most stores have a good solid industrial carpet (unpadded), but sometimes it’s just concrete in a friend’s unfinished basement.
I don’t get to play and much as I’d like to, but when I do, you can be sure that I’ll appreciate the work you’ve done on your miniatures.
I agree with the sentiment that unpainted minis are diminishing the game experience for your opponent and are a faux pas. People with an aversion to painting and modelling can still enjoy a gaming experience so that is a poor excuse – RPGs, CCGs, board games, computer games etc. The other thing that drives me nuts is an aversion to ‘small’ games. The number of people I meet who HAD to buy and assemble 2000 points of warhammer fantasy to play, makes me want to scream. Want to play fantasy but don’t like painting much? Buy a 500 point force and add 250-500 blocks as you keep up with the modelling. 500-1000 point games of fantasy are great.
I think that you could combine these by allowing the player with the painted figures a re-roll of any dice roll he wishes (The second roll must be accepted) This then gives an incentive for painting.
I’ll preface this post by saying that I personally enjoy every aspect of the tabletop gaming hobby to some degree, I love playing games, painting minis, building/painting terrain, reading/writing background stories and running campaigns.
While my focus is on the game play I can field several fully painted Warmachine or 40k armies but more than likely will play with a mix of fully painted, half painted, base coated and naked minis in a army in any given day.
I agree that two or more fully painted on lovingly crafted terrain is an amazing experience (even more so for its’ rarity) most of the most fun I’ve had in my 20+ years in the gaming hobby have been with mostly unpainted (and sometimes half assembled) models on terrain made up of vcr cassette boxes or cereal box cardboard coloured in with crayon.
Just because you like one aspect of the hobby over others doesn’t justify anger towards those that don’t enjoy or even hate those aspects themselves. One of the best gamers I know hates painting and hasn’t painted a models in decades. That doesn’t mean he deserves less respect than the guy with the fully painted hoard army but doesn’t know the basic rules of the game and hates playing.
I am happy to play an opponent with an unfinished army, or one that has been painted to a basic or even crude standard. So long as I feel they are at least trying to give their opponent (me) a good gaming experience then I’m fine with it.
I attended the Dropzone commander Invasion tournament back in February, it was my first time going to something like that as a player and was still building my army. As DzC is still a fairly new system playing unpainted was permitted but I really didn’t want to turn up with bare plastic as I know I don’t want to play against it on the other side of the table. I ploughed nearly all of my free time into painting for six weeks before the event to get my force as close to finished as I could.
I was really happy to see that every other player there was at least trying to field painted forces too even if some units on the tables were simply white primer. The fact that everyone was clearly trying to make an effort made it all that much more enjoyable for me.
Beasts of war
Hmm didnt mean to post that. 🙂 sounds like I’m trying to get the communitys attention.
Damn now I need to have an opinion that’s more than “I like pretty things, bach”
as I only play against some friends and occasionally (after much nagging) thegirlfriend (who is sometimes my friend). I don’t really mind playing with painted or unpainted.
But it takes a lot less nagging to get the girlfriend to play Mars Attacks now the minis are mostly painted and likewise it’s been a lot easier to get my non gaming friends to give it a go with painted minis too.
So in summary “most people I know like pretty things, bach”