Pointless Views: Exclusivity In Gaming
November 8, 2019 by crew
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Warren “I stirred up the Hornets nest”
Twenty Minutes later. Badger Furries and Cock Mushrooms flooding the stream. We had so much fun.
and none of it made it into the video…. XD
Hi,
Sorry that this is going to come across as negative/complaining and it probably partially is….
(I haven’t watched the episode before making this point, just read this in the show notes before I decide whether to invest the time to watch/listen.)
Talking about exclusivity when involving a subset (Discord users) of a subset (CoGs) of the OTTers is kind of ironic isn’t it?? 😉
This is a Backstage exclusive video that we pay for. If someone buys Backstage in five years time they can access this video exactly the same way we can access 5 year old Backstage only videos.
There’s a difference between a Membership benefit and an exclusive miniature purchase.
Plus all COG’s can be on Discord if you make that choice no to be on Discord that’s on you.
All stuff I knew and understood…
I found it interesting that Facebook was mentioned in the show – yes, I decided to watch in the end and I’m glad I did….
I didn’t feel as left out as I thought I might be. Which again is kinda ironic when I thought the objective of “Pointless Views”, at least in the original incarnation, was for the crew to comment on our comments, thus creating a greater feeling of inclusivity between Backstagers/CoGs and the hosts.
That was certainly the feeling I’ve had in the past on the occasions that my feedback was brought up in the old show.
I get that Warren wants to try out the latest tech, it is just going to leave some of us behind, thus reducing the inclusiveness.
Also, as horus500 points out below, even if we are on Discord, some of us can be left out due to time zones, depending on when these requests for input are posted.
Not only time zones.
Depending on the time of day some people are working and not everybody can go sit in depending on the work they do.
I do agree with you that I much prefer Pointless views to be addressing comments. Content like this is better for an XLBS not Pointless views.
Community engagement didn’t even matter here since they didn’t even scroll down to read any comments and just stopped at the first one so don’t worry about missing out.
Got to say I was a tad disappointed that none of the other legit points were talked about, it almost felt like rather than interacting with the community you just needed an idea for something to talk about. Still a great show.
That’s exactly what it was 🙂
We let the CoG’s that were in there throw up a stream of ideas and we settled on one to chat about before addressing the the resulting feedback of the ‘Change My Mind’ topic 🙂
I’m enjoying the Pointless Views even more than the XLBS show (although I wonder if we could also call it “Grognard’s Grumble”. It’s the BoW version of the Grumpy Old Men TV series, and we need MOAR grumpiness to vent our “first world problems”. But on a more serious note, you’ll usuially find the “hot topics” in the forums are usually confrontational and up for debate between different viewpoints. And it’s with these “debates” we usually see both sides of the argument (and this can make us take a second look at out viewpoint). Many times things in Pointless Views and in the XLBS show HAS made me shift stance slightly (I’ve still got my grumpy standards to maintain), and this is all good at perhaps seeing the whole picture (rather than out own narrow viewpoint) 🙂
But it isn’t because you have a choice to pay to be a backstager and you have a choice to go on discord
I would have loved to have joined this discussion on Discord, but Midnight in Oz…..
Anyway, the Barnes and Noble/GW thing is cut down versions of existing games. They did it for Underworlds – Dreaddfane and now Bloodbowl – Blitzball.
GW does it all the time. GW Event and store anniversary/openning/milestone character miniatures etc. From a retail point, they do it with direct, mailorder and Forgeworld. They give new releases to independants for a time through direct and then take them off take them off, usually with F’all notice. It was exactly like Warren described. You can order it but it’s the same cost in a GW store or in an independant.
Those GW sets like Feast of Bones are designed as either starter sets or hooks into particular factions. They are usually a lot cheaper than buying the components seperately and are totally reliant on print runs.
The blind buy Space Marines were started in Japan due to their particular consumer practices/customs. It went well and then was trialled elsewhere.
To the best of my knowledge Warlord has only ever done it with the purchase of rulesets.
Kickstarter exclusives are usually alternative miniature sculpts or scenarios etc.
Timed exclusives is always an option. eg. It’s available now for this event, etc,then won’t be avialable for a year.
On MTG, we once sold a set of Black Lotus. They buyers wife gave him a choice, a new Harley Davidson custom bike or the cards. He took the cards.
Uh I love the sprouting discussion on the trees XD
@warzan I would like to know your point of view and the rest of the guys about the following.
In the topic you were mostly talking about the exclusivity of gaming pieces.
But what about complete games that go through kickstarter that pass bye one time and might never come back.
Especially if you see the games popping up on e-bay and the like for a lot more that the game went for on the KS.
They even pop up while the game is still being delivered.
I know some companies have done similar things, like GW with dreadfleet, space hulk,….
great episode. with a extra value entertainment from the discord!
i mostly agree the exclusivity isn’t a bad thing as a tool. but as with all tools, how it is used can alienate and make people feel bad. so the use of it should be carefully considered for long term impact ( which i know is hard to do) and it should be advertised as a exclusive product/limited edition with clear goals of exclusion i.e. 500 product runs stated. communication of the facts allow people to make better choices(mostly).
I afraid I’m one of the ones against “exclusives”, not so much because they are exclusive rather I’m just sooooooooooo grumpy I dislike the idea of being manipulated with the “Fear of Missing Out” (FOMO) by someone in a marketing department.
I don’t see thing’s being “direct only” as being exclusive as the availability is still there to purchase. And it’s that “availability” that’s key in my mind. I dislike the idea of having to jump through hurdles to simply spend money with a company.
I don’t think that if a company should produce minis in metal or plastic really comes into the argument for exclusivity, as the base product is there and available (it’s just in a medium you don’t prefer), and that’s a different issue.
But at the end of the day, if a company has gone to the expense of making a green, then a master mould, why artificially restrict access (although I buy metal minis because they are superior, and you can cast them in house to meet demand whereas plastic require runs in the thousands so that’s a more difficult quandary to address)?
But at the end of the day, it’s still me going “Father Jack” everytime I see the word exclusive as I’m ranting “Feckin Marketing” every time I see it 😀
FOMO is a good point… and your right it didn’t come up, I suppose I’ve missed out on so much I just dont have the FO bit lol. 🙂
But yes we should discuss the whole FOMO thing at some point 🙂
I suppose for many years the “hobby” has always been (to an extent) “market led”, with manufacturers creating (and then casting to meet demand). So the customer has always been leading demand.
However now so much is being done in plastics, and runs of sprues are in the thousands that companies are trying to lead//create demand. One of the ways that’s appeared in the last few years is FOMO (spawned by how well exclusives have caused backers to spend more money during the project run). So now we see more and more “timed exclusives”, or “pre-order” bonuses offering content that the customer better jump on to purchase (then once they are there, they are tempted to spend more to get the free shipping).
So it’s all professionally marketed these days, customers are now seeing how other areas of business work as the whole aspect has changed from small companies working out of an industrial unit to larger business organisations employing market executives to drive up demand. But I do miss the rather “gentlemanly” aspect of the hobby where half the time it was a company run by gamers FOR gamers.
One aspect of this “Jump through hoops” aspect is the new Necromunda box set and accompanying rulebook (Book of Ruin). Now this new box set comes with a new “uprising” campaign (and rule cards) for £175. The new Book of Ruin was “expected” (or did we feel entitled?) to contain the new campaign as well for existing customers who had already purchased the game (and miniatures). But instead the new book gives additional and alternative rules for the Uprising Campaign instead (so to play with the FULL set of rules you need to buy the boxset and re-purchase the minis, basic rules, templates, dice etc etc (although it does come with new plastic terrain) as well as the Book of Ruin. So the Campaign is now “exclusive” to the new box set (and thus we have FOMO appearing as GW are doing a lot of “limited” releases), and this is obviously intended to drive sales.
Yet for the sake of 3 or 4 pages in the Book of Ruin GW could have put the basic rules in (and made everyone happy). My problem with “exclusives” is that the whole mentality is starting to take over the hobby and you can no longer just “buy” a game (instead it’s put out piecemeal with timed exclusives). Should customers really have to be led by a company in this way to spend money, or should the company look to meeting demand to make their customers happier (or perhaps a mix of the two, perhaps the pendulum has swung too far towards create demand and we’ll see things swing back due to customers just getting fed up with these new “tricks of the trade” that have appeared in such a non subtle way?
You’re gonna enjoy tomorrows weekender @phaidknott 😉
ONLY if I get to disagree with everyone and end up in Father Jack mode (my favourite TV show is Question Time and usually has me throwing cushions at the screen). Being “grumpy” has achievable rewards 😀
BTW the latest “storm in a teacup” was raised after GW showed the contents page in the preview of “Book of Ruin”. I’m in the camp that’s hoping it’s just a bad list (and the campaign is still there, as it seems such a silly decision that was made if it’s not).
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/07/bring-ruin-to-the-underhivegw-homepage-post-2fw-homepage-post-3/
The current Necromunda is a minefield of books and expansions, to the point I was in my FLGS the other day, cocked my head to read the Necromunda book-ends on the shelf, and didn’t even know what the heck was going on! Gang War 1,2,3, but you can buy Book of Law or compenium this, compilation that, but not the new Dark Sector? OR what was it? YIKES!
Ah the “tale” of the Necromunda rules is indeed complex, ridden with woes of limited releases and revisions of the rules barely 3 months old.
Basically the game launched with a box set and rules (usually termed N17), GW then released the Gang War Books as the released each gang (with the Gang War books featuring rules for that gang AND addition “core” rules and equipment in each book).
Then before they’d even released the last Gang War book, GW did a switch and released a new core rule book (termed N19) along with a “Gangs of the Underhive” book featuring all the gangs with the rules errata’d and updated, making all the Gang War books now “redundant”).
They’ve since released two books “Book of Judgement” and “Book of Peril” which again hold rules for a specific gang and additional rules for the Core game. So at the moment the rules are spread across four books (if you want them all).
One thing that has caused a LOT of backlash is the business model of limited runs and specifically the additional rules on the gang “tactics” cards. GW have done limited runs, and these have been selling out (within two days for the last release), with no plans from GW to re-print. Now as a business they can do what they want, but for gamers it’s a big annoyance to buy the game, then the minis but then find out half the (core gang) rules are on a deck of cards you can no longer purchase. GW have been doing this “limited” run thing for a while now, which probably allows them to not hold lots of stock but is causing players to start to turn away because they can not get it all (wargamers are the worst obsessive compulsive collectors after all).
A similar situation seems to be brewing with the new box set and Book of Ruin with rules (termed N20) being split across the two releases and cards in the box set we won’t see released separately for existing Necromunda players who don’t want to repurchase everything to gain access to these rules. It’s similar with the Adepticus Titanicus game, with players finding it hard to obtain the rules and specifically the cards needed to play due to the limited/exclusive marketing (using FOMO to drive sales by limiting stock). But it’s not just GW doing this, we’re seeing almost all the big players doing “pre-order” for exclusives or you’ll miss out marketing. Now some may say it’s a “reward” for loyalty, but then it’s also a “reward” for jumping through hoops in the same manner I would do with a dog and doggie treats. Throw all the marketing out the window and lets go back to the gentlemanly way of old where companies would supply customers with a product and customers had faith that once they had started with a game they could access EVERYTHING for the game without worry of it being pulled, or they just started into the game too late to obtain stuff that was available at the start.
Had to read this twice, wow Necromunda…. yikes. N19 now!?
I think the fact that i often don’t think i’m buying a ‘complete’ game is part of what i dislike about those ‘commitment to not producing’ exclusives. (See my previous comment: https://www.beastsofwar.com/featured/pointless-views-exclusivity-in-gaming/#comment-556473 for what i mean by ‘commitment to not producing’ exclusives.) Don’t get me wrong, i like to have expansions and add-ons and so on, but they should be ‘optional’ rather than necessary. I get the impression that a lot of games are rushed in such a way as to be effectively incomplete, or even deliberately made to be incomplete, when sold or delivered. I realise that it is difficult to get a rule set right without putting it out there into the player’s hands, and it’s inevitable perhaps that there will be rules problems, but, as i said in my previous comment with regards to another aspect of exclusivity, that’s unfortunate rather than intrinsic.
The problem is when it’s not “optional” content. When access is restricted due to limited runs/timed exclusives you may not get the option (so you have to buy when the manufacturer wants rather when you do). FOMO is a real driving force lately in getting those sales, and limiting availability males be wary of getting into games where I know I’m limited in what options I have available because of how late I got into a game 🙁
Price Gouging – I really don’t get why people get in such a hullabaloo about someone going to a show, buying something and then selling it to someone else for a price they are willing to pay – I wouldn’t even consider that price gouging in a moral sense, though it perhaps fits certain economic definitions of it. Now, if during a hurricane or other natural disaster or some other supply shock, the local Spar starts charging £10 for a bottle of water, or puts up the price of fuel extortionately … that is Price Gouging and they should be hanged from the nearest lamp post after being set on by sexy badgers armed with sexy mushrooms.
People are the worst. If people actually realised that the world doesn’t revolve around them, and that life is not fair – then the world would be a better place. As a wargaming community, we don’t realise how good we have it. The choice and the talent we have in the industry, and people still prefer to moan and groan because something doesn’t fit what they personally want. I’m probably also a bit hypocritical as I can be a moany bastard at times (including all the time).
It isn’t only consumers who are entitled. There are a few miniature companies who feel entitled because they are a small business, that we should be buying their stuff and paying for their mortgages. I feel entitled enough to call them the special c word! Also their little internet “friends” who extol you to buy their stuff or we’ll lose them for ever, and they are the best in the business when you wait months/years for them to make things you paid for, they can go special f word themselves as well.
When you buy a limited edition item for no reason other than to sell it on at a higher price you are profiteering. You are artificially manufacturing scarcity and although it’s not illegal I definitely think in most cases it’s unethical.
So when Justin is on vacation, can we get John on the show? We miss John……
Still sad that our efforts on the Discord did not make it in the video…..
I’d just like to see Gerry and John do ALL the historical unboxings. OK the videos might end up an hour long, and many tangents explored but it would be GREAT viewing 🙂
I do think we need to be careful of what we determine to be a sense of entitlement. I see lots of things I can’t buy, not necessarily because of the price but specifically because of some kind of exclusivity, whether it’s because it’s limited edition, event only or kickstarter exclusive. When this happens I feel frustrated and depending on the context a little angry, although don’t go and complain to the makers (I have expressed my displeasure away from the makers own social media). What annoys me is having something advertised to me that is exclusive and I can’t get access to it. A couple of examples.
FFG did a limited edition Star Wars miniature for conventions but it was US only. Now, if that had been available at a UK con I would have potentially bought a ticket, as I did for the Warlord Games Open day for their exclusive miniature, and I would have been able to get it. But it was only available in cons in the US and unfortunately even if I had the money to spaff on a trip to the states I don’t have the time and I simply wouldn’t justify it just for that miniature. But it was still advertised worldwide.
Ubisoft used to have a store called Ubiworkshop that sold merchandise. I absolutely love the Assassins Creed hoodies and at the time they shipped internationally. Then they brought it all inhouse and merged with Ubisoft Store. All clothing pretty much stopped being sold anywhere except US/Canada. But they still advertise all products via a single Facebook page. So the rest of the world gets to look at products they aren’t allowed to buy.
Now, I fully respect any business’s right to conduct their business any way they like within the law of course. But I do resent having products advertised to me that I can’t get, not because they are too expensive but because of geography. I find that incredibly frustrating, it’s like being told “here’s what you could have won”. When something is advertised, it’s an invitation to buy it. When you advertise but restrict who can buy it, people can feel a little resentful. It’s a quirk of the internet that this happens, I know that and in all honesty it’s not like I sit at home seething about it but it definitely grinds my gears. We like to think we live in a “global world”, as people keep calling it, but we don’t. We have the ability to communicate globally but not necessarily conduct business.
@onlyonepinman In my book that is coming from a ‘sense of entitlement’ and guess what – it’s perfectly fine – we all have it 🙂 and its perfectly natural to have a ‘me first’ element within us – we’ve evolved to have it.
I suppose to be more clear, it’s when a sense of entitlement spills out into demands and public tantrums that I’m warning about 🙂 – that is becoming tiresome 🙂
I don’t see this as entitlement, I don’t feel that anyone is in anyway obliged to sell to me. However if you won’t sell me a product, don’t advertise it to me. I don’t feel entitled to buy anything but I do object to having things waved under my nose only to be told that someone won’t sell me the item when I try to do so
ok so let’s take that to its logical conclusion.
1) How would you expect advertisers to predetermined your interest in somthing they want to raise awareness of…
2) How would you expect you to be individually shielded from any resulting awareness campaign that rolls out.
The thing is, it’s actually becoming possible to do both of the above things, but IMHO I would rather ignore stuff than give up what I have to for the above to happen … so I dont have to ignore stuff 🙂
I already said that I accept this is a quirk of the internet that it happens. However It doesn’t mean I have to like it or that it won’t grind my gears when it does. I remember a time when there was no internet and this wasn’t possible. In fact I was an adult before the internet revolution so really this is an old sensibility colliding with the different world. However it still pisses me off when I am fed adverts for stuff only to then be told no, piss off Englisher. It’s like you get a momentary pang of excitement, here’s a cool new things, you have the money, you want to buy it, it’s all awesome and then bam, no, sorry you’re in the wrong part of the world. I don’t think it’s a sense of “entitlement” that makes me not want to be built up only to be disappointed. It’s not that I feel entitled to be able to always buy things, it’s about feeling frustrated at being given a sense of anticipation only to ultimately be disappointed.
There are definitely ways to:
1) Determine what adverts to show to someone. Targeted advertising is a real thing, usually based on browser history (although it seems to spend most of its time advertising things I have already bought rather than things similar to something I bought, so whether it works is a matter of debate)
2) Geographically restrict adverts (or any internet content).
So in theory it should actually be entirely possible for people be shielded from adverts for stuff that isn’t actually available to them.
there is a flaw in your theory though @onlyonepinman. Many years ago before the interwebz you still got show only models. I would see these advertised in WI or even things like WD, and knew I had no chance to getting them and was therefore disappointed.
The difference being, I think, that back in the day, I would be unlikely to see a miniature exclusive to a show that I could not reasonably get to should the mood take me. That is I would be unlikely to see a miniature that was exclusive to a show in the USA. That is the bit I find annoying because I would go to a show in the UK just to get an event in only miniature
Different people mean different things by exclusivity. I do not like it when a games company makes something (a miniature or whatever) that is tied into and/or expands on the gameplay (such as a specific character) exclusive in such a way as to commit them to not ever again producing that exclusive something after a certain point in time (such as after a crowdfunder ends). If that exclusive something is only paraphernalia then i don’t mind that at all, but then i suppose that’s a problem for the games company if the idea of the exclusive is to entice people into buying (which i’m sceptical of as an effective sales mechanism, but i digress), because i’m a lot less likely to buy paraphernalia, and the reason i’m less likely to buy paraphernalia is because it has nothing to do with the game other than perhaps imagery. If that exclusive something is an aesthetic variation for use in a game (such as an additional variant of a miniature or a rulebook with a different cover) then although i might like to buy it i’m not put off the entire game if i can’t. If that exclusive something is exclusive in such a way as to allow the games company to produce that exclusive something in future at some point, then although i might unfortunately find myself unable to buy that exclusive something at a particular point in time when i can afford to and want to, at least in theory there’s nothing preventing the company producing it. It’s that particular type of exclusivity that is a commitment to not producing a part of the game that i dislike and which puts me off buying into a game. (It’s similar to what makes me wary of buying into licenced games, which often suddenly disappear and become forever unavailable when the licence is pulled.) Obviously things can become unavailable, temporarily or permanantly, for economic reasons, but that’s unfortunate rather than intrinsic.
Some thoughts:
GW specifically: their exclusive range is to do with their ‘long tail’ – a situation where bricks and mortar stores can never realistically stock everything in the catalogue, they’ll focus on the big selling items that shift quickly. This is the model that effected the book industry many years ago (zillions of books in print, which books to stock? Bestsellers!) that Amazon exploited at the beginning by offering you everything to your door. That’s just product catalogue/range management.
Exclusivity in KS.
Type #1: Bonus options for backers to offer that extra value to anyone prepared to commit their money during the campaign and even more if you commit early. That’s fine, as Gerry says, as long as this isn’t ‘pay-to-win’. I do get fed up with people who don’t back the project during the campaign but expect to be able to pick them up post-campaign when it goes into pre-order or retail.
Type #2: KS campaigns for which everything is only available during the campaign (with maybe a post-campaign pre-order). Clearly whatever they are offering is not viable in an ongoing retail model (direct or via retailers). \it allows them to create content that would not otherwise be made. We can think MB:Pantheon and various other games like that. They have an appeal and there’s nothing to stop them doing a re-print campaign.
I have been following the Infinity:Defiance campaign and wondering whether its KS exclusive tag is necessary. I’d have thought that it would have a lasting appeal in a retail setting as an entry point, but clearly they have good reasons for making it exclusive, I can however imagine that they may in future do a re-print KS with new add-on expansions – again I’ve no problem with that – the KS Exclusive tag is a business model here rather than an added-value exclusive item within a set of rewards.
Yeah I think with defiance it may well stay a KS based thing – just a completely alternative business model. But who knows really!
Sorry Warzan “That’s commerce.” I disagree, that’s rich people scalping less fortunate people, those who could not at the first drop of a hat afford that item. It’s the same old smelly capitolism, that the rich get richer [can save by being able to buy the deals/ can buy more of a limited item and then resell, ect].
It’s why having money lets you save money. You can buy the deals when they come up, saving money. Which then ultimately goes back into your wallet and it continues. It’s like a paying rent principal, not having enough for a down payment but enough to pay rent, you never get ahead but stay a float.
GW for example, is purposefully limiting plastic items they could produce literal thousands of. On purpose, to build false sense of being an exclusive item. At my local Warhammer I’ve personally witnessed an utter squeezing of fans wallets and minds, they’re buying the plastic crack because they want to stay current and ‘economically viable’ to win. I SUPER DISAGREE with this strategy and extortion so I only print my models now and buy used.
I would agree if we were talking about essentials.
But all this stuff is just fluffy nice to have stuff so I dont really think it qualifies.
IMHO 🙂
One could argue that “fluffy nice to have stuff” is essential to getting through this grim-dark world of mass manufacturing and human-process*. 🙂
* Death of self, goal detachment, ect. Maybe I just need to roll some more dice!
lol its hard to dissagre there!
Harsh, bah, Justine In Vancouver BC, Canada we have a term for people warren just talk about.
The Young Lady is clear a Richmond Driver License holder
all the kick-starters I have seen they have a 1 £/$ starter pledge.
so everyone interested can get one foot on the list.
GW old trees are sleepyhollow trees?
Glad to see the material discussion rekindled on this one.
Assuming everything equal and all miniatures are the prime examples of their kind detail is always Resin>Metal>Plastic
This is entirely because of material shrinkage and sharpness, metal simply combines the best of both worlds (Resin casting flexibility and detail and plastic durability and fast manufacturing) and as a happy medium produces a far superior product than both.
That been said material is a tool and all tools have their proper utilization and need the proper handling, most peoples fear or underappreciation of metals comes because of how bad metal manufacturer was Games Workshop and how good plastic manufacturer Games Workshop became.
Add to this that many new companies try metal as it is the most inexpensive material to make models and you have another source of bad experience, metals at their best is when companies with a ton of experience like Corvus Belli deliver metal models, utilizing all the advantages of the medium and minimizing all the problems it has.
Now can plastic models produce equally good and dynamic models as metals? short of, first forget “multiposed” models, but on single posed models, plastic can produce equal quality, assuming the sculptor AND mold maker are quite experienced on their field but at a far bigger parts breakdown per model (and the detail will not be as sharp to the eyes of a really experienced person).
Agreed on all counts!
Gents you might like to reach out to Locktight in Dublin, they did have an education department. And might like to help you in the chemical/mechanical adhesion.
Thanks for the tip @goban
To be honest, I think the issue with “exclusives” comes down to expectations… there are some ‘exclusives’ that become available at a later time after people thought they had exclusive models… or that were produced for a game that became a hit and suddenly was highly desirable beyond expectations and initial kickstarter or pre-ordering interest when the price sky-rockets for something that wasn’t intended to be so desired or expensive… and then when those models are ‘powerful’ or desirable in a game but unavailable, people react badly because they want to be competitive.
CMON did an exclusives for ASOIAF that is a “joke” model and has no effect on the game… then they did alt sculpts for models that see play, and although the price for the “joke” model has gone up, it is not nearly as desirable as the other models… then there are “non-limited edition” that just haven’t been reproduced… and those are the ones currently going for the most money on ebay/trades/etc… So the expectation that the community would be able to get those ‘non-limited’ models has not been met and so they are being treated as essentially exclusive models that are needed.
Another example was for Guild Ball – there are a fair # of “alt sculpts” that are ‘limited editions’.. but the metal models in alt sculpts aren’t really limited edition.. they are just sporadically available… while other models (the ones produced for launches of the minor guilds) ARE super limited and nigh impossible to get. None of those are different in game play… but initially those metal models being “limited editions” were being resold at high prices.. then people realized they weren’t really limited… so the prices dropped… then the actual “limited alt-sculpts for crossover models for minor guilds” came out and when everyone realized these WERE limited and desirable, the prices shot up. So the issue again was expectation of what is meant by exclusivity and inconsistencies driving frustration.
The other aspect of the ‘I bought 3 of these with the idea to resell them’ is that this particular buyer is risking the exclusives not being successful or worth what they paid… now.. some established KS or companies have a reputation that becomes well known (thinking GenCon exclusives for Infinity for example)… but at that point, there is a standard expectation that “X” limited edition model will be worth 2 or 3 times it’s value to people that don’t get it at GenCon or during an online sale, so choosing not to buy those models means you are going to know the price is gonna be high 3, 6, and 12 months post that GenCon.
The other topic not discussed is the idea what “the customer is always right”.. now they aren’t.. so that’s fine.. but when you hear a lot of complaints about the way a company is doing business, then it is up to that company to decide how to respond to their existing vs their potential future customers. And again, I think it comes down to expectation and companies that flip/flop seem to drive the community crazy.. while companies (like Kingdom Death) that have been pretty consistent all along seem to have a reputation that people just accept.
I dunno.. we do want everything.. all the time.. for the cheapest we can pay.. right now… and so there is a lot of unrealistic expectation that we all have until we start to self-reflect and realize we are doing it and why it isn’t something we should be encouraging.
Lol. I just turned on the Weekender.. and listened to Warren rant about the “exclusivity” of the Warhammer & Barnes and Noble boxed sets… lol… it’s almost like Friday didn’t happen.
I do agree with Ben – these are ‘introductions’ that are available in a large book store that gamers can pick up to dabble in a game they might be interested in or for someone who’s not in the hobby yet.
The idea that “who cares” could literally be said about every product that crosses the news page that isn’t interesting to someone who doesn’t play the genre being discussed… right? Lol.
lol yeah my issue is not with its exclusivity or even its existence. It’s more about the nature of it as an exclusive mini product range for B&N.
I just think of the hoops that were jumped through and wonder what was behind it. Everything about it strikes me as odd.
There is a lot of chatter about ‘but this is a gateway product’ but perhaps I’m being too cynical but I dont think that motive was very high up the list when this deal was formulated 🙂
I certainly don’t think they are in anyway a gateway product. Heroquest was a gateway product Because you could pick it up in any good toy store. This is specifically only available in Barnes and Noble. All I can imagine is that Blitzbowl has proven very popular and GW/BN are simply capitalising on that.
Speaking of extensions..hasn’t it been like 2 years since you did the awards?
yup
let’s see what January brings 🙂
Entitlement: I work in healthcare and have done for over 20 years. I would argue that this inappropriate sense of entitlement is actually not isolated to this industry but is actually becoming a part of UK culture in general. There are laws that regulate the supply of medicines and the number of arguments I get into about people who want medicines without a legal prescription or because the healthcare systems are not convenient or are time consuming has grown exponentially.
I wonder whether there is a correlation to age where this is more prevalent among younger generations.
With hobby products you are entitled to the product on the terms specified by retailer or manufacturer and under no other circumstances. Carping, bitching and moaning is a waste of everybody’s time, so just stop, shut up and move on with your life.
In defence of Mythic games, MB Pantheon gets round the exclusive model problem beautifully using the draft mechanic. If player A has models player B doesn’t have they just put the models in the draft pool. They will then have to make sure they pick them before player B in the draft or they could find them in the hands of their opponent. This mechanic is genius IMHO.
Agreed I loved it then and I love it now, was a beautiful aspect of the game!
@warzan something else I meant to post but forgot – Gnarly old trees. If you can wait a few months until it gets to retail Mantic will be releasing a range of gnarly old trees from their second Terrain Crate kickstarter. To the best of my knowledge the kickstarter is still in schedule to deliver in January next year and I would expect it to be on their webstore shortly afterwards.
Or I guess you could reach out to Mantic and see if they can sort something (late pledge for example).
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/leagueofinfamy/terraincrate-2-crate-expectations
The set is called Peaceful Park and I believe it was about £25 on its own
nice @onlyonepinman thanks for that!
Even at retail price they’re still good value for money. But it does mean your little ones may have to wait a few months to explore the dark dark woods
Bless your cotton socks. I’ve been looking for this too since the GW ones went oop. Doing a dead winter forest for Darklands and some 7TV scooby shenanigans!
Exclusivity of gameplay content grinds my gears as much as slow drivers and cold toast.
Nothing poisons a game like gameplay advantages/options only available to a lucky few.
Gw are becoming really bad at this, with the necromunda tactics cards.
I’ll be running a campaign soon and tactics cards not from the core box will be banned.
(or we get them photocopied and laminated for all to use).
Alt sculpts are fine, have them limited no issues there. But exclusive gameplay? Nah thats a dick move and sounds a lot like pay to win.