Weekender XLBS: Opening Up
March 10, 2019 by dignity
For some website features, you will need a FREE account and for some others, you will need to join the Cult of Games.
Or if you have already joined the Cult of Games Log in now
What difference will having a FREE account make?
Setting up a Free account with OnTableTop unlocks a load of additional features and content (see below). You can then get involved with our Tabletop Gaming community, we are very helpful and keen to hear what you have to say. So Join Us Now!
Free Account Includes
- Creating your own project blogs.
- Rating and reviewing games using our innovative system.
- Commenting and ability to upvote.
- Posting in the forums.
- Unlocking of Achivments and collectin hobby xp
- Ability to add places like clubs and stores to our gaming database.
- Follow games, recommend games, use wishlist and mark what games you own.
- You will be able to add friends to your account.
What's the Cult of Games?
Once you have made a free account you can support the community by joing the Cult of Games. Joining the Cult allows you to use even more parts of the site and access to extra content. Check out some of the extra features below.
Cult of Games Membership Includes
- Reduced ads, for a better browsing experience (feature can be turned on or off in your profile).
- Access to The Cult of Games XLBS Sunday Show.
- Extra hobby videos about painting, terrain building etc.
- Exclusive interviews with the best game designers etc.
- Behind the scenes studio VLogs.
- Access to our live stream archives.
- Early access to our event tickets.
- Access to the CoG Greenroom.
- Access to the CoG Chamber of Commerce.
- Access the CoG Bazarr Trading Forum.
- Create and Edit Records for Games, Companies and Professionals.
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
![Warcradle Studios Reveal TINY New 10mm Festive Marker! [Updated]](https://images.beastsofwar.com/2025/11/christmas-kyle-main-600-338.jpg)
Happy Sunday
I stay up way too late
And you have a better sense of timing than I do… 😛
Same here. Tonight my bad back’s been playing up, what’s your excuse? ?
Happy Sunday!!!
Happy Sunday Backstagers!
Let’s check on the gangs hobby time.
Great show and very informative, mental health does indeed effect 1 in 4 and it’s on the rise.
I too suffer from this condition and being a man I have found it very hard to first except and secondly cope with, as it lives along side my day to day life.
I wrote a blog post a little while back which I try to explain we are not alone, if you are interested in reading it the link is below
https://battlebunkerblog.com/2018/10/05/depression-and-wargaming/
This is a shout out to Justin, please mate I really understand your emotions mate and if you need to talk to a fellow sufferer then please feel free to PM me. Please remember you are not alone.
Are more people actually suffering from mental health issues, or are we as a society getting better at detecting it/confronting it? Eg a hundred years ago what we now call PTSD and recognise as genuine trauma was then blown off as moral cowardice when it was talked about, if it was talked about at all, and such things were swept under the rug and seen as shameful. That stigma still lingers, but we’re getting better at shedding it.
I can think of some now deceased older relatives who might have said “in our day we didn’t have time to feel depressed!”
Sure, but looking back, in a few cases they were clearly effected by something!
Thanks for sharing your story sir.
I know some of those feelings all too well.
You are not alone.
Your welcome
I just wish I knew sooner, then I may have been able to avoid some of the problems I still have.
For me I call it my black dog, some days my black dog is a small puppy all excited. This is when I’m putting on a persona to mask the issue.
Then other days the black dog completely smothers me to a point where it takes over me.
Thanks for the link to your blog post where you open up.
Thanks for sharing there mate
Your welcome @panzerkaput @coxjul
It has been very hard and writing that post was more of me trying to understand it and so it is me talking to myself.
All I want is for people who suffer to say “hey your not alone, we are everywhere” and for those who don’t suffer from it to say “I’m sorry if I seem off or I do something out of character. Or, please don’t be afraid to talk to me”.
It has been very difficult and still is to accept this condition, but if I can help anyone I will. All you have to do is ask.
Well @chaingun we are here for you too, remember that
Happy sunday
Happy Sunday Gerry
happy sunday folks!
Happy Sunday Warren
Happy Sunday big man! And Co.
Seriously a great episode, guys. The best in a long time. Definitely a lot of food for thought on this one. Thanks so much for everything you do.
‘Happy'(?!?)Sunday! Maybe?
Given the part 2 subject, should we reconsider the word ‘flaw’ in your discussion over Justin’s model. Sure, after a traumatic change you might expect some different characteristics some of which might be seen by many as not ideal. These might be physical or mental – but to call them a ‘flaw’ sounds judgemental.
OK, I know it’s only a fictional backstory for a ludicrously preposterous world of boltgun fodder and I’m over-reacting a bit; but it’s interesting how we drop into a use of language that if you were using it to describe a real person who has survived trauma and emerged the other side might be seen as hurtful and unaccepting?
Absolutely 🙂
But I’d like all members to remember that language is a blunt tool that we all have various levels of skill at wielding.
I think it would be a good place to let folk do their best with the language and so long as we get the context then focus on that.
Otherwise we’ll all end up only in scripted type conversations.
Again though your point comes across loud and clear 🙂
I, strangely, like the term flaw.
After all, isn’t it the flaw in the diamond that makes it beautiful – asking for a friend 😉
And in the context of trying to make a perfect primarius flaw would be entirely accurate
OK – maybe I was a bit tense and defensive at the start of the show not knowing where it would be going. In the mind of someone else the subject’s flaw might be “they’re unreliable and don’t attend club or rpg sessions regularly’. That’s how an issue might be manifested, but it’s not the real issue.
I still prefer ‘personal trait’ or ‘characteristic’, especially when used as a narrative device. As long as it’s not presented as a stereotyped simplification of more complex realities for many, like that card in a game that cropped up a while back.
Thanks chaps, very valuable show! Thanks for opening up… even what Justin said counts in that regard by publicly sharing the fact that an issue exists. (@dignity – May that significant step release you buddy!)
If the show leads to the same outcome for one person that a Robbie Vincent call-in radio show had for me 30 years ago its invaluable… Let’s just say I’m still here!
I used to feel overly awkward about hugs, especially man hugs, but I’m starting to appreciate them when I need them and getting better at offering them when I can see they’re needed…
Big virtual hug to anyone who needs one!
OK – this show has clearly hit a nerve with me right now after a tough year. Physical injuries and complications in the last 12 month have constrained my activities including my ability to go or a healthy walk or attend social activities such as gaming club; this is turn has been having a negative impact on my already fragile mental health. This show has stirred up some energy that I’m determined to harness.
For those of you unfamiliar, or not sure what to look out for at work or down the club, here’s a useful list my daughter shared on fb…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mental illness may look like:
* Cancelling plans at the last minute
* Mood swings lasting hours or days or weeks
* Extremely demotivated to socialise, shower, clean or work
* Believing people secretly dislike them or hate them
* Becoming intensely emotionally distant or unavailable
* Isolating themselves from other people and staying in their house or bedroom
* Having dramatic outbursts over seemingly small problems
* Continuously seeking reassurance that no one is mad at them or that they are still loved
* Sleeping all the time… or not at all
* Eating all the time… or not at all
* Frequently changing hobbies, interests or careers
* Suddenly losing interest in something they are usually passionate about
It’s by no means comprehensive, but… be careful out there and look out for each other!
Now to finish that work I’ve been procrastinating over all week, finding any excuse to be distracted (such as commenting here) – it’s due tomorrow!
It’s a shame I can’t upvote this more than once.
I recognise myself sooo many times on that list.
Thanks for sharing that, I found it very helpful.
I can certainly share in most of those symptoms @coxjul.
If you want to talk, please don’t hesitate mate, I don’t have the answers but we can find them out together.
I have 9 of those going right now… and the eating and the sleeping ones come and go… so 11 total off that list… though I have countered many of them with work, hobby and forced socializing… last night I ran an RPG, today I finished a painting project… I have a website and posted a blog today, and I have school work and reading to accomplish… but yeah that whole list is pretty much my life.
“Forced socialization” is a big one for me. My mother and my therapist basically make sure i get out of the house at least once a week (my therapist would like it to be more often). lol
When you open the front of the Dreadnaught Is that a SIM Card you can see?
Gerry talks about using rules for a few models and the system gets screwed if you increase the figure count. Isn’t this what happened to Rogue Trader in the first place? RT was from looking at it as a 20-30 figure a side game that became a tad unwieldy as you put more and more figures on the table.
exactly and it’s happening again. I think we see it in a lot of games. The designer writes them for a certain scale, or should I say size of force. Then people play and enjoy it and immediately think “I’d love to play bigger games” eventually they’re unplayable. Instead people should be looking for a new rule set to play the bigger game of whatever, but they sometimes get stuck in a bubble of what the game “needs” to be.
I guarantee you that next edition of 40k is going to look a heck of a lot like Kill Team. It bridges the gap.. you still move all your stuff,but then so do i… and you don’t always move first you have to roll off every turn.
Bloody Hell .. you 4 are the bravest guys on the planet .. Well done to you all and more power to ya !!!!
Well, I never thought that an XLBS would have me crying….But this one has.
Thanks for sharing your stories gents.
Everyone has a story you haven’t heard, all you have to do is listen.
The first time I can remember hearing “You are not alone” was from my Financial Adviser.
For me it has two meanings:
You are not the only one going through this, so it is a part of people’s lives
You have friends that you can talk to, and if you do, you might find that they open up to you.
But you have to listen, and as I had to tell my stepsister last year, “You can’t listen when your mouth is open.” (Meaning you have to keep shtum, use body language and the odd comforting noise to indicate that not only have you listen but they have been heard. Oh yes and hugs, but only if they are comfortable in doing so – some people aren’t)
Wonderful and wise words <3
Thanks.
Heavy episode this week, but worth it; as Mel says at the end, if it only helps one person that’s a good thing and it’s time you guys have spent well. Going back to something else he said which ties into this, Mel mentioned talking about this issue being cathartic, and ill add listening to you guys talking about it is also cathartic.
I’ll second the comment you guys made about talking to your GP and that your GP won’t tell others about it; a few months back I went for a course of counselling sessions (probably the same thing @warzan mentioned he went for and kept having extended) and at the start the counsellor told me that everything said in those sessions stays between the two of us, the only exception (understandably) being if she thought I was a danger to myself or others. Going to these sessions did help lift me out of a rut somewhat, so I think it’s worth bringing up with your GP if you feel you may be depressed or have other such mental health issues.
It is a shame that mental health has not had the investment in it that other health fields have had, especially as a lot of the time it’s a gradual erosion rather than a sudden thing; obviously there are many cases of a single trauma causing mental health issues, but I’m willing to bet there are as many if not more where it’s built up over time and if there has been a sudden snap it’s been a straw that broke the camel’s back situation. To compound this, is the damage that can be done to children.
Mel touched on the trauma he went through when he was young, and while I never experienced anything on the level he did, there were things in my childhood that I’m certain had a massive negative impact on my mental health. For me it was being bullied in school; I was bullied from the start of Year 3 to the end of Year 11 (for non-Brits that’s from 7-years old to almost 17). The constant bullying ground me down and it took so much strength to keep going and not let it grind me right into the dirt. I’m fairly sure it’s the reason why I don’t remember much about my childhood; partly down to not wanting to remember and partly down to the massive amount of negativity overshadowing any bits of positivity. One lingering effect is that currently there’s an anti-bullying ad on the telly and I have to fast forward through it whenever it comes on because of how uncomfortable it makes me.
Another effect has been the damage it’s done to my social skills. I never had friends as a kid (at least from what I can remember) and the bullying shut off avenues to acquire them, and consequently it’s given me a touch of social anxiety. I think I was about twenty before I was able to think of anyone as a friend rather than an acquaintance and it’s only been the past couple of years (for context I’m now 30) that I’ve felt comfortable enough to loosen my definition of friend somewhat to encompass more acquaintances. This is where the relation to the hobby comes in for me, as it’s the hobby, and talking online to fellow hobbyists and going to my local wargames club which has helped in this regard. It hasn’t eliminated it completely (I still feel uncomfortable in crowds, going new places, meeting new people, etc), but I’m confident that I’m much better off than I would be if I hadn’t gotten into the hobby. Probably also why my idea of the ideal partner would be a fellow hobbyist as it makes the concept of someone being interested in me slightly less terrrifying. ^^;
One last thing, concerning the ending of this episode; I don’t know Justin well enough to offer a hug, so I’ll give a virtual pat on the shoulder instead. I know it’s not much, but hopefully it’ll help a tiny bit to make to feel better.
Having been to various forms of counselling, on and off, over a period of nearly 30 years, the two best I have found were the first and the current counsellors. There were four or five in-between.
Those two counsellors I view as “professional friends”. I personally need to hear a part of their stories to be able to fully share mine. It helps form a connection.
The best counsellors are often those who’ve personally experienced a similar journey; covering that is sometimes part of their training.
Not that I want to knock well-intentioned do-gooders, but sometimes you can feel the difference between empathy and sympathy when you know there’s a shared vulnerability there helping a bond.
Mate, I’ve been there too! You know where I am if you need a real pat on the back!
Thanks mate. 🙂
@warzan in all fairness the fluff in Vigilus Defiant has had Calgar not engaging in much direct combat due to still being weak from the Rubicon Primaris procedure, a process that did leave him technically dead on the operating table for a considerable period.
As for flaws, well Calgar is still suffering (as Justin notes) a bit of inadequacy since Bobby G returned and took back command of the Ultramarines, reinstating the 500 worlds of Ultramar; The Blood Angels Primaris have not yet suffered the Black Rage but several units have been identified as having shown signs of the Red Thirst; And whilst the Space Wolves have not had any of their Primaris go Wulfen, there was an incident noted in the Codex of a pack of Inceptors going a bit feral and using their Assault Bolters to beat their opponents to death in melee. Plus there is a line in the Dark Imperium novel where Guilleman refers to Primaris as “Cawl’s abominations”, so I think the Primaris’ total supremacy to vanilla marines won’t be for the long term (admittedly that might mean they just stop differentiating between the two types, discontinue the old marines and release Tactical, Devastator and Asssault kits for the Primaris, making the Intercessor the base for Astartes going forward…)
I’m now imaging what would happen to the Ultramarines if Bobby Gillespie of Primal Scream was in command of them…
Good show, good show. A very important topic.
My best wishes to all of you, on show and in the community!
I think I am probably in the same situation as Warren’s wife. My own partner is not well in a more physical sense than any mental issues although there is anxiety and depression as she is now limited in what she can achieve physically
What this means is that I am stressed with having to almost do everything and sometimes is does get on top of me and I find it hard sometimes not to resent her and situation we are in even though it’s no fault of hers
Luckily I work for the Govt that allows me days off to help with any problems of getting her to appointments etc which eases the stress on myself and it’s one less thing to worry about. Sadly a lot of companies don’t seem to be as understanding
I think what I’m trying to say is @warzan make sure Andrea is also ok and that she is not putting a brave face on everything as well as so not to worry you and your kids
Yes it’s never far from my mind mate. We made some changes at the start of the year when andrea was offered a job back in special needs teaching. She’s been running the home and raising us for the past 8 years and this opportunity came up a little earlier than expected (wee Jack is only one year old)
But it was a chance to try somthing new and give her the opportunity to do productive adult stuff.
So my mornings are now spent managing emails etc with a lovely wee man on my knee lol
It’s certainly a bit of upheaval but I’m really glad she’s getting a different challenge now, and the little bit of extra income makes her feel better too.
Lots of change this last while lol
Good on here…… it is a rewarding career as I well know ….
Thanks for your honesty in this episode. It has really touched a nerve in me as I have suffered from anxiety and depression for most of my life. I am 54 and I am still unable to cope with life.
Watching this has really got me thinking (not always a good thing) and I want to tell my story both here in this community and to a proffessional, I need to move on.
Unfortunately I have to get ready for work now, it is going to be a tough one as I am now feeling very emotionally vulnerable. Will be back here later today to share my thoughts and my story.
Big hug to Justin.
You are not alone.
I certainly will be here to hear when you are ready.
Take care today mate.
See you later on!
As is so oft repeated, You are NOT alone. Reach out to someone. You will be stronger.
Oh well I made it through work today, with this mornings XLBS never far from my thoughts.
So happy to see that Justin has been able to share his thoughts and his story with Warzan and Mel, I too have had problems being able to talk about my feelings and am going to write down some of my thoughts and my story here.
So much of what Warzan shared hit a raw nerve with me as I have been dealing with depression and anxiety for most of my life. As a child was always a bit of a loner and found it hard to build relationships. I was put down my father and teased and bullied by my peers, something that has affected my confidence to this day.
I have always found it difficult to relax and enjoy myself in social situations one of the few memories from my earlier life is that of returning to London from living away in Cornwall for 6 months and meeting up with some old friends and finding myself sitting there not knowing what to say and feeling like a complete stranger. To this day I avoid social gatherings as I always feel like an outsider, work function for me are hell and I always leave them hating myself for having spent the evening stood in a corner having hardly spoken to anyone. My social anxiety has gotten so bad that I even feel awkward when visiting my Mum as a lot of the time is spent in silence as I find it difficult engaging in conversation.
Like Warren, money is an anathema to me, I am and have always been unable to manage my life, I am now 54 and living in a damp bedsit , finding that towards end of each month I am struggling to find money to feed myself. I spend much of my time burying mt head in the sand wishing real life would just go away.
Unfortunately I do not have a Partner, in fact in my 54 years of life I have probably spent less than 4 years in a relationship with none of my previous relationships lasting more than 6 months. I have never been in love, but as the old cliche goes how can you expect anyone to love you if yoy cannot love yourself.
At 27 I had a full on nervous breakdown, spending months of my life drunk wandering the streets for hours on end with no focus and wondering what to do with my life, contemplating ending it all. It was only an old school friend who helped pull me through.
I have often thought about ending my life, but I have not followed it through as I could not put my Mother through that pain, she would never understand why I was not able to go to her. My Mother is now terminally ill with cancer and unlikely to last the year. As well as the fear of the great loss, I am also worried about what in my life will apply the brakes when I have suicidal thoughts. Even though I have not acted upon these thoughts I regularly go to bed hoping that I will not wake up in the morning.
To hear Mel talking about health anxiety was enlightening for me as for the past two years I have regularly found myself suffering chronic abdomen pains, accompanied by a strong sense of unease and the pains only go away after I have thrown up (usually only the once). I always put it down to an excessive amount of stomach acid but now believe it maybe anxiety.
I am off tomorrow and will be calling the doctors to go and see somebody as I am getting very worried for my future and need to do something now before I do something stupid, so a big thank you to BoW for prompting me to act.
Sorry if I have been rambling a bit but am writing things down as they come into my head, this partly due to a very poor memory of my past, which kinda worried me but having pondered on what was said this morning, I now think my poor memory is down to the fact that there is very little I wish to remember.
I almost forgot this is a hobby blog, and I will close this lengthy essay with how I believe this hobby may have a higher incidence of depression and anxiety, we turn to roleplaying and creative expression through our models as a means of escape, I know I certainly do, but at the same time I have a love/hate relationship with this hobby as I find it hard to focus on a single project, am always looking for a new shiney (not helping my financial difficulties), I spend hours looking at my models wanting to see them painted but unable to generate any enthausiasm.
But I do so love this community. I have belonged to several communities and Beasts of War along with Lead Adventure have been two of the most inspiring and supportive, yet at times I have nearly destroyed my place in these communities due to agreeing sales/exchanges which I have been slow to fulfill and on a couple of occassions failed to fulfil, mostly due to my having an attack and being unable to leave home apart from the bare essentials, if anyone reading this has been let down by me I am truely sorry and would like to end this post with an apology for at times letting the community down and a big thank you for being the wonderful people you all are.
I know there was so much more I wanted to say but perhaps that will best be saved for the professionals……
Thanks for sharing your story @elysium64.
Ramble away any time you care to as far as I’m concerned.
You are not alone.
I recognised parts of myself an number of times in your story.
Part of the way I cope with things is to find something I can laugh at everyday – I’ve built up a number of YouTube creators that can do this for me.
I also find that I need to cry on occasion and find YouTube clips of Talent shows, especially the musical ones, can do that for me. Whether it be the voice of the person or the story they share with the judges/audience.
I have come to realise recently that write is a good form of therapy.
It is a way for a person to get their story out of themselves and the reader can’t interrupt the writer, compared to in person where one can be interrupted by another.
My stepmother, God bless her, as written her story and is encouraging my father and myself to write ours. I have started to do so and have spread it around various sites but I’m planning on keeping a Word doc with those writings in it so that I have the complete works myself.
Haha I also cry during cheesy talent shows mainly voice and x factor. You have uncovered my guilty secret…
I like things like 8 out of 10 Cats, Black Adder, 0
I have been working on some scenery for my SLA project as therapy tonight about to update with photos after this with photos next.
Thanks for all the comment and likes
I will update once been to doctors.
While I was seeing one of the GPs at my local practice about one of my physical health matters she’d clearly picked up on something and started showing concern (welcomed).
“Are you able to find joy in things?” she asked. Wow! of all the questions I’ve had about such matters that one blew me away.
Yes was my reply, and I thought aout those positive things there and then and continued to do so for a while. Still am, and that includes getting to catch up with BoW/OTT episodes and articles.
I soon realised that thinking about answers to that question was having a positive effect. It’s far to easy to get into a negative spiral of obsessing over the negatives; interrupting by not only having positive experiences, but also taking time to remember and recall positive experiences can undo some of that damage.
Powerful words there.
Guys, thanks for this episode of the Backstager, Happy Sunday.
I also struggle depressions from time to time, I´ve learned about them and how to live with them. I do isolate myself some times, as I lost my job many years ago I thought about jumping in front of a car because of the depressions. I´ve talked to people about that, it was a hard time to go through, but now I have a new job, a better one then the one I lost. My wife keeps me up with her funny being, we have bought a house and now we have something to hold on to.
We, as a communitie should talk about that, we can help each other as Mel and the guys said. Depression is part of our lives in this time and age, we have to work with them.
Hope my english wasn´t to bad on this delicate subject, all what I have to say: Keep your heads up and stay the best communitie ever! Happy Sunday.
You communicated it perfectly mate thanks for sharing 🙂
This doesn’t feel like the day for a long comment but just to say well done and thank you for broaching this topic
and doing it so openly. I hope backstage is a safe environment to do so. Now I wonder how we can approach supporting the whole community – it is of course entirely your prerogative whether you’d be open to sharing this video frontstage (maybe on national health awareness weeks or something). I’d completely get it if not, but I think this is a topic that OTT can be seen to be a positive force in the industry. I think mental health challenges are likely to be a much higher % in our industry than the national averages.
And I hope Justin can share his story privately now and one day be able to help others by sharing how he came out the other side.
Marius Leitdorf rules. He’s a mix of Da Vinci, Hannibal, some Napoleon, Frederick the Great and just a sprinkling of Alexander dumped in a vat of Caligula. Any Character without flaws is worse than boring and anything that’s done in fluff to zero effect without a good journey is just as bad. It’s ok to not achieve anything so long as you really entertain people along the way.
@warzan you should try “Force on Force” even if you take it into a Sci-Fi setting. Just have Marines (Guardsmen would be Better) vs Cultists (or other riff raff) rather than US vs Insurgents. The reaction system is brilliant (Like Infinity but far simpler and faster) and the unbalanced forces make every game unique.
“Kicking Lloyd’s Toys In” may be the greatest Project title on OTT 🙂
If you have a Predator Game you’ve got to blast this classic that was always on in my local GW in the late 2000’s and early 2010’s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPIO86jTrQQ
Marius Leitdorf for Emperor!
The Force on Force Classified expansion has a Predator based scenario to bring things full circle 😉
Wouldn’t Armies Legions and Hordes help Gerry with planning etc. ???
oh I plan… and then it goes out the window 🙂
What I need to do is pack everything else away first so I can’t start anything else
I struggle with that too Gerry…. I really enjoy the planning, it’s the execution of the plan I have trouble with.
Especially as I’m somewhat of a perfectionist and worry about cocking things up.
aye, more than one mini/squad or even army has been stripped back and started over because of the outcome I wasn’t happy with.
I have to clear my work area regularly too. I have figures from Kickstater games in man cupboard (all the space the boss allows me, apart from the crammed shelves in the spare bedroom for the actual games) that if I am not careful I’ll forget which game they belong to.
I backed Armies, Legions etc, so have a nice shiny copy in the slip case with the first names of my grandchildren listed in the supporters pages, my problem is fitting in the reading, as like Gerry I start with a book on Roman legions then on Caesar then on the history of Rome itself and hours later I look up to find a dinning table covered in books and all I wanted to do was paint a Roman century.
My plan for tomorrow is now to tidy my painting desk.
This without doubt has been the hardest XLBS you have done and the best episode ever entered to the community. I was able to show this to my family and they now know it’s not just us that have problems, many of us have issues and it’s not just combat that causes it. It was for me, but for the family it’s the lost of the person they had before it.
I am so happy you used the platform you have to let the greater world know the issues that we all experience in our lives and that community is a great place to get positive vibes.
Our hobby is a great escape to provide many ups to our condition, with few downs. A win, win really. You guys keep doing what you do, as you are so much more than dealing with little soldiers, that is the in, it’s what comes out of it that makes the parts the whole life giving package.
Luv you guys, keep smashing it. Hugs all round.
Happy Sunday folks.
Mr Calgar has a very serious flaw these days… He can no longer fit inside his own Land Raider! Serious stuff!
I think this was a really lovely episode to have to be honest. It is very eye opening to me, I’m not struggling (that I know of) with serious things in life, I have a few minor little things that have happened over time and I have my mechanisms that let me deal with them perhaps at a detriment to myself at times. I commend you all for sharing, and I think this will evoke a strong response in the community!
Properly the most thought provoking discussion I have heard in many years.
First and foremost to Justin, Warren, Gerry and Mel. You guys have made a big impact in many peoples lives (mine included), Bless you all.
I have also suffered from depression due to a severe physical skin illness I suffered from for over 11 years. It took several years to rediscover the courage to start interacting with others again.
A few years ago I suffered a relapse due to a family issue and it has only been the last few months that I feel able to fully deal with life again.
To anyone else who is currently suffering, please know you are not alone and my thoughts are with you.
Well done for talking about this, I think it is an essential part of making mental health essentially a physical illness that affects lots of people, not a taboo subject or a weakness or poor morale. You wouldn’t talk about “suffering leg health” if you broke your leg but we still see mental health as something to be hushed up. It will help a lot of people that you have talked about this.
Although it was somehow unsettling that no one mentioned burrows and badgers.
I’m sure Zardos and his owlbear were probably chatting about burrows&badgers.
Great job guys,
@avernos, if you can stripe all them sandbags then you can finish those belts buddy. Keep at it.
@dignity, nice job on the reveivers buddy and looking forward to seeing that Dreadnought washed, it will really set off the model once black lined.
@mel, of course the boy will beat you, he’s a cadet so is probably far more up to date on tactics and asset usage than us combined. That and the amount of computer games he has probably played gives him a massive advantage.
@warzan, interested to know what type of table you see the tower going into.
Overall a heavy topic well handled, the easy way to tell is the honesty in what has been said. That and a quiet table. Good to see this brought into a community that likely has more people dealing with issues than they wish to admit.
For those suffering, what can we do to help. Could we help showcase events and hobby nights, local gaming or hangouts that would give you an opportunity to not be on the couch with everything running through your head.
This site is becoming more and more a great tool to help. With local clubs now being listed, lots of videos and content to help immerse yourself into even if only to give you a break for an hour or two.
Happy gaming everyone and have a great week.
“What can we do to help”?
That really depends on the individual.
Sometimes it is something as a simple as a phone call for someone you might not have seen at the club for a while – just to let them know you are thinking of them and if they want to talk you are there for them, and be ready to really listen.
Or go and see them to see if they are up for a walk – as Mel said it helps. In addition to the endorphins sunlight is important to the sleep cycle.
One can have a chat as part of that walk. And at the end, if you are both up for it, there is the possibility of a hug.
Or a trip out for a coffee or lunch
Those are the things my friends and I do.
A big problem is that you (the person with depression) see all these events, charities and things like that but you (the person with depression/anxiety) don’t get involved. Some people aren’t ready, some people are scared and some people just have zero motivation to go because every day is just brutal.
Everyone is different and it depends on the individual.
For me personally with my Health Anxiety if someone asked me how I was doing I would just instantly start lying and trying to get off the subject which would just make everything a million times worse because I’d start attacking myself for lying. Mel was spot on when he talked about the vicious self hatred.
For other people asking how they’re doing can be the difference between life and death.
The biggest thing that I’ve seen help other people is having a place they can come when they’re ready. A local club, painting group or even BoW/OTT. Getting back into normal life can be just as hard as managing the depression/anxiety itself.
One thing I would add is that for some people, especially introverts, being with other people can be quite draining on one’s energy. they may take a day or two to recover from being with a group. This is mine and my mother’s experience – we dwell in single person households, which could be a contributing factor.
Happy Sunday.
Don’t forget: We are not alone. The community stay together.
Best regards.
@warzan wow just hearing you talk about your Dad and hearing the emotion in your voice throughout this whole thing almost made me cry. I’ve got Health Anxiety and without Therapy I was wrecked. Every pain, every spasm was a Heart Attack. Every numbness was a stroke. I would stay home all day just because I was terrified of having a heart attack and not getting help. Then the panic just made it worse and it just snowballs. I am extremely lucky in that I can manage my Anxiety with CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) but for some people drugs are the only way to manage it.
If I can recommend something it would be to get yourself checked for sleep apnea. Sleep apnea can make your anxiety a million times worse because when your body is deprived of oxygen, during sleep, it releases anxiety and stress hormones in your sleep and you never come down. It’s not a cure but it’s another piece of the puzzle and it can help.
It sounds like you’ve already done the hardest step which is going to a Therapist. For anyone struggling with Mental Health you have no idea how much just having things pointed out to you can help. Learning about Safety Behaviours, Avoiding Behaviours and Checking Behaviours can cut down so much of your anxiety quickly and make life so much easier.
Mel mate fuck that was heartbreaking to listen to. If it wasn’t for you I never would have built any terrain. If it wasn’t for you and your channel I would never have run my Sharp Practice Campaign which spawned two excellent friendships because I never would have had the terrain to play on and the confidence to invite people to join me. So keep up the awesome work because I know there’s thousands of people just like me that you’re helping with your work.
@dignity mate virtual hugs man. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to discuss something. Discussion is what you do near the end when you’ve processed it. You owe us nothing and you don’t owe anybody else anything either. No one is entitled to dissect your experiences and know everything about you. Don’t feel guilty about not sharing an incredibly traumatic/emotional thing with anyone especially on a platform like the internet.
Thanks for your insights and sharing your story.
Well said on all points.
one of my favourite flaws from when i played warhammer was the green knight in about 3rd edition for bretonian where he had one wound, but could regenerate the wound on anything but a 1, if you rolled a 1 he ran away and you couldn’t rally him. He was pretty powerful but i always had the uncanny ability of rolling 1’s! infuriating but i loved the lore of bretonnia so always bought him to battles haha.
good old lost king of Bretonnia, I mean *coughs* unnamed Green Knight 🙂
Well done guys……it take real guts to open up and reach out…… what a fantastic way to give to the whole community……. Someone once told me that feeling down and lost and not sure where to go or if I could even go on etc is simply a strong woman putting down the load to take a breath….. accepting we are human and don’t always have to have the answers or smile on demand is a huge thing…… with you there Mel and childhood…..
I tell the kids I teach “I was given a hammer as my tool in life but I then had to choose: do I destroy with it (which would by far be the easiest and would make me heard) or do I make something with it (even if what I am making does not get the approval of others what matters is it is the best I can do at the time)
Think one of the most important things to remember is don’t torture yourself over other people’s reactions.
I still protect the feelings and reputation of a family who could not care less about me, even when I had cancer…..however I know by not stooping to their hurtful level I am being true to myself and can hold my head high.
Keep up the good, honest work
I looked through quickly at the Para Bellum rules and while there isn’t anything in them thats truly original it’s been done nicely in a slightly different way in regards to reserves coming on to the table
Not a big fan of the dice draw out if the bag. I think it gives too much advantage to armies made up of lots of small units. Even if the unit is crap it still gives an advantage as you get more dice from your better troops to work with. I think it would be fine if there was an interrupt system attached where better quality units on the opposing side could interrupt those being chosen for activation
Happy Sunday!
Fantastic backstage. Have suffered anxiety/depression following PTSD after a first aid incident. My brain hit the fight or flight roller coaster and did not file the correct response after the fact.
Also have had to deal with the other half suffering from a major disease with all the other shite going on.She needs a medal for dealing with that and everything I brought with me.
Love you @caileendeas!
Now some years after finally getting back to what could be called normal ( for a war gamer at least) it was a long hard road.Councelling does work.
DO get help, the GP, Samaritans etc don’t judge and can get you started down the right road.
Little things still can get me emotional, where in the past I would have just “ MANed up”
@warzan keep up the great work
Like MEL says if only one person gets help it is worth it.
Guys this is one person that you have helped as you know .I have spoken to you in the past at bootcamps.
This community is very supportive may it carry on.
Zardoz Owlbear would make great name for a character
he looks good sitting up there, I’m glad we couldn’t find our standard Ben stand in Owlbear
@dignity
As your handle imply’s you have dignity. You have friends around you that care and have offered to help and support.
Share with them what pains you to lighten the load on your shoulders.
I know it is a cliche but a problem shared is a problem halved.
See you in July….might even get @caileendeas to give you a cuddle to release those endorphins ? she might even lick your head again.
Hi guys,
This is by far the best episode of anything I have seen in a long time. After watching it my mind is exploding with things I want to say so I’ll try to organise my thoughts here as best as possible.
Firstly, this is exactly the right forum to discuss mental and emotional health. I say that because its so easy to skip over newspaper articles, ignore TV ads or throw pamphlets in the bin. Mental health needs to be addressed at a level people cannot ignore, and doing through their hobby community is, i feel, the best way.
For us its OTT or the terrain tutor. But for sports fans it might be the footy show or the equivalent thing. It allows people to hear about it from those they respect abd look up to, which gives it so much more weight. It humanises peoples role models, it allows them to not feel inadequate.
What you guys did today was brave as. And the only thing I’ve seen today thats broken is the glass inaccidently dropped in the sink.
Mel, hearing you explain the science behind the panic and anxiety was such a relief for me, as I often enough feel that pain when anxious and just hearing you and Warren describe those feelings of tightness and pain (which is exactly what I get) and the following telling of why they happen was so relieving.
But my big shout out is to Justin. It doesn’t take words to be brave my friend and I think today you proved that better than anyone ever has.
I see alot of you in me, and know all about walling up and isolating. Only recently was I able to find people I could open up to as keeping people at bay and building emotional walls has basically been my way of life for over 20 years.
And for us who do wall ourselves off, being able to even say “I’m not ready to talk about it.” is a massive step. Its the first part of us opening up, and it may seem small to some, I know personally how hard it is and emotionally confronting to say even those words.
So from the land down under mate, big hug.
And when you are ready to talk more, you have the best people there for you at the OTT studio, and here in the community that I could ever wish for you to have.
Love all you guys!
This episode has me wanting to fly my butt to Ireland to meet you guys in person.
So if at any point you have a strange (and dashingly handsome ?) visitor asking where he can buy some damn vegimite, chances are it’ll be me!
Thanks for sharing.
@avernos I’m in the same boat as you, in that I gave a tendency to jump from project to project. As you can probably tell by the number of unfinished projects I have on here lol. I never seem to get to the end of a project. I have started to call some items that have been in a draw for years. I’ve decided that this year I need to get better focused and organised.
I’m thinking about a project project log, where I can list what I’m working on, where I’m at and tick them complete when done. Then start working through those and ignore anything that may be released that isn’t on that list.
I’ll let you know how that works out
I think I need to do something similar.
On the subject of not diagnosing ADHD (and its variants) in adults, our son was diagnosed as a child, it was a relief to have a name for what was happening to him, we had something to work on/with, could work with psychologist and psychiatrist to develop strategies to help him engage in a positive way with the world. I had doubts that he would ever hold down a job, (Drives and helps maintain bulldozers so no worries on that score). So surely having that information as an adult should be as just as advantageous?
What a rollercoaster of a topic! As someone who also suffers with mental health issues, it was almost too hard to keep watching. But I am glad I did. It was tremendously brave to broach such a subject and I thank you for doing so.
I had a similar experience, I had to hit the pause button part way through and return to it after a couple of minutes.
The most powerful programme I have ever watched on the Internet
Let me tell you this guys, there’s not a pub or a bar big enough in the British Isles that would fit all the back stagers that would want to be with you today
This is the best weekender I have seen.
This is such an important topic. Most people disregard things like this or try to hide it, sometimes resulting in unintended negative outlets towards each other that can reinforce the negative state of mind the person might be in.
It is good that you have somebody to talk to ones and a while or having an outlet to keep you busy and active to get you back to a sane level of mind. If this is a good word to use, I have some issues with finding the correct words to express this, don’t hold it against me. This is also what the hobby represent for me and coming to places like this with follow like minded people. And giving me time for a moment when I can better deal with the problems I have.
Oh wow what a surprisingly different show..!!
Man alive, you’ve all been through some deep deep sh*t there. Mel in particular gotta say. This all makes my own life look like a Sunday afternoon stroll in the park to be honest..
You are definitely a bunch of tough cookies all and I mean proper Royal Navy Hard Tack (if you’ve ever tried biting into one you know what I mean!).
Very very courageous gentlemen, I take my hat off to every single one of you.
I feel privileged to know you and being part of this community.
God bless ya all xxx
Happy Sunday and thank you lads. Thank you so much for this episode. Really
Wow. Good episode guys. @dignity @warzan @mel @gerry Man hugs for all. As someone that has had depression for all my life, then chronic illness with diabetes and neuropathy for the past decade, I get you. I have a good group of friends that demanded I stop closeting myself off and got me actively gaming again a few years ago. I deal with constant pain, better living through chemistry until the natural plant becomes legal here, and have days where my vision goes or hurt to bad to get off the couch. The depression got even worse because of it. Being early gen x, I was still a part of the ” men never admit weakness” generation. It took a long time before I could admit problems to myself, let alone others. My 2nd wife and my kids have kept me going through the roughest parts when my brain and the pain had me at the breaking point. My gaming collections have been my distraction for a long time in that I always have another project that has to get done. Watching you guys for many years now, I feel as though you are extended family, even though we have never met and probably never will. I got your backs. Take care of yourself guys.
Thanks for sharing your story.
Sounds like you have a good group of people around you that understand you.
Guys and all you guys, thanks for this amazing, wonderful and thought provoking XLBS. It is difficult to talk about but thanks you did and I am and I am shall we all are here to support you and each other.
Thanks once again because this is something that needs to be talked about.
Love you all
Love you guys! We are a community on hobby therapy:-). Evading in our fantasyworld in order to cope with life.
Thank you for sharing your stories.
After I came back from the Gulf War I was suffering from PTSD but didn’t realise at the time. It was when I left the military and stayed back at my parents, i was drinking heavily and not myself, quite angry and got into fist fights. Fortunately NY mum was a mental health nurse and she spotted the all the signs. I was fortunate that my mum had the skills to help me.
I was fine for years, went to university and got married, then I went through a divorce and being made redundant at the same time. I spiraled again, the drinking started, started to ignore stuff like my hobby, looking for work. I was a mess and friends noticed before I did. Thankfully some of them were there for me.
I eventually realised I was a mess and relocated and stayed with family where I got better, but I came close to giving up at my darkest point. I gave up Irregular Magazine for awhile, but going back to it helped. I basically picked myself up with the help of family and got my life back on track.
I’m now happily married with someone who understands I’ve had a PTSD, her being a nurse is probably why. I’m now in a far better place I understand my PTSD and I’m able to control it.
Thanks for sharing your story.
I worked for 15 years as a support worker in Learning Disabilities and Adult Mental Health for the NHS. I’ve seen some of the worse effects of poor mental health and done my best to help people in those positions. I also have a bucket load of issues (As I imagine most of us do, but who knows for sure if our issues are “normal” in scale and quantity compared to those around us?). I have difficulty coping with social situations and I avoid them when I can. I’m fine with a small group of my friends but beyond that I run away, sometimes literally. Some of this is part of the nerd/tabletop gamer stereotype so it’s been easy to say this is “normal” for someone in my position, but I’ve often wondered if there’s something greater wrong with me beyond this being the mindset of a gamer. (Maybe some form of asburgers or autism. Maybe high functioning intermitten depression, or some social anxieties.) My gamer friends seem to cope better, after all. Over recent years it’s been getting worse. The grump I end up in from an isolatory party experience has gone from ruining that evening and the next morning, to leaving me hating my life, wondering whats wrong with me, and needing a friend to ask me what went wrong at the party and if I’m OK (I’m not looking for a deep chat, just to know someone noticed there’s something wrong and cares enough to ask) for two weeks now. I wonder if I should go to the doctor, but my issues feel like nothing compared to what I’ve seen, and I get on with my life just fine outside of social stuff. I go to work. I pay the bills. I sleep about as well as others claim to. I find enjoyment in things and I make plans for the future. I just isolate myself more and more because I expect to be isolated, unwanted, and forgotten so its just easier this way. It’s been my normal for so long I don’t remember not being this way and I wouldn’t know how to try being different. I haven’t really tried to celebrate my birthday for around 20 years because I expect people to be busy or not want to be there, or only turn up out of obligation and guilt and I’d rather be alone by choice than face that hurt. I don’t say anything to anyone because what can anyone say to make me feel wanted after statements like these? Anything they could say or do will just feel like I’ve guilted them in to saying something nice so I wouldn’t be able to trust it is genuine.
I’m not posting this because I’m looking for hugs from the community, support, or some PMs from anyone. I’m not looking for or expecting feedback. I’m posting this because I wanted you to know that it’s great to see a video like this within the context of our crowd. It helps highlight what is “us” and whats on top of that. It’s given me more to think about, and hopefully has highilghted a few things for others, especially those with less exposure to mental health issues than I have. For anyone new to this you should understand, no one is 100% mentally healthy, Its a sliding scale and it fluctuates from one moment to the next. There is nothing wrong with not being 100% mentaly healthy. We are all allowed to have our weaknesses, and much like what was said, mental ill health is no different from physical ill health. There is no blame, no guilt or shame, and no willing it away.
This should not have been backstage content. This should have been available to everyone. It also stops me posting this anonymously or through a new dummy account like I just tried to. Here’s hoping no one I know wades through the comments. I think I’m the only backstager I know in meat space.
Anyway, cheers for another great show. I hope you’re all doing well. Never worry about the content Warren. Everything that comes out is great, and even if it wasn’t or it dried up for a while we would all understand and be behind you. One of the great things you do is you keep us informed, either on a weekender or a quick Vlog so we know if stuff is going on so we can gauge our expectations around that. Need a break because life is too much, just let us know content is being dialed back temporarily and its all to plan. We don’t need to know your private business to udnerstand we are getting a quiet period.
Beautiful episode guys. Been suffering from mental issues for a long time and – thing’s like the BoW community help me to cope, and hearing you guys work it through is great. Thank you.
Fantastic show, hugs to everyone on the show and for everyone who watched it to the end. I’ve watched you guys for some years now and don’t usually post but for this show I just have one thing to say:
Please, please, please, for the sake of the wider community- make this XLBS episode available for everyone to watch (as long as you guys are comfortable sharing with a larger audience). This show will absolutely help people, so I really would like for it to reach as many people as possible.
OK, so you guys somehow did what I was thinking of asking to do yesterday. That’s great. But that warning right at the start and knowing how easily triggered (or you could say vulnerable) I am currently I’m really struggling if and when I should watch this episode. It’s close to 1:45pm here and I’m thinking about this for more then 2 hours. The openness @theterraintutor has spoken about Black Dog and all things associated with it somehow really gets me every time. Mel, you’re a wonderful human being and we need a hell of a lot more people like you in the world.
That being said, I’m now helping myself to a hot cup of black goodness (aka coffee) and maybe return later to this thread.
Take care of yourself @sundancer.
I found myself stopping the vid and thought about calling a friend after it finished.
Do you have someone that you might find it more comfortable if they watched it with you?
yes, I have (my wife, lucky me). She’s been through some things with me and that’s why I said yes after she proposed aaaand now I’m a husband, dad and stuff. 🙂
*hugs*
Thanks Gerry.
When you start talking about WH40k its like you are talking a different language . . .
Blown away by this episode, as someone who is currently suffering physical and sometimes debilitating mental issues it was a huge eye-opener and a great help. I’m almost speechless… Bravo!
@flatbattery just remember your not ever on your own ever need to talk reach out and have a hobby chat, im always up for one.
We are all imperfect in one way or another i mean even Scarlett Yohansen Farts like a docker at times….
Thanks for the support @wolf320f, couldn’t ask for a better community on this site.
I think one of things we start to realise once the topic of mental health is discussed is how many people suffer from the illness, and that everyone suffers in different ways. Most people these days suffer from stress and most of the time don’t actually realise they are suffering simply because the whole topic of mental health is considered a taboo subject to talk about. So kudos to the On Table Top crew and Mel for bringing up the subject today. It was dealt with in a very mature and understanding manner.
Great episode guys, as you say this community is not just about gaming!
Virtual hug to Justin, we’re all here for you mate!
@warzan you could have a good name for the print club, tongue in cheek named after a social picture platform “PRINTREST”
I can’t remember what hobby topics were discussed this morning but the mental health topic has stuck. You all need to be commended for bringing what I imagine was a difficult topic for you all to talk about to your audience.
I would like to share a blog with you, the author is my brother in law who has kept his struggles secret for most of his life – he is ok with me sharing this as he wants everyone to be talking about mental health issues too. He has struggled with addiction, depression and mental self-harm. As a warning, the topics and language are pretty blunt.
https://ryan15777.wixsite.com/website/home/
Keep talking and sharing, oh and happy Sunday! 🙂
Thanks for the awesome response guys, glad us opening up has helped a few of you.
I’m going to deep dive into these comments over the next day or two but right now, the lad is itching to mortar me off the table again. So, it’s daddy time and that’s my tonic, even if he is a bloody 6 fairy!
Thanks for all the support guys, the OTT community is just as awesome as the TTT one.
😀
Thanks for sharing your story and your insights, especially the medically related ones.
Wow… That was one powerful show, it has put a lot out there to consider, well done guys.
My life I would say has been pretty stable, but I did have a period a few years ago where I did spiral out of my normal situation. I was all triggered by the end of a relationship, in a way that was not particularly nice for me. At the time I poured all the blame of my mild depression and excessive drinking onto the end of the relationship when in fact I think it was more the cumulative effects of several things that had happened Inna short space of time including my marriage break up (different from the relationship that was the trigger). It was However my hobby and my friends that pulled e out of the spiral, and now I just take each day as it comes.
Thanks for sharing Rob.
You ready for some therapy tonight 😉
Great show.
For those in the UK who think they would like to see a counsellor there is a register of qualified people here:
https://www.bacp.co.uk/search/Therapists
There will be similar governing bodies in other countries.
Happy Sunday! I have spent the last 30 minutes writing and rewriting a comment, just can’t find the words. I will just say thanks until next Sunday.
Just want to say, thanks for all the kind words everyone, I’ve written out what I couldn’t say in the show and shared it with both @warzan and @theterraintutor, all we can do is take life one day at a time.
Great idea dude. Glad you could find a way to communicate. A lot of people can’t find the strength to do that in any way. You have a lot of virtual friends out here that consider you guys family. If you ever need someone to talk to outside your area that has no connections, so no possibilities of anything said coming back to anyone, I have an ear to spare.
we get to kill Goblins tonight WOOHOOOO!!! well yuo will I’ll just stand there completely useless 😉
HAPPY SUNDAY….lads once again you show you are more then just game/ miniatures channel. Brave and very infomative Mel you are a legend. Thank you lads all of you.
I’m in a similar situation to Warren. I am now on sertraline after a serious bout of depression before Christmas. I was unable to sleep and exhausted. I never got to the stage of harming myself but I was out walking the woods with my dogs on a particularly windy day and was thinking that it may be for the best that one of the trees came down on me! That stirred me to see my GP who has been great and the medication is working for me.
I was also diagnosed with aspergers (part of the autistic spectrum) last year. I had thought for a long time that I was different and couldn’t explain it. I self diagnosed before getting a formal diagnosis as confirmation though I was sure. Everything fitted and I have been able, with my wife’s help to make changes to the way we do things and she understands that I just need time sometimes.
My background, I spent 23 years in the Army and have done all sorts so couldn’t believe that I could be autistic. In that time I abused a lot of alcohol and spent a lot of time “manning up”. I now work for the ambulance service and understand Mental Health a lot more now and this helped me spot problems in myself.
I suspect there are a lot of diagnosed autistic people in this hobby, collecting and focusing on things to the detriment of others are just some of the signs. @warzan this may fit you by what you have said and it is linked to ADHD. There is an online test that you can do though this is not a diagnosis! Feel free to PM me.
May you all have a great day and talking helps as hard as it is.
Thanks for sharing.
One hell of an episode guys,so much respect to you all from me.I wondered whether to post here on XLBS or go old school with pen and paper and posting directly here won.Just a heads up,i may on occasion use harsh language during this post,not because it’s big and clever,but because I use it to take my pain away from me and transplant it to ” the page ” as it were.
I’m now 15 years into living with depression.The cause of which was a break-up,deepened by my brother taking his own life( shit,i’ve never said that ” out loud ” before ).As @avernos was saying,i’ve also never been away from work because of my it,i have always functioned enough to work.What does change for me,is my mood,my patience with colleagues and their fucking stupidity wears thin quicker than it usually would when i’m heading into / going through a period of depression.I have been more open about my mental health with a few friends,but at the same time,i experience bouts of massive doubt that I actually have people I can call ” friends ” and that I deserve friends in the first place.Alongside that,i am acutely aware of the stigma that still surrounds mental health ( I’ve seen the looks I get from people when I even briefly brush past the subject ).
I sit here typing and i’m finding it fucking hard to put my feelings down on the page,as though I shouldn’t be talking about it and putting it onto the shoulders of people I don’t know and that it’s wrong to do so.I know that’s bollocks and it’s my depression and paranoia creating that feeling,but when ( as now ) it feels so real,so right to give in,it’s difficult to cast off.I mentioned a while back that during a prolonged bout,i had ( literally and figuratively )closed the door of my hobby / man cave because just looking at the work on my desk was too much.Well,that is the case again now.What galls me more,is the fact that nothing on my desk is a big project,it’s just a bunch small ones that I have allowed to slowly grow and take it over.Again,drawing a parallel with @avernos ,it will undoubtedly lead to a sudden rush of hobby activity once I clear this current trough of inactivity ( whenever that may be,i’m too far from the light at this time to be able to tell ).
This hobby,my friends,the community here mean a hell of lot to me.If my flgc folds ( and it might,we’re struggling for numbers ),it will undoubtedly lead to a prolonged bout of depression,accompanied by self loathing,paranoia and very probably a complete break from the hobby.That will be a seriously bad time,as,the same as @dignity was talking about,i isolate myself entirely mentally and physically,pushing those around me away as I fall into the usual spiral of self loathing and complete inactivity.As I read this back to myself,it’s become a bit muddled,a bit like i’m beginning to talk in circles so i’ll end it here.
One last thing.I’d like to thank @dignity for accepting my FB friend request and just say that getting things off your chest,even to a stranger,is a good thing,so throw me a PM if you ever feel the need to vent.
Such powerful words.
Thanks for sharing your story.
You are not alone.
Thank you @hobbyhub .
That was a quite incredible discussion and video. A heartfelt well done to the whole team for the undoubted bravery that must have taken to put together.
I have followed Beasts of War since its earliest days and when I saw the subject of today’s video, a subject I think is incredibly important, signed up as a Backstager immediately. I was not prepared for the power of the frank and honest video, although your introduction was both useful and very well judged. I am incredibly fortunate not to be personally effected by a mental health condition, but I know several in my own community are and I consider it a duty to be as well informed on the subject as one can reasonably be. This video has hugely contributed to that.
Again, well done and thank you for your bravery in sharing the challenges you all face and are facing. What you have done here will certainly help others.
I’ll be honest, I haven’t watched yet, I’ll need to build up to it. My own experiences, both past and present, are a big weight I carry around and if it wasn’t for my kids I’d be long gone. I’ve lost friends and family to this illness, as recently as November last year. It’s a huge problem, especially in men, and especially in Northern Ireland. It’s great to see you guys have linked the contact details for various charities that can help. Might I also add the number for Lifeline and recommend to anyone, that in your darkest moment, you take a minute to call them before you take any other action — call them on 0808 808 8000.
For me, talking to people about what I’m going through has, for the most part, made things much more difficult, a lot of people don’t know how to take on that information or what to do with it once you give it to them, I’m talking about close friends and family here, not even work colleagues or whatever. I’ve had people completely back away to the point I no longer see them. It would be easy to say ‘well they were never really friends’ but the truth is they were. My parents took around 4 years to finally bring it up to me again and ask how I’m doing. I think what changed in that 4 years, and the reason they finally spoke to me about it, has a lot to do with things like this episode, getting it in front of people where they are, making it a conversation in all walks of life, showing how widespread and real the problem really is.
For that reason I think it is amazing to see you guys take to the show with a discussion about mental health, making it something that can be a conversation. The more that happens, the more real help will exist.
I’ll get a few things done today and try to watch later if I can.
Excellent show, very moving. Want to write something but not really sure what. Been living on and off with depression since I was seventeen (now 66) including a spell on a ventilator in ITU following an overdose. A lot of what was said was very familiar and true for me. Hearing others brave and strong enough to talk about their issues was very helpful. Thank you all so much.
wow a powerful XLBS indeed today, when i wrote in to @warzan it was to give a heartfelt thank you for keeping me going. my own story in short, i went from a fit serviceman to an overweight knackered hobbling old fart with chronic health issues and multiple degenerative conditions. i lost my ability to work, my wife, my house car everything so called friends as well. i had to start again from scratch and my hobby seemed a good place to start.
The gaming community and new friends made within it has been the best thing to happen in all the shite of recent years, they offered no strings friendship even though my actual hands on gaming time is unpredictable. My local gaming store second to none a place to chill with a cuppa amongst lovely people all with their own problems but also seeking that human interaction. During the hours confined to the house out of hours dealing with health issues i get phone calls to check im ok and talk games and have the antics of the loons on here to give me that fix, also building bridges at events like salute and the meet up evening piss up.
For me the Gaming community has been a life saver and some of the best people in the world to meet, not perfect, but just right by being imperfect themselves. i have learnt from experience that that common nerd gene is a wonderful thing and leveler no matter what problems you have we can always talk hobby to some degree.
Take today a group of men from varied backgrounds opening up about terrible personal issues, demons to be fought by themselves, yet while doing they for many years have bought a light, fun and distraction to many within the community with their own demons. just think we each have that ability to be someone else’s light no matter what problems we have our impact on lives is not always evident to ourselves.
If your having a tough time reach out say hello talk to someone within the gaming community or at your local club as from little things can positive unexpected things grow.
@dignity your not on your own fella far from it ever need a friendly ear get in touch,
Thanks for sharing your story and providing the impetus for the conversation.
You are not alone.
That was an interesting show. Thanks for sharing. I can’t say I’ve been to the same depths, but I do recognize how therapeutic the hobby can be. Whenever I feel overwhelmed just building or painting some minis can reset my brain.
You know at the beginning of the video when you said you were going to get deep, I thought you were foreshadowing a joke/ not being serious but then when we arrived to the mental health talk… I’ve been a back-stager for nearly 3 years, and I hardly ever post or comment, and that’s because I always feel like i’m just on the outside of the community and I’m fine standing on the edge of the party and looking in.
I’ve been having issues with depression and general anxiety for most of my life and what you were all talking about has really touched me. I only leave the house 2 nights a week to game a small group of my friends. I pretty much live in my bedroom… which is where my painting is and where my computer is as well… I don’t even eat with the rest of my family anymore. But over the last 18 months I went back to college, started painting more, and have been making an effort to be PART of the community (here and in other places).
The return to school has been a godsend… I was literally to a point where suicide was a near daily thought, and I would just push it off for any reason I could find. I was at a point where I was like, “Hey, its March, my ma’s birthday is March, can’t kill myself in March… maybe April… well my birthday is April… ok May.” But school has given me a sense of accomplishment (massive debt as well but that’s another matter) and I haven’t had a suicidal thought in almost 2 years. so I feel like I’m coming back.
I know some people reading this will probably be saying, “Why would you put this in public, you could have just emailed it.” But I wanted to share and you guys shared so much in the video that I felt the need. Plus if I didn’t write this right now I probably wouldn’t have written it at all and I would have moved back to the background and just lurked on the site like I’ve done for years.
Very deep XLBS this week but a very interesting watch. I too hide in my hobby but am mindful that i can sometimes neglect my family if i do it too much. Im very fortunate though in that i have been blessed with a wonderful life so far so cant imagine what its like for those less fortunate than i.
Glad you guys did open up though, it shows us how much effort you put into this community and i for one am thankful.
Happy Sunday guys.
On the gaming side of the show, I think you need a GM. It’s a participation game with 3x push-your-luck elements. It’s very hard to find a balance between some players being overcautious, others (naming no names) being reckless. With all this push-your-luck you need clues to guide players into not ballsing it up instantly, or being so reserved that nothing much happens. Keep that know-nothing gamer (or non-gamer) in mind as you design this.
I’ll no doubt weigh in on the serious side of the show when I get to it 🙂
thanks for great show
Awesome episode guys and probably the best use of XLBS time. I haven’t gone through all 3 pages of comments, but links like this can’t be repeated enough and I would ask one of the BoW guys to add them to the showrunner.
Contact points for folks in the States..
Lifeline: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ (1-800-273-8255)
MentalHealth.gov: https://www.mentalhealth.gov/get-help/immediate-help
@warzan might want to look here
https://www.studiominiatures.com/shop/turf-war-z/us-spec-ops-kill-team-487.html
Dear Beasts,
I used to hang out in the background and the chatroom a lot when I was younger and could log in at work. Over the last few years as life occurred I didn’t watch as much, was around the chat room less but I always try to watch what I can of the weekender and xlbs while manning the counter at my local gaming store each Sunday. Today has been a very quiet day which has allowed me to watch both shows through in full for the first time in a very long while and I am so thankful for today’s show. Today resonated with me and helped show me kinda why I game and collect as I do, its an escapism and release for me and thinking back over the last few weeks, things have been tougher getting through everything and I realise that I hadn’t been painting/modelling etc so much lately so hadn’t had the release mechanism. Thank you to all for what you do and providing this are/space/community and being there.
I once asked Warren in the chat during a test you guys were running if “you guys allowed hugs at your events?” Warren turned to the camera and said “my dog skip, at our events hugs are always mandatory.” I’ve never forgotten that and each time I’ve seen you at Salute I’ve reminded you and got my hug from whoever was covering (according to a friend I pretty much rugby tagged Justin once in the process). I won’t see you guys at Salute this year but I’m hoping to catch you at UK Games Expo instead, and I keep debating about renewing my passport and driving from Essex to see you in Ireland at some point :p
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for everything and being there.
Yours In Gaming
My Dog Skip
don’t worry about the passport, we’re in the north 😉 drop by any time but Wed, Fri and Sat are games nights so there are plenty about to roll dice with
1- I largely stopped playing Warnachone due to the you-go-I-go. Sitting through your opponents turn (especially during some feats) and not being able to do anything but wait and see what you have left, is demoralizing. 20 years ago we used to play 40k and each unit, vehicle and character was assigned a playing card and we activated by shuffling and drawing. Back to back psyker phases were interesting. I now stick to alternate activation games or infinity.
2- a few months ago I complained to Warzan that after the “trgiggering” warning that I did not like the direction the channel was going. I only wanted to hear about you soldiers.I WAS WRONG. Today’s discussion was deeply moving and thoroughly engaging.
https://youtu.be/j_R12ck1dNk
I found that this video helped me when I most needed it.
Some of the help on depression is given from heroes who have gone through battle trauma or who have been through horrendous personal circumstances that no one would be expected to get through unscathed.
When you haven’t been through that yourself I felt unable to voice my own pain because it paled into insignificance when compared to the troubles of other people. People around me need me to be strong, other people have got through worse, your feelings are weakness therefore roll up your sleeves and man the fuck up.
Surprise surprise that didn’t work.
I stopped taking my diabetic medication (pills at the time). Not because I wanted to hurt myself or kill myself, but because my prescription had run out. It was one extra chore, one extra responsibility that I just couldn’t face. My shift pattern got in the way me fixing the problem for a day or two (though I could even have done the thing online!) and I let it drag on for about 3 months. I was becoming unwell.
I saw the video above and someone from my community shared their pain and it resonated with me and I went to my GP. They offered me antidepressant drugs. I turned them down, not sure why, but it was a turning point.
I am often using my hobby time as a retreat. My home is a mess and I only periodically turn my attention to where it really should be and get stuff done. It feels like I need to fuel up on “me time” to face the chores, rather than earning the hobby time after chores. I know it’s the wrong way round, not the way I was brought up, but it’s the way I cope right now.
I love this hobby and the community here. If you’ve read this far, thanks for caring. A few tears on a Sunday has actually been cathartic.
My wife is away attending a funeral. My dog got hugs instead.
Love to you all. ?
Thanks for sharing.
I have problems doing chores so I’m trying to reframe how I think about those type of tasks.
To me, one of the drivers of depresssion can be a lack of selfworth.
I used to trick myself into tidying the house by inviting someone over for an evening meal. So what I was really telling myself was that I value them more than me.
I need to value “me” more, so I tell myself “I deserve to live in a nice place.”.
It has shown some success, I just need to remind myself to tell myself that more often.
I’ve been depressed on an off for thirty years (the first time I recognised it was 1987) and had my worst episode – a full-on breakdown two years ago. It had been building for the three previous years and ended in a very detailed plan to do myself in.
This time I was lucky enough to have read a lot more about people’s experiences with depression, and that planning suicide IS serious enough to go to the GP.
I went to my GP, then the mental health unit (quite urgently as I’d scared the fook out of him). They prescribed me Citalopram and I was lucky the first one prescribed worked. My experience of it wasn’t as bad as Mel’s (in the early days it’s like a tiny dose of ecstasy all the time) and I improved over time.
A little under two years later and I’m not depressed. This is recent, it’s been a long way out of hell. The big change is anxiety. I’ve known about depression for 30 years, but I didn’t recognise anxiety still it went away.
It does seem endemic in the hobby. Whether that’s that we can isolate ourselves with our paints and minis; whether that tendency to a solitary hobby means we’re naturally prone to being depressive; maybe we’re just overwhelmingly male and blokes do cope less well.
If anyone’s reading this and struggling: drop me a line. I’ve been through this and almost out the other side. I don’t one-up you, I don’t judge.
Wow, one of the most moving backstage episodes ever. I’m both impressed and grateful for the foresight, honesty, and courage you showed in addressing mental health in such a professional manner. In a large part because painting, gaming, as well as a couple of individuals helped bring me through very, very dark times. Times that seemed to only have one self inflicted end in sight. Counseling, medication, and losing myself in creating armies of dwarfs, entire neighborhoods of ruined buildings, alien landscapes, and mighty space warriors saved my life, literally. My counselor pointed out that I was creating worlds I could understand as well as control and encouraged me to do more. Even now, when things are falling apart, I can share pictures of painting table progress with a couple of close friends and I’m immediately reminded of the fact that my creativity remains healthy (one core of my self worth) and I am connected to wonderful people in my life.
The second reason I thank you is for the very fact that, as Mel stated, we’re all carrying something. We all face trauma and damage to our psyche to one degree or another. Personally I don’t think there should be any distinction between mental and physical health as the two not only affect each other but, in my opinion, are one and the same. I teach art to 11-14 year olds (many ‘Special Needs’) for a living, tutor mini painters of all ages, as well as encourage all aspects of gaming in my community. I have seen, and continue to see, how the creativity of and connections made in gaming help people heal and grow past the “slings and arrows of outrageous fortune”.
Mel, I’ve long been a fan and subscriber to Terrain Tutor, I gotta say, in all sincerity, I love you and what you bring to the community, now more than ever. On Table Top Crew, the videos, vlogs, forums, and project blogs connect me to real people, creative, fascinating people and if so then I might have some worth as well. It is such a comforting happy place for me I have no words to express. Now I love the Beasts of War Backstage more than ever, embrace you with my virtual arms, and give an especially big hug to Justin.
I love and value you all.
Every moving story, thanks for sharing.
I do not know what to write
so I write what I did after the weekender xlbs
I hugged my wife and told her this weekender is full of love. she looked at me and smiled.
there is always someone who wants to listen to you, you are not alone!
Paul.
Wow. What a powerful episode.
I had the privilege of getting to know Mel, @theterraintutor a few years back through little more than a chance encounter (and a whole load of betting scams we pulled to get through one Xmas, but that’s another story!).
He probably doesn’t know it, but he’s quite an inspirational character for me. I hadn’t realised just how bad things had got for the guy, which makes his story all the more amazing. Great to see you up and smiling @theterraintutor and am looking forward to one of your Stokie oatcakes and a brew sometime soon 😉
Warren, Mel, Gerry and Justin, Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Also to ALL out there who have resonated in any way to today’s topic, look out for each other. Cliched it may be, but, no man is an island, even though we as individuals seek this solitude from time to time.
Keep up the excellent community work that OTT/BoW are doing so well. We may not always show our appreciation in the most appropriate way, but it is always there.
Thank you again
Brian Bunker (aged 60 and has experienced much that has been discussed)
The best XLBS episode yet!
@gerry dunno if anyone else has suggested this but re Predator maybe reach out to the RAF gamers as they have run a game on the show circuit on the same topic so might have thoughts that could help…
Having read all the comments so far. I want to say how proud I am to be part of such a special community. Many virtual hugs to you all.
Once I can formulate a response I will.
For now if you need an ear (not eye as before the edit) or two I am here
I’m at 29:00 and may I quote @dignity “DUDE!” XD Do I have to look out for suspicious black vans now?
*stops blacking out windows* noooo *edges off*
You too Brutus? 😉
Knowing Warren’s preferences, I’d look out for dodgy ice cream vans
Those haven’t been seen here for some time… that would be more obvious than a stretched limousine 😉
That’s what @warzan wants you to think….Then you hear the chimes in the distance and wonder ” is that him ?” just before several pairs of strong arms bundle you into the van and bring you to Coleraine….
Excellent weekender. I won’t put everything here, but I have suffered with mental health for most of my life, I had a bad childhood. It got worse some 15 years ago when my mothers cancer came back and within months she died. I am and have been on medication for some years, they help to a certain extent. When I was seeing a counselor I told them I used to make airfix models. He encouraged me start it again. I did not want to make models, but what I did was buy some 28mm figures and paint them and it helped. On looking on the net to get ideas of uniform colours etc. I found you And was hooked. You were my friends and going out was a problem. Then oh, it must be three or four years ago I was talking to a neighbor and just said about painting my figures. He told me about a club he went to and insisted I go with him. I did and I play table top games with my figures now and have friends I can talk and joke with. My God does it help. Some days are bad but not as many these days. I wish to say thank you for talking about this problem. I have to say without this hobby I may not be here and you helped me get into this life saving hobby.
Name suggestion for the 3D printing format: “Onto the tabletop” or “Building with the community” or “Warrens Warez”
I’m usually silent lurker, with almost no posts. This time I’ll post something.
I love you all guys, thank you.
powerful episode, both in opening up but also having the ability to say that you’re not ready to talk. Respect to all in that discussion this is a subject that needs to be talked more about so that it is not a seen as a stigma, because it is not.
Blimey, that was deep! Not sure I’m comfortable “opening” up on a public forum like this but I identify with quite a few things you guys were talking about. @warzan I’m pretty sure I have ADHD too, my son was diagnosed with it 20 years ago and I see so much of the symptoms in myself. Gerry, I too surround myself with millions of projects that I am never going to start, let alone complete! @dignity I cna definitley identify with feeling isolated and I have to sometimes force myself to even bother to interact with people at all.
I am so totally with you guys. And appreciate you talked about this.
2 1/2 years ago me and another colleague lost our positions as group managers in our departments with no real reasons given from the managment. Possible reorganision. But we where not fired, we had to accept a demotion or go on ourselves.
I was angry, but you can’t be angry all the time, after a week so i was depressed. I tried to counter this by working harder and shine in work. But it was not recognised, i thought. So i depressed more. My new boss wasn’t really able to do all the extra work, i did as a group manager. But actually he had no choice either. I did know that, he had acute hearing loss possible due to stress. I was more afraid of him breaking down, than myself.
One year later all worker were informed by letter, what responsibilities we had to take on ourselves. So everyone started to work like they thought it was right, with not much direction given. Total mismanagement, there must be rules and direction given. The chaos in our enterprise is quite bad now, and is still rising.
Again i was angry and thought how stupid this letter was. Actually i first thought: More responsibilities for everyone, better payment for everyone. Nuts.
I was mostly not able to bear it anymore and really thought about leaving my job and my friends encouraged me on this idea. But i just reduced my working hours, because i was almost not able to go to work, I got late to work and left early. But it frustated me. Due to the chaos we were mostly not able to finish projects in time.
But then i love my job. I can be creative at my job (my job is product research and development) and help my colleaques with ideas and their work (not in a bad way i think). Sometimes i think i am greaser in a big machine, but should not my boss do this?! Heaven and hell can be so close at the moment.
So what helped me to get over this (not my boss and the management for sure. And we have the highest illness rate in many years). I talked to my father about this. He helped me in my descisions, gave encouragement, that i did not something wrong and that i still can be proud of what i am doing. And from time to time my colleagues give me these small acknowledgements of my good work, despite not being their boss anymore, but a good colleague. The times can be hard, but it is not my or our faults.
Friends are important and hobby too. They helped me to get my thoughts off from work. And i think, i now have much a better positive approach on the whole situation.
I stopped sticking food into me as compensation or doing too much hobby as overcompensation lately (i see a danger here too). Maybe we can return to this topic in the future.
Definitely the best episode you guys have done. Thanks, it felt good.
OTT3DP . Sorted.
Jebus… what a ride. Thanks guys. For everything.
Great that you made it through it.
Not really sure what to say, other than well done on tackling a very difficult subject. A slightly uncomfortable watch, a lot mentioned i could recognise from personal experience or from friends’. So you’re definitely not alone. Sending mental hugs to the team, mel and the whole community 🙂
Thank you. It’s helped a lot just hearing you guys share. Really puts things into perspective.
Talking about such subjects can only be healthy for a community so thank you @warzan, @gerry , @theterraintutor and @dignity for reminding us that we are not alone. You guys are amazing, this community is amazing, and I am proud to be a part of it.
I know that I use my local gaming community as a shield against the darker parts of my mind. My weekly club night gives me the strength to push through the stresses of real life and I hope my contributions help others do the same.
So, it took me some time to respond to today’s xlbs, the whole day to be honest as I couldn’t get the topic of the discussion off my mind. Still, I am not quite sure if I am the one to comment on this – being just a spectator from the outside and (luckily enough) only having experience with mental health issues second hand. BUT…you guys gave such a brave example on how to deal with a delicate topic (as it still is widely seen within society) by stepping up and telling about your innermost fellings and issues. And yes, sometimes when somebody is not able to tell and speak out it let’s you feel the inner tension even more. Hats off to Justin, Mel, Warran and Gerry, you chaps are great.
I would also like to put an emphasis on one thing @avernos said, mentioning that in Northern Ireland a higher percrntage of the population has to deal with issues of mental illnesses in comparison to the rest of the UK. The reason being the grim things that happend during the “troubles”. I just recently read an article in one of the leading German news magazines that scientists are just about to begin to learn that a lot of the today’s patients issues have their roots in the traumatas of the WW2 generation, may that be veterans or civilians. But as the times were back then, these things were not taken care of. So, the traumatas were never spoken out but silently passed on to the other generations. Now it is said that even the great-grandchildren generation of these men and women suffers from the war. Another thing about it – one might see how big of a problem this might be, when alomost everybody living these days is related to the war generation and thus possibly being in “danger”.
Now how do we get on? One simple – yet often overseen thing, at least in my humble opinion, would be to look after one another more carefully than we usually do. Just telling the pepole around us how valuable they are for us and our lives. Not for what they did, nor for what they achieved but just for being the person they are…Cheers.
Brilliant sentiment, well put.
Thanks.
Great episode, cant say it was an easy watch but sometimes those are the things you should watch.
Thanks for the episode one and all.
Love and best wishes to all of you.
Well then that was a bit heavier then I was expecting from an Weekender. Life does seem to kick you in the teeth at times.
This was an important show to have, so whilst it is heavy it is good to actually take some time out to talk about.
I don’t know if I ever suffered from mental health issues what I do know is I live with what is an immense sense of pressure on myself, what I mean but this I constantly question myself about could I have done better, not just within my work/hobby but at an even a conversation level (every little interaction), I analyse every aspect of my life believing I could have done or handled it better.
A couple of years ago I collapse after what I think was a panic attack my wife called an ambulance because she never seen me like it, I was in the middle of moving house, had a new baby (one of four) and was going through an IPO process with the job. I know at the time it was very scary and I felt completely out of control.
I hope this does not come across as wanker-ish because I do not want too but I constantly feel the pressure to do better, I work in a highly paid role meaning that the fear of failure can be crippling (I also feel a huge level of imposter syndrome).
I never spoken to anyone about this and mostly just pass it off as life and hey you want the big bucks this is what it takes. I once spoke to a coach about what potentially holds me back in securing roles like a CIO/CTO and we came to a sentence “I am not responsible for everyone’s happiness”
I don’t know where this is going so I will stop, I actually nearly highlighted the lot and deleted but in the spirit of being open I will post it, I don’t pretend to understand people with real problems because these are not. Keep talking everyone, certainly, BoW is a place for me where I can forget some of the pressures/worries and concerns in life… even if I do feel a fraud it the hobby as well.
Martin
One issue with mental health is people thinking to themselves that there are others that are worse of than me, I’ve got really nothing to complain about, so they don’t reach out for the help they need.
If a person is hurting then they are hurting and I would encourage them to find the help that they need.
It could be a short term thing, it could be a longer term thing.
Everyone’s journey is different, though they may share some commonalities.
People need to find what works for them.
It was an amazing episode. You made me cry guys.
I have been there too and I was raised in a way that man does not share about his weakness. Luckily, all my nightmares are long gone now and what I need to go occasionally are nothing to compare, I have an amazing wife that she is all but support great friends around and best hobby that people can imagine.
@dignity we all love you.
Well that was quite something. As someone who has also been through a traumatic childhood (including almost being given up for adoption, abuse at the hands of a grandparent, my parents fighting like cats and dogs, and then the suicide of my father – who I then later learned was not my biological dad…), panic attacks, near death experiences (or what felt like them at the time) and most recently a short lived and highly abusive marriage (yes, she abused me, which as a man is especially difficult to talk about…) I could absolutely relate to all of your stories and cried both for yourselves and for my own soul. Having earned a golden button half a year ago for my maiden project on the site, I have barely done anything hobby related in the intervening period, which Mel has now made me realise is probably down to sublimated depression sapping my mental energy and inhibiting me from doing anything much but watch YouTube videos of others doing amazing paint jobs or creating fantastic terrain pieces. I now realise I need to make a solemn pledge to myself to shake myself out of this torpor and start living again. You guys always seemed like such a happy-go-lucky bunch of Irish lads enjoying the craic and breezing your way through life, but of course there is so, so much more beneath the surface. Warren, Mel, Justin, Gerry – I may never meet any of you and you do not know me from Adam, but you touched my heart today and I thank you from the bottom of it. Best wishes to you all, Nick W.
Thanks for sharing.
Just reading your story makes me feel more inspired to do more hobby myself.
Thanks for listening and for your kind words!
What courage looks like. That took serious balls from all of you. If anyone doubts the importance of ‘opening up’ about mental health just have a quick look through the comments. Very proud to be a member of this community right now.
I just wanted to say thank you guys so much for this episode, I hope all four of you realise how important these conversations are.
Tabletop games are a HUGE benefit to my own and my girlfriend’s mental health, she has used gaming to takle her own social anxiety, she always says that when you are playing a game with strangers that there is no need for horrible, awkward small talk, you all have a goal and talking will come naturally from that!
In the spirit of sharing, I hope it’s okay to share my personal experiences with everyone.
What @warzan talked about with health anxiety and hypochondria really struck a chord with me. It’s something I have struggled with myself for quite a while now but never really processed until a few years ago.
10 years ago (pretty much to the date) I was quite ill. I was being told I had a chest infection by my GP but it turned out I had an enlarged heart and they also found a blood clot in my heart. I was very close to dying but didn’t really process that until quite a few years later. I was in the hospital for some time and thankfully medication has helped and I am better now (still on medication but that is a small price to pay!).
It was very much out of the blue as I was 25 at the time, never smoked, taken drugs and drunk very little. My diet was bad but could have been much worse. My dad had died of a sudden heart attack four years previous so, as you can imagine I was pretty much convinced I was going to die at any moment. There were some strange nights where I was in the hospital where the only way I could sleep was by convincing myself that if I died it would be okay because I would asleep and wouldn’t know about it. An extremely scary and strange time for myself and my family and friends but thankfully my health is much better now!
Being ill for a long time meant I had to give up my job as a cinema projectionist (probably a good thing seeing as I would very much have been out of a job now thanks to digital projection!), I was to ill to work but had to got through the humiliating process of a “fit to work” meeting where I was deemed fit to work despite medical professionals telling me otherwise. I had to sign on the dole and look for work that I couldn’t physically do. This beat me up mentally for a long time, I felt useless and a drain on not only my mum who I live with but society.
Being ill wasn’t only a negative though, I decided to turn the bad situation into a good situation, I decided to volunteer with local youth groups and gained a youth work qualification, I started doing stand-up comedy (something I have always wanted to do but just convinced myself that I never could, if you told teenage me that I would be doing stand-up comedy and doing shows at the Edinburgh Fringe I would have laughed in your face!), I started doing more with my band, formed a new band and the one that is most relevant to On Tabletop, I got back into painting miniatures, playing board games and wargames in a big way. I had a lot of extra time on my hands, what better way than to paint toy soldiers!
to get it back round to what @warzan was talking about, since being ill I have had similar feelings that if I feel in the slightest bit sick, have a headache, neck ache, saw arm…anything I convince myself that the worst is going to happen. And as @warzan said, it’s the same with people care about. I convince myself that when I come home from a weekend away that I will find my mum dead, if my brother says he feels ill I convince myself he is seriously ill and going to die. There was a time a few years ago when my girlfriend suffered badly with her mental health, she assures me she never felt suicidal but I would stay awake at night convinced that she was going to kill herself. I would have to stop myself from phoning or texting her in the middle of the night to make sure she was okay.
This brings me to my last point, that my girlfriend is the one that has helped me the most coming to terms with my own mental health, as I said she has had her own troubles with mental health, I would tell her how I felt about things and she would be extremely rational talk me through how she felt and how I could help myself or find help. Basically, she is the greatest person in the world (despite the fact she ALWAYS beats me at Dreadball!) and has helped me immeasurably. Another positive of being ill, I never would have had the confidence to talk to someone so amazing before I was ill, nearly dying can give you a bit of perspective it seems, who’d of thunk it?
Anyway, I’m sorry for the long and rambly nature of this post and thank you for to anyone that read it.
If anyone reading is suffering, if you feel up for it and ready please share with people, be it loved ones or people you have never met IRL on here.
Also if you do suffer from health anxiety NEVER USE GOOGLE!! I have trained myself not to but it takes all my strength now!
Thanks again, and much love to everyone on here! x
Thanks for sharing your story.
I drew some parallels to my own life.
Oh, and ramble away anytime you want – feel free to PM me.
love the tower.
Great episode this week guys, I saw myself in many of the stories told by Warren, Gerry, Mel, and even Justin! I don’t have much more to add to what has already been said, but please, don’t be afraid to reach out to others if you’re struggling.
wow this is a heavy one this week Guys we all have inner demons an life just seems to be getting harder to live in the older we get nowadays.
Great show guys.
I think like most people here, I really identified with several of the points you made. While it is always hard to do it is definitely beneficial to open up when and with someone you feel comfortable.
I have just one thing to say.
It is to Justin.
Whatever you do. Try to talk about it one day.
With a mate. Someone you can detach from at the end of the day. I found talking to family hard. Especially as my situation stems from family traumas. I wouldn’t say it’s the only cause of my issues a lot of it is to do with bottling up. I found a mate at work who I was just randomly working with and I found myself talking about it. Don’t force it. It will feel like you probably shouldn’t be talking about it at first. But Defo do it. Talk it through. Maybe not all at once bitesize chunks. Try Warren. I think he could listen. Be it a time alone have a drink and a chat. Don’t plan it just let it happen in its own time. Just don’t forget your friends are not friends if they won’t listen. Warren listened in that video. He shut up when you told him. If he was not a friend he would have kept blathering on. Talking helps mate.
Wow. This XBLS is the best pro mental health content, I have ever watched.
This put tears in my eyes, I hope you guys can keep on trucking and gain more knowledge on your stressors.
Last year, not following.. knowing really Gerry’s advice. I had a burnout with my career, I took a job that was completely unbalanced, it used me and my experience.
And I became mentally exhausted. If you have a mental health issue, let your employer know if its affecting you.
I did not, I resigned and forced myself to, what I now know, is anxiety, anxiety to function. This show, the Weekender and channels like Mel helped me, and are still helping me push on.
Still watching, cheers Justin. Out of all the crew I identify with him because I’m the same age, and bald. ;p
Good show guys, now to go back and see the last three.
I too have sought help on the serious topic you guys discuss, not easy to admit you need help, but in the end it is worth it!
@warzan and @justin. So I finally finished the whole show tonight, brilliant content.
Not an easy topic but well worth the time. Some day when I get back over for a visit I have a phenomenal story real story my father (the Army Chaplain told me about one of his experiences when he was in the Army) told me to ensure I shared with folks to making sure you take the time to listen even when it may not be convenient. Something I’ve always taken to heart.
In that light if ANYONE! Ever needs to reach out to someone who will just listen and only provide feedback if you want, I am always available and will drop everything to stop and listen, just drop me a message and I’ll get back to you to set up a Skype or FaceTime (even just voice) as soon as I can!
I am also willing to share my experiences and struggles with anyone! It’s one reason I was willing to post my behavioral health appointments on my Army work calendar for all my subordinates and superiors to see as it is a topic tha must be shared.
Take care my gaming family!
This episode really wrecked me! As someone who has struggled with depression, anxiety (in part stemming from my gender-related issues) I completely relate. I have been a wargamer since i was 19 *cough26yearscough* and only transitioned 10 years ago, i was and still am from time to time, treated poorly by the wargaming community. I too have struggled with deep hopelessness and depression. Having attempted suicide on 4 occasions, obviously not successfully primarily because i didn’t have the resources (not enough booze/alcohol/pills) or was stopped by friends.
I still struggle, but with meds and therapy, I have made a turn in my life and things are indeed looking up. Wargaming has been a huge boon for me. Made friends (and even met a lover through it), but just getting out of the house and not going to work, but rather to the local warhammer store, is huge for my mental health. Thank you so much guys for bringing this to light. As I was just speaking to my housemates about this, I thought of something that goes with this and the hobby. You don’t know what’s going on with the person across the table from you, and it’s best to be kind and “playful” and just have fun. Bullying isn’t always obvious, but you also don’t have to go easy on them. One of my favorite game recently, I was tabled HARD, but my opponent was having fun and joking with me, heck, he even rooted for me. My dice failed me mostly.
Thanks again, and blessings to you all.
And blessings to you too.
Thanks for sharing your story.
Wow!
I had so much planed for today but I got stuck reading every comment here for hours. 6 pages of comment and I could only find love among the shared stories and the supportive comments. I have been with BoW since the beginning and It has always been a really great and kind community <3
Sending hugs to @warzan @theterraintutor @gerry and @dignity for not only lifting the topic but also opening up and sharing their own experiences. I cried with you today, and recognized several of my own failing in your stories.
I have never really talked about it since Sweden is the same as the UK in the respect that you don't talk about mental health… Ever. But it felt good to hear other people having the same issues. A brave show and one of the best you guys have put out.
Hugs to everyone that has shared your own stories here, we know that we are not alone any more.
<3
I think the mental health portion of this video should actually put up for free as it is really important for everyone to listen to.
@warzan This XLBS has hit me hard and has meant a lot at the same time I thank you all for opening up as a vet with PTSD OTT/BOW has been a great part of my Therapy with my hobbies. I appreciate all the hard work, you guys do and thank you for all the great people I have met like G , Dawn and @oriskany I love doing the SitRep podcast great fun had every time I get on the mic.
Thank you again for everything you guys do and for opening up
Cheers
@armourygames – 🙂 You’re a huge part of the team, man. I’m sure I can speak for everyone when I say I’m always thrilled when you’re with us for an episode and it feels like something is missing when you’re not.
Guys thanks for touching this subject, its something we all need to talk about. We need to get the message out that its not a weakness to open up to our internal demons. At 44 I was told to by my doctor to go home and die as my cancer treatment hadn’t worked. Talking to other people helped me get through that first shock and got me onto the road to seeking out other doctors, Im now 52 and cancer free. I live in Toronto area ( Canada ) If anyone out there needs someone to talk to or just someone to listen, just PM me and im all yours dont suffer in silence.
As I have told Warzan in the past, this thing ( Beasts of War ) helped me in my darkest hours.
Thanks again gang
OK guys, I know the XLBS is part of your business plan but I really feel that the second half should made be visible to everybody. The subject is too important and too less spoken of as that I feel comfortable knowing it resides behind a paywall.
I won’t hold it against you if you don’t want to do it but please at least give it a thought. @warzan @lloyd this is you call but at least think about it, please? Maybe just the mp3 version?
Thanks for the XLBS anyway. 🙂 Cracking on time.
We spoke about doing this shortly after filming visited, we probably will – but it was pretty nerve wracking just putting it out to our closest community members if I’m being honest 🙂
Stomach cramps were turned up to 11 on Fri and Sat lol
I feel you. No pressure. I should have known that you are thinking about this. Cheers. 🙂
@warzan I think you can see that there is a lot of us behind the scenes who suffer with this awful condition and just think of the people who aren’t in backstage who also suffer.
Do you think we could help those by showing the video and all the comments from this post? As I said right at the start of this thread, I suffer and I have attached a link to hopefully help others not to suffer in silence.
And please pass on to Justin that my thoughts are with him and please tell him I was also frightened about talking about my feelings at first.
One of the larger issues with mental health for men is that for generations upon generations we’ve been trained not to speak about it, it was just taboo, you didnt speak of ailments and issues as it wasnt a manly thing to do. I really dont know how far back this goes but its generations because its certainly not in modern day where it started.
We’ve picked up the lessons that were taught to us from those that came before us, so when suffering we bottle things, even when people who know us sometimes beg us to let it out.
I’ve been through depression, I was foolish enough to avoid help but I was lucky I was helped through and out of it and hey maybe Im lucky because through that I learned how to get through some stuff. I think it made my natural stubbornness when Im in that state get a little worse if Im honest, I refuse to break and keep fighting.
I hit a massive state of burn out around 2 years ago which ultimately resulted in me quitting an 8.5 year career and eventually moving into a complete new one, which is a move Im glad I made but I can see now that I should have saught help when my friends first asked if I needed it. I was stubborn and I refused to “let myself down” and I broke as a result.
I guess what Im trying to say if yes we’ve all been there and if this random guy from Australia can be of any help to anyone he’d love to be.
Jason “The Bruce”
It’s late Monday night, I’ve not long finished watching the XLBS and worked through the comments, and in doing so I realised I never said “Thank you!”
Thank you to this community and the BoW team.
About 2 years ago I had an alcohol fueled-public meltdown post in the forum here, ignited by the breakdown of my marriage. Some here may remember it.
The community rallied around and gave much support. @warzan stepped in at the right time and closed off the thread, which I quietly appreciated later. Thanks @warzan. Looking back now I realise there were other, larger issues at play, at the time I was focusing on a symptom not the cause.
Thank you for today’s show, it was an important and valuable conversation. You’re all to be thoroughly commended for your bravery.
Great XLBS guys, you’re completely right to address these issues and you have mine and i am sure other community members deep gratitude for opening up to us.
Justin man, you are great guy, a valuable member of the community and an asset to humanity as a whole. When you are ready to talk you have a fantastic support network all around you there and you should use it.
6 Years ago i was living on the streets, my life had spiralled out of control and dissolved all around me. I was a new age hippy who couldn’t understand why the universe hadn’t manifested everything i needed on a silver platter. I had two sons to two different women who i was then estranged from.
I had come close to making two suicide attempts, the third time i broke the skin and i was building up to the forth and final attempt when my wife came into my life. She wasn’t in much of a better place than me and was living on a vandalised derelict narrow boat.
We have since spent the last six years crawling out of the gutter, from boat to tent to caravan and finally to the house we live in now. As a team we have worked hard and struggled from one week to the next. Things are still hard but they are much better than when we first started.
I have undergone a complete metamorphosis from the boy i used to be to the man i am today thanks in most to my beautiful and strong wife. My outlook, my philosophies, my ideologies, my expectations (From life as well as from myself) and i have gained a direction and focus that has seen me not only improve my mental health but also my lifestyle and has re-connected me with my sons and also my mother whom i hadn’t talked to in over 8 years.
I now give motivational talks and life coaching to new recruits that come though my reserve unit and i have received great feedback that proves that even though what you think you are going through is the worst thing in the world and that you can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel, i tell you now, the light will come and after it does you will then be equipped to not only change your own life but the lives others as well.
The links you guys have provided are great and i would like to recommend a couple of YouTube channels that have helped me immensely in recent years they are Impact Theory: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnYMOamNKLGVlJgRUbamveA that is run buy Tom Bilyeu
Also the channel Motiversity: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAPByrKU5-R1emswVlyH_-g which a fantastic source of 5 to 30 minute mental pick me up videos that are superbly made.
Everyday for 2 months i watched one Impact Theory video and 1 Motiversity video, as Mel so rightly said, your subconscious is a survival machine, you can re-programme it to WORK FOR YOU, NOT AGAINST YOU!! It works, It’s great and i hope someone reading this tries it and benefits from it.
Awesome show guys, you should all be so proud of what you are all doing and what you have achieved.
To Justin and anybody else in this community, i offer my time and skills as a life coach to help or to just be an impartial ear to talk to, just PM me. I am here if needed, for this community i will never charge a penny.
Hail OTT.
Wow, very powerful truths.
Thanks.
Great episode guys, actually one of the best. Thanks so much for all the honesty 🙂
A ground-breaking episode that gave me goose-bumps.
Personally, it’s only recently that I’ve thought about this subject at all. I thought my mood swings (periods of being so happy that I’m buzzing, periods of bleakness when I don’t want to do anything but drink – no middle ground) were completely normal. Taking a very hard introspective look at myself and how I interact with others, including colleagues and family, has made me change a few things about my life.
I drastically cut down on drink, eat better, spend much more time with my wife, play Conan Exiles with my brother every week (we previously wouldn’t talk for 6 months at a time), and worry less about work stuff. My wife has been great at helping me keep things in perspective. When work got crappy she would say “Just quit. I’ll support you.”
These changes have made things easier. I’m generally in a better mood and feel physically better in general. I still have bleak times, but they’ve become shorter and easier to manage.
That’s my experience.
Thanks OTT
Wow, this episode got my tears out running, I just want to say that I really love you all guys, and Mel I love you as a bright human being, you done a master job because I never thought you went through so much because of how you transformed yourself through your hobby and the joy of sharing it with us.
I must also say that Beasts of war was and still is my refuge, when I discovered your channel many years ago in your early days, I was immediately hooked not just by the content you offered but also by the environment and the people who were making it, Warren
s energy and child like happiness and enthusiasm gets me upbeat about what im doing or what else I should explore. I discovered many great games, tips and tricks to make my gaming and hobby more rich and joyful thanks to you guys. I felt your pain as you opened up throughout this XLBS and admired your courage, you confessed more than I have the courage to confess, I often had anxiety to think of what happened if my beasts of war is no longer in existence and fantasized of winning the lottery and rid you all of any financial stress just so you can continue to exist. this community you fostered is my refuge and it is for many others, this hobby and the people in it helps me run away from my demons and anxieties to find the strength to look up to a brighter future and to show my children what being a nerd/geek is all about, friendships, camaraderie, fun and creativity.To all the beasts, my love and gratitude.
Dean
Great episode. Enjoyed hearing people’s personal experiences. I only want to say that Sean Connery in a diaper riding an owlbear is a good metaphor for my own mental health struggles.
Wasn’t sure if I was going to do this…
Last year, January, my world fell apart. I separated from my wife, leaving behind a 9 month old baby. It had been building for a while I guess but it was at a stage where realistically I couldn’t stay there. Over the course of the preceding 12 months she had threatened to report me to the police for violence and regularly used our daughter as a bargaining chip; on two occasions I came home from work to find them gone and when she decided that it was time to talk she returned alone. In order to see my daughter again I would have to agree to whatever demands she was making. I stayed because we had a child despite not being happy and in January 2017 there was another row and I decided I couldn’t risk staying there anymore. She was starting to press buttons that I couldn’t risk being pressed and she knew she was pressing them. The decision whether or not to stay or go stopped being about my daughter and it became about me because it doesn’t matter what events lead up to it, as man if you snap and lose control of that anger and let it turn to violence, especially against a woman, you’re finished. It doesn’t matter what happened prior to that, you’re now guilty of domestic violence. So I removed myself from that situation to protect myself and I went to stay with my brother. Over the next two weeks I think I decided I couldn’t go back – I wasn’t happy moving out but I at least felt safe. I didn’t see my daughter for almost a month.
Fast forward 14 months and things have improved in some ways and got much worse in others. I see my daughter regularly – she stays with me Fridays and most Saturdays. But I am still having to live on other people’s charity. My brother doesn’t charge me rent, I regularly have to borrow money because I am still paying the mortgage and all the other bills that come with that despite not living in that house. My car has let me down several times in the last 12 months and has cost me well over £1000 quid, probably closer to £2000 if I cared to count to the point where what little savings I had have now gone. My car broke down again this week, the day I was supposed to take my daughter away for a weekend – after I had already paid for accommodation – and although I managed to borrow a car off my parents I am still left wondering whether I can afford to pay the bill when it gets repaired and having to take more annual leave because I can’t get to work. I don’t really get to see my friends any more because I can’t go out at weekends – even if I could afford to – because I have my daughter. If I want to go anywhere or do anything I have to make a choice between what I want to do or seeing my daughter – something that has been used against me over the last 12 months when asking for a weekend off so I could go and see my best friend on his birthday. I have tried asking for alternative arrangements around my daughter so that I can have a life as well and have been refused – there’s things I can do legally but sadly they require money that I don’t have. So right now I am not really living, I am existing. I’m eking out a living on what little is left of my wage each month whilst constantly worrying about the next car breakdown or surprise bill. Every time I have to be bailed out it just steals a little bit more if my self esteem. Even when I can afford to see my friends I am constantly reminded when I do that in doing so I have chosen not to see my daughter. Every Sunday when I clean up all my daughters things I feel numb, like I am being sent back to prison after a day of freedom. And there is nothing I can do until I can sell the house. I actually went and got help last October but I wouldn’t say it was a success. Because my mind is too analytical (I write and test software for a living and my mind views many things as truth tables), so many of the coping mechanisms that I was shown my mind tells me “you’re not kidding anyone”. I can’t tell my mind to pretend my problems don’t exist because they so obviously do, but I am totally powerless right now to change any of them, so for the foreseeable future nothing is likely to change.
And that’s basically where I am. It’s taking its toll, it’s wearing me down, it’s completely destroyed my confidence and it’s having a huge impact at work. There’s things I used to do routinely that I now have to spend hours, sometimes days, psyching myself up to do. I can see why people consider taking their own lives because I have considered it so many times. Like Warren said, you eventually just get tired and that’s how I feel, so incredibly tired. It’s like, I just need it to all to end and I don’t really care how that happens, and end is an end, positive or negative. That’s the thought that goes through my head when I think about it. I have even researched it and (thankfully) found myself quite averse to most of the methods. I have driven home from work on the motorway and those big concrete bridge supports look mighty tempting. But then it’s silly things that keep me going. Like, “Don’t be silly, you can’t crash your car into that bridge, think of the Chaos you would cause, it wouldn’t be fair on all these other drivers”. I guess I’m still here because I am both squeamish and polite.
Here you go my friend … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLbIbrKVGSk and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCGrINPGUQ … hang on in there, i believe in you, i was you, you can be me 🙂
Was full time carer for the my two elderly parents and can seriously sympathise with you feeling of existing,I found that as the longer it went on I seemed to be disappearing from the world to the point that if above were visited by medical professionals I was totally ignored unless they wanted me to do something or something they wanted wasn’t avail. I did love being told after they had both died that I couldn’t enrol at an employment agency as I had been un-employed for the 3 years above!Its a good thing guns are not legal , think I would have shot them!
I think you have hit on something there. All of my friends live scattered around the UK, which was never a problem before. Getting to them was easy because I wasn’t destitute. And when I couldn’t see them I lived with my wife so I was never really alone. But yeah, struggling to go out and see people because I either don’t have time or money – it does feel lonely.
OK, It’s taken me a little while to properly go through the comments, as you can imagine, the show rattled my nerves and so I’ve had to wait until I’ve finished recording all my kickstarter stuff but I dived in because I knew these comments were going to rattle me some more. I don’t think any of us (me or the OTT team) were ready for this response, so they did rattle me but I’m good guys.
I had hoped that I could answer everyone individually, but to be honest, I don’t think it’s going to be possible to answer such an awesome honest open response and be in a sane state to launch this kickstarter at the end of the week, so I’m just going to say to all of you, thank you so much for your openness and support, it means so much me.
Now there’s been quite a few calls for this go out front stage and although I can see why, I’m going to say can we at least hold off on that. After filming this segment, there were some serious talks about whether we should put this up. We took a leap of faith based on the fact that it was going to the backstage community, a community we felt we could trust.
Based on that, there was a lot of open talk, perhaps far more than if we had filmed the segment knowing it was going out public. So with that in mind, all four of us need to be completely happy with it going out to a much wider audience.
Now, that’s ok with me but my biggest concern is actually it negatively influencing my kickstater, it’s a very big deal for me and my family and so I’m genuinely concerned that this segment might give people the idea that I won’t be able to complete the project (which isn’t the case) but I really can’t risk a red flag, so at the bare minimum, I’d like to run my campaign first folks.
I’m gonna wrap this up now before I get too emotional but just let me say thank you, you are not alone and there is nothing to loss by talking to someone, anyone, so if you feel the need to talk, just talk to someone guys and never think that the world will be better off without you, because it genuinely won’t!
You lot are amazing, thank you!
I KNOW your kickstarter will be a success and you can manage it, not despite your struggles but BECAUSE of your struggles. THAT is what has made you what you are and what WILL carry you to your personal greatness… Here you stand… I for one stand with you : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqFFz8-A0wE
Hey Mel, no worries. If it troubles you then @warzan and the others surely will leave it in the Backstage until the Kickstarter has finished. Family comes first. See you.
This one needs to be opened up to the whole community, not just the backstage. I have a number of friends who need to see this who are gamers who don’t necessarily frequent this site.
Happy monday folks
(Sorry I’m late but I have note from my mum! 🙂 )
All I can say is, well done guys, hugs all round
Great ep guys. I’m not going to go on about my own issues with mental ill health over the years other than to say the hobby and the friends I have made through it are priceless and part of the reason, alongside my family and my faith, why I am still on this earth despite great temptations to leave it. You guys, even though “virtual” are part of my friendship group and help my hobby and help, therefore, my mental health. As you say, mental ill health is common and should be nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes it has a cause, sometimes it is irrational. Sometimes it is depression, sometimes other things. Whatever. It doesn’t matter. The more we talk about it the more we understand ourselves and respect each other and more we can get over it and get on with life.
Great show. Thank you for making it. It’s great to know I am not alone, and I hope you fully understand you are not alone either. I am sure you do.
For the record. Everything you have done as a group of guys for us as gamers is really appreciated by me. It is a great community. I really, really appreciate it and the benefits of being part of it go far beyond my hobby experience.
Whoa, only just caught up with this weeks show as out all day yesterday.A very Brave show for all, and boy do I feel better for watching it. I’ve been through councelling so nearly a case of got t-shirt. 21 years working for a certain Gov Dept left with a phobia about working and dealing with Gen Public , to the point that when my current employer tried to work on a public phone line ( despite warnings and me giving them a report from previous employer) I ended up in A+E for an irregular heart beat, IBS and my right hand paralysed when my tynosynovitus flared up , the exact symptoms from last time I had worked with public.
As Mal pointed out I think because it was a not initially seen as a physical problem, just me over reacting . Yet for me this public phobia causes my body to almost react like a physical allergy , and is just as dangerous. @warzan I feel your stomach spasms , my hand is in sympathy , but luckily my heart is behaving at moment. It is a phobia that has effected my hobby life, I used to put on demo and participation games at shows quite often winning best game at local shows, and due to the problem this is no longer an option, to give everyone how bad it can get, I was suffering with it at the Wulsung Bootcamp when I 1st arrived . Luckily It was quickly disapated by the friendly crowd and great welcome from yourselves, though think Justin noticed I was quiet at times. I do know that through the worst of my various family and life crisis’s gaming has helped me survive and as @warzan said became my happy place. Painting Mini’s is my switch off plus tends to un freeze my right hand. So after watching your thought provoking show I no longer feel unusual in having gone through it. So thanks !
Thank you all for that, I think I needed to hear it. It is not easy to talk about this stuff or finding the right time to say it, and some times not even to find words.
Communities like this one are built on common interests but reach out past the simple entertainment aspect we originally came here for. My final year at university was in hindsight a time of depression (of some sort) and I became more isolated, anxious and felt pretty useless as I struggled to find work after graduating. My friends moved on and my social circle vanished. Eventually I did get a job but working for an abusive boss who made me feel even more useless on a daily basis. I didn’t get as far down the rabbit hole as Mel described, but like him I began to consider some dark options.
My lifeline was playing and being heavily involved in the EVE-Online community throughout this period and for the decade following. While working for that man, and around my lowest point, I decided to fly out to Iceland and attend Fanfest, EVE’s annual player gathering hosted by the developers. The sense of community and belonging I got out of that one long weekend was phenomenal. I met people in person four the first time but had known them for months and even a few years by then on the other end of a screen. I had friends around me and discovered I was valued for things I had achieved in that community in a way I did not expect. Two months later I handed in my notice on that job and started moving on with my life.
I am 12 years into a different career now, married with pets. Life has been so much better but there is always challenge and lows to get through. My wife has mental health issues and needs a lot of emotional support. Lately I have been struggling a bit with a lot of low level family and social issues dragging me down. I think I have been withdrawing more than I should and need to work on that. I think a friend of mine might need a bit of a shoulder as well so I might start there and reach out a bit.
So yeah, thanks for the talk guys. Let’s keep working on us.
This was a great episode I don’t always get to watch because of depression. But it is one thing have have found with this game comuntey be war games or Roleplay the people are much more willing to talk about they things and be shoulder to help you when you need. Thanks again. Sorry about the bad spelling and grammar i have rather bad dslyxis and one of the reason that has stop me starting a project on here and also coming on here.
Don’t let anything stop you feom
Commenting or posting a project mate. It’s the gaming and the minis we’re interested in. If there is something you want to log as a project go for it.
If you are worried about the spelling send me a copy as a message and I’ll proof it for you.
Thanks Gerry I will do that, there area few things I was think of so, when I get set with the one I’m going to do then I will drop line. Big thanks fella.
Wow! That was awesome! Nicely done guys! Man hugs all round!
Thank you for talking so openly about your struggles and experiences. Don’t underestimate the importance and impact of doing so. Speaking about the difficulties you face can give others the strength to do the same and the understanding that they are not alone in their struggles. It’s truly inspiring to see everything that you have all accomplished. Building the communities you have is an amazing thing. You’ve had a huge positive impact in my life and the lives of many others. Thank you.
Well, I finally got the chance to sit and watch the full episode.
And…. No words. I have no words to describe it. And I have no words to describe how similar my path has been. I suppose that I could something like me too, but that # is for a different worthy discussion. 😉
Ironically, my deployment to Iraq allows everyone to accept my ‘quirks’ more easily. It can be more readily accepted that an odd behavioral trait can come about from serving in a warzone rather than a childhood in a rough town where the primary commandment is “Thou Shalt Show No Weakness.” At this point I have almost no Flight component to any Fight or Flight situation I find myself in. My high school experience taught me that flying from something, betrays a weakness, and just leaves an antagonist at your back waiting to ambush you again. and that such a predator needs to be dealt with emphatically and in a way that is unambiguous to even the most dim-witted knuckledragger.
Fortunately, I found Shotokan Karate-do, through it and close study of zen, bushido and chivalric codes I was able to build a framework around those imperatives in order to stay out of trouble.
Enough. It is “Know Yourself” time and I know that I need to stop typing and go to bed before I get into a loop like you were discussing.
“In a world where you can be anything. Be Kind.”
Thanks to all those that have shared their stories, shown support and the presenters for their openness.
To those people suggesting that this go on Frontstage, please remember that usually means hosting the video on YouTube and thus the whole entire world can find it.
YouTube comments aren’t generally known for their civility on some of the channels I frequent = I haven’t done a deep dive on the BoW ones and the team could close off comments for that video – but it is asking quite bit. After all as @warzan is want to say at the start of an XLBS – “We can relax, we’re amongst friends” or words to that effect.
I think we need to give everyone a chance to take in what has been related via the video and comments section…. Perhaps have another sharing session, two or three…
And then do something purpose built for the Frontstage, with various helplines and websites in the descriptions here on OTT and YouTube, perhaps with the assistance from willing Backstagers ready in some support role.
We don’t know what responses the team has received via PM, email, Facebook, etc….
I would guess it has been pretty overwhelming – I sent Warren 2 emails myself.
Some of the presenters may not be used to this level of openness. I’m pretty open myself but I know not everyone is.
@warzan – not a bad idea bud, maybe a front stage show where we have a structured talk, more the the biology of it like I did with anxiety, do a bit of demystifying mate.
Perhaps for UK or World mental health day?
Brilliant and brave! It would be nice to offer some pearl of wisdom but truth is I’m lost for words. If I have learnt anything from my own experience its that black dogs are often complicated. More than some of us have black dogs that we dont want to admit to. A too few of us understand why we have them. Either way, talking to others is the only way for anyone involved to get a grip on them.
And speaking of being open…. Here goes….
So I’m 55 years old but I’m only going to take you up to the age of 27/28. There is more story after that but…well… reasons.
Sorry in advance for the length.
I was born in London, UK, in 1963. All of my 3 grandparents, 2 uncles, 1 aunt, and 2 cousins lived there at the time. At the age of 4 we moved out into the Kent countryside for my dad’s job. after a while he got made redundant and he did a lot of job hunting. Eventually we took advantage of a scheme the New Zealand government was running, looking for teachers, and emigrated here when I was 8 and quite fat (I think I was stress eating, upon reflection). We moved around the South Island of NZ a couple of times, settling in Dunedin, and a remote part of that town at that.
This made us a tight knit and isolated family of four – I had a brother that was less than 2 years younger than me – and in that day and age not much contact with an extended family.
My father is quite controlling and a bully, as was his father before him.
When I was 21 my parents separated, my mother was well sick of my dad by that stage, and after a short while he moved in with the woman that would be my stepmum. I joined them soon after, after a big falling out with my brother over a car. Already in the house were 2 boys that would become my step-brothers.
A year later I graduated from university and after the ceremony my father decided to get me into a state of almost crying – he doesn’t like it when things aren’t about him and seems to want to prove that he is better than anyone else, belittling people to make himself feel superior, I guess…
At the age of 22 my baby brother died. I was 24 and it was the day before my stepmum’s birthday.
I knew he was in hospital as a bank teller let it slip – my mother, brother and myself have the same initials, another controlling thing my dad set up – as I was explaining which person I was of the three in the bank’s system.
I told a couple of my friends that he was friendly with, they went to see him in the ward but the message came back that he didn’t want me to see him. We hadn’t spoken much in the last 2 years. He had Crone’s Disease and died as a result of blood poisoning after an operation.
Here comes the blunt bit – I got to see my baby brother’s dead body, but because they didn’t know why he had died at that point they had left him as they had found him, just wheeling him to the morgue…and his eyes were open Still effects me to this day and is part of the reason I believe in some form of afterlife as his body was like a husk – I think he had lost weight since I last saw him and he was on the thin side before that.
I even had to referee between my father and mother the funeral arrangements, with the Funeral director caught in the middle. At the funeral itself I got surprised by a young Maori woman that though of my brother as her boyfriend and a big contingent of Maori people that had come to pay their respects. Part of their tradition is to give the grieving family money and since my mother wasn’t there – it was too much for her – my dad got it.
At the age of 26 I had my first serious girlfriend and we found a flat together. She was 19 and I think looking to escape a bad family situation. I dumped her (really hurt her), we got back together and then she dumped me – she (now just 20) wanted to get married and I (now 27) wanted to wait a bit longer, not that we expressed that well to each other. It devastated me.. Phoned my dad and the first thing out of his mouth was “GOOD!!!”.
The following year, still living in the flat we had shared, I took a part-time course at university as well as doing a full time job – I got time off for lectures. The course was in Communication Skills and was just what I needed…
One day one of the lectures asked to see me in her office after class.
She said she thought that there might be something wrong at which point I just broke down and cried… She sent me to Student Health that sorted me out a counsellor to see.
Seeing that counselor was one of the best things I have ever done. I was with him for two years and we only stopped as he moved away but I was ready for that.
Thank you for telling your story. I’m so sorry about your brother. All the best
Thanks, that means a lot.
Thank you. That is all the words I can find at the moment.
Man, I need to buy a friggin’ 3D printer!
Man. Heavy topic but worth while talking about.
Oof! Yeah, I’ve been on Sertraline. It helped, but eventually I noticed that while the bad emotions were mostly gone, so were the good. After roughly a year, I was a robot. I came off it after I realised this and have been a lot happier though I still suffer from bout of depression and anxiety. This is annoying as really, life is pretty decent. I try to use positive thinking to help reinforce what I know, but it’s tough. It has lead to excessive drinking but I’m working on that too. Saying that, I’m glad Sertraline is helping you Warren.
Jesus Mel. Sounds like you had a hell of a time. Glad that you seem to be doing some much better these days.
Hope you’re doin’ okay Justin.
I’ve been a back stager for 7 years and have left a total of 5 comments ever. In 7 years I’ve gone from married with someone I had been with for 13 years to now living somewhere with no friends, no roots and what felt like nothing. I too went through the only suicidle thoughts at that point of my life ever. It’s always been a foreign concept to me until that moment.
But now it’s turned around I have friends I’ve rebuilt myself and even met someone else who’s incredible. But the main reason I’m now commenting is you guys talk about having a safe place or even some normality amidst chaos. Throughout those 7 years although it’s not a two way conversation that has been all of you. The fact I tune in everyday is a testament to what bloody awesome humans you all are. Not through the technicalities of content or even if I play the games but more because it’s just frickin magical being in your company.
A huge huge thankyou to you all. Honestly you’ve been the light in the dark for a lot of us I’m sure. One day I’m gonna buy you all a beer for sure haha.
Ryan
The wisest words of this episode were ‘i’m not ready to talk about this yet’.
To open up a bit. I suffer from PTSD and depression mainly. One of the most common things that happens to me is when I do my shopping for food and such. Some people I encounter in the shop trigger so much from my past that most of the times I suffer with anxiety in the shop. I have moments where I am completely reliving stuff from the past. The most extreme things I had is when I got home with a massive nose bleed going on just trying to restrain it. I have over time learned to control it for a short time until I get home and I can collapse and everything can come up mostly safely come up and I wont harm anyone, except for maybe myself.
I also nearly killed myself for the similar reasons as Mel, like feeling the world and the people around me would be better off without me. I was planning the jump in front of the train and because the police at that time where searching for a child who was supposedly on the railways they found me and stopped me. I spent some time in a mental health clinic to recover from this. Nowadays I still struggle with the same thought, but I have learned to deal with it, either with medication or sometimes self harm to just calm down and get through it.
Nowadays I still receive therapy to try and deal with my PTSD and get the past desensitized a bit so I don’t have to deal with them so heavily everyday. It’s unfortunately not helping, but I hope it will in the future. Talking about things is the only way to get somewhere with it even if it is just to get them out and release some pressure.
It’s a wonderful episode, different but beautiful. And you guys have been a support for me as well, mostly to provide a distraction from all the pains and fears I struggle with.
Many hugs from me Justin.
@amachan Thanks for sharing. Stay strong and keep cranking out those inspirational projects – you are definitely one of the most prolific contributors here!
Thanks for sharing….If you have the option, you might want to have a think about changing therapist. Someone else may have a different approach or style that works better for you.
I’m having a chat next week to see how we are going to move on further with my therapist and my personal coach.
I think this is your finest episode of the XLBS to date.
I applaud the discussion and the genuinely open and honest approach to dealing with what is a very difficult and misunderstood topic. The more everyone in society can understand mental health, the better we will collectively be able to reach out and support those around us who need that support. Mental health sadly has a stigma and because of this, many go untreated, struggling from one day to the next. It needn’t be so and discussions like this help break down the stigma and build understanding.
I will raise one point, and you touched upon it late in the episode. I’m fully aware that ‘man up’ is just a figure of speech and was used in the episode as such, so this is not a criticism, more something that all of us should be aware of.
Words carry a power and we need to move away from such terms. Reaching out for support is the first step for many and the easier we can all make it, even through using more supportive language, the more people we can help.
Well done for tackling such a difficult problem.
I think we need to rebrand Man-up to mean having the balls to talk about these things mate
Interesting idea Mel… I think would be quite hard to do as that phrase has a particularly bad connotation for some.
I have started to own Social Justice Warrior (SJW), which started as a derogatory phrase/abbreviation by those against more diverse representation, and Snowflake, which are usually graphically show as something of beauty, to take the sting out of those people’s arguments.
I’m not sure the same tactic can be used against “Man-up”.
Nah, it’s just a phrase, it’s the context of the user that matters mate
i do not post very often but i must say wow i had no idea.
it may or it may not help but they say this happens to people with brilliant minds so take comfort guys.
i have met jerry on line through tabletop commanders and always thought this guy is a well read and interesting guy
i have with bow since the turn 8 days.
and would like to say you guys are fantastic
thank you
I watched this show late Sunday night when the family where all in bed, and i must say i was not prepared for what come next………..I was enjoying the usual friendly XLBS banter, the what have you been up to in the hobby it was quite exciting. I loved the tower that warzen had sent to him, and i liked how it was multi-parted……3D printers wonderful things.
Not going to go into to much detail, so this will be sort of short:
Then the show moved on to it
s (lets call it) its main topic, which for me hit home. I was sat listening to what was being said (so far so good), as it went on i began to feel a knot inside me tightening. When it got to the part where Justin (sort of) lost it hit me hard, because the next thing i know i was across the room away from my laptop arms around my waist holding myself very tightly while slowly walking round the room whilst holding back the tears. This went on for about 10 / 15 minutes while all the time i was still listening to what was being said on the show, it was the hardest few minutes of my life (for me) to date. Not going into detail, but for the last 45 plus years i have kept what happened to me buried in the deepest part of my brain and will never mention it again. I dont hold warzen...Mel...Jerry or Justin responsible for bringing to the fore what i thought i had buried a long time a go, Justin mate you have very good friends around you mate never let them go. As for me i have my hobby and everybody on OTT/Beasts to keep me going, take care of yourselves everyone and ill see you all tomorrow………..heading of to my night shift.dude… your not alone…. I’m not ready and nether are you, don’t be ashamed of that… as I wight this I’ve taken a “step” I never thought I would… tonight I Talked to my “dad”… a man I never thought I would talk to… there is no rime or reason to mental health, we take it as we can and deal with things as we feel ready to… never feel that us sharing things on the show forces you to make choices or take on a fight your not ready for…
P.S. I did lose it… I broke down and nearly shared things I really am not able to, this show caught me off guard and I let myself out… (I feel no shame…) when you need an outlet I’ll make this offer, message me I’ll listen and chat and it’ll never go beyond there…
Thanks for talking about this guys. I can relate to a lot of it (been on various anti depressants for 10 years) I don’t think I will ever be completely free of depression and anxiety but with the help of my hobby, friends, great communities like this and medication I can manage it better and have a better quality of life day to day.
You guys speaking about this was a very brave thing and it is very much appreciated.
If I see you in town Mel, the oatcakes are on me ?
Wow. Heavy but rivetting viewing guys. It makes me appreciate my gaming family that much more. This episode would be a great use of the free week pass.
Thanks for opening up. And for encouraging letter writing. It’s becoming a lost art ?
Guys, I want to thank you for sharing your troubles with us. You’re not alone.
This actually caused me, to have a bit of a cry.
So much relatable stuff there.
I got diagnosed with winter-depression about 15-20 years ago, but I did not do anything about it until about 5 years ago, at which point it had developed into a full grown depression, with a side of heavy stress.
I started to take some medicine and it helped a bit so I left it at that and got back to a new job.
That lasted about a year and a half until I went down with stress and depression again and I lost my job.
I told myself I had to pull myself together and power trough it since it came in waves.
The next job went okay for about a year until I started to have problems again, I simply could not do my job correctly and while I tried to power trough I eventually got fired last year for not doing my job.
Probably a good thing too since a couple of months later I hit the biggest low ever.
This time my job-counselor saw that something was wrong and got me started on a huge set of tests and treatments, which I am in the middle of now.
The biggest thing I have learned so far is just how stupid I have acted until now.
Not doing anything was a really bad thing to do, since it does not just go away and telling myself to “man up” and power trough, just make it A LOT worse.
At the moment I am waiting for the government psychiatrist, to put together a set of tests to see if there is something else hidden in my condition, so they can start a treatment.
Thanks you for sharing your story @spacefrog.
Thank you Guys. A truly amazing, insightful and personal show. I hope this finds you safe and well. Much love and respect.
So this XLBS hasn’t been far from my thoughts this week.I have taken some time to re-examine myself and how i behave around / towards others.Flashback to my youth i was bullied throughout school.Not a real surprise,being on the chunkier side ( Big boned for all the Garfield fans out there,myself included ).Add in the blossoming love for all things sci-fi / fantasy and i suppose i’m a ” textbook ” case.
Time passes,now i actively keep people at an arms length,actively pushing them away for fear of them peeking through the front i have up and piercing the armour i have around my ( honestly ) fragile emotions.When i’m at my weakest / lowest i actually believe i don’t deserve to have friends ( honestly, i fucking hate myself when that little nugget settles in for a visit,which makes the entire episode worse ),i mean why would i,what meaning do i have for the people around me ? What do i bring to the friendship that they would need ?
Rightly or wrongly,i have not gone down the pharmaceutical route via my GP.I know everyone is different,but seeing them do nothing for my brother during his illness has coloured my perspective and thinking about it as far as pharmaceuticals go.I can recognise the signs of an up coming ” episode ” and in general,take myself away from negative stimulus / thoughts about spending time with my ” black dog “.Nowadays it is only the bigger waves that do bring me down and i have to admit to still be learning about myself and how i deal with my personal black dog.Talking is key for me.I’ll organise a coffee with my best friend so that i can vent and allow her to call me out on my bullshit ( and then continue to listen,god bless you Louise. ).She won’t see that,but i have told her on multiple occasions.
I’ve said it before,being here on BoW is therapy.The hobby keeps me going,BoW keeps me going,even though the hobby has been a bit dis-jointed / a bit hit and miss lately.Hopefully progress made on my growing SW:Legion forces and some terrain will be enough of a kick in the arse for some time to come ( plus the forthcoming Age of Magic release ) to fortify myself against further visits from the black dog.
One last thing for everyone out there…You are not Alone,if i can tell someone,you can too and it will help.
@kantor72 thanks for sharing your story.
Great episode guys. ??
Dudes! That was deep. I never met y’all in person but I know if I met you guys it would be rad! Hang in there boys. We got this awesome worldwide community and a love for the sickest hobby ever!!! Love you guys. Seriously. Your iooshow is my Saturday and Sunday “me time” thank you so much for what you guys do, who you are, and the love you all give this awesome hobby of ours. I’m coming to a bootcamp and Hanging with y’all! I’ve lived with depression, suffered through some tragic events. Through it all. Gaming and painting has been my go to comfy zone. And playing music. Excersize is great for depression. It helps me clear my head and give me a better perspective on my life and what. Needs to be done. I’m here for you guys. You can message me if you ever need a friend. Big love from across the pond.
Great show. Thank you to everyone for sharing. It’s always difficult to hear when people go through tough times in their lives, but it’s great to hear that people are always willing to help each other get through those tough times. Great job of showing what a fantastic community we have here on BoW/OTT!
So…. I am going to keep this message online short and sweet. Mainly because I want to actually send a letter to the BoW team. And maybe I will put the message here after I compose it all and figure out everything I want to say.
@warzan , and for all us ADHD or ADD sufferers out there, get checked out, it can really help just to know thats what you are suffering from. Thankfully my mother pushed for me to be checked in elementary (5 grade I think), and it turned my schooling around for the better. Also check out How to ADHD on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-nPM1_kSZf91ZGkcgy_95Q
@dignity you have a great group of friends around you. Even if you never open up to everyone, open up to even just one person. It will help you big time in the long run.
You are a great guy. (<—period)
Thank you all for this episode of XBLS. Seriously, thank you.
This topic was again highlighted to me today, had a sick meeting with my management, as I’m over the 12 month sick target. Although I have had physical problems with irregular heart and my hand swelling with Tynosynovitus , they are struggling (and they are a hospital) to see that all the episodes are is as a result of them asking me to cover a public phone line, even though my job is IT based and was particularly chosen as it never mention public contact, and despite me giving them a whole pile of medical reports from my previous employer as to the effects of my phobia (I used to work for DWP and suffered from almost weekly death threats etc).
They tried to argue that its part of the job if you work in a hospital ( I’m sure the maintenances staff will suprised on this one) bear in mind in the past I was in the RAF so you use that argument I must be able to fly a plane.
It was only when they could see I was getting visibly upset that it began to sink in. Which bring me to my point much of the problem with mental health problems is they are not immediately visable, as say a broken or missing limb. I’m sure he wouldn’t have asked me to climb stairs if I had missing legs, and yet this is a hospital management team who should be aware of these type of illnesses.
It is now a good 2 hours since the meeting and am still feeling the effects and may pay for it for the next few days and that was just from the thought have having to have public contact never mind actually doing it.
I hope that this is edited to fit onto the front page as you mentioned in the VLOG.
Thank you for doing this show.
We can do great work in the world and in our little community here.
Missed this episode and am so glad I came back to it via someone mentioning it in a post. Thank you thank you thank you for sharing and caring and highlighting this stuff many of us struggle with. It takes a lot of strength to do so and that strength can help others (myself included) build theirs. Kia Kaha. Much loves from the NZ ?
Thanks for the meaningful show!
What a wonderful show, thanks to all for their contributions.
Thanks for doing this. I work with students who are coming to terms with th a range of mental health and disability needs. Many of whom are part of this awesome community. I know the benefits of the hobby and totally support its theraputic benifits.
Thank you all for sharing in this episode. If there was a Bafta for online video blogs this would win it!!
You guys are amazing.