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Necron Week: Advance of the Heavy Support!
November 8, 2011 by darrell
Video Sponsors: Infinity - Dark Age - Kings of War
Warren and Darrell dive into one of the meatier sections of the new Necron Codex... the Heavy Support section.
Just a quick heads up guys we have found out that the flux arch's can fire at all targers this morning but it was too late to fix it in the video, stay tuned for an up date video later on.
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read the flux arcs weapons rules guys, they can fire seperately.
The death ray.
Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line.
i.e. if you hit 2 models of a unit that are under the line, that unit takes 2 hits, NOT an amount of hits as there are total models in the unit.
im afraid your wrong, if the passage had been:
Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit, underneath the line.
But as it is:
Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line.
its every model that little comma makes all the diffrence.
BoW Justin
I fail to see your point, you’re arguing that the comma changes the whole meaning of the sentence, when a comma just illustrates a pause. If it was a full stop then you’d maybe have a point, albeit a very tenuous one.
well i don’t have an English degree or anything but i asked someone who has one and that’s what i was told.
BoW Justin
With respect – Justin’s right. The construction of the sentence with the comma and without changes the stressor of the first part.
With the comma a ten man unit with three models suffers three hits. With the second a ten man unit with three models suffers ten hits.
I don’t have a copy of the codex yet, but as I assume this is going on an arcing electrical death ray cannon thingy that Tesla tried to create but couldn’t get funding for the latter stands.
It’s also why legal documents don’t use commas. They introduce ambiguity.
For example: Shall we sue?. Add a comma and it becomes Shall we, Sue?
And without wanting to be a snobbish oik I’ve an English degree and am a ferocious pedant – specifically for the perpendicular pronoun Justin!
ahhh i see it now. we are all just being very picky about the use of the English language now 🙂
i believe maddogdwh is correct.
the edition of the second underneath the line in the sentence means that it is only models underneath the line. otherwise the second reference to underneath the line is superfluous… i.e if it was how you where claim it to be, it would be this “Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit”
they included underneath the line twice to avoid people making the claims you are making. and i believe this overules your statement about punctuation… like of course this is confusingly worded so you could claim it is this way… but it would be a jerk to the person you are versing as you’ll likely be only able to proxy due to the FAQ coming out before wave 2.
and yet why mention the unit at all then? why not simply say only models under the line are hit?
BoW Justin
because you shot at a unit. you dont shoot at models
Because you’re allowed to allocate the hits, so you cant snipe heavy weapons or characters.
@cancer well if you look at the wording of jaws of the world wolf it only talks about the models hit, also your not shooting at a unit your shooting at 2 points on the table, and that makes it even worse for anything under the line as you wont need to roll to hit.
BoW Justin
But jaws DOES snipe models, because of the initiative test which protects most characters since they have higher initiative, plus the rune priest can kill himself if he cocks it up, its not automatic like the deathray seems to be.
@cazboab yes and that’s the point this isn’t a sniper shot IMO the Death Ray hits everyone in the unit, i can’t see how it could only hit the models under the line.
boW Justin
This is such a poorly worded, badly written rule (with NO examples? How bloody lazy is the author?).
If there are a unit of 30 Boyz, 5 Nobz, and 10 Necrons, all hit by my line – how many hits?
45 hits?
Or does each unit get 30, 5, and 10 hits respectively?
Or do you add up the total number of models under the line and each unit suffers that amount of hits, say 7 models were covered, each would take 7 hits?
Why isn’t it: “Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the total number of models of all units underneath the line.”
@dignity “can’t see how it could only hit the models under the line.”
because at str 10 ap1 it will kill entire squads of anything without a inv save.
if it was what you think it is for 175 points you are getting the best gun in the game which is anti everything (anti vihicle, anti horde, and anti elite units) that can deep strike and then move at cruising speed and still shoot and doesnt need to roll to hit…
literally the gun that is the best gun against almost anything/everything… how are you not seeing that this would break the game completly?
It’ll be FAQ’d so it’s more like Jaws and the other rules that use the ‘line’ mechanic. You guy’s interpretation is the same to what I had upon first read, but then it would eclipse everything in the entire book to the point where it doesn’t matter what you take as long as you have 3 of these. I just don’t see it.
This is GW we’re talking about, typo’s, mistakes and unclear wording’s are mandatory 😉
You could be right, but if it’s not FAQ’d to be more clear then we’re talking about seeing 3 of these in every army, winning a lot of games by wiping out whole units the moment they arrive on the board. It’s just not in keeping with the rest of the book.
The way I see it being used is with Flayed Ones in combat, draw your enemy in and blast away – you might kill a few flayed ones, but they have the chance to get up again. Or else they’ll obliterate Darrell’s conga line tactics 😉
I also think Annihilation Barges are great, especially in smaller games. The Assault 4 twin-linked S7 is just as good as an Autocannon (bar the range) at taking out light transports, add in the extra potential hits and the Arc ability and the fact a lot of armies will have Imotekh or at least a Cryptek with Solar Pulse (as I see Night Finghting to be pretty mandatory to lessen casualties whilst your army closes in and reserves arrive to take out the ranged threats) will help negate the negative effect of its medium range.
As it is I agree about the Doomsday Ark (as well as it being a very big model), but you’re not considering the Spyder’s ability to spawn Scarabs like there’s no tomorrow. Imagine 9 of these behind walls of scarabs, you’ll always get 9 additional bases a turn so long as the Spyders are alive and once in combat the scarabs will eat everything to the point that Tesla weapons will kill on 2+ or penetrate vehicles on the single dice roll.
I know you guys are getting excited, but can’t you see how insanely over-powered your interpretation of the Death Ray is? My first thought was ‘YAY!…wait, that can’t be right?” Time will tell but I wouldn’t be buying those proxy vehicles for it just yet 🙂
not really, you’ll deep strike 3 in lose maybe one get 2 good shots off then die as there only armour 11 all around with no sheilding.
BoW Justin
with 3 getting deep striked in you could take out 90% of the enemy units within a turn.
whats left to kill the death scythe?
.
also another thing with the spyders, is their the gloom device has any unit within three of your unit of spyders gaining psychic defence. so with up to 3 big models in a unit of spyders (all of which can be 2′ from each other) you are getting quiet a decent anti psyk area.
aswell as MC who reinforces one of the best AV units in the codex.
and with the spyder rule you can congo line the scarabs up as when you ad models you can place them anywhere within coherency within the scarab unit (I.E WAY CLOSER TO THE EENEMIES TANKS)
I don’t think so, if it was supposed to be every model in the unit under the line it would just say “Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit” but that second “underneath the line” comma or no is the caveat that applies, IMO models have to be under the line to be hit, then its treated just as if those models were under a blast template IE you may allocate them to grunts even if the line goes through a sergeant or a heavy weapon etc.
Not much of a death ray though, is it? If you managed to roll 10 you mght get three tanks or 7 models out of thirty. I’ve a strength 10 AP4 rocket that’ll beat that in terms of sheer blast radius.
“suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line.”
So my example of a UNIT which has 2 models under the line take 2 hits, is correct.
Jaws of the world wolf is targeted and wounds/kills only the individual models under its line, death ray wounds units, allowing wound allocation.
I honetly can’t see how your mis-reading this Justin?
i’m not, it mentions the unit where jaws only mentions the models under the line.
why mention the unit unless its the entire unit?
BoW Justin
The Entire unit gets hit.
The thing you seem to have a problem with is how many times the unit gets hit.
“suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line”
The unit gets hit as many times as how many models of said unit are under the line.
Lets say that 3 units have the line going over them.
If 3 models of unit A are under the line, then unit A take 3 hits.
If 4 models of unit B are under the line, then unit B take 4 hits.
If 2 models of unit C are under the line, then unit C take 2 hits.
It not “all 3 units got hit so every model from the 3 units gets hit”
I honest to god don’t know how to make this any easier to understand Justin.
The unit suffers the hits in the same way they suffer hits from a blast template, the problem is they’ve essentially tried to squeeze the half page explanation of how blasts work into one sentence.
It is probably Darrel’s WAAC habits that are rubbing off on him so he can only see rules as he wants to see them.
Either way, this rule is poorly worded.
Either it hits a number of models equal to the number of models under the line, in which case the rule should have a comma.
Or it hits every model in the unit, in which case the last “underneath the line” part of the rule is redundant as we are already know we are talking about a unit underneath the line because of the very first part of the rule.
page 81 a gauss flux arc can be fired at a different target unit to other weapons on the vehicle (including other gauss flux arcs) so as far as i can see u can still fire at four diff units with the monolith
Yup spotted that today thanks to commentors yesterday 🙂
Have another nice vid going up later we can all argue about 😉
He said 27.
The deathray hits sorta like an eldar vibrocannon, I think, only it hits the number of models under the line not D6 and not the whole unit.
As for models you could use cylon raiders or there’s a few decent sized star trek bird of prey models that run to about 20-30 quid, there might be some stargate death glider models or toys that will fit too.
I would STROLY reccoment you guys both look at the rules for the Testler Destructoron page 82! As well as getting 2 extr hit on a roll of a 6, for EVERY unit (FRIEND OR FOE) within 6′ of the unit originally hit, roll a d6. On a roll of a 6…wait for it.. that unit suffers d6 automatic s6 AP- hit also!!! Look out HORD armies!!!
Ps.. please look at page 81!! Under the descriptions for GAUSS WEAPONS.. it says “A Gause Fluux arc can be fired at a different target unit to OTHER weapons on the vehicle… INCLUDING OTHER gause flux arcs!!!”
Ie and THEREFORE.. the partical whip can aim at one thing.. and EACH of the 4 flux arcs CAN shoot at compltly different targets..
PLEASE READ THIS DARREN AND WARREN!!! I would LOVE a mention in one of your necron vids.. HUGE fan of you both.. and HUGE fan of necrons.. have been my main army since day one!!
Great vids guys.. keep it up 🙂
We’re getting ya loud and clear 🙂
A vid with some clarifications will head up later today.
What I really didn’t get with the rules is why not simply make it a large blast? Why add in the complexity of a line, then this who’s hit, who isn’t, how many lark? Heck, one our regulars is a bit of a pedant for movement so this’ll send him up to the ceiling and back.
In honour of this video, when I get around to starting a Necron army, my Monolith will be christened ‘the Gillian Taylforth’.
Considering I’ve Stormravens called Kevin and Perry what other name could my Bloodthirsters have but Brown and Darling? Afterall, they caused just as much chaos!
Changes to Living Metal rule really hurts Monolith becouse it has so short ranges. Basically this means that its no problem getting melta troops close enough and just destroy Monolith.
Best laugh I have had in ages !
It seems our aged lords have learned some skills from their erstwhile red allies…BROFIST! 😀
Oh yeah,…I laughed too.. sucking the enemy off at the eternity aye guys 😛 PS.. You can also bring an “UN-ENGAGED” model from reserves through the portal.. not a vehical thogh. I though wow.. bring the doom scythe in with the monolith and SURPRISE!!!.. but alaso no. But being able to bring ANY other models in, any turn through the protal from reserve… thats like sayings I want this squad here on this turn.. and poof its done!
What you guys think?
As much I’m going to claim the death ray works RAW. I suspect it will be quickly errata-ed. I would like to point out before you get over excited and start spraying lines everywhere don’t forget your tesla destructors. You should usually shoot them off before the death ray. 2 reasons:
A) The arcing rule for the tesla. You want the unit your shooting at to have the biggest foot print so that it can expand it’s 6″ arcing range. Giving you more dice roll opportunities to get those 6s.
B) Against the likes of razorback spam or DE raiders etc, since the arcing takes place after the original shots are resolved a unit inside a transport could be tesla-ed as well. And even though unlikely it could take out a few more guys than just death raying the transports and tesla-ing the guys… as well as give the chance to maybe pop a few other nearby transports to death ray the occupants
Besides let’s face, despite its tank killing ability, you really want to death ray the infantry. A’la Orson Wells…. Doo doo doo doo doo doo
Obviously if facing land raiders completely ignore this tactic.
@valbarca it would be a good way to get lychguard right up on an objective/tough unit to clear it, if they had those dispersion shields and a cryptex with chronometron to re-roll some saves they could survive long enough to do some damage. You’d half to be very precise about placement after disembarkment tho to minimize shooting. Could also get a C’tan shard across the board.
Basically, long story short it could save your CC troops the walk across the board. And I would deepstrike a Monolith wherever possible. It now has the role of an uber drop pod. Drop in, lay down some fire, dump out some guys… wash rinse repeat…all the while your ghost arks float forward on to objectives with their hordes of warriors. Ironically it’s the bad ass guys you want to sacrifice in this case to get the fodder on the objectives to claim them.
Forces your opponent to deal with it or face being
distracted from countering your win. 😉 i should finish my sentences
qucik question but how wide would the doom scythes “line” be cos a realy thin line might not hit anything where as a thick line would get TONS of guys
I’d imagine it’s if it cross a base, but yes, you’re entirely correct. Does it also have a vertical plane? What if you’re a landspeeder? Does it get you then?
I don’t get the need to invent these rather complex rules. Just make it d3 large blasts anywhere between those points. But then, yes, it’s supposed to be uber killy. That’s fine, but so is a Deathstrike missile and it’s rules aren’t that complicated or open to interpretation.
Heck, I like it. I’m not a Necron player and might be facing one, but it’s still hugely fun.
epic to be continued on that 😉
I got halfway through the video, and just had to stop.
You guys need to read the codex more. Monolith flux arcs, you read the profile. you relised there was a star next to it, and completely dismissed it. *face palm*
Also, you forgot to mention about the tesla destructors arc ability. quite a good addition in my books. (and that is has a underslung tesla/gauss cannon)
Up your facts next time guys, im disapointed.
@riandro If you only watched half how do you know what was mentioned?
You know I say it in almost every video, along the lines of – Post in the comments guys if we’ve missed something or you disagree etc
I’ve said numerous times in the past that the video is 50% of the content and that the comments are just as (if not more) important.
You have a small team of BoW guys working through a codex vs the entire community so of course the community will spot other details or dissagree with our interpretations, and thats exactly what the comments are for. 😉
Warren, we all think you guys do a brilliant job with the new codex reviews, in my opinion there the best video’s you guys do (apart from the cheesey one’s daily tips and unboxing videos – we need to have more screen time with the base’s darrel!).
Keep up the good work, and slap justin round the head for getting the death ray so wrong 🙂
If the deathray thingy is literally you hit what you’re line passes through then it’s hardly a ‘death ray’ and less powerful than a manticore rocket. I’d like to read the fluff on it to see the spirit as well as the intent, but hitting everything in a line between two points is, well, the Blood Angels psychic power blood lance. If it were hits everything with a blast template that’s different. Crossing between two points is again rather funky – for the Imp Guard tank lines but against horde armies hitting every model in the unit at S8 is scary.
Your gonna hate me shortly because We’re just putting up a video where I agree with him, along with some other cheesy stuff to fight about lol 😉
Warren, please see this reply to justin.
The Entire unit gets hit.
The thing you seem to have a problem with understanding is how many times the unit gets hit.
“suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line”
The unit gets hit as many times as how many models of said unit are under the line.
Lets say that 3 units have the line going over them.
If 3 models of unit A are under the line, then unit A take 3 hits.
If 4 models of unit B are under the line, then unit B take 4 hits.
If 2 models of unit C are under the line, then unit C take 2 hits.
It not “all 3 units got hit so every model from the 3 units gets hit”.
It doesn’t need a faq out for this, it’s very, very simple. Justin is looking for cheese where there is none.
Justin, if after all this, you still believe what you do, fair enough, we will just call it a difference of opinion and let it go at that.
Cheers Darryl Haines.
Come on over here and we can have a proper argument about this (and a couple of other entries!) 😉
http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/necrons-update/
Oww! C’mon, it was an excellent video put together by a group of really enthusiastic chaps. So what if there are arcs and separate targets? That’s why BoW isn’t canonical, just bringing the hobby to more people through a great medium.
LOL at kamkazekid!! I LIKE how you think mate.. THink line.. vs THICK line rofl… they dont ACUTALLY state. Now I would say its a line.. say somewhere between the thickness of a peice of string and say the stupid plastic measuring things you get in the 40k starter box sex.
Allthough..if it dosent say.. who is to ay that the THICKNESS of the line cant be say.. the thickness of a brick and 3d6″ long…thats what she said btw.
the whole line issue comes back to stuff like cannons in warhammer, I’d say for fairness sake that you could use a range ruler for it.
OR.. a regual ruler and say RIGHT. everything under the ruler is hit :D!!! Win here Win there.. win everywhere!!!
Just to put my 2 cents in I believe you should take the death ray as saying the unit takes the number of hits equal to the models under the thin line between the two points. As for attacking into combat I think you could if the line hits the enemy only then only they take the hits but if it touches a friendly model then it is also hit. ie if the line goes through the second row of enemies then they are hit only.
You guys forget one thing that the monolith is suffering from, the big gun is an ordnance weapon so if you fire that no flux arcs for you
Frankly that’s bad game design: You give a proper example with any rule that isn’t blindling obvious. Hell you give a proper example with the blindingly obvious too. Take no chances!
I dont care about any of the discussion about these new rules, I was lost at the Monolith “sucking off the enemy” Still laughing now 🙂 This clip needs to get onto “you’ve been framed”
I
This is actually dedicated transport here, but I have a thought: A ghost ark has two gauss flayer arrays. It is also open topped. So we could have ten more gauss flayers from the warriors firing from within. That’s 20 flayer shots!
The doom scythe is the cheesiest thing in the book. The book is actually pretty good at not being cheesy I think, rather it has good synergy. I played the monolith recently with new rules and it performed fine, I don’t think its been nerfed to ineffectiveness its still as resilient as a land raider. I disagree with Darrell on the Doomsday Ark a str9 ap1 blast is useful with such range, it just has the downside of being slow and easy to outflank and take out.
no the monolith is very vulnerable now as it can only move 6″.
this means that you only need 4s to hit in close combat.
a land raider can do 12 and be hit on 6s.
living metal sucks now. no protection at all.
now lance, melta, rending weapons and monstrous creatures can play marry hobb with it. and it can’t get away.
because it moves 6″ the opponent moves 6′ into assault.
the monolith just needed to be cheaper. the gate is cool,
why did the particle whip lose strength?
used to be a strength 9 now it’s an 8.
why doesn’t its deepstrike scatter enemy models anymore?
is anyone going to use res orbs?
they’re kind of pointless now.
why is the phalactery one use only?
when i play apocalypse games is my pilon restricted to the new living metal rule?
and thus made to suck?
basically they shouldn’t have messed with living metal.
it was fine the way it was.
my rant is over.
Hell yea my opponents vehicles will suck me off? Sign me up
I stopped watching the show at 16:40. If they can’t be bothered to read the codex properly they shouldn’t try to make themselves sound like experts on 40k…
Seriously, how is it even possible that there is any kind of confusion about the death ray?
@lpetersson Good for you Lars!
I will make sure and call a team meeting today to say that Lars has stated from this point forth there shall be no confusion about the death ray! 😉
Team will be very pleased with this… except you didn’t state how its supposed to work 🙁
Confusion arises when something hasn’t been written clearly. The problem here is not peoples ‘interpretation’ its the fact that its incredibly ambiguous. 😉
BTW the fact that the team spend days pulling together content to have some entertainment with the community must be the signal of people who ‘can’t be bothered’. 😉
haha “everyone is dead Dave” Love the RedDwarf reference!
Just thought I’d point out, that the Death Ray does not say it ignores cover…there by you are still going to get some ability to stop this..also, the max range on the line is 18″…If you’ve got up to 5 units within that range…what are you doing?? Also the minimum range is 3″…you’d hate to roll that up!
I think the Deathray isn’t over powered, it’s just very good when it does hit but a smart player can figure out how to render it next to useless. Also given how close you have to get to use the weapon…you’re putting alot of hope in one unit. Never a good idea!
Just my 2 cents on the Death ray.
Warren, try calling Games Workshop and ask what there interpretation of the rule is 🙂
Until a FAQ comes out, the people I feel sorry for are the refs at tournements and game groups.
Poor buggers 🙂
All these skimmers will be a good treat for my IG army with Hydra’s. Looking forward to playing against the new Necrons, and building my own army of them too.
Okay I just got off the phone with Games Workshop customer service and the correct use of the Death Ray is if you go over X models in the unit you get X number of hits against the unit. So if the line goes over 2 Ork Boyz in a unit of 30 you will only get 2 hits against them not 30.
apparently other people have done the same thing and have got different replys
how big is the line?
if i use 2 bricks is the line equal to there width?
you see that’s why this needs faqing.
would the doomsday ark be worth it if the doomsday cannon was ordanance
and also i love how you just slowly sunk into uncontrollable launghter becasue darrell said the monolith can suck people off
funny how they got the rules for the death ray wrong read the germen codex it worded that the models under the line get hit not the whole squad
I guess you all know this by now, but the January 2012 FAQ says that the Death Ray only deals as many hits as the number of MODELS directly under the line. Dull, but to be expected, in fairness.
Link to FAQ: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2170012a_Necron_FAQ_Version_2_0_January_2012.pdf