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40k Charted: Beginning Our 30k Project
February 24, 2017 by warzan
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Woohoo! What factions? All of them
Man after my own heart lol
Just started getting stuff together for a small Alpha Legion force. Looking forward to watching your progress.
Glad to hear its not just me that struggled with 1st half of Horus Rising. So glad I read on as the series is amazing.
It is simply an amazing book – once it finishes setting the scene – there is no doubt to me it needed the first half pretty much the way it was, but like you I’m glad I persevered as I had literally said “I’m only going to read one more page of this…” lol
Oddly enough I was sucked right in – finished it last night and it was just kept pulling me in 😀
Although there wasn’t a great deal of battle towards the end it still kept me on the edge of my seat due to knowing loosely where the overall story will end up going… the little throwaway bits of dialogue which would come to mean so much later on. Flashes of what’s to come!
Not that I’ve got the time or the money to do one but if I did I’d be tempted to do the loyalist members of a traitor legion, such as the Sons of Horus and paint them as Luna Wolves.
Loyalist World Eaters were my second choice, although the only thing that would set them apart from the traitors is not including characters like Kharn or Angron.
Luna wolves would certainly have been my choice too! – But I understand the reasoning to get the most out of the boxes we have – models nor money grows on trees lol
This would be a cool project. I think its why the original Errant Knights interest me, as they were largely formed from the ‘left overs’ of legions that had turned traitor.
Working on a Sons of Horus force now. Will be posting stuff to the forums maybe tonight.
Filliping Awesome 🙂 Cant wait to see it 🙂
Done. See the “what are you painting now” thread,
They’re looking great. Maybe someone should start a “Show us your 30K” thread for this?
Started my 30k journey in 2006… Bloody hell that went quick lol. Slowly building up a half decent mechanicum army… Two titans so far… Next on the list is the Warlord-Sinister pattern… A big ass Psi-Titan 😀
No hard choice here.
I love the Thousand Sons. An army of psykers what’s not to like and the story of Magnus is so tragic, in trying to safe the Imperium he dooms himself.
My brother loves the Space Wolves and Leman Russ.
The only drawback is that I like Custodes more than Thousand Sons and they fight on the other side.
I will be following this with great interest.
Well, I can’t speak positively enough about book 6 of the horus heresy series. Specifically, it includes the “Shattered Legions” lists. These are meant to represent several small groups of different legions working together. From a fluff perspective, the three main drivers for these forces are:
1) The survivors of the loyalist legions of istavaan V. Small groups of Ravenguard, Iron Hands, and Salamanders grouping together after they were nearly wiped out on Istavaan V.
2) Forces of Traitor Legion marines still loyal to the emperor. Essentially like Garro of the Death Guard. These marines, despire being one of the “traitor legions” chose to leave their legions and side with the emperor. Often these were marines who were recruited from Terra rather than their legions new homeworld.
3) Forces of Loyal Marine Legions who sided with Horus. From the Dark Angels to the White Scars, many legions had small groups of their legions who tried to fight for Horus.
So, if you like Custodians and Ksons, you could potentially make a shattered legions list of Ksons and other traitor marines who are fighting for the Emperor, but they have Custodian “overseers” to make sure they stay loyal.
@foehammer888 Thanks, I probably will look for it when I am going to check for book 7.
I can smell a PLog, smells like a wet dog.
I’ve got a pretty small Word Bearers force, but I love them. The First Heretic, Aurelian and Betrayer are fantastic novels that really detail how the Horus Heresy happened and massively sold me on on the 17th legion (especially with chapters like the ‘Osseous Throne’, ‘Graven Star’ and ‘Burning Hand’, great names!). Betrayal at Calth box is great for starting the army but the main draw models wise are the Gal Vorbak from Forgeworld along with the most hated man in the universe: Erebus!
Great project!
I’ve started my Calth marines as Sons of Horus
and the Prospero ones as Space Wolves 😎
Maybe a good idea to swap the terminators as well..hmm.
Looking forward to seeing how you progress 🙂
Played Space Wolves for 25 years. Gonna repaint em Pre Heresy grey. BUT!
Having read Aaron Dembski-Bowden’s “The First Heretic”, “Auralian” and “Betrayer”, I have fallen the the Word of Lorgar. I have four boxes of Calth with which I shall build my Legion and spread the Primodial Truth!
I have planned out the following :
4 full 20 man Legion Tactical Squads.
2 full 10 man Legion Special Weapon Squads.
2 full 10 man Legion Heavy Weapon Squads.
2 full 10 man Legion Terminator Squads.
2 Contemptor Dreadnoughts.
1 Mortis Contemptor.
2 converted Mhara Gal Contemptors.
And a little Forge World back up :
5 man Gal Vorbak Squad.
10 man Breacher Squad.
The awesome Cataphractii Librarian model.
Basically, go big or go home!
Traitor!
Not at all! I’ve simply had the Truth revealed to me! 😉
I am really liking the idea of Word Bearers from the background stuff – I could never understand Chaos in 40k till I read the 30k stuff…
I couldn’t understand how any marine could turn to evil/chaos – the novels have done such a good job explaining 🙂
Exactly Dude. The fall of the Word Bearers is as tragic as that of the Thousand Sons.
In my opinion, the Heresy happened because the Emperor simply does not understand baseline humans. How could he? He’s so far removed from them!
On the reason for the webway. In “Path of Heaven”, its indicated that the golden throne and the human-forged-webway was all part of the Emperor’s plan to isolate humanity from the chaos gods. Part of isolating humanity from Chaos was eliminating psychers. The problem the Emperor saw with Warp Travel was in order to travel via the warp, (1) humanity was dependant on Navigators, who were psychers, and (2) they needed the astronomicon, which was powered by psychers.
So, until he found a way for humanity to travel across the galaxy without navigators and the astronomicon, humanity would be dependant on psychers. What came to light in that novel is that many of the Navigator houses discovered the emperor’s plan to eliminate warp travel, and that is why many of them sided with Horus during the heresy. Without warp travel, the emperor would no longer need his treaties with the navigator houses.
The Council of Nikaea is the event you chaps were looking for where the use of psykers in the legions got you put on the naughty step.
I had my second Horus Heresy game yesterday and while I like the balance, it’s the narrative elements that bring it to life, even more so than the 40k counterpart. I chose Salamanders as my legion after seeing the Firedrake and Pyroclast models at one of the Warhammer Fests. Plus they’re stoic good guys. With dragons. There are a few of my Salamanders kicking around the What Are You Painting Now thread. I’m putting the finishing touches to my Tartaros Terminator squad from the Burning of Prospero box so will post some photos within the next couple of days.
Nikaea, that’s the one! It was also where the Imperium got all their fab running shoes…..
A few things to keep in mind.
1) Based on Loadout, a contemptor dread is around 200 points. A 5-unit of custodians is 250 points. So even with giving the thousand sons an extra dread, they are going to be short on points if the SW get 2 units of custodians AND two units of sisters.
2) I might recommend you switch your approach on the terminators. Here is the breakdown on the difference in terminators
– Cataphractii = having a higher invul save (4+ vs. 5+) but cannot run, overwatch, or sweeping advance. They are the tougher, but slower teriminators
– Tartaros = have the 5+ invul, but don’t have the restrictions on overwatch, running, or sweeping advances
So, I might give the wolves the Tartaros terminators. They emphasize speed over durability, which aligns better with an assault-oriented army like Space Wolves. The slower, tougher cataphractii might align better with the Ksons shooty-oriented approach.
However, in either case, you might want to pre-order the new FW book which covers both those legions.
IIRC AJ mentioned that the 1k Sons would be getting some Legion Support Squads which I assume would make up some of the difference in points.
The new FW book is a must have though if you’re building those two legions.
Rules-wise, you’re right on the terminators but IMO looks-wise, they fit better the other way round. Each brings a different style of play which fits in either army though tbh. Who’s to say the 1k Sons don’t need some sweet Lightning Claw assault termies or SW some mid-range or teleportable support?
Yes, I think all the special/Heavy weapons from the boxed sets will be going to the Thousand Sons.
Maybe have another look at the terminator options. I’m gonna have a bash at some lists when I get a hold of the new forgeworld book.
Just starting my own 30k army, and I’m going with Luna Wolves. I’ve always played the imperials in 40k so I’ve decided to go the villains (also I was bought Horus as a birthday present a couple years back and I should really use him)
Loving the series.
I’m a big night lords fan mainly because of their fluff so I started an army. Totally sold on them in game one.
Infiltrating Terror Squads and Jetbikers running around in the dark is great but Raptors are the real heroes of the legion when it come to wiping out squads. Plus who doesn’t love emo Batman who blows up his own planet before the Heresy then allows himself to be killed once he realised he was the bad guy.
I’d perhaps hang fire or reach out to somebody with book VII as from the rules it will impact how you build your armies for both legions. Its also worth considering if you may look at specialist units from each of the legions as that can massively change up what you are looking at.
Not a bad show to touch on some of the frustration between the legions though perhaps not quite as accurate as they could have been. I’d love to lend a bit of a hand and did pop up a thread about the horus heresy stuff on here ages and ages ago.
may also be interested in throwing down with one of those armies when you’re done! I’ve got something like 5 or 6 legions on the go at the moment.
That makes a lot of sense. From what I have seen of book 7 online, SW and 1K Sons are very different to a lot of the other more “standard” legions in terms of army composition.
I have been massively intrigued by the Heresy stuff for three years now and have both sets and nothing painted…
I keep changing my favourite Legion with each new audiobook I listen to 🙁
I just listened to an audiobook with Ultramarines attacking a World Eater flagship empty of troops except for some Dreadnaughts – it was like Space Crusade 🙂
I have really enjoyed the Garro series, have you taken the time to listen to them?
I really like the Garro stuff because it is small-scale enough to imagine as a table-top scenario.
Some of the other books with twenty World Bearer War-hounds chasing down a Emperor Titan in a flooded city can only go Epic scale 6mm 🙂
What was the name of that book, out of curiosity?
great video guys the thousand suns were also smaller because of genetic faults killing many of the recruits.
love the HH books because of the twists and turns like SPOILERS the dark angels holding of the suns of horus on a forge world from getting eight huge siege engines then giving them to the iron warriors for safe keeping.
Been thinking of doing a similar but smaller project
Nightlords. Just need to order a few Forge World models
You made a logical choice for your rival armies but may I suggest something else.
Luna Wolves vs Sons of Horus.
At the beginning of the drop site massacre, Gavriel Loken realized that his Primarch had betrayed the Emperor. Loken then led other loyalists against his own battle brothers and they reverted to the older name of the legion, the Luna Wolves.
This would make the battles a true civil war.
I’ve got about 3 and a half of the boxed sets, 4 vehicles and a handful of resin figures– the plan was to put together 2 small forces however after listening to the horus heresy audio books and particularly the Garro boxed set it is clear that brother vs brother does not mean chapter vs chapter – every chapter is split to some degree with a mix of loyalists and traitors as per the dark angels discussed in the show, were through the stories you have not only loyalist Death Guard, loyalist World Eaters, loyalist Emperor’s Children, you also have traitor white scars.
With this in mind, I changed the plans so that each tactical squad represents a different chapter, then maybe a vehicle, an hq or a squad of terminators.
Narratively then you can setup with a random mix or you can leave it to the dice gods as to which marines are loyalist and which are traitor.
This is SO MUCH MORE interesting to paint – my threshold before I stated to find it tedious was about 16 models anyway so this has been great for me.
I have also got a complete set of the Alclad candy and hot metal metallics and I’m trying to use this as much as possible – it really suits the Thousand Sons and I’ve got a metallic candy blue scheme that looks great for the Ultramarines. There is also a cobalt blue for alpha legion, an indigo for night lords, a violet and greens that would work for sons of horus and death guard respectively. I’ve Blood angels, fists and emperor’s children that I’ve done with a regular finish which I think I’ll leave as they are.
I’ve also done the space wolves using the really bright candy base silver armour and applied the rogue trader insignia on the shoulder pad.
As I have said before – there are some great metallic colours for the Thousand Sons – I have also seen metallic purples for the Emperor’s Children – Some of the painted Horus Heresy armies are real artisan stuff 🙂
I haven’t been able to bring myself to use the purple for the Emperor’s Children as they are magena / pink in the rogue trade book and even though it may look good.
With the Alclad paints there is a candy violet which looked good on a test spray if slightly dark as the candy layer is built up to an even tone and a hot metal violet which I need to re-do a test spray of .
I’m trying out a few options for getting some highlights into them to see if I can get a bit of a zenith but it’s a bit early to tell if I can figure out how to get it to work.
The Thousand sons, as per orcpainternerd’s scheme look fantastic even just sprayed red with the white decals (use the small markings ones as well) look immense. Vehicles are a touch more problematic however.
I can’t wait to see this continue.
I have two Betrayal at Calth sets with some extras from Forge World preceding their release too. Before these plastics came I ebayed some old metal space marine armour mks from Rogue Trader / Second Edition for the armies too. I ended up with:
(1) A tiny Alpha Legion force (heavy on Mk6 armour)
(2) A heavily kit bashed Word Bearers army
(3) A larger Sons of Horus Army
(4) A small elite Death Guard army with two squads of 5 terminators, a contemptor, some characters and a support squad
A
Another great angle that 30K has is that most if not all stories are told from a personal angle and it allows for all kinds of takes on who is screwing who. And as we read more books that seems to change every now and again. And as more of a narrative player, brother vs brother is not off the table.
Im a massive space wolf fan and have a large 40k force, ive been really tempted by the 30k stuff but i think i may have to do something different myself when i finally get round to it. Im thinking the opposite end if the scale and go for the Emperors Children as theyre nice and clean in comparrison.
Really looking forward to seeing then finished products, and hopefully some videos as you go along with them too.
Great show again! I am going for Iron Warriors. “Iron within, iron without”
Awesome, as a 30K total newbie playing catch-up this is fascinating, thanks to encyclopedia AJ. It amazes me how much info the lad has in his head, and no script or prompt notes. Looking forward to following Johns production line.
Some topics I’m better than others at remembering, I’ll admit. 🙂 I love the fluff though, it’s impossible to know it all, so I love reading the comment threads below the videos for other insights into the background. This universe has really been opened up by the Horus Heresy Novels.
I am really looking forward to watching these armies develop myself. Can’t wait to shoot a battle report with these two forces.
Oh this is going to be so fun……… Looking forward to this.( I am giggling like a child at the moment) *rubs hand together* ……. I am currently (slowly doing a 30K World Eaters army, as a very kind lady once gifted me the forgeworld Angron kit ) …. So looking forward to see how you guys do it. cheers …. (So weekly episodes then??? …. Sorry John 😉 )
Started my HH journey what now feels like a loooong time ago 🙂
As for picking a legion…. hahahahaha it’s not possible! You pick one…. then think “oo just add an allied contingent of X” and it goes downhill from there
I’m currently on 4…. had I stuck to one legion I’d have a 25k army+Titans/Knights….
My advice, pick the fluff you enjoy the most and go with that
Great show, been waiting for more Horus Heresy stuff and thi snow give sme some motivation to keep going on my own project.
i have also been undecided on which Legion to start with and have been painting up some test squads to see how the paint schemes work out.
The choices are:
Sons of Horus
Iron Warriors
Night Lords
Alpha Legion
I will post them on a thread so look out.
Starting my journey I’ve got one of each box and doing Space Wolves. Just rounding up some Wolfe bits to add to my troops.
Now you’ve got me thinking about buying some 30K Space Marines, the first time I thought about buying some in 25 years! Damn you Warren and AJ!
I couldn’t help myself and have been painting up a white scar legion myself. Got the Betrayal at Calth set almost completed now, and ordered bikes and a rhino from forgeworld. It was only a matter of time before the GW chip in our heads went off for Horus Heresy. 🙂
Still think I might do Loyal Emperor’s Children – Praetorian type Romans 🙂
Off-topic on Legionary table-top battles…
It would be cool to revamp Space Crusade for specialist trial-squads from different chapters. How else will you get Noise Marines or Ashen Circle in play? Swap out Chaos androids for Thallax and Gretchen for Tech-thralls 🙂
Okay so you said if someone can convince you other wise so I will attempt to do so!
I say you should make up a Dark Angel force
I will make an appeal to practicality, versatility, and fluff related reason, though each will have some cross over. But fluff is the big one!
Practicality
While Dark Angel colour scheme is that of black and I have bemoan how difficult it is to paint black really well. In order to create a great deal of black troops with a decent look what is required is a dry brush more than anything else. a couple of dark tinted greys and layers of dry brushing can get you amazing results, if done in the right way, which isn’t that hard.
Second you would only have to paint one scheme which means only one assembly line and only one way of figuring out how to do things. This means you won’t have to green stuff fur pelts you won’t have to find old tomb king, thousand son and other edge-gptian themed materials, so you save yourself on that front. With new and emerging news of cypher re-appearing there is a lot that can be do with 40k…
And finally last but not least, due to the nature of the Dark Angels you suddenly have a massive new 40k force, the fallen! A group of marines that easily slot as loyalist or rebel forces. Allowing for a lot of versatility as @warzan said… which leads to
Versatility
Unlike any force in the Imperial forces the Dark Angels can neatly line up on either side. The Dark Angels are a secretive and interesting force, the Battle for Caliban unlike any other had brother against brother not legion against legion. The Dark Angels come from a very interesting story line, they are as is said Dark Angel. They they did what was necessary sometimes they may have gone against loyal forces for a greater good, sometimes would have committed unspeakable acts in order to keep things in order. Which leads them to being on the some of the most interesting battles. Also they have one most interesting rivalries some of the other chapters. The lion is known to have fight Russ because of his foolishness yet he was so like his brother in accepting Horus as warmaster, he cynical and stoic. He fought against the Night Lords, agents of terror, Assassins against the Knights Templar I think someone made a game out of that concept…
Which leads me to the fluff…
Fluff!
First off the name of the Dark Angels and their Primarch comes from the poem
The Dark Angel by Lionel Johnson
https://youtu.be/fwP77n_fkMQ
Listen to it, and tell me you can’t feel a subtle darkness which cloaks a noble soul.
Here is but an exert
The second Death, that never dies,
That cannot die, when time is dead:
Live Death, wherein the lost soul cries,
Eternally uncomforted.
If passion cannot reach you in those words, your soul is dead, the darkness seeped in already.
But I realise how far this has gone already so I will not continue to much further. I will simplify why the tragic story of the Dark Angles is the one that is the one that is the centre of all of it.
The lions story is one of juxtapositioning and complexity.
Named the first among the legions and left barely noticed.
He touches almost every story, but only impacts few.
He both Devil and Angel, all it takes is change of point of view.
However there is but one thing that sells his story stronger than anything I could say.
His is the story of Son betrayed by a father, his real father, treats him with disinterest and cynicism, where as his true father his adopted father, Luther (and that name was no mistake), betrayed him because his only son, betrayed him.
This story can only be described in one way…
Biblical
If that can’t sell the Dark Angels, I am not sure what can.
Anyway!
Good Luck with the project I will be waiting with baited breath 😀
The story is truely epic….
But I fear for John’s Sanity with the scale of this project, and I think the conversion work and painting black may knock him over the edge! 🙂
Might have to look at a contingent of the Dark Angels myself though for 30k. I have a small Guardians of the Covenant force which I used as an ally to my Guard, and the old secret war missions where great in 3rd edition 40k.
Better than a million wolf pelts, I don’t think the dark angels would require any converting would they?
…and the Fallen might be returning to 40K
Heresy Dark Angles still confuse me as much as Alpha Legion 🙁
How well do the 40k chapter specific wolf-pelts/monk robes fit on the 30k kits?
I was doing really well with holding back on buying minis this year until this video came along. Now I have 30 tactical marines, 10 terminators, a contemptor and a couple of characters in the post! Thanks a bunch 😀
I’ve also ordered Horus Rising to get some inspiration for what legion I should choose. What are the other ‘must-have’ HH novels?
I only read the first 4 but they work really well as a series. Can’t speak for the others but I enjoyed the ones I did read.
For me, my favourite so far was either Legion or Flight of the Eisenstein, but honestly I don’t think I have disliked any of the novels in the series. I still have a long way to go with the reading (I got a Kindle for Christmas, so the pace has been improved), but It is a brilliant series with so much of the true background to why the 41st millennium is so grim dark.
I just started my own Alpha Legio Force. I just love the theme of secrecy first, but then the brutal force of a combinded Space Marine Legion
The Emperor was upset that the Word Bearers were slow but he was also really upset that they were teaching people that the Emperor was a god and since the emperor’s big thing was the Imperial Truth, that there are no gods and religion should be wiped from the universe as its a tool of chaos. The word Bearers built a city called Monarchia as a dedication to the Emperors divinity and it essentially represented all the Word Bearers stood for but when the emperor decided to punish and bring the Word Bearers in line The Ultramarines were ordered to destroy it, then the Word Bearers were made to kneel in its ashes to the Emperor and the Ultramarines and re-affirm their vows to completing the great crusade. I can’t imagine a bigger slap in the face but being made to kneel in the ashes of what was in your mind your greatest accomplishment and since it was the Ultramarines who did it their has been alot of animosity.
About the Thosand Sons and the Librarius. It was called the Council of Nikea and it was more of a trial on whether they should continue the use of Librarians. Leman Russ was butt hurt that in a little argument with Magnus and his boys they put a whooping on some of his men using their powers when the were fighting on a planet together. It started from when Puppies found and wanted to destroy a Library and Thousand Sons wanted to study it first. Leman ran and told daddy but also Mortarion didn’t like Psykers either so they held this trial. Its a long story and I won’t get into it but it was a sham, the decision had been made before hand. Of the 3 Primarchs that created the Librarius only Magnus was there and he wasn’t told what was going on till he arrived. Also for even tho the Librarians were ordered to be returned to their regular units and not to use psychic powers Russ’s so called Wolf Priests were allowed to continue to use their powers because they said their psychic power comes from Fenris not the Warp, absolute rubbish and hypocrisy! Sorry, you can probably tell what side I’m on. One little note, after Horus’s treachery it didn’t take long for most of the other Loyal legions to throw out the verdict and start using librarians again but the wolves destroyed Prospero and murdered millions on innocents for the same reason. They claim to have been tricked by Horus but all he did is give them an excuse do what they wanted to all along. Ignorant Mutts!
As to the Emperors Webway its all in the Book Master of Mankind. He was using the Eldar webway tho technically it wasn’t theirs either. Magnus ripped a hole in the webway which allowed daemons to enter that and in the webway there was a path to the Emperors throne room but since this was his great work he didn’t want to close it.Thats why the Custodes and Silent sisters were fighting there but he ends up giving up and closing it to protect Terra when they are pushed all the way back to the gate. According to that book atleast that way to Terra is closed. Something may change latter on as maybe someone takes up the Empereors desire after the Heresy and fighting starts there again but for awhile the battle in the bowels of the imperial palace has ended.
I can’t wait to see what you guys do. If it wasn’t Obvious I’m doing Thousand Sons and plan to do Luthers Dark Angels later on down the line when they get more rules.
Space Wolves’ Rune Priests are their equivalent to Librarians- Wolf Priests are their version of Chaplains. The difference between Rune Priests and psykers is that Rune Priests use entirely-wholesome ‘Earth Magic’ as opposed to filthy warp-based powers. It’s all totally legit, heretic 😉
Love that this is a focus for season 2. I’m at the fourth book in the Horus Heresy and loving it so far. Can’t wait for more. And curious to see what you guys do with the box sets. I’ve thought about purchasing them so this may get me to bite.
This is going to be awesome.
Do darkangels Warren !!!